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  #1  
Old 05-05-2019, 2:18 PM
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Default "Hail Satan?" movie (released 2019 April 19)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=27RtJp-rhHk



The maggots are coming out to feed on the corpse of Christendom....
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Old 05-05-2019, 6:39 PM
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I understand your meaning. But you need to understand that the gates of hell will not stand against Christianity. He is Risen.
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Old 05-05-2019, 6:45 PM
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It’s truly end times satan is out in the open and people worship him.
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Old 05-05-2019, 7:19 PM
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horrible, but...

they don't concern me nearly as
much as left-wingers & moose limbs
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Old 05-05-2019, 11:33 PM
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Quote:
NKJ 2 Timothy 3:1 But know this, that in the last days perilous times will come: 2 For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, 3 unloving, unforgiving, slanderers, without self-control, brutal, despisers of good, 4 traitors, headstrong, haughty, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, 5 having a form of godliness but denying its power. And from such people turn away! ...

12 Yes, and all who desire to live godly in Christ Jesus will suffer persecution. 13 But evil men and impostors will grow worse and worse, deceiving and being deceived. 14 But you must continue in the things which you have learned and been assured of, knowing from whom you have learned them, 15 and that from childhood you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. 16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.
Thankfully, we have the antidote...

SG
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Old 05-06-2019, 6:41 AM
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Here we go again......I vote for freedom who cares what they believe in......in fact it looks like a silly move.
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Old 05-06-2019, 8:06 AM
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It's a documentary.
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Old 05-06-2019, 8:08 AM
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You Got is Ramclap, absolutely Got it nailed.

Psalm 1
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Old 05-06-2019, 2:59 PM
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Some people worry too much. In the Old Testament, Satan was a member of God's court. He was just the prosecuting attorney, so to speak. It was his job to challenge people to PROVE their loyalty. He wasn't the enemy of God nor was he the enemy of humanity. More of a legal pain than a problem. After all, if God had enemies, he wouldn't be God. And if there were challenging deities, then there would have to be more than one deity -- contra monotheism. Ironically, monotheism came only slightly before dualism. As long as Satan was part of the heavenly court, it seems that Jewish tradition was okay with there being multiple gods (God of gods, Lord of lords implies there is more than one -- henotheism, as it is called by academics). It wasn't until after YHWH became the only God that Satan became his enemy. I guess we just can't shake polytheism after all.

Zoroastrianism introduced dualism into Judaism, which was the result of the priesthood adopting some of the views of the Babylonians while they were in exile there. Then the Greeks took that up a notch with ideas about Hades. Then the Romans morphed it further to conquer pagans and nature worshipers. Satan, the devil, the adversary -- it has always been an evolving idea.
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Old 05-06-2019, 9:02 PM
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also understand that the Christian Satan is not the same as what Satanists believe in. In much of the Bible, Satan is evil, the polar opposite of the light and what Christ teaches, and that's what many are taught, that Satan is the path to sin. That's all well and good but Satanists don't actually "worship" Satan the evil one, nor do they have any actual deity at all. They don't worship anyone, because for them Satan is just a metaphor for the opposite of organized religion. Satanism was created more as an organization for athiests. They believe in freedom, and freedom from religion, but they're not anarchists or "evil" in the way the word Satan invokes to most people.
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Old 05-07-2019, 4:36 AM
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Some people worry too much. In the Old Testament, Satan was a member of God's court. He was just the prosecuting attorney, so to speak. It was his job to challenge people to PROVE their loyalty. He wasn't the enemy of God nor was he the enemy of humanity. More of a legal pain than a problem. After all, if God had enemies, he wouldn't be God. And if there were challenging deities, then there would have to be more than one deity -- contra monotheism. Ironically, monotheism came only slightly before dualism. As long as Satan was part of the heavenly court, it seems that Jewish tradition was okay with there being multiple gods (God of gods, Lord of lords implies there is more than one -- henotheism, as it is called by academics). It wasn't until after YHWH became the only God that Satan became his enemy. I guess we just can't shake polytheism after all.

