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  #1  
Old 09-03-2019, 12:11 PM
BeachBumBurt BeachBumBurt is offline
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Default Need Help - Denied Background Check

Hello all.

Iím a new member that recently attempted to purchase a handgun. I was about 5 days into the 10 day wait when the gun store called to tell me I had been denied.

Iíve been calling the number the store gave me all morning but have yet to speak to a human.

There is nothing that should prevent me from owning in my background. The only thing I can think of is some ID theft that happened many years ago.

Any advice would be much appreciated. Should I hire a lawyer or attempt to clean this up by myself. The store basically had no information on appealing this but was told to call and ask the FBI/Attorney General Office.

Thank you in advance.


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  #2  
Old 09-03-2019, 4:43 PM
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You should eventually receive a letter from the CA DOJ with some vague reasons as to potentially why you were denied. You'll never get a hold of anyone on the phone that will discuss any reasonings either. Best bet is to get a copy of your rap sheet and a least see what they're looking at. From there you'll be able to decide the next course of action.

If you want to see the results any time soon, you want the BCIA 8016 for "Record Review". Should only take a few days to process and a few more days to receive the results in the mail. This will not start any kind of appeal process, however you can challenge the results.

https://oag.ca.gov/sites/all/files/a...cia_8016RR.pdf

The "Firearms Eligibility Denial" Livescan is done on a BCIA/BOF 8016, but will take forever to process, it has an ORI code of AB 165 instead of CA0349435 like the "Record review". This version probably would be included with a denial letter, and is supposed to initiate an appeal.

http://www.ag.ca.gov/firearms/forms/...016FRR1108.pdf

If you have a record out of state, or if you want to see what the Feds see, find an FBI channeler, the one I used (Applicant Services) had my rap sheet in my inbox before I could get to my truck in the parking lot, and was only $47.
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Old 09-03-2019, 4:51 PM
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What were you charged with and did you get it expunged later?
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Old 09-03-2019, 5:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Garv View Post
What were you charged with and did you get it expunged later?


Iíve never been arrested in my life. No idea why I would be denied other than some identity theft issues from years ago. Basically someone used my identity, racked up a bunch of credit in my name and was arrested for multiple offenses using my name. However this was cleared up years ago in court and the guy that did this to me had to spend a few years in jail (under his name not mine). This is the only thing I can possibly think about it being the reason for denial.


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Old 09-03-2019, 5:06 PM
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Sorry, I misunderstood you.

Good luck.
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Old 09-03-2019, 5:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeachBumBurt View Post
Iíve never been arrested in my life. No idea why I would be denied other than some identity theft issues from years ago. Basically someone used my identity, racked up a bunch of credit in my name and was arrested for multiple offenses using my name. However this was cleared up years ago in court and the guy that did this to me had to spend a few years in jail (under his name not mine). This is the only thing I can possibly think about it being the reason for denial.


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Well, that's probably it. When you get the letter from CADOJ respond with that documentation.
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Old 09-03-2019, 5:13 PM
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Also, to confirm, you were Denied, and not Rejected? They are different situations.

About 1/3rd of the way down the page:
https://oag.ca.gov/firearms
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rejected
There are two common reasons why a DROS application may be rejected:
(1) you attempted to purchase more than one handgun in a 30-day period (California Penal Code section 27540, subdivision (f)); or,
(2) you attempted to purchase a firearm with an invalid, suspended, revoked, or expired California Driverís License or California Identification Card (California Penal Code section 16400).

In the case of a 30-day handgun purchase restriction, you cannot attempt to buy more than one handgun in a 30-day period. If one of your transactions was a private party transfer or pawn redemption, you need to check with the dealer to make sure the correct transaction type was selected when the transaction was submitted to DOJ.

In the case of a Department of Motor Vehicles (DMV) rejection, your application was rejected based on information provided to us by the California DMV. You must contact the DMV to make sure your California Driverís License or California Identification Card information is up-to-date and correct.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Denied
If your DROS application is denied, you will receive a letter from the DOJ Bureau of Firearms within two weeks. The letter will explain the reason and instructions on how to get a copy of the record that resulted in the denial of your application. There will also be instructions on how to dispute and correct information in your record you believe is wrong. DOJ staff cannot discuss your record over the telephone. Therefore, it is recommended that you get a copy of your record and follow the instructions for disputing inaccuracies. You may also wish to retain an attorney for legal advice and who can best represent your interests on how to restore your rights to buy firearms.

