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Concealed Carry Discussion General discussion regarding CCW/LTC in California

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  #1  
Old 05-18-2022, 11:55 PM
Ewok55 Ewok55 is offline
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Default Mass Shooter in Body Armor

The Buffalo psychopathic killer was wearing body armor and his ramblings stated that it was for guard, CCW and police threats. Seems like there are others you read about doing similar. While unlikely, what would you do if you had to defend against someone like that you thought might be in body armor while you are shopping or whatever? If the shooter is wearing armor, center of mass is what most armor takes away. Would you first go for a head/hip/leg shot if it looks like he has armor on? Double lapping the center of mass first might cost you the instant you have at a a good shot.
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Old 05-19-2022, 12:01 AM
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An argument can be said that two body shots might give you a better opportunity for a head shot.

That said, this is where traning comes into play. FAST drill seems appropriate. How many here have done it in 5 secs or less. Or has a less than 0.5 second split to the headshot on a Mozambique?

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Old 05-19-2022, 12:56 AM
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across the pelvis and work up to the head.
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Old 05-19-2022, 2:01 AM
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Two to the vest and one to the gourd..
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Old 05-19-2022, 3:56 AM
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Head shots are hard to make, pelvic shots offer a bigger target area. Once you realize the target has a vest lower your aim, get them down before going for a head shot.
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  #6  
Old 05-19-2022, 5:15 AM
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#Magdump
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Old 05-19-2022, 6:58 AM
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Take a cue from how the military has evolved during the last 20 years. You need to be delivering multiple shots in succession as fast as you can shoot accurately (.2 splits minimum). The Zipper drill is a good example of this, starting at the upper chest and working your way up the body.
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Old 05-19-2022, 8:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mossy View Post
Head shots are hard to make, pelvic shots offer a bigger target area. Once you realize the target has a vest lower your aim, get them down before going for a head shot.
There's no point in a pelvic shot to an active shooter (unless somehow its the only thing presented to you)

An active shooter with a broken pelvis is now on the ground in a more stable shooting platform... not as mobile, but yet an even greater threat with a gun.
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Old 05-19-2022, 8:59 AM
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If you mag dump on center mass most likely you'll take out his arms if he's trying to aim/shoot that will stop the threat.
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Old 05-19-2022, 11:08 AM
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You have to be pretty motivated to keep shooting after getting shot in the dick a few times. Judging on how easly our Buffalo shooter gave up, I'm guessing a dick shot would have put him out of commision. If nothing else, they are now a static shooter, not moving and shooting.

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Originally Posted by mej16489 View Post
There's no point in a pelvic shot to an active shooter (unless somehow its the only thing presented to you)

An active shooter with a broken pelvis is now on the ground in a more stable shooting platform... not as mobile, but yet an even greater threat with a gun.
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  #11  
Old 05-19-2022, 11:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mej16489 View Post
There's no point in a pelvic shot to an active shooter (unless somehow its the only thing presented to you)

An active shooter with a broken pelvis is now on the ground in a more stable shooting platform... not as mobile, but yet an even greater threat with a gun.
Huh, I woulda never thought shooting somebody in tha junk would make them more deadly.

What about a double-tap to the Asphincter? Hulk mode? Run for our lives? Asking for a friend.
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Old 05-19-2022, 11:46 AM
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Pelvic shots can break the weak pevic bones and are very debilitating. They can also cause massive bleeding which will take you out of the fight quick.

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Old 05-19-2022, 12:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigStiCK View Post
Huh, I woulda never thought shooting somebody in tha junk would make them more deadly.

What about a double-tap to the Asphincter? Hulk mode? Run for our lives? Asking for a friend.
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Old 05-19-2022, 1:09 PM
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I really don't know what I'd do, but I like to think I would aim thighs/pelvis/lower abdomen.

Reasoning being thighs have some big ole arteries, pelvis dramatically reduces movement of the threat potentially allowing victims to escape, and lower abdomen has potential for shock from a shot to liver or kidneys depending on the size and angle of the threat and type of armor.

God, I hope to never have to put any of that to test. Terrifying and tragic.
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Old 05-19-2022, 1:50 PM
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Femoral arteries run through the pelvis and you bleed out quickly if you hit one, not to mention immobilization of the shooter.
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Old 05-19-2022, 1:55 PM
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Shoot off his pinky toe. Ever stubbed your pinky toe? That hurts like hell.
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Old 05-19-2022, 2:07 PM
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I shot bad guy in kneecap with 5.56 a long time ago he dropped like a ton of bricks. All the fight went out of him.
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Old 05-19-2022, 3:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edgerly779 View Post
I shot bad guy in kneecap with 5.56 a long time ago he dropped like a ton of bricks. All the fight went out of him.
That's low


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Old 05-19-2022, 3:20 PM
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Shoot off his pinky toe. Ever stubbed your pinky toe? That hurts like hell.
I can attest to this.
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Old 05-19-2022, 3:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mej16489 View Post
There's no point in a pelvic shot to an active shooter (unless somehow its the only thing presented to you)

An active shooter with a broken pelvis is now on the ground in a more stable shooting platform... not as mobile, but yet an even greater threat with a gun.
Or, he knows he’s done and puts the next round into his own dome.

