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Blades, Bows and Tools Discussion of non-firearm weapons and camping/survival tools. |
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#41
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God Bless, David |
#42
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So far as state law is concerned (and avoiding schools and other restricted areas) that should be OK.
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ARCHIVED Calguns Foundation Wiki here: http://web.archive.org/web/201908310...itle=Main_Page "The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane."Ann Althouse: “Begin with the hypothesis that what they did is what they wanted to do. If they postured that they wanted to do something else, regard that as a con. Work from there. The world will make much more sense.” Not a lawyer, just Some Guy On The Interwebs. |
#44
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Regarding CA PC sec. 21510 pertaining to “Switchblades”, (c) notes “transfers” as a violation, my question is:
* If I legally purchase a switchblade knife in Oregon and bring it back to my home in California locked in the trunk of my vehicle have I violated this law? Has the Oregon seller violated this law? A reply with knowledgeable opinion would be appreciated. Here’s PC sec. 21510 from the link on page 1, post 1, https://law.onecle.com/california/penal/21510.html Last edited by MeatyMac; 10-13-2018 at 10:13 AM.. |
#45
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I don't see how an Oregon seller, doing business in Oregon (and not, for example, an internet sale) would be bound by CA law. 21510 does not ban import, and your proposed method of transport does not violate (a), so it seems you would also be in the clear. I'm sure a motivated, inventive DA could find a reason to charge you under those circumstances, but actually obeying statute law is ordinarily a pretty good defense.
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ARCHIVED Calguns Foundation Wiki here: http://web.archive.org/web/201908310...itle=Main_Page "The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane."Ann Althouse: “Begin with the hypothesis that what they did is what they wanted to do. If they postured that they wanted to do something else, regard that as a con. Work from there. The world will make much more sense.” Not a lawyer, just Some Guy On The Interwebs. |
#46
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Could a person in California sell a balisong to an out-of-state buyer, through an internet forum for instance?
Or would it actually be necessary for him to drive the knives out of CA before offering them for sale?
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"Self defense is not a fashion show. A defensive handgun is not a little black dress, or a purse." Remember, the overwhelming majority of anti-gun thinkers are not stupid enough to be "afraid of guns." They are afraid of stupid/immature/crazy psycho people with guns. And as always, being friendly, courteous, and respectful is the easiest way to bend people to your will. |
#47
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Quote:
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ARCHIVED Calguns Foundation Wiki here: http://web.archive.org/web/201908310...itle=Main_Page "The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane."Ann Althouse: “Begin with the hypothesis that what they did is what they wanted to do. If they postured that they wanted to do something else, regard that as a con. Work from there. The world will make much more sense.” Not a lawyer, just Some Guy On The Interwebs. |
#48
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Just recovered a link from long ago (2002) - http://www.ninehundred.com/~equalccw/knifelaw.html
Jim March was how I found Calguns. This thread is a less-entertainingly-written version of his old post.
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ARCHIVED Calguns Foundation Wiki here: http://web.archive.org/web/201908310...itle=Main_Page "The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane."Ann Althouse: “Begin with the hypothesis that what they did is what they wanted to do. If they postured that they wanted to do something else, regard that as a con. Work from there. The world will make much more sense.” Not a lawyer, just Some Guy On The Interwebs. |
#49
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I can guess the answer already however I thought I would ask you as you are more knowledgeable about California knife laws by far than I am and before I pay money to an attorney to answer the question. I also know each municipality, city, and county has separate ordnances governing the carrying of knives in addition to the State Laws but I am just asking a general in California State law question. That all said. Do you think it legal under California state law to carry a Spyderco Ronin 2 fixed blade openly on your belt (blade length is 4.08") for civilians? Thanks!
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#50
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No 'official' way to measure. And it mostly does not matter, but of course does in LA city/county, as you mention. I think I'd rely on the manufacturer's description.