Zoroastrianism introduced dualism into Judaism, which was the result of the priesthood adopting some of the views of the Babylonians while they were in exile there. Then the Greeks took that up a notch with ideas about Hades. Then the Romans morphed it further to conquer pagans and nature worshipers. Satan, the devil, the adversary -- it has always been an evolving idea.
Wow. Did you miss the mark on this one. The Trinity is not multiple gods. It is one God with three persons. Three personae and one ousios. Satan is not and never will be god or even a god. All of humanity are God's enemies. They hate Him and it requires Him making men His friends.
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Old 05-07-2019, 4:39 AM
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also understand that the Christian Satan is not the same as what Satanists believe in. In much of the Bible, Satan is evil, the polar opposite of the light and what Christ teaches, and that's what many are taught, that Satan is the path to sin. That's all well and good but Satanists don't actually "worship" Satan the evil one, nor do they have any actual deity at all. They don't worship anyone, because for them Satan is just a metaphor for the opposite of organized religion. Satanism was created more as an organization for athiests. They believe in freedom, and freedom from religion, but they're not anarchists or "evil" in the way the word Satan invokes to most people.
As usual, men bending what is to suit their own desires. So it has been since the fall.
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Old 05-07-2019, 4:57 AM
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These people are cute. They bear about as close a resemblance to a real traditional Satanist as a raccoon does to a grizzly bear. They like attention, hate authoritarianism and are sick of being looked down on and dictated to by "christians" who like to dress up in churchy clothes on Sunday then cheat on their spouses, neglect their kids, fudge their taxes, screw their employees out of decent wages and working conditions the other six days of the week.

Some of their detractors sound like they think these cosplay "satanists" are going to destroy christendom. But a thousand of them on their best day couldn't do the damage to christianity of one dolly-diddling pulpit-pounder.

Ghandi, who held huge influence over millions of people on the Indian sub-continent famously remarked "I would have converted to Christianity... if it were not for christians". If you want to see who REALLY poses a threat to christianity, it is those who claim the name, but deny the faith through their actions. And I don't blame the Satanists (or anyone else) for being sick of that kind of hypocrisy.

REAL Satanists aren't parading around in public wearing fake horns carrying picket signs... they wear expensive suits and sit in board rooms, court rooms and elected offices and they make decisions, not protests. Wake up and start figuring out who the real enemy is, instead of getting distracted by a bunch of kids with attitudes in Halloween costumes.
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Old 05-07-2019, 9:44 AM
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Wow. Did you miss the mark on this one. The Trinity is not multiple gods. It is one God with three persons. Three personae and one ousios. Satan is not and never will be god or even a god. All of humanity are God's enemies. They hate Him and it requires Him making men His friends.
Miss it? Hardly. I just happen to agree with the Muslims and Jews on this one. The trinity is polytheism, not monotheism. If God has a son, then there are two gods. And if there is also a holy spirit that is separate from the father and son, then there are three. And if the Bible is now some perfect, inerrant "Word of God," as they say in many American Protestant circles, then I say there's a fourth. It's simple math. Just add them all up. The "three in one" is a convenient rationalization to maintain the monotheistic roots. It was a nonsensical compromise to canonize the idea AFTER Christianity had already morphed into a Hellenistic religion, far from its Jewish roots. Christianity has preserved so much paganism in it that I have to laugh at the irony of it all.

But don't get me wrong here. I don't find fault with polytheism. Just the denial.
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Old 05-07-2019, 10:08 AM
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No. Even the Jews knew that the Messiah would be God when he arrived. 1 God. Three persons. All share the same eternal essence. "Let US create man in OUR image".
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Old 05-07-2019, 10:10 AM
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Democrats!