If your DROS application was denied based on a Federal Brady prohibition (e.g., out-of-state conviction, illegal/unlawful alien, military dishonorable discharge, out-of-state mental health record, etc.), you can appeal the denial of your application directly to the Federal Bureau of Investigation National Instant Criminal History Background Check System (NICS). When discussing your situation with NICS, you must include the NICS Transaction Number (NTN) associated with your firearm purchase as referenced in the denial letter sent to you by the DOJ Bureau of Firearms. You can appeal directly to NICS by downloading the NICS appeal brochure and following the instructions found at NICS Appeals page.
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Old 09-03-2019, 5:31 PM
BeachBumBurt BeachBumBurt is offline
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Thanks to everyone and the info provided.

Ajb78: Iím pretty sure the letter the store received said ďDo not allow transfer....Ē and the store said I was denied.

It sounds like my letter wonít arrive for a few days and even then there may not be clarity. I think as mentioned I need to go get a copy of my livescan results so I can see if anything is on there that makes sense then go from there.

Iím also considering hiring a lawyer. Would anyone recommend a good lawyer in Northern California that could assist me?

Thanks again for everyoneís input. Greatly appreciated.


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Old 09-03-2019, 6:43 PM
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Recommended here, but I have not used them.

Law Offices of Donald Kilmer, A.P.C.
1645 Willow Street, Suite 150
San Jose, California 95125-5120
Voice: (408) 264-8489

I suggest after you get the response to post another question re: what lawyers to use.

Maybe add your city to the post.
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Old 09-03-2019, 6:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Garv View Post
Recommended here, but I have not used them.

Law Offices of Donald Kilmer, A.P.C.
1645 Willow Street, Suite 150
San Jose, California 95125-5120
Voice: (408) 264-8489

I suggest after you get the response to post another question re: what lawyers to use.

Maybe add your city to the post.


Oakdale, CA


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Old 09-03-2019, 7:46 PM
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I can also recommend Adam Richards and Jason Davis

https://www.ajrlaw.net/
www.calgunlawyers.com

You may also want to get your FBI rap sheet if the identity thief was using your ID and info in another state. If you use the Approved Channeler option 3, you will have results in hours.
https://www.fbi.gov/services/cjis/id...summary-checks

One problem is that the state and fed records check are submitted with your fingerprints, and I don’t know what happens when some other persons fingerprints are associated with your identity - I don’t know if you get complete records.
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Old 09-03-2019, 7:50 PM
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I had a friend rejected because his (very common) full name matched that of an IRA gunman (who was in prison in Northern Ireland) and his birthdate matched as well, except for the year. Which was off by two decades.

It took almost six months to straighten out, but it was resolved.

Best of luck.
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Old 09-04-2019, 11:14 AM
BeachBumBurt BeachBumBurt is offline
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Well I just completed my FBI rap sheet check and it came back clean. I am assuming I should also do a state/local check.


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Old 09-04-2019, 12:31 PM
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^^^^ As I suspected, it looks like they searched records based on fingerprints and not necessarily name/birth date etc.

That means someone who was arrested and gave your identifying info can still foul up a background check.

At this point you have to wait for the letter from DOJ and see what it says and if it was a state issue or fed issue that caused the denial.
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Old 09-04-2019, 12:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SkyHawk View Post
^^^^ As I suspected, it looks like they searched records based on fingerprints and not necessarily name/birth date etc.

That means someone who was arrested and gave your identifying info can still foul up a background check.

At this point you have to wait for the letter from DOJ and see what it says and if it was a state issue or fed issue that caused the denial.


Yeah I think you nailed it. I am going back later today to get a 2nd LiveScan that will give me my State DOJ information. I suspect it will be clean but who knows.


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Old 09-04-2019, 4:28 PM
BeachBumBurt BeachBumBurt is offline
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Just completed my state CA-DOJ Background and no surprise the record was clean. I think I now have to sit and wait for the denial letter and hope that it tells me a specific reason why I was denied.