__________________
ARCHIVED Calguns Foundation Wiki here: http://web.archive.org/web/201908310...itle=Main_Page "The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane."Ann Althouse: “Begin with the hypothesis that what they did is what they wanted to do. If they postured that they wanted to do something else, regard that as a con. Work from there. The world will make much more sense.” Not a lawyer, just Some Guy On The Interwebs. |
#51
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And, whether it gets to an arrest, such that charges may be laid, seems often to be related to failing the 'attitude test' with LE.
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ARCHIVED Calguns Foundation Wiki here: http://web.archive.org/web/201908310...itle=Main_Page "The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane."Ann Althouse: “Begin with the hypothesis that what they did is what they wanted to do. If they postured that they wanted to do something else, regard that as a con. Work from there. The world will make much more sense.” Not a lawyer, just Some Guy On The Interwebs. |
#52
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SOR XR Question
I have been looking at a few SOG folders that are being sold at REI, Dicks Sporting Goods, and several other stores in Los Angeles lately. They are all Assisted Opening, and the blade locks in position when fully extended. My question relates to what SOG calls the XR lock.
I understand how the XR mechanism locks the blade open, however, when you watch video reviews of these various folders it appears as though you could take the knife while in the folded position and push the XR levers down. Most of the videos show that with the XR bars pushed dow, the blade can drop from the body of the knife and with a strong snap of the wrist locks into position. Isn't this the same as ..released by the weight of the blade or by any type of mechanism whatsoever.. verbiage in the switchblade definition? They look nice and I can't believe so many large chains would be selling them locally if there was an issue. Am I missing something here in the definition? |
#53
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Hmm - Quote:
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ARCHIVED Calguns Foundation Wiki here: http://web.archive.org/web/201908310...itle=Main_Page "The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane."Ann Althouse: “Begin with the hypothesis that what they did is what they wanted to do. If they postured that they wanted to do something else, regard that as a con. Work from there. The world will make much more sense.” Not a lawyer, just Some Guy On The Interwebs. |
#55
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LA City Question
OK, I see the muni section regarding no open carrying of any knife in a pouch with a blade of 3 inches or more. The question is can you carry a regular old style folded pocket knife (not a switchblade) with a 3 inch or longer blade if it is completely concealed within a pocket or purse?
The reason I ask is there is another muni section (I think 55.01) that says anyone wanting to carry a concealed weapon must have a permit from the city. I don't know if this section only applies to firearms or everything else. It would seem that if it applies to everything, that everyone with pepper spray in their purse or pocket would need to follow the Muni section and get a permit. And what do they mean by weapon in this muni section? The knife that I would carry would be used as a tool to open packages, letters etc. and complete woodworking projects. These sections are very vague. |
#56
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55.01 seems to apply to firearms -
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The usual followup is 'is a knife carried with its clip exposed concealed or open?' and I have no way to tell; a LEO who sees the clip might think it would be 'exposed/open'.
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ARCHIVED Calguns Foundation Wiki here: http://web.archive.org/web/201908310...itle=Main_Page "The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane."Ann Althouse: “Begin with the hypothesis that what they did is what they wanted to do. If they postured that they wanted to do something else, regard that as a con. Work from there. The world will make much more sense.” Not a lawyer, just Some Guy On The Interwebs. |
#57
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So it sounds like it would be legal in LA to carry a Leatherman multitool that has a knife blade (folded) among it's many tools in it's collapsed state, or a folded pocket knife if either are carried completely concealed within a purse or pocket with no clip exposed.
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#58
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City of Glendale CA Bold is my doing. As I read this they don't distinguish between types of knives, folder or fixed. When they say "plain view" I'm assuming that means open carry. I take this to mean you can't open carry a 3" fixed blade. You can carry a concealed folder that is otherwise legal in the state.
- http://www.qcode.us/codes/glendale/?...-9_24-9_24_050 Quote:
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NRA Benefactor CRPA Life Member GOA Member |
#59
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there was a conversation on Calguns recently where the parties were convinced fixed blade in glove box or otherwise not in plain view in CA was "concealed" (so need to switch to folding knives).
