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  #1  
Old 09-07-2019, 3:25 AM
Twistid Twistid is offline
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Default Military PCSing to Ca, never lived there before, what can/should I bring?

Up front - I have a small 30-40 gun collection (pistols, AK,. AR, carbines, shotguns, ect..), hundreds of "high capacity" mags, and lots of ammo. I want to take as much as possible while staying legal and reducing the burden of family having to hold my weapons until I leave.

It's my current understanding as AD mil I can bring in any and all pistols as long as they do not have a threaded barrel installed, BUT I cannot bring 11+ round mags. For example Glock 19.5, CZ 75 clones, Sig 220 226 229, ect...

Are shotguns fair game, it's a little difficult to find information on tube fed shotguns legality. I have a 590A1 and one of those Remington 870 "Ohio National Guard" folding stock shotguns. Both have bayonet lugs so I assume they are assault rifles?

Additionally I do not need to "register" them as I am not going to become a resident of California (I will keep Florida as my state of record and pay no income tax). My question is, if I bring in these pistols, "unregistered", could I eventually legally sell them when I get bored and want something new? I want to emphasize I do not intend to break any laws, but I also don't want to give up my 2A rights and possessions if I don't have to.

Last edited by Twistid; 09-07-2019 at 3:56 AM..
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  #2  
Old 09-07-2019, 5:25 AM
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Quiet Quiet is offline
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All firearms you bring to CA must be CA legal.

CA legal means it is not considered an assault weapon or generally prohibited weapon (DD/MG/SBR/SBS/silencer) under CA laws.

CA assault weapons laws applies to semi-auto centerfire rifles, semi-auto pistols, and semi-auto shotguns.

CA SBR laws applies to all rifles that have a barrel length of less than 16" or have an overall length of less than 26".

CA SBS laws applies to all firearms that can discharge a shotgun shell and has a barrel length of less than 18" or an overall length of less than 26".
^This applies to handguns that can shoot shotgun shells. (e.g. S&W Governor, Taurus Judge)

CA measures the firearm in the shortest possible firing configuration (stock folded/collapsed).

Bayonets and bayonet lugs are 100% CA legal on any type of firearm.

It is illegal to bring any large capacity (11+ round) magazine to CA.
^Exemptions for fixed tubular magazines on .22 caliber firearms and for fixed tubular magazines on lever-action firearms.
Since you are active duty military, there is an exemption for the magazines that are issued to you. Since legally you do not own them, the Military owns them and they are exempt.

Active duty military with permanent orders for CA are exempt from the requirement to register firearms they have brought to CA. [PC 17000(b)(2)]
This exemption ends when they are no longer active duty or they are no longer have orders for CA.
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Last edited by Quiet; 09-07-2019 at 5:27 AM..
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  #3  
Old 09-07-2019, 5:33 AM
Twistid Twistid is offline
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Thank you Quiet, does that mean all rimfire rifles are safe (pistol grip, threaded) as long as you keep magazine capacity below 11.

Additionally, once I bring these weapons with be, can I sell them legally in state since they were never registered?
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  #4  
Old 09-07-2019, 5:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Twistid View Post
Thank you Quiet, does that mean all rimfire rifles are safe (pistol grip, threaded) as long as you keep magazine capacity below 11.
For rimfire rifles...

Minimum barrel length = 16"
Minimum overall length = 26"
^Overall length measured with stock folded/collapsed.

Can legally have any features (pistol grip, folding/collapsing stock, flash suppressor, forward pistol grip).

If it uses detachable magazines, then magazines need to be 10 or less rounds.
If it is .22 caliber and uses a fixed tubular magazine, then no capacity limit on the magazine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Twistid View Post
Additionally, once I bring these weapons with be, can I sell them legally in state since they were never registered?
Yes, you can sell your firearms once you move to CA.

With a few exemptions, all firearm transfers must be done through a CA FFL dealer.