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Old 09-04-2019, 4:30 PM
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^^^Wow, how did you get it so quickly? Have they changed the process? Before you had to do the LiveScan, and then wait for the report in the mail.
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Old 09-04-2019, 4:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ajb78 View Post
^^^Wow, how did you get it so quickly? Have they changed the process? Before you had to do the LiveScan, and then wait for the report in the mail.


I used a service that emailed me the results. Similar to the FBI background report. It also said a hard copy would be mailed to me.


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Old 09-04-2019, 4:36 PM
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^^^Gotcha, thanks.
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Old 09-05-2019, 8:12 AM
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Aren't there some issues other than convictions or DMV that will cause denials? TRO, 5150, dishonorable discharge, medical MJ card ?
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Old 09-05-2019, 8:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alpha_romeo_XV View Post
Aren't there some issues other than convictions or DMV that will cause denials? TRO, 5150, dishonorable discharge, medical MJ card ?


I believe so. Iím patiently waiting for the denial letter in hopes that it provides some clarity. Itís absolutely killing me that I donít know why I was denied. Iíll check back in once I receive the official letter and let everyone know.


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Old 09-05-2019, 4:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeachBumBurt View Post
I believe so. Iím patiently waiting for the denial letter in hopes that it provides some clarity. Itís absolutely killing me that I donít know why I was denied. Iíll check back in once I receive the official letter and let everyone know.


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Even after receiving the awaited denial letter. You may remain in limbo. The DOJ has the option of listing "OTHER" as a reason for denial.

In which case they will clam up, and never share the actual reason. As has been the case with others in same situation.
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Old 09-05-2019, 7:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ajb78 View Post
Also, to confirm, you were Denied, and not Rejected? They are different situations.

About 1/3rd of the way down the page:
https://oag.ca.gov/firearms
Good luck trying a NICS appeal. I think they are processing appeals from late 2015 right now. IIRC, they were just tossing some of them for lack of resources to process (or so they claim). I know that some folks had to basically sue the FBI to fix their records and be able to pass a NICS check (and also to get their lawyer fees and such reimbursed). Steve Stambouleigh was the lawyer on those suits.
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Old 09-14-2019, 5:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SkyHawk View Post
^^^^ As I suspected, it looks like they searched records based on fingerprints and not necessarily name/birth date etc.

That means someone who was arrested and gave your identifying info can still foul up a background check.

At this point you have to wait for the letter from DOJ and see what it says and if it was a state issue or fed issue that caused the denial.
Was wondering if the Feds have our finger/thumb prints from CA DMV driver license ?
If what the OP said is true about never being trouble than his prints should only be at CA DMV and only thumb print.
Not to be a conspiracy nut job but it is almost as if CA DOJ is doing all this to get everyone into the system, even on federal level.
The "give us your DNA sample to rule you out" seems to be same idea.
Was told that the thumb print we give during DROS is "filed" and used only if "needed" to confirm buyers identity.
Love the idea that we have to prove they are wrong.

Last time I DROSed May/2019 the FFL had 5-Delayed, he was pissed along with 5-buyers.
CA DOJ must take vacations in May.
No denials just all delayed.

Who is LIVESCAN ?
Why do they need prints and not just proof of identity?



Good Luck BeachBumBert, please update once you get the letter.
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Old 09-14-2019, 2:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by foothillman View Post
Was wondering if the Feds have our finger/thumb prints from CA DMV driver license ?

If what the OP said is true about never being trouble than his prints should only be at CA DMV and only thumb print.

Not to be a conspiracy nut job but it is almost as if CA DOJ is doing all this to get everyone into the system, even on federal level.

The "give us your DNA sample to rule you out" seems to be same idea.

Was told that the thumb print we give during DROS is "filed" and used only if "needed" to confirm buyers identity.

Love the idea that we have to prove they are wrong.



Last time I DROSed May/2019 the FFL had 5-Delayed, he was pissed along with 5-buyers.

CA DOJ must take vacations in May.

No denials just all delayed.



Who is LIVESCAN ?

Why do they need prints and not just proof of identity?







Good Luck BeachBumBert, please update once you get the letter.