I'll try to find it. But from THIS thread I'm understanding fixed blade knives are perfectly OK in car concealed or not, correct? Ok to carry Bowie knife in car door side pocket or under seat? Also, how much needs to be showing to not be considered "concealed on person"? What if the sheath if stuffed into a pouch on backpack shoulder strap and the belt loop is preventing 80+ of the handle from being viewed from head on? (asking for a friend) What about a Mora knife clipped in cargo pants with less than 1/2 the handle showing? |
#60
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HOLY CRAP! PINKIE PIE IS BACK! WELCOME BACK SIR. Your melt down thread where you called out the head janitor was epic. Thanks Librarian. I really was in the dark about all of the laws on knives in California.
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Last edited by Sir Toast; 09-18-2021 at 12:04 PM.. |
#61
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Kindly read all of the first couple posts. No definition for 'concealed' - will depend on LE at the time.
__________________
ARCHIVED Calguns Foundation Wiki here: http://web.archive.org/web/201908310...itle=Main_Page "The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane."Ann Althouse: “Begin with the hypothesis that what they did is what they wanted to do. If they postured that they wanted to do something else, regard that as a con. Work from there. The world will make much more sense.” Not a lawyer, just Some Guy On The Interwebs. |
#64
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2 - felony, as outlined in the first post in this thread . - that's two members in the last few days who have asked questions answered in that first post.
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ARCHIVED Calguns Foundation Wiki here: http://web.archive.org/web/201908310...itle=Main_Page "The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane."Ann Althouse: “Begin with the hypothesis that what they did is what they wanted to do. If they postured that they wanted to do something else, regard that as a con. Work from there. The world will make much more sense.” Not a lawyer, just Some Guy On The Interwebs. |
#65
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Could Or should??
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Should you carry / keep a fixed blade next to the driver? I've been stopped enough times and never failed the criminal profile test. I always have a pocket knife- a folder clipped to my pant pocket... wearing a suit- yes the knife is there too. Police have never worried about my pocket knife nor OC spray in door pockets. Should an officer see a KBar handle under the dash, it might make them criminally profile me and wonder why I have a K Bar under my dash... I want the officer to know I'm basically law abiding and maybe I was driving safely above 50 mph. I don't want them to think I'm sketchy as hell as I have a K bar. I don't want to get asked out of the car I don't want to be terry frisked I don't want to be cuffed and set on the curb or back of a car I don't need my car to be searched as they have PC for the K Bar Now 45 minutes have passed.... now they get to decide their next step 1- place knife in my trunk and give me a warning 2- give me a misdemeanor cite and a court date - knife taken as evidence 3- knife realized to be OK and I get a apology for being taken out of the car and a warning for whatever PC for the initial stop. I can think of a lot of tools that can be in my car that might be as effective as a knife but not make me seem like a questionable person who should be criminally profiled.
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Rule 1- ALL GUNS ARE ALWAYS LOADED Rule 2 -NEVER LET THE MUZZLE COVER ANYTHING YOU ARE NOT PREPARED TO DESTROY (including your hands and legs) Rule 3 -KEEP YOUR FINGER OFF THE TRIGGER UNTIL YOUR SIGHTS ARE ON THE TARGET Rule 4 -BE SURE OF YOUR TARGET AND WHAT IS BEYOND IT (thanks to Jeff Cooper) |
#66
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When it comes to manual-opening folding knives, California has no legal limit on blade length, so long as the knife is carried folded-up and not locked open. At least that's what a bunch of layers' websites claim -- I can't find a copy of the actual penal code online.