As the seller, you will need to show your valid Mil ID and a copy of your permanent duty station orders for CA.
^You will be "registered" as the previous owner of the firearm during the transfer process.

As a non-FFL seller, you are limited to the amount of transaction you can legally do in a calendar year.
~Long guns need to be sold occasionally and without regularity.
~Handguns are limited to five transactions. A single transaction can be for multiple handguns.
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Last edited by Quiet; 09-07-2019 at 5:58 AM..
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  #5  
Old 09-07-2019, 6:16 AM
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Note that for handguns being imported into CA...

If you are bringing the handguns into CA with the intent to keep them, then you are considered a personal firearm importer and the handguns are exempt from needing to be listed on the Roster of Handguns Certified for Sale. [PC 17000(a)(7)]

If you are bringing the handguns into CA with the intent to sell them once you move to CA, then you are not considered a personal firearm importer and the handguns need to be listed on the Roster of Handguns Certified for Sale or be exempt from them (C&R, OTP, SAE, SSE2). [PC 32000(a)]


Posting WTS/WTB ads and/or communicating/arraigning sales, prior to moving to CA, is establishing an intent to sell.
^Don't do this, especially on a forum that is routinely monitored by Federal and local LE agencies.
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Last edited by Quiet; 09-07-2019 at 6:19 AM..
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  #6  
Old 09-07-2019, 7:17 AM
CAL.BAR CAL.BAR is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Twistid View Post
Up front - I have a small 30-40 gun collection (pistols, AK,. AR, carbines, shotguns, ect..), hundreds of "high capacity" mags, and lots of ammo. I want to take as much as possible while staying legal and reducing the burden of family having to hold my weapons until I leave.

It's my current understanding as AD mil I can bring in any and all pistols as long as they do not have a threaded barrel installed, BUT I cannot bring 11+ round mags. For example Glock 19.5, CZ 75 clones, Sig 220 226 229, ect...

Are shotguns fair game, it's a little difficult to find information on tube fed shotguns legality. I have a 590A1 and one of those Remington 870 "Ohio National Guard" folding stock shotguns. Both have bayonet lugs so I assume they are assault rifles?

Additionally I do not need to "register" them as I am not going to become a resident of California (I will keep Florida as my state of record and pay no income tax). My question is, if I bring in these pistols, "unregistered", could I eventually legally sell them when I get bored and want something new? I want to emphasize I do not intend to break any laws, but I also don't want to give up my 2A rights and possessions if I don't have to.

Look, as posted above, in coming to CA, you WILL be giving up a HUGE part of your 2A rights. Just a fact. CA firearms laws are VERY complicated and you are (potentially) attempting to bring in loads of guns which you have not had to deal with CA law on. This is a recipe for disaster. Can it be done? Maybe. Should it be done? (NO IMHO)

If you are active military and stationed here, you aren't going too much time to shoot all those guns anyway. If you won't be that long (i.e. going to be re-assigned) store them in FL or where ever until you settle down.

If you're hell bent on bringing the whole collection, you will want to sit down with a firearms atty and look at EACH and EVERY gun to see in which way it may be illegal and how to configure it.

Are you really going to want to go out and by new 10 rd. mags for all your pistols and rifles? Or block the ones you already have?

Remember, as posted already, we have THREE different classes of AW's in CA, each a bit different, and NO way to tell just by looking at the gun if it's legal. Please be careful. PM me for more information if necessary.
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  #7  
Old 09-07-2019, 10:29 AM
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In addition to the comprehensive postings from Quiet, you should also be aware of the California "Military Assault Weapons Permit."

This permit allows you to bring in your "Assault Weapons" while stationed in California on active duty orders. Here is a link to the application: https://oag.ca.gov/sites/all/files/a...ms/mawpapp.pdf

But please note that such permits are kinda like unicorns. I don't know of anyone who has successfully obtained one.

