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  #121  
Old 12-14-2016, 6:35 PM
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Originally Posted by DumpyRocks View Post
Maybe I didn't search hard enough, but what if an ar-15 was built with a patriot mag release/ARMaglock and not a BB in 2016. Can this AR be registered still or is registration only open for rifles that have the BB installed prior to 1/1/17
Registration is for builds that meet the 2017 definition of "Assault Weapon" that were lawfully possessed between 2001 and the end of 2016.

Featureless, bare lowers, and fixed magazine (based on the 2017 definition) do not qualify.
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  #122  
Old 12-15-2016, 2:45 AM
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So if I use a stripped lower to build a new AR-15 with assault weapon features in December, 2016, but made it "featureless" before the end of 2017, would it have to be Registered as an Assault Weapon?
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  #123  
Old 12-15-2016, 4:11 AM
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Originally Posted by vmassarano View Post
So if I use a stripped lower to build a new AR-15 with assault weapon features in December, 2016, but made it "featureless" before the end of 2017, would it have to be Registered as an Assault Weapon?
Sorry. My previous post wasn't entirely correct. The answer is no. In 2017 if you have an AR with the evil features installed, you are required to register if you want to keep it. Even though you lawfully possessed it in 2016, it will become an Assault Weapon in 2017. HOWEVER if you convert it before 2017 to featureless OR if you install an updated bullet button (patriot) (armaglock) then you can keep it without registering. Again this needs to be done before 2017.

That being said, there is a lot of debating going on about this. So this is NOT legal advice. This is an opinion only.
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  #124  
Old 12-15-2016, 7:20 AM
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Originally Posted by meno377 View Post
Sorry. My previous post wasn't entirely correct. The answer is no. In 2017 if you have an AR with the evil features installed, you are required to register if you want to keep it. Even though you lawfully possessed it in 2016, it will become an Assault Weapon in 2017. HOWEVER if you convert it before 2017 to featureless OR if you install an updated bullet button (patriot) (armaglock) then you can keep it without registering. Again this needs to be done before 2017.

That being said, there is a lot of debating going on about this. So this is NOT legal advice. This is an opinion only.


All confusing as usual - let's play devil's advocate and say BB stays on after AW registration.... that would leave (3) options

1. Pay $20, register as AW and BB stays
2. Add maglock (or device that requires action disassembly) and all other features stay with no additional registration
3. Make gun featureless with no registration



Does this sound right?
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  #125  
Old 12-15-2016, 10:58 AM
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Originally Posted by iano1 View Post
All confusing as usual - let's play devil's advocate and say BB stays on after AW registration.... that would leave (3) options

1. Pay $20, register as AW and BB stays
2. Add maglock (or device that requires action disassembly) and all other features stay with no additional registration
3. Make gun featureless with no registration



Does this sound right?
Yes, except for the cost of registration. I think it's only $15. And once registered, you may be able to remove the bullet button, since it would constitute a registered assault weapon either way. The jury is still out on that, though.
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  #126  
Old 12-15-2016, 12:35 PM
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So it's safe to say we will never be allowed to put a .50 bmg barrel on say a barrett .416 even after we register it next year?
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  #127  
Old 12-15-2016, 2:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Neil McCauley View Post
So it's safe to say we will never be allowed to put a .50 bmg barrel on say a barrett .416 even after we register it next year?
From what I understand, that is correct. It doesn't matter if it's a .50 BMG upper for an AR or a .50 BMG barrel for an M-82; all .50 BMG conversions are verboten.
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  #128  
Old 12-15-2016, 3:36 PM
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So if I enter 2017 with an AR-15 that still has the evil features (let's say a pistol grip, for example), but also has a BB, how long into 2017 do I have before I have to register it as an AW?

Do I have register it by January 2 or March 31 or December 31?
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  #129  
Old 12-15-2016, 4:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vmassarano View Post
So if I enter 2017 with an AR-15 that still has the evil features (let's say a pistol grip, for example), but also has a BB, how long into 2017 do I have before I have to register it as an AW?