My local city penal code says this: 9.16.010(B) Dangerous and deadly weapons—Defined "The term “dangerous and deadly weapon” as used in this chapter shall also include, but not be limited to: 1. Any knife having a blade of three inches or more in length;" 9.16.020 Dangerous and deadly weapons—Discharge or carrying prohibited. B. "Except as expressly permitted by state or federal law, it is unlawful for any person to carry upon his or her person or to have in his or her possession or under his or her control in any public place within the city any dangerous weapon specified in Section 9.16.010(B);" So the $10.00 question is does California expressly permit the carrying of any sized folder so long as it's folded-up when being carried? I can't find the exact penal code on line. All I can find is a bunch of lawyers' websites claiming that any length folding knife may be legally carried in California so long as it's closed. Thanks for any help. |
#67
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Other than the limits noted in the first post in this thread, state law is silent on lengths. ETA I've spent a lot of time in SLO - wife is from there - and there are plenty of cowboys and farmers in town with folders clipped into pockets. I've carried mine for over 20 years. SLOPD, wisely, has better things to do than worry about those. ------ ETA - late, I'm afraid. Apologies. 'Expressly' permit the carrying of any sized folder - no; but the only general length description is for switchblades; if a thing is not discussed in statutes, it's usually legal until that happens. Remember, statute law almost always limits itself to 1) what you MUST do and 2) what you MUST NOT do; laws ordinarily ignore what you MAY do. No general law allows wearing shoes or eating lunch. California statutes are on-line here : http://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes.xhtml
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ARCHIVED Calguns Foundation Wiki here: http://web.archive.org/web/201908310...itle=Main_Page "The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane."Ann Althouse: “Begin with the hypothesis that what they did is what they wanted to do. If they postured that they wanted to do something else, regard that as a con. Work from there. The world will make much more sense.” Not a lawyer, just Some Guy On The Interwebs. Last edited by Librarian; 01-29-2022 at 1:48 PM.. |
#68
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Just a reminder:
the first two posts in this thread have nearly all the useful info on CA knife laws. Read those and you'll usually find your answer - that's why those posts exist.
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ARCHIVED Calguns Foundation Wiki here: http://web.archive.org/web/201908310...itle=Main_Page "The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane."Ann Althouse: “Begin with the hypothesis that what they did is what they wanted to do. If they postured that they wanted to do something else, regard that as a con. Work from there. The world will make much more sense.” Not a lawyer, just Some Guy On The Interwebs. |
#69
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I recently have been getting into fixed blades, and carrying them. So I want to revisit some specifics of the law.
I know there is no actual legal definition of "concealed" and thus we are at the mercy of LEO and DAs. However, does anyone know of any cases that deal with this at all? There is of course one legal definition of what is NOT concealed. And it is not included in the first post in this thread. So here it is: Quote:
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#70
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So I'm a bit confused here. Is a locking knife like a Spyderco or a Benchmade considered a dirk or dagger when opened and the lock engaged?
Is that something you can legally carry in your pocket? Or is there a blade length that beyond that becomes illegal? |
#71
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See the first post.
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ARCHIVED Calguns Foundation Wiki here: http://web.archive.org/web/201908310...itle=Main_Page "The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane."Ann Althouse: “Begin with the hypothesis that what they did is what they wanted to do. If they postured that they wanted to do something else, regard that as a con. Work from there. The world will make much more sense.” Not a lawyer, just Some Guy On The Interwebs. Last edited by Librarian; 01-29-2022 at 1:29 PM.. |
#73
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I guess there is no answer for this, other than, "there is no legal definition of "concealed"". And YMMV with LEO.
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#74
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The XR lock in post #53 is just another form of AXIS lock (expired patent held by Benchmade). An AXIS lock provides the tendency for the blade to stay closed.
If you disengage the AXIS lock, you can flick the blade open with zero resistance. Mechanically, such an action is the same as a "gravity knife" in the definitions of the law. I speculate that the addition of a thumb-stud, Spydie hole, fuller, or backside flipper directly on the blade shows the intent that force shall be provide "directly on to the blade" in order to open the knife (as a defacto means of opening), making the intended use of the knife legal. I'm interested in the currently popular, "button lock" style of knives, but I am not certain they will be viewed as California legal. This one has a flipper. https://amzn.to/3oLvBb6 This one has NO way to put pressure on the blade to open it. I guess you press the button and flick your wrist, making it a "gravity knife" https://amzn.to/3sJiiZE
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Guns don't kill people, NINJAS kill people.
Last edited by Laetum; 02-14-2022 at 8:00 PM.. Reason: Added video of "gravity knife" action of opening |
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