What are going do ?
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Old 05-07-2019, 10:49 AM
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No. Even the Jews knew that the Messiah would be God when he arrived. 1 God. Three persons. All share the same eternal essence. "Let US create man in OUR image".
Jewish faith believes that the Mashiach, when he arrives will be a great leader or King anointed by G-d, that will usher in the Messianic era where Jews will return to Israel, reinstate biblical law, rebuild the Temple and enjoy peace and prosperity for mankind. That leader will be of human flesh and beget a dynasty of great leaders that will lead after his death. The Mashiach can not be a god or demi-god, for there is only one G-d.

This also why Jews do not believe that Jesus was the Mashiach. Where Christians believe he died and was resurrected in order to fulfill G-d's Messianic promise, Jews believe that if he even existed, he failed to do the requirements of the Mashiach that are required by scripture.
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Old 05-07-2019, 11:03 AM
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Incorrect again. The Jews knew and know the Messiah is God. Isaiah 9:6. Mighty God.
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Old 05-07-2019, 11:14 AM
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This "Hail Satan" primer looks more like a comedy then something to be taken seriously...

So WTF
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Old 05-07-2019, 11:31 AM
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Incorrect again. The Jews knew and know the Messiah is God. Isaiah 9:6. Mighty God.
"For a child has been born to us, a son given to us, and the authority is upon his shoulder, and the wondrous adviser, the mighty God, the everlasting Father, called his name, "the prince of peace." Isaiah 9.6

Christianity takes a very different interpretation of this than Judaism.

Judaism interpretation:
The child born is Hezekiah, the son of treasonous Ahaz, and was anointed by G-d to rule Jerusalem in Ahaz's stead.

"The wondrous adviser, the mighty God, the everlasting Father," is in reference to G-d, not the son.

Hezekiah was given the authority to rule over Jerusalem after his father's treasonous reign. G-d called Hezekiah the "Prince of Peace" because of the return to Jewish biblical principles and a period of peace within Jerusalem.
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Old 05-07-2019, 12:00 PM
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A son is given and HIS name shall be "mighty God". I stipulate that the Jews had no concept of the Trinity but they still knew that when messiah came He would be God.
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Old 05-07-2019, 12:42 PM
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A son is given and HIS name shall be "mighty God". I stipulate that the Jews had no concept of the Trinity but they still knew that when messiah came He would be God.
Again, you are attributing a Christian perspective and interpretation onto Isaiah 9.6.

The Jewish scriptural translation is: "For a child has been born to us, a son given to us, and the authority is upon his shoulder, and the wondrous adviser, the mighty God, the everlasting Father, called his name, "the prince of peace.""

"For a child has been born to us, a son given to us, and the authority is upon his shoulder"= Hezekiah

"and the wondrous adviser, the mighty God, the everlasting Father"=G-d

"called his name, "the prince of peace""= G-d calling Hezekiah the "Prince of Peace".

This is the Jewish translation is and this is what Jews are taught and believe. Any real Rabbi (non-messianic) can attest to this.

Christians re-translate Isaiah as: "For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace."

This fits in with the Christian belief that Jesus is G-d.

Jews do not believe that the Mashiach is a deity.
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Old 05-07-2019, 2:53 PM
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Emmanuel means God with Us. Taken en toto, since it clearly states that His title is "God with Us" and the interlinear states that the child is "Mighty God, Great Council, etc" it can and is concluded by the best theologians of the ages that messiah is the eternal God. There is no reason to undertake any other translation. Combined with Genesis 1 and John 1 it is clear that Messiah is God.
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Old 05-08-2019, 11:29 AM
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Have to agree w/ JoeGman on this one. The Jewish messiah was supposed to be a man, not a god, demi god, etc. This can be found on any Jewish site that gives an explanation of why Jews have rejected Jesus, as well as others thought to be the messiah of the Jews. For Christians to tell Jews what to believe would be like Muslims telling Christians what to believe. It doesn't work that way.
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Old 05-09-2019, 8:38 AM
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JoeGman & louie -- agreed.