Do I have register it by January 2 or March 31 or December 31?

It has to be registered before January 1, 2018

Last edited by iano1; 12-15-2016 at 4:07 PM..
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  #130  
Old 12-15-2016, 5:16 PM
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So if I convert my evil-feature AR-15 to a featureless rifle by 12/30/2017, I don't need to register it - - right?
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  #131  
Old 12-15-2016, 5:50 PM
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Originally Posted by vmassarano View Post
So if I convert my evil-feature AR-15 to a featureless rifle by 12/30/2017, I don't need to register it - - right?
Right. And you can even have an extra day, if you want it.
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  #132  
Old 12-15-2016, 7:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Neil McCauley View Post
So it's safe to say we will never be allowed to put a .50 bmg barrel on say a barrett .416 even after we register it next year?
Absolutely not.

Just as the bullet button does not allow you to put a 50 on a 2016 build, and just as you can not have a bullet button build that is shorter than 30".

The ONLY thing that is changing is the definition of fixed/detachable magazine. The bullet button does not become an "evil feature".
The 50BMG ban is not addressed or altered by the new laws.
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Originally Posted by dantodd View Post
A just government will not be overthrown by force or violence because the people have no incentive to overthrow a just government. If a small minority of people attempt such an insurrection to grab power and enslave the people, the RKBA of the whole is our insurance against their success.
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  #133  
Old 12-18-2016, 8:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Librarian View Post
As usual, nobody knows for sure.

I have both; I'll use whatever I find convenient, unless some positive statement appears, to force only one choice.
My great concern here is that by possibly introducing a hard case requirement, you are slapping a giant sign on RAW owners that says "rob me," or "good stuff in this house, dear criminal." It seems like this de facto outlaws diversion bags. If the legislature really cared about reducing the number of stolen guns, they would allow for reasonable concealment during transport. This is beyond stupid as a purely practical matter. Our interests are aligned. Nobody wants to advertise "rob me." Nobody wants stolen guns in the hands of criminals.

One need only look to the recent spate of break-ins in the LA area for why it is plainly stupid to foist this requirement on lawful gun owners.
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  #134  
Old 12-20-2016, 2:41 PM
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So if you get a flat tire with RAWs or .50s in your car and have to stop to get it fixed, you're now a felon with a 4 year minimum sentence? Makes sense...
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  #135  
Old 12-20-2016, 3:30 PM
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Im trying to convince my son's martial arts instuctor to let me convert his AK and AR to featureless before the end of the year. He's the typical gun owner that is lost with all these new laws and has no clue what to do.

So, he says, well I have a year to register it, right? I tried to explain to him that on Jan 1 his guns will be considered assault rifles.. right? and that he can't take them out to the desert to shoot until he registers them.. right?

I don't see a grace period where you can continue to use them as before until you get around to registering them.

Is this right? They are pretty much in a grey area between Jan 1 and whenever you register them?

I want him to go featureless, but I want to give him the correct info. He's Korean (been here 20 years) and doesn't see any sense in these new laws.
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  #136  
Old 12-20-2016, 3:32 PM
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Originally Posted by iano1 View Post
It has to be registered before January 1, 2018
But can you take it out and shoot it between Jan 1 and the date it's officially registered as an AW?
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  #137  
Old 12-20-2016, 7:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Steve1968LS2 View Post
Im trying to convince my son's martial arts instuctor to let me convert his AK and AR to featureless before the end of the year. He's the typical gun owner that is lost with all these new laws and has no clue what to do.

So, he says, well I have a year to register it, right? I tried to explain to him that on Jan 1 his guns will be considered assault rifles.. right? and that he can't take them out to the desert to shoot until he registers them.. right?

I don't see a grace period where you can continue to use them as before until you get around to registering them.

Is this right? They are pretty much in a grey area between Jan 1 and whenever you register them?