Take what you can get imo. Work up or down from there.
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Old 05-19-2022, 3:41 PM
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Headshot, pelvic-shot, legshot, toeshot; I think all you are nuts to even contemplate this.
The psycho used AR15 rifle and if you watched his video , he wasn’t really exposing himself as an easy target. When he was reloading, he was hiding behind wall/barrier.


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Old 05-19-2022, 3:44 PM
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This may not be easy, but a rnd thru the arm pit will take out everything vital, if that is exposed to you. Anyone remember the whacko with a Steyer Aug who was shootin up a street in SFO and when a newbie female SFO cop got out of the cruiser with a AR 16 the whacko/perp put a rnd thru her arm pit and it was lights out NOW ! Somebody on this site should remember that story.

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Old 05-19-2022, 5:46 PM
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How does an armpit hit stop anything beyond possibly the arm that was hit? The main lines for the nerves and circulation don't go through the armpit. I can imagine some shooter might give up after any hit, but that's different from incapacitation.

The entire pelvis is a larger target than the ocular T, but not all of it is all that good of a target. I think the odds are best with a head shot, but someone might be able to upgrade my knowledge of anatomy.
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Old 05-19-2022, 6:49 PM
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Your armpits are mine, infidels

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Old 05-19-2022, 7:24 PM
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If the armpit shot was left to right and not front to back, it would do considerable damage. Especially a 5.56 round.

Quite frankly, I'd imagine shots not made center mass would take too long and probably miss. That is, unless you had decent cover and the BG was distracted. Otherwise, they've got more firepower and better defense. That situation is not one to participate in.

Assuming the BG is bearing down on me, my plan is mag dump and run. I'm not going to stand there getting lit up because I'm trying to hit something the size of a grapefruit while be getting shot at by an AR.
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Old 05-19-2022, 8:08 PM
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I remember reading many years ago (International Wound Ballistics Association journal?), that pelvic girdle is unlikely to fracture, much less shatter, because of a hit by a handgun round. Article included an X-ray image of an otherwise healthy pelvis with 0.45” hole in it.

Don’t count on a disabling pelvis shot. Don’t count on head shots (skull is hard, parts are rounded, other have sharp angles). Don’t count on high COM. Bottom line: don’t count on handgun cartridges, they’re crappy for stopping determined attacker.

Does anyone know if the involved security guard went for alternative targets? If BG is wearing helmet I’m assuming body armor too.

Some jobs are best left for “the boys in blue”: just get out of Dodge ASAP.

If others chose not to carry, that’s on them.
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Old 05-19-2022, 8:25 PM
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Run, hide, then fight as a last resort. Why try to be a hero and bet your life on a shot at a moving target while possibly being shot at with nerves on fire? Guy was also wearing a ballistic helmet so I doubt any of your 9mm or 45ACP hollow points would have done anything if he was hit there.

If you can't exit, find a place to hide, and if the baddy has found you, then sure, take your shot at the pelvis or the head. First priority is to get you and your family away.
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Old 05-19-2022, 9:11 PM
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uncle joe says shoot em in the leg if they cant walk you can escape and if you are lucky femoral
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Old 05-20-2022, 5:22 PM
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zipper starting from pelvic girdle.
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Old 05-20-2022, 5:58 PM
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Old 05-20-2022, 9:27 PM
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When I was a kid we toured the FBI. They showed how agents were taught to empty five rounds into the hip. Reportedly so that they could testify at trial but not get away.

If you're the security guard and the first think you see is the guy with a rifle shooting at you, it's not going to go well.

But what if you're the CCW customer who sees him shoot the guard? You may have time to draw and seek concealment while he's not looking at you. And then do like the security at that Texas church - one to the face.
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Old 05-20-2022, 11:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thoughts View Post
How does an armpit hit stop anything beyond possibly the arm that was hit? The main lines for the nerves and circulation don't go through the armpit. I can imagine some shooter might give up after any hit, but that's different from incapacitation.

The entire pelvis is a larger target than the ocular T, but not all of it is all that good of a target. I think the odds are best with a head shot, but someone might be able to upgrade my knowledge of anatomy.
It was an armpit hit that may have eventually stopped Platt in the Miami shootout. The bullet went through his arm into his chest and into his lung, collapsing it.
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Old 05-22-2022, 6:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thoughts View Post
How does an armpit hit stop anything beyond possibly the arm that was hit? The main lines for the nerves and circulation don't go through the armpit. I can imagine some shooter might give up after any hit, but that's different from incapacitation.
Law Enforcement Officers Feloniously Killed with Firearms While Wearing Body Armor; Point of Entry for Torso Wounds, 2005–2014.

Over 40% caused by armpit hits wearing body armor.

Years ago, the Weaver stance was taught to "blade" the body toward the threat turning sideways to engage. While that reduced your profile and supported the Weaver grip, it also opened the side of the body and armpit to the threat. That's where body armor is weakest and provides a direct path to the heart.

Today, a version of the Isosceles stance is taught as it provides a better shooting platform, presents the body armor to the threat and allows you to move more effectively than a bladed stance.
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Old 05-24-2022, 6:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G-forceJunkie View Post
You have to be pretty motivated to keep shooting after getting shot in the dick a few times. Judging on how easly our Buffalo shooter gave up, I'm guessing a dick shot would have put him out of commision. If nothing else, they are now a static shooter, not moving and shooting.

That racist mofo was definitely motivated
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Old 05-24-2022, 7:15 PM
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If he was focused on something else try to swing around and get a side shot.
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