If the Messiah was God then why in Hades did Isaiah call King Cyrus of Persia a Messiah? King Cyrus was a Persian emperor. He wasn't even Jewish by either ethnicity or religion. Clearly, he was just a powerful dude that Isaiah liked.

Messiahs (yes, there are a few of them) are always mortal, not divine. Among the Abrahamic religions, Christianity is the only one that allows God to be something other than one, singular, purely divine being.
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Old 05-09-2019, 9:02 AM
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Emmanuel means God with Us. Taken en toto, since it clearly states that His title is "God with Us" and the interlinear states that the child is "Mighty God, Great Council, etc" it can and is concluded by the best theologians of the ages that messiah is the eternal God. There is no reason to undertake any other translation. Combined with Genesis 1 and John 1 it is clear that Messiah is God.
There are two things that are going on here that need clarification. Using the plural form of a word in Hebrew (and even Latin-based languages) doesn't necessitate actual plurality. In French, for example, the formal "vous" is used instead of "tu" when addressing somebody higher in status or age. The same "vous" is used to address multiple people. Both can be translated as "you" but vous can also be translated as "you all." But just because you say "vous" to your boss doesn't mean that there is more than one. It's just more formal. Any Hebrew scholar I've read or spoken with has said that Elohim and the pronouns associated with Elohim in Genesis are purely to note God's greatness. At times, God is consulting with the angels or other members of his court. Remember: the God of Abraham was a divine king with a court of advisors, just as earthly kings have courts of advisors. They portrayed their God in the same manner as they portrayed their kings.

However, Elohim is the plural form of El. It usually means many gods, as in a council of gods in the ancient mythology. The ancient Hebrews didn't deny the existence of many gods, they just worshiped only one. So their old stories, like Genesis, are full of their older, pagan roots. They envisioned their god as the supreme god of all the others, not simply the only one in existence. Read some of the Canaanite myths that were found at Tel Ras Shamra and you'll find some striking similarities. I speculate that the plurality as greatness argument is a post-hoc explanation meant to backfit the theology of monotheism to a henotheistic text. But that's just my opinion.
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Old 05-09-2019, 10:26 AM
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I admit -- the documentary looks pretty funny. I think you have to appreciate the art of it all. It's too hyperbolic to take seriously -- kind of a read between the lines sort of thing. Right up there with Michael Moore films. Nothing quite like parody & humor to make a point.
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Old 05-09-2019, 5:14 PM
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Yeah. they pretty much denied the existance of other gods.
Isaiah 44:6
Thus says the Lord, the King of Israel and his Redeemer, the Lord of hosts: “I am the first and I am the last; besides me there is no god.
Isaiah 45:21
Declare and present your case; let them take counsel together! Who told this long ago? Who declared it of old? Was it not I, the Lord? And there is no other god besides me, a righteous God and a Savior; there is none besides me.

Isaiah 45:5
I am the Lord, and there is no other, besides me there is no God

Isaiah 43:10
You are my witnesses,” declares the Lord, “and my servant whom I have chosen, that you may know and believe me and understand that I am he. Before me no god was formed, nor shall there be any after me.

Psalm 86:10
For you are great and do wondrous things; you alone are God.

2 Samuel 7:22
Therefore you are great, O Lord God. For there is none like you, and there is no God besides you, according to all that we have heard with our ears.

I could go on. There is simply no room for other Gods in Judaism. So, if Elohim is plural there is another reason.
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Old 05-09-2019, 5:25 PM
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they simply fail to see that the most successful cultures in the world are based on fundamental judeo-christian beliefs, including ours.
other than japan, most non-christian dominated countries are schiffholes (outside of centers of oil money)
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Old 05-10-2019, 8:47 AM
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Yeah. they pretty much denied the existance of other gods.
Isaiah 44:6
Thus says the Lord, the King of Israel and his Redeemer, the Lord of hosts: “I am the first and I am the last; besides me there is no god.
Isaiah 45:21
Declare and present your case; let them take counsel together! Who told this long ago? Who declared it of old? Was it not I, the Lord? And there is no other god besides me, a righteous God and a Savior; there is none besides me.