The requirements are onerous. The application must be signed by your "Base Commander" (as opposed to a unit commander) and must certify that your personally owned Assault Weapon is required for use in "military sanctioned activities." Under the DoD consolidation efforts of the past 20 years, most "Base Commanders" are Captains and Rear Admirals (or Colonels and Brigadier Generals if you scored low on the ASVAB). They got legal staffs that are gonna review your application and advise their boss regarding the wisdom of signing a letter indicating that your personal firearm is required for your military activities.

Oh, and you gotta re-apply, and get all of the signatures, every year in order to renew the permit.

Thanks for your service, enjoy your tour here. We do have some really good facilities, and so long as you're not headed to Ft. Irwin or Twenty-Nine Palms, there's a lot to do when off-duty.
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  #8  
Old 09-22-2019, 7:12 AM
Twistid Twistid is offline
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Default Neutering my firearm collection to bring them with me to California, sanity check?

I believe I have wrapped my head around how to bring my firearm collection with me on a PCS to California.
  1. All of my AR-15s (pistol gripped, no mag lock, full "scary rifle") - I must separate the Upper Receiver from the Lower Receiver and NEVER combine them while I am stationed in California, per 11 CCR § 5471 hh.3, "(3) With regards to an AR-15 style firearm, if a complete upper receiver and a complete lower receiver are completely detached from one another, but still in the possession or under the custody or control of the same person, the firearm is not a semiautomatic firearm."
  2. All of my pistols are fine as long as they have no threaded barrels
  3. All of my shotguns are fine as they are NOT semi-auto (they are pump action)

My last action item is my AK collection ( https://i.redd.it/36z5dfeco5o31.jpg ) I understand I have to make them featureless, ALL will require fin-grips and removal of flashhiders. Luckily my Vepr 74 should be good to go with only a fin-grip, next is my WASR10 which only requires a non-dong forward grip and fin-grip. Finally, my Galil Ace, Saiga, and Vepr47 will require fin-grips and non-folding stocks.

I believe once my AK's have been neutered I should be good to go to bring all my firearms with me. I will just have to store my 11+ round mags out of state for the duration of my time in Cali.



EDIT:::

It looks like if I simply install this super cheap "bullet button" it will solve my neutering problem and I don't have to spend a bunch of money on grips/stocks? Following the Calguns Flowchart (https://www.calguns.net/caawid/flowchart.pdf) it looks like this will solve the problem!
https://otsupplier.com/AK-47-Magazine-Lock

Last edited by Twistid; 09-22-2019 at 10:53 AM.. Reason: Added another option
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  #9  
Old 09-22-2019, 8:06 AM
CAL.BAR CAL.BAR is offline
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As far as your firearms go, it seems you have a good handle on it. As for your reason for (and apparent intent to benefit from) a move to CA, a great many of us would try to set you straight on that. But THAT is a different topic for a different post.
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  #10  
Old 09-22-2019, 9:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CAL.BAR View Post
As far as your firearms go, it seems you have a good handle on it. As for your reason for (and apparent intent to benefit from) a move to CA, a great many of us would try to set you straight on that. But THAT is a different topic for a different post.
You missed
Quote:
on a PCS to California
PCS = Permanent Change of Station, that is the OP is in the military and his Uncle has decided California is the place to be.
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  #11  
Old 09-22-2019, 9:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Twistid View Post
I believe I have wrapped my head around how to bring my firearm collection with me on a PCS to California.
  1. All of my AR-15s (pistol gripped, no mag lock, full "scary rifle") - I must separate the Upper Receiver from the Lower Receiver and NEVER combine them while I am stationed in California, per 11 CCR § 5471 hh.3, "(3) With regards to an AR-15 style firearm, if a complete upper receiver and a complete lower receiver are completely detached from one another, but still in the possession or under the custody or control of the same person, the firearm is not a semiautomatic firearm."
  2. All of my pistols are fine as long as they have no threaded barrels
  3. All of my shotguns are fine as they are NOT semi-auto (they are pump action)

My last action item is my AK collection ( https://i.redd.it/36z5dfeco5o31.jpg ) I understand I have to make them featureless, ALL will require fin-grips and removal of flashhiders. Luckily my Vepr 74 should be good to go with only a fin-grip, next is my WASR10 which only requires a non-dong forward grip and fin-grip. Finally, my Galil Ace, Saiga, and Vepr47 will require fin-grips and non-folding stocks.