Yes Iíve never been arrested and my fingerprints were never in the ďsystemĒ per say as every background check I have had over the last 10 days have come back clean with no record found.
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Old 09-27-2019, 11:50 AM
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Got an update today from CA-DOJ...

This was part of my denial appeal that is submitted through LiveScan system. What I received is two letters one for background history that says no records found and another for Firearm eligibility that says no criminal records associated with me.

I was able to speak with the CA-DOJ and what they told me is that my denial was a FBI-NICS denial and I have to go through that process as well. It woulda been nice to know this in their original letter of denial but whatever. Itís strange they say FBI denial when my FBI LiveScan came back clean with no records when I did it a few weeks ago.

I guess Iíll submit my NICS appeal and see what happens but this is bull****. I feel for anyone who has ever been in this situation as it is depressing to witness.
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Old 09-27-2019, 11:58 AM
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OP, good luck with this.
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Old 09-27-2019, 12:50 PM
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Thanks for the update. I'm interested to find out more.
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Old 09-27-2019, 12:56 PM
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Wow that sucks! Once you get the FBI letter, consider contacting a firearms attorney. Bruce Colodny

https://gunlaw.com/
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Old 09-27-2019, 1:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeachBumBurt View Post
Got an update today from CA-DOJ...

This was part of my denial appeal that is submitted through LiveScan system. What I received is two letters one for background history that says no records found and another for Firearm eligibility that says no criminal records associated with me.

I was able to speak with the CA-DOJ and what they told me is that my denial was a FBI-NICS denial and I have to go through that process as well. It woulda been nice to know this in their original letter of denial but whatever. Itís strange they say FBI denial when my FBI LiveScan came back clean with no records when I did it a few weeks ago.

I guess Iíll submit my NICS appeal and see what happens but this is bull****. I feel for anyone who has ever been in this situation as it is depressing to witness.

Submit the NICS appeal with fingerprints. Then just be patient, it should get cleared up.

If you do get a successful NICS appeal, then I suggest you also apply for a VAF at NICS so you don't have to keep going through this. By law they are not allowed to keep your records unless you authorize them to, and that is what VAF does.

https://www.fbi.gov/services/cjis/ni...cs-appeals-vaf


Good luck!
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Old 09-28-2019, 5:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SkyHawk View Post
Submit the NICS appeal with fingerprints. Then just be patient, it should get cleared up.

If you do get a successful NICS appeal, then I suggest you also apply for a VAF at NICS so you don't have to keep going through this. By law they are not allowed to keep your records unless you authorize them to, and that is what VAF does.

https://www.fbi.gov/services/cjis/ni...cs-appeals-vaf


Good luck!
Interesting thread, I feel for the OP. I knew identity theft could mess up your finances, but had never considered the 2A ramifications.

I was unaware of the VAF process and checked out the link provided and from the link.

Quote:
The NICS Section is currently processing Voluntary Appeal File (VAF) cases received in May 2017.
Hopefully the OP can get this mess straightened out before then.
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Old 09-28-2019, 6:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SkyHawk View Post
Submit the NICS appeal with fingerprints. Then just be patient, it should get cleared up.

If you do get a successful NICS appeal, then I suggest you also apply for a VAF at NICS so you don't have to keep going through this. By law they are not allowed to keep your records unless you authorize them to, and that is what VAF does.

https://www.fbi.gov/services/cjis/ni...cs-appeals-vaf


Good luck!
Wouldn't the better course of action be to submit the VAF in lieu of the NICS appeal?

The VAF application states:
"NOTE: THIS IS NOT AN APPEAL BROCHURE.
HOWEVER, THIS APPLICATION CAN BE
USED TO INITIATE AN APPEAL ALONG WITH
APPLYING FOR THE VAF. IF YOU WANT TO
INITIATE AN APPEAL, PLEASE PROVIDE THE
NICS TRANSACTION NUMBER ON THE
BOTTOM OF THIS APPLICATION."

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Old 09-28-2019, 8:01 AM
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Thanks for sharing your problem with us. Very informative.
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Old 09-28-2019, 8:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ajb78 View Post
Wouldn't the better course of action be to submit the VAF in lieu of the NICS appeal?