Isaiah 45:5
I am the Lord, and there is no other, besides me there is no God

Isaiah 43:10
You are my witnesses,” declares the Lord, “and my servant whom I have chosen, that you may know and believe me and understand that I am he. Before me no god was formed, nor shall there be any after me.

Psalm 86:10
For you are great and do wondrous things; you alone are God.

2 Samuel 7:22
Therefore you are great, O Lord God. For there is none like you, and there is no God besides you, according to all that we have heard with our ears.

I could go on. There is simply no room for other Gods in Judaism. So, if Elohim is plural there is another reason.
With the exception of the quote from 2 Samuel, you're quoting from a very late period in the OT. The latter half of Isaiah was written after the Persian conquest of Babylon by the school of Isaiah, not Isaiah himself. Judaism was decidedly monotheist by that time. Again, another influence of the Zoroastrian religion of Persia. Before the exile, YHWH was just the greatest and most powerful of all gods, according to the Hebrews. Your quote from 2 Samuel states it perfectly: None like you, none beside you... It's not a denial of the existence of others. It's a statement of preference.

Remember, the entire priesthood (along with the nobility, the royalty and bureaucrats) was exiled to Babylon, then to Persia. Many of them served in Babylonian and Persian temples to other gods before they got to return to Israel. Priesthood was a profession, not just a religion. Doubtless, they picked up a few new ideas while they were there.

The Hebrews were polytheist first (YHWH is cool but, come on Moses, this golden calf is part of our heritage!), then henotheist (YHWH is the best of them all), then monotheist (YHWH is the only god that exists at all).

What I find very interesting is the proliferation of polytheistic fertility religions in the more remote areas. I recall seeing an inscription near two figures that translated, "To YHWH and his Asherah." In other words, there was a surviving group that changed Ba'al to YHWH and kept Asherah -- yes, to them, God must have a wife! And that wife was the chief Canaanite goddess. Seems like a good compromise to me. Sure beats the genocide that some of the priests were advocating.
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Old 05-10-2019, 11:20 AM
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I fully understand what you are saying. Their worship of other gods is what led to the Babylonian Captivity. It was God's punishment for turning on Him. But for those who never turned, there were no other gods. There was always a remnant that stayed true. They thought the pagan gods were made up. If you lump them all together then what you have stated is true. But you can't. So, the pure Hebrew religion had no other gods. Only Elohim. One God with a plural name.
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Old 05-10-2019, 4:36 PM
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Some people worry too much. In the Old Testament, Satan was a member of God's court. He was just the prosecuting attorney, so to speak. It was his job to challenge people to PROVE their loyalty. He wasn't the enemy of God nor was he the enemy of humanity. More of a legal pain than a problem. After all, if God had enemies, he wouldn't be God. And if there were challenging deities, then there would have to be more than one deity -- contra monotheism. Ironically, monotheism came only slightly before dualism. As long as Satan was part of the heavenly court, it seems that Jewish tradition was okay with there being multiple gods (God of gods, Lord of lords implies there is more than one -- henotheism, as it is called by academics). It wasn't until after YHWH became the only God that Satan became his enemy. I guess we just can't shake polytheism after all.

Zoroastrianism introduced dualism into Judaism, which was the result of the priesthood adopting some of the views of the Babylonians while they were in exile there. Then the Greeks took that up a notch with ideas about Hades. Then the Romans morphed it further to conquer pagans and nature worshipers. Satan, the devil, the adversary -- it has always been an evolving idea.
^^^ If that is your opinion, that’s one thing, fair enough.