I believe once my AK's have been neutered I should be good to go to bring all my firearms with me. I will just have to store my 11+ round mags out of state for the duration of my time in Cali.
You're almost OK here. The above strategy assumes that your AK's and AR's are the "Evil by Feature" kind of Assault Weapons (Penal Code section 30515). The above ain't gonna work if any of your weapons fall under the "Evil by Name" definition of Assault Weapons (Penal Code section 30510(a)) or the "Evil Because the Judge Said So" definition of Assault Weapons (Penal Code section 30510(d)) (and keeping in mind that subsequent court action has pretty much eviscerated PC 30510(d)).

You should also be aware of the notional potential for you to receive a "Military Assault Weapons Permit" that would allow you to keep your Assault Weapons in their original configuration while stationed in California, and to shoot then on legit ranges. I qualify with the word "notional" because the permits are procedurally difficult to obtain.
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Old 09-22-2019, 9:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RickD427 View Post
Military members don't get a choice.......
Point taken... Thanks for your sacrifice and service...
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Old 09-22-2019, 10:54 AM
Twistid Twistid is offline
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Thanks for the replies guys, I appreciate it.

While adding up my costs for new parts I found this "bullet button" https://otsupplier.com/AK-47-Magazine-Lock , if I just buy a few of these and install them on all my AK's it sounds like it will make them all compliant without having to install new fingrips/stocks/flashhider removal?
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Old 09-22-2019, 10:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Twistid View Post
Thanks for the replies guys, I appreciate it.

While adding up my costs for new parts I found this "bullet button" https://otsupplier.com/AK-47-Magazine-Lock , if I just buy a few of these and install them on all my AK's it sounds like it will make them all compliant without having to install new fingrips/stocks/flashhider removal?
Nope, that's not gonna work. The vendor of that product is "out-of-sync" with the current status of California law. Believing his advertising can you charged with a felony. Best to use the Penal Code as your source of information.
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Old 09-22-2019, 11:14 AM
Twistid Twistid is offline
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Ok so bullet button is now banned and has been replaced with fixed mag. Could I simply disassemble the AK's (remove bolt/spring) and store the bolts/springs separately from the rifles with the intention of never putting them together? That should still work similar to how you can disassemble an AR15 and its no longer considered an assault weapon?

Last edited by Twistid; 09-22-2019 at 11:19 AM..
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Old 09-22-2019, 11:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Twistid View Post
Ok so bullet button is now banned and has been replaced with fixed mag. Could I simply disassemble the AK's (remove bolt/spring) and store the bolts/springs separately from the rifles with the intention of never putting them together? That should still work similar to how you can disassemble an AR15 and its no longer considered an assault weapon?
Probably also a bad idea. The idea of separating the upper and lower of an AR-15 to defeat the application of California's AW has a basis in the California Code of Regulations holding that the separated components are not a "semi-automatic" and where the regulations cite to PC 30515 as the source law.

The problem in your case is that the CCR section doing this (11 CCR 5471(hh)(3)) specifically is limited to AR-15 platforms. There is no similar provision in the CCR's for AK platforms. You can "make-up" a personal opinion that it ought to be the same for AK weapons, but then you run the risk that your arresting officer and prosecutor may not share that opinion.

It sounds like you may be a "glutton for punishment" on this subject. I have to admire your service to our country, but I'm also starting to think that you're probably a Marine. If that's the case, why don't you try getting General Conley to sign off on your Military Assault Weapon Permit application?
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Last edited by RickD427; 09-22-2019 at 12:05 PM..
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