I want him to go featureless, but I want to give him the correct info. He's Korean (been here 20 years) and doesn't see any sense in these new laws.
The law prohibits the possession of an assault weapon after 2017 unless one of a few exemptions are made.

1) It's registered.
2) It's within the year grace period between 1/1/17 and 12/31/17.
3) A bunch of other stuff like special weapons permits or for movies or whatever.

I know a lot of people on here think that it can't be transported because it's not registered or what not, but in my opinion I think that's not practical or even realistic. In reality the law is written to give people a year to comply and that would indicate to any judge jury or DA that you have all of 2017 to register your assault weapon. If they wanted to say "And you cannot use your firearm until you comply" they would have.

So in short, I'd tell him to keep shooting his BB rifle if he doesn't want to go featureless and register it by 2018.
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  #138  
Old 12-21-2016, 9:44 AM
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I'm a newbie to all this, I just purchase a stripped AR lower and a decent 5.56 rifle kit that has the pistol grip, flash arrest, and the whole nine-yard CA compliant stuff to build it out (assume BB) is in the kit. So if I build it out prior to 12/31/2016 and then register it (RAW) then what is the harm in doing so? I don't see by simply exchanging out the BB with an ARMaglok allows me to circumvent registration? Thanks ...this site is awesome!
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  #139  
Old 12-21-2016, 10:23 AM
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It's my understanding that if you build out the AR15 in 2016 with a pistol grip, flash hider and a bullet button, you have until the end of next year to register it as an Assault Weapon. And, if you convert it to a "featureless rifle" (i.e., lose the pistol grip and flash hider, then dump the BB) before 01/01/2018 you don't ever have to register it as an Assault Weapon.

I hope that's right because that's exactly what I'm doing with my new, just completed build.
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  #140  
Old 12-21-2016, 6:51 PM
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Originally Posted by bottomdweller View Post
then what is the harm in doing so?
Refer back to the first set of posts in this thread.

You can't carry it in your car unless going directly to/from home and some place to shoot it, you can only shoot it on property where you have permission and/or ranges. You can't lend even HAND it to someone unless you are at specific permitted locations... BLM is not one of those.
It can never be transferred to another California resident... EVER... even your son, and you can't even hand it to a minor so if your son is under 18 he can not shoot it anywhere in the state.


And you MUST build it out before Jan 1. Effective Jan 1, the bullet button does not exempt the rifle from AW laws and it is a felony to manufacture an AW.

Your options are:
Featureless
Fixed magazine such as the Franklin DFM
Patriot Button
Registration
Sell it out of state (through an FFL)
Turn it in to PD
Destroy it
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Originally Posted by dantodd View Post
A just government will not be overthrown by force or violence because the people have no incentive to overthrow a just government. If a small minority of people attempt such an insurrection to grab power and enslave the people, the RKBA of the whole is our insurance against their success.

Last edited by Cokebottle; 12-21-2016 at 6:54 PM..
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  #141  
Old 12-21-2016, 9:30 PM
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I have searched. I have read through threads. I apologize in advance if I missed something. I think I have this right but I need confirmation.

I have a stripped lower that I purchased and DROS'd in my name. I have subsequently built a complete rife on this platform. After Jan 1, 2017 I will only be able to register this under my name and not my spouses - correct?

If I want to register it under her name in 2017 then I would need to transfer ownership (through the DOJ) of the rifle to her in 2016 - correct?

Thanks in advance.
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  #142  
Old 12-21-2016, 9:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Flowjoe View Post
I have searched. I have read through threads. I apologize in advance if I missed something. I think I have this right but I need confirmation.

I have a stripped lower that I purchased and DROS'd in my name. I have subsequently built a complete rife on this platform. After Jan 1, 2017 I will only be able to register this under my name and not my spouses - correct?

If I want to register it under her name in 2017 then I would need to transfer ownership (through the DOJ) of the rifle to her in 2016 - correct?

Thanks in advance.
The previous bans did have a process to allow a RAW to be registered to multiple adults of the same residence.