However biblically, it is completely in scriptural error and not supported by the Christian Bible at all. I’m just stating the facts.

Satan wasn’t just there to “prove loyalty,” nor to even just be a “legal pain” (whatever that is). I think those terms merely just sugar-coat to what Jesus himself actually said about satan.

Jesus said the devil was a murderer from the BEGINNING. (John 8:44)
-nuff said right there.
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Old 05-10-2019, 4:52 PM
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I admit -- the documentary looks pretty funny. I think you have to appreciate the art of it all. It's too hyperbolic to take seriously -- kind of a read between the lines sort of thing. Right up there with Michael Moore films. Nothing quite like parody & humor to make a point.
I don’t think anything is “funny” regarding satan at all. That’s what he wants people to do. He wants people to relax and “let their hair down” so to speak. He wants society to become more laxed and careless with their spiritual guard.

To think anything involving satan is actually “funny,” “cute,” “comical” or even “clever,” then perhaps that Christian may want to recheck that there isn’t a chink (weak spot) in his/her’s “Full Armor of God” (Ephesians 6:10-18).

It also brings me to remember this passage from Jesus himself to those that always professed Jesus, but didn’t really mean it....

“Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’
-Matthew 7:22-23
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Old 05-13-2019, 7:39 AM
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I fully understand what you are saying. Their worship of other gods is what led to the Babylonian Captivity. It was God's punishment for turning on Him. But for those who never turned, there were no other gods. There was always a remnant that stayed true. They thought the pagan gods were made up. If you lump them all together then what you have stated is true. But you can't. So, the pure Hebrew religion had no other gods. Only Elohim. One God with a plural name.
That is certainly how the priesthood viewed it (after the fall of Jerusalem). Canaanite religion was their chief competition. It hurt their monopoly. As long as people were sacrificing and giving money to other temples, they weren't giving it to the Levites. They wanted to be the only game in town and the only ones to bend the ear of the royal family. Forgive me if I choose to take their perspectives with a few grains of salt. These Biblical stories happened in the real world, not some fairy tale Never-Never-Land. If you can find some scrap of archaeological or even Biblical evidence from before the fall of Jerusalem that the ancient Hebrews were monotheist, I'm open to it.

Heck, off the top of my head, I recall the Exodus story telling about how the Egyptian's gods had the power to do all sorts of things, like changing staffs into snakes. But the author of Exodus made the firm point that YHWH was just more powerful by having Moses's snake eat the others. Again, they didn't deny the existence of other gods -- merely their potency next to YHWH.

Truth be told, Solomon only had his greatness because Egypt, Assyria and every other great power at the time was in decline. Ascribing divine punishment for the sacking of Jerusalem is like saying a mouse got eaten by a cat because the gods were angry with the mouse. It completely ignores the obvious in favor of the purely speculative.

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Old 05-13-2019, 7:53 AM
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I don’t think anything is “funny” regarding satan at all. That’s what he wants people to do. He wants people to relax and “let their hair down” so to speak. He wants society to become more laxed and careless with their spiritual guard.

To think anything involving satan is actually “funny,” “cute,” “comical” or even “clever,” then perhaps that Christian may want to recheck that there isn’t a chink (weak spot) in his/her’s “Full Armor of God” (Ephesians 6:10-18).

It also brings me to remember this passage from Jesus himself to those that always professed Jesus, but didn’t really mean it....

“Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’
-Matthew 7:22-23
+1. If you look around, especially on TV, he is everywhere, prancing around pretending to be funny, entertaining, non-threatening, harmless.
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Old 05-13-2019, 8:03 AM
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I don’t think anything is “funny” regarding satan at all. That’s what he wants people to do. He wants people to relax and “let their hair down” so to speak. He wants society to become more laxed and careless with their spiritual guard.

To think anything involving satan is actually “funny,” “cute,” “comical” or even “clever,” then perhaps that Christian may want to recheck that there isn’t a chink (weak spot) in his/her’s “Full Armor of God” (Ephesians 6:10-18).