The VAF application states:
"NOTE: THIS IS NOT AN APPEAL BROCHURE.
HOWEVER, THIS APPLICATION CAN BE
USED TO INITIATE AN APPEAL ALONG WITH
APPLYING FOR THE VAF. IF YOU WANT TO
INITIATE AN APPEAL, PLEASE PROVIDE THE
NICS TRANSACTION NUMBER ON THE
BOTTOM OF THIS APPLICATION."
Yes, good catch - that looks like the best course of action considering how long these VAF are taking now. When I did VAF it only took 3 months or so, but that was many years ago and I had recently gotten a successful NICS appeal.
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Old 09-28-2019, 2:31 PM
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Have you ever successfully purchased a firearm here in Cali, with the background check, BEFORE this one you were denied on?
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Old 09-28-2019, 2:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KatMan53 View Post
Have you ever successfully purchased a firearm here in Cali, with the background check, BEFORE this one you were denied on?


No I have not. Although over the past 20 years Iíve passed multiple background checks related to work within classified facilities/govt buildings.
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  #37  
Old 09-28-2019, 9:47 PM
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BAJ475 BAJ475 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SkyHawk View Post
Yes, good catch - that looks like the best course of action considering how long these VAF are taking now. When I did VAF it only took 3 months or so, but that was many years ago and I had recently gotten a successful NICS appeal.
You had to do a NICS appeal? If you feel uncomfortable about publicly giving any details, please PM me. I have a client whose NICS appeal was denied and I am in the process of filing an action against the FBI to force them to acknowledge that my client's offense is a non prohibiting misdemeanor.
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  #38  
Old 09-29-2019, 2:34 PM
BeachBumBurt BeachBumBurt is offline
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Default Need Help - Denied Background Check

Thanks for everyoneís feedback and help. Iíve been getting a lot of DMís about my case so I figured Iíd provide a recap for all to read.

So my situation started when I applied to purchase my first handgun and was issued this denial letter saying I am a Felon

I was shocked as Iíve never been arrested nor do I qualify for any issue listed as a disqualification. I have lived a clean life and worked for the govt in a few different capacities. Each of these required background checks. So to see my potential felony record I did the ďFBI LiveScanĒ


As you can see there is no record. So I decided to also do my ďLocal/State LiveScanĒ This one returned one record for a few years ago when I did a pre-employment LiveScan for a City contract but no criminal offenses.


I then sent in the LiveScan which the original denial letter referenced. Itís my understanding this is the CA DOJís appeal process for a denial. I received these two letters in response stating there was no record found.

When I received these two response letters I was unsure what they meant. I was expecting a letter saying the appeal was upheld or overturned but they basically say nothing. I was able to call and speak with the CA DOJ and an agent was a little unsure and told me to do the appeal LiveScan. When I told them I already had and received no record response they told me well it must be a NICS denial and I would have to appeal through NICS.

The thing that doesnít make sense to me is CA is a POC State and it seems like the CA DOJ should be the ones that denied me and my appeal should be with them. Anyways thatís where things stand. I plan on calling CA DOJ on Monday and speaking further with their agents about this. I have no problem appealing through NICS but donít want to waste my time if this isnít the correct path. Itís really frustrating bc when looking at the NICS appeal page they say to provide documentation in support of my appeal, well I have no idea what record they used to deny me so how can I provide proof?


Iíve mentioned this briefly in other posts, that I was a victim of ID theft. Iím guessing this could be the reason but literally have no idea since no agency has been able to tell me. All the research Iíve done has uncovered ďno criminal recordĒ which is surprising since they denied me based off something? That something says I am a Felon yet no one at any agency can tell me what this record was that triggered the denial. Very frustrating.

Any advice, thoughts, or DMs are greatly appreciated.
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Old 09-29-2019, 5:07 PM
denpython denpython is offline
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Thanks for sharing and kudos for your persistence and tenacity!
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  #40  
Old 10-06-2019, 10:09 AM
f1tzg3r4ld f1tzg3r4ld is offline
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I recently submitted a CA DOJ appeal. Still waiting for them to correct my file so I can pick up my firearm. Thanks for sharing your arduous journey. When CA DOJ corrects your file, will the correction also be forwarded to the NCIS system? My other question, what service did you use to get FBI NCIS file e mailed to you?
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