It remains to be seen if that will be possible this time.
Most likely, we will find out after someone registers their rifle, then is accepted or rejected registering for their spouse.
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Originally Posted by dantodd View Post
A just government will not be overthrown by force or violence because the people have no incentive to overthrow a just government. If a small minority of people attempt such an insurrection to grab power and enslave the people, the RKBA of the whole is our insurance against their success.
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  #143  
Old 12-21-2016, 9:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cokebottle View Post
The previous bans did have a process to allow a RAW to be registered to multiple adults of the same residence.

It remains to be seen if that will be possible this time.
Most likely, we will find out after someone registers their rifle, then is accepted or rejected registering for their spouse.
Thanks for the reply.

It would seem that if I wait to find out if it is rejected then I would run the risk of not being able to register it in her name and subsequently having to be with her whenever she chooses to shoot this rifle. She really likes this rifle and would like to be able to take it to the range without me, say on the way home from work.

While there is a possibility of being able to register it in a spouses name during 2017 would it be a safer course of action to do the ownership change now to ensure the ability to register? The more I read and think this over the more I can't see a down side if the goal is to register it in her name. Or did I miss something?
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  #144  
Old 12-21-2016, 10:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Flowjoe View Post
Thanks for the reply.



It would seem that if I wait to find out if it is rejected then I would run the risk of not being able to register it in her name and subsequently having to be with her whenever she chooses to shoot this rifle. She really likes this rifle and would like to be able to take it to the range without me, say on the way home from work.



While there is a possibility of being able to register it in a spouses name during 2017 would it be a safer course of action to do the ownership change now to ensure the ability to register? The more I read and think this over the more I can't see a down side if the goal is to register it in her name. Or did I miss something?


Since you've missed today being the 10day transfer window for it to be 'delivered' in her name, no. Just wait and dual register it. If she takes delivery of it 1/1 she cannot register it and neither can you... if they didn't deny the transfer at all which is likely now.


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  #145  
Old 12-21-2016, 10:42 PM
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Originally Posted by lordmorgul View Post
Since you've missed today being the 10day transfer window for it to be 'delivered' in her name, no. Just wait and dual register it. If she takes delivery of it 1/1 she cannot register it and neither can you... if they didn't deny the transfer at all which is likely now.


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Because she is my spouse I thought I could just go up to the doj site and show the change of ownership as a gift. I thought I understood that spouses had that ability - or is that not the situation because it is an assault weapon? Isn't it as simple as showing the change of ownership through the, ah, crud, I can't recall the doj document name...

Edit: This is what I am referencing - http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=194339

And
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=849790

Last edited by Flowjoe; 12-21-2016 at 10:51 PM..
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  #146  
Old 12-21-2016, 10:48 PM
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Originally Posted by JohnnyMtn View Post
What if while on my way to the range I stop at the mini-mart along the way to pick up water? Am I then no longer going to the range while I am at the mini-mart?

And I know my question is in that gray area (or maybe not). I'm just trying to sort through all this stuff.
I think the reason for the rule re transporting only between certain locations is to reduce/prevent the possibility of theft. I'd say if going to the mini-mart just make sure that you are discreet and not get caught by LE. Should be easy enough, but I can see the reasoning behind those rules. After all, it's an 'assault wepon' and particularly if it has a mag release one doesn't really want it solen, would they? Of course, thieves could convert BB to a standard mag release anyway.

Whatever...they just don't want you stopping for chores, dining at restaurants, bars, stores, mini-marts, etc. and I can see the rationale.

What would be the penalty if caught while at the mini-mart? No more donuts?

Last edited by ifilef; 12-21-2016 at 10:53 PM..
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  #147  
Old 12-21-2016, 10:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Flowjoe View Post
Because she is my spouse I thought I could just go up to the doj site and show the change of ownership as a gift. o

Oh actually you may be right, sorry if I'm confusing things.


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  #148  
Old 12-21-2016, 10:57 PM
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I also came here with a spouse question, here's my understanding...

