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  #1  
Old 09-15-2019, 3:19 PM
morthrane morthrane is offline
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Default Black powder muzzle loader with cap-only

This is truly hypothetical, but is a black powder percussion muzzle loader considered a firearm in CA with only a cap? (no powder, no bullet)

If there is no projectile, and it is not legally a firearm, could such a device be used as a noisemaker, if not pest control device? (Legally. Arguably not a very smart thing to do given the anti-gun climate of most of CA's cities!)

To the best of my knowledge, a BP is not a firearm in CA until it is loaded and ready to fire.
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  #2  
Old 09-16-2019, 5:24 AM
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Quiet Quiet is offline
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Under CA laws...

A blackpowder muzzle loading firearm, it is considered an "antique firearm" under CA laws. [PC 16170(b)]

Because it uses a percussion cap ignition system, it is also an "antique firearm" that is exempt from CA generally prohibited weapons laws. [PC 16170(c)(1)]

Which means the following exemptions to CA firearm laws applies...

"Antique firearms" [PC 16170(b)] are only exempt from the following CA firearm laws:
01. Infreqent transfers. [PC 16520(d)(1)]
02. CA DROS. [PC 16520(d)(2)]
03. Operation of law transfers. [PC 16520(d)(3)]
04. "used firearm" transfer laws. [PC 16520(d)(4)]
05. Unloaded handgun open carry laws. [PC 16520(d)(5)]
06. Unloaded long gun open carry laws. [PC 16520(d)(6)]
07. Requirement to be a CA FFL dealer in order to transfer it. [PC 16520(d)(7)]
08. CA FFL dealer requirements when transferring firearms. [PC 16520(d)(8)]
09. Required minimum age to transfer. [PC 16520(d)(9)]
10. Required identifying marks/engravings on handguns. [PC 16520(d)(10)]
11. 10 day waiting period. [PC 16520(d)(11)]
12. PPT requirement to transfer through CA FFL dealer. [PC 16520(d)(12)]
13. Registration requirement for importing into CA and requirement to use CA FFL dealer to legally import into CA. [PC 16520(d)(13)]
14. Requirement to be licensed as a manufacturer in order to legally make in CA. [PC 16520(d)(14)]
15. Residential firearm storage requirements. [PC 16520(d)(15)]
16. "home built firearm" marking/engraving and registration requirements. [PC 16520(d)(16)]

In addition to the above, specific types of "antique firearms" [PC 16170(c)] are also exempt from these additional CA firearm laws: [PC 17700]
01. Camouflaging firearm container laws.
02. Cane gun laws.
03. Unrecognizable firearm laws.
04. Short Barrel Rifle laws.
05. Short Barrel Shotgun laws.
06. Unconventional pistol laws.
07. Undetectable firearm laws.
08. Wallet gun laws.
09. Zip gun laws.
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  #3  
Old 09-16-2019, 5:29 AM
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Therefore...

Blackpowder muzzle loading firearms are not exempt from CA discharging firearm in public laws.

Blackpowder muzzle loading firearms are not exempt from CA brandishing firearm laws.

Blackpowder muzzle loading firearms are not exempt from CA loaded firearm in public laws.
^Blackpowder muzzle loading firearm is considered "loaded" when powder & ball/shot are in the chamber/cylinder and the firearm is capped or primed. [PC 16840(b)(2)]



Penal Code 16840
(b) As used in Chapter 2 (commencing with Section 25100) of Division 4 of Title 4, in subparagraph (A) of paragraph (6) of subdivision (c) of Section 25400, and in Sections 25850 to 26055, inclusive,
(1) A firearm shall be deemed to be “loaded” when there is an unexpended cartridge or shell, consisting of a case that holds a charge of powder and a bullet or shot, in, or attached in any manner to, the firearm, including, but not limited to, in the firing chamber, magazine, or clip thereof attached to the firearm.
(2) Notwithstanding paragraph (1), a muzzle-loader firearm shall be deemed to be loaded when it is capped or primed and has a powder charge and ball or shot in the barrel or cylinder.
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Last edited by Quiet; 09-16-2019 at 5:37 AM..
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  #4  
Old 09-17-2019, 12:31 PM
Sousuke Sousuke is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quiet View Post
Therefore...

Blackpowder muzzle loading firearms are not exempt from CA discharging firearm in public laws.

Blackpowder muzzle loading firearms are not exempt from CA brandishing firearm laws.

Blackpowder muzzle loading firearms are not exempt from CA loaded firearm in public laws.
^Blackpowder muzzle loading firearm is considered "loaded" when powder & ball/shot are in the chamber/cylinder and the firearm is capped or primed. [PC 16840(b)(2)]



Penal Code 16840
(b) As used in Chapter 2 (commencing with Section 25100) of Division 4 of Title 4, in subparagraph (A) of paragraph (6) of subdivision (c) of Section 25400, and in Sections 25850 to 26055, inclusive,
(1) A firearm shall be deemed to be “loaded” when there is an unexpended cartridge or shell, consisting of a case that holds a charge of powder and a bullet or shot, in, or attached in any manner to, the firearm, including, but not limited to, in the firing chamber, magazine, or clip thereof attached to the firearm.
(2) Notwithstanding paragraph (1), a muzzle-loader firearm shall be deemed to be loaded when it is capped or primed and has a powder charge and ball or shot in the barrel or cylinder.
So does igniting a cap on the nipple count as a discharge?
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Old 09-17-2019, 4:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sousuke View Post
So does igniting a cap on the nipple count as a discharge?
Depends...

If it causes someone to be injured as a result of it going off, then the person that did it can be charged with discharging a firearm in a grossly negligent manner.

Producing, drawing, exhibiting an antique firearm (loaded or unloaded) in a rude or threatening manner is considered brandishing a firearm.
^Discharging a cap or a cap with only a powder charge during an argument or fight, is also considered brandishing a firearm.

Some County and City ordinances considers firing the cap or cap with only a powder charge to be "discharging a firearm".
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