It also brings me to remember this passage from Jesus himself to those that always professed Jesus, but didn’t really mean it....

“Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’
-Matthew 7:22-23
If all that is true, then Job presents a whole host of theological problems.
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Old 05-13-2019, 8:25 AM
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+2...
QUOTE=Fastattack;22996627]+1. If you look around, especially on TV, he is everywhere, prancing around pretending to be funny, entertaining, non-threatening, harmless.[/QUOTE]
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Old 05-13-2019, 10:44 PM
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If all that is true, then Job presents a whole host of theological problems.
“Problems” Such as......????
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Old 05-15-2019, 9:36 AM
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Such as:

1. Satan and God having a sporting wager, using Job and everybody around him as pawns in their little game.

2. God never apologizes to Job for wrecking his life, torturing him and even killing people around him for pure sport. His response to Job was simply that he is God, he is a bada**, so he can do whatever he wants and Job can stuff it.

3. God must have been really insecure to take Satan's challenge at all. If an enemy of mine came to me to challenge the loyalty of my friends, I'd just kindly tell them to F# off! since their opinion doesn't matter.

4. Satan acts as God's agent in the world, gaining his explicit permission to do harmful things to people.

5. Satan wanders in to God's court with all the other angels. Something no leader of a warring faction would do without eliciting a defensive reaction by God (same as you would do to a home invader). Rather, Satan walks in and out freely as a member of God's court. That is, after all, how the ancient Hebrews saw him.

Those are a few things that come to mind that really get confusing if you think that the Satan of the New Testament is the same as the one of the Old Testament. Ideas evolve. Satan hasn't always been God's enemy. Nor has he always been acting in defiance. On the contrary, in Job, he is acting with the full authorization of a pompous and insecure God.

It is certainly worth mentioning, too, that Job is not a story that is unique to the Torah. It is a familiar story in the Levant. It was likely written after the exile, putting it in the more monotheist and more dualist context. But it is almost certainly, in its original form, from an entirely different culture with different gods. It is, in other words, a story not originally about YHWH and Satan at all but reinterpreted into an Israelite pantheon. Some scholars think that it was translated into Hebrew from some other language. More likely, the Israelites picked it up while in Babylon and then reinterpreted it based on their understanding of God at the time. If you consider the shock and horror of what their culture went through by then, then Job can even be a metaphor for all of Israel. Personally, I find this idea very humanizing. Their entire culture was trying to figure out why they, God's chosen people, were conquered & dispersed. The priests had one idea (they worshipped other gods) but the author of Job had another -- they were perfectly loyal but there were greater, cosmic forces at work. The sporting bet between God and Satan certainly comes with some theological problems but those pale in comparison to the overall problems they were dealing with at the time. I can see how Job might bring them hope of a better future ahead.

Last edited by CVShooter; 05-15-2019 at 9:38 AM..
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Old 05-15-2019, 7:12 PM
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Job understood that as a sinful man God had every right to do anything He wanted to Job. Job knew to ask for mercy and not justice. Since justice for sinners eternal punishment.
Job 13:15
Even if he slays me, I will hope in him;
I will surely defend my ways to his face!
16 Moreover, this will become my deliverance,
for no godless person would come before him.

Or as Jesus said,
Now there were some present on that occasion who told him about the Galileans whose blood Pilate had mixed with their sacrifices. 2 He answered them, “Do you think these Galileans were worse sinners than all the other Galileans, because they suffered these things? 3 No, I tell you! But unless you repent, you will all perish as well! 4 Or those eighteen who were killed when the tower in Siloam fell on them, do you think they were worse offenders than all the others who live in Jerusalem? 5 No, I tell you! But unless you repent you will all perish as well!”

No one is guiltless. All men apart from those in Christ are already condemend and can do nothing about it.
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