Her evil features BB rifle is in my name because I was active duty at time we got it, made things a bit easier. To make it really her rifle...

1) File Op Law form and $19

2) Register or make featureless by end of 2017.

What I don't know, if our rifles are registered as RAW, must we keep them locked up from each other? Also, must the transfer be done prior to 2017?
(Featureless really not an option)

ETA: Or...if decide to register as RAW, just let her register it since it was purchased before the 2014 registration BS?

Thanks,
Mark
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Last edited by Fyathyrio; 12-21-2016 at 11:03 PM.. Reason: Further question...
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  #149  
Old 12-21-2016, 11:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cokebottle View Post
The previous bans did have a process to allow a RAW to be registered to multiple adults of the same residence.

It remains to be seen if that will be possible this time.
Most likely, we will find out after someone registers their rifle, then is accepted or rejected registering for their spouse.
I was reviewing current law re AW and you can indeed have multiple registrants in the same household. Seems that it is restricted to family members. I don't know if 'family members' is defined anywhere. What if a distant cousin resides in the household? Does it have to be 'immediate family' members? Beats me...

PC 30955.
The department’s registration procedures shall provide the option of joint registration for any assault weapon or .50 BMG rifle owned by family members residing in the same household.
(Added by Stats. 2010, Ch. 711, Sec. 6. Effective January 1, 2011. Operative January 1, 2012, by Sec. 10 of Ch. 711.)

Last edited by ifilef; 12-21-2016 at 11:08 PM..
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  #150  
Old 12-21-2016, 11:42 PM
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Librarian Librarian is offline
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Originally Posted by Flowjoe View Post
While there is a possibility of being able to register it in a spouses name during 2017 would it be a safer course of action to do the ownership change now to ensure the ability to register?
Overall we have to hope for 1-gun registered to several family members at 1 address - because to do otherwise looks like each RAW owner would need a separate safe to prevent access by other people.
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The details only count after the Governor signs the bills.


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  #151  
Old 12-22-2016, 5:33 AM
Flowjoe Flowjoe is offline
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Originally Posted by Librarian View Post
Overall we have to hope for 1-gun registered to several family members at 1 address - because to do otherwise looks like each RAW owner would need a separate safe to prevent access by other people.
My understanding is that the law which takes effect on 1/1/2017 precludes the inheritance of a RAW by spouses or children (over 18) or parents. If multiple family members at one address were allowed to register one weapon then one registered owner could die and the other registered owner(s) would retain ownership of the RAW rendering (most of) the inheritance issue moot. Or am I missing something?

If one owner per RAW then the safe issue does become sticky.
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  #152  
Old 12-22-2016, 8:14 AM
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vmassarano vmassarano is offline
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Gentlemen,

The issue I'm most concerned about is whether I have to register my (as of now) featureless AR and AK rifles as assault weapons before 1/1/2018.

I have to believe if it has the same features as a M1A, then it should be treated as if the same.
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  #153  
Old 12-22-2016, 8:15 AM
djhall djhall is offline
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Originally Posted by enegue View Post
So if you get a flat tire with RAWs or .50s in your car and have to stop to get it fixed, you're now a felon with a 4 year minimum sentence? Makes sense...
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Originally Posted by JohnnyMtn View Post
What if while on my way to the range I stop at the mini-mart along the way to pick up water? Am I then no longer going to the range while I am at the mini-mart?
Unfortunately, I don't think the answer can or will get any better than "It depends upon the totality of the circumstances, the LEO that makes the encounter, and the DA that decides whether or not to file charges."

Transporting a RAW between your summer home in Mt. Shasta and your winter home in San Diego is going to necessitate some stops for gas, and surely restroom, and probably food. If you get a flat tire you have to fix it in order to get the RAW to an approved location. It seems unlikely that a DA would file charges and get a conviction for getting gas or repairing a flat tire under those circumstances.

On the other hand, I live six blocks from a range. If I'm taking a RAW from my house to that range, and I go five miles across town for cheaper gas and breakfast "on the way", then I think a DA might charge it and get a conviction.

The intent is obviously to limit transportation to between approved locations. Could you argue to an LEO, DA, and/or jury why your stop was a reasonable part of transporting between two approved locations?
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  #154  
Old 12-22-2016, 9:00 AM
Varmintgetter Varmintgetter is offline
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GIVEN 1/1/2017 will make BB rifles an AW but we have that 2017 entire year to register them. Does that mean we can still take the BB rifles to the public range and shoot it and not get in trouble for that entire year of 2017?
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  #155  
Old 12-22-2016, 6:00 PM
Juliuscesar1212 Juliuscesar1212 is offline
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I have an ATI Omni .22lr m4 CA complient with bullet button. The upper is 22LR rimfire and the lower is multi caliber. Do i have to register?
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  #156  
Old 12-22-2016, 6:37 PM
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Ifilef, Mayor - take it to PM.
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No one will really understand politics until they understand that politicians are not trying to solve our problems. They are trying to solve their own problems - of which getting elected and re-elected are number one and number two. Whatever is number three is far behind.
- Thomas Sowell
I've been saying that for years ...

There is no value at all complaining or analyzing or reading tea leaves to decide what these bills really mean or actually do; any bill with a chance to pass will be bad for gun owners.

The details only count after the Governor signs the bills.


Gregg Easterbrook’s “Law of Doomsaying”: Predict catastrophe no later than ten years hence but no sooner than five years away — soon enough to terrify people but distant enough that they will not remember that you were wrong.


Not a lawyer, just Some Guy On The Interwebs.


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  #157  
Old 12-22-2016, 8:11 PM
joder joder is offline
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Didn't see this covered anywhere but one has to wonder what the limitations will be on traveling to another state via plane/car/etc with said CA registered AW. There are pretty set locations on where the CA registered AW can go and out of state isn't covered, is it?
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  #158  
Old 12-22-2016, 8:38 PM
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9mmrevolver 9mmrevolver is offline
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And 30950 is why my son who is 17 but will turn 18 on the 1-3-17 can't register
A bullet button gun even though he was givin the rifle years back. For 2 days it would be illegal for him to possess it would have to be rendered back to featureless before the 1st which then cannot be registered. Is this correct
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  #159  
Old 12-22-2016, 8:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joder View Post
Didn't see this covered anywhere but one has to wonder what the limitations will be on traveling to another state via plane/car/etc with said CA registered AW. There are pretty set locations on where the CA registered AW can go and out of state isn't covered, is it?
Out of state is a legal place to go - and once there, CA law has no effect on what you may do with the guns - presuming no 'ordinary' criminal behavior.
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No one will really understand politics until they understand that politicians are not trying to solve our problems. They are trying to solve their own problems - of which getting elected and re-elected are number one and number two. Whatever is number three is far behind.
- Thomas Sowell
I've been saying that for years ...

There is no value at all complaining or analyzing or reading tea leaves to decide what these bills really mean or actually do; any bill with a chance to pass will be bad for gun owners.

The details only count after the Governor signs the bills.


Gregg Easterbrook’s “Law of Doomsaying”: Predict catastrophe no later than ten years hence but no sooner than five years away — soon enough to terrify people but distant enough that they will not remember that you were wrong.


Not a lawyer, just Some Guy On The Interwebs.


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  #160  
Old 12-22-2016, 9:11 PM
lordmorgul lordmorgul is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 9mmrevolver View Post
And 30950 is why my son who is 17 but will turn 18 on the 1-3-17 can't register

A bullet button gun even though he was givin the rifle years back. For 2 days it would be illegal for him to possess it would have to be rendered back to featureless before the 1st which then cannot be registered. Is this correct

Technically he could not have been given the gun since not yet 18, so no he will not be able to register it. You could, if he continues to live with you after 18 then he should be able to dual register it but you cannot ever transfer it to his ownership while registered.


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