How to become an FFL (gun dealer) in California

[kemasa]

Based on my reading of it (it has been a long times since I filled it out), you would mark any and all of the boxes which apply to you, so as a 07FFL, I would think that you should mark the Firearms Dealer and Manufacturer. If you plan to go gunsmithing, then you would also mark that box.

Yes, it applies to you if you plan on doing business, which is required for an 01 or 07 FFL.

[MisterRabbit]

Originally Posted by kemasa

Based on my reading of it (it has been a long times since I filled it out), you would mark any and all of the boxes which apply to you, so as a 07FFL, I would think that you should mark the Firearms Dealer and Manufacturer. If you plan to go gunsmithing, then you would also mark that box.

Yes, it applies to you if you plan on doing business, which is required for an 01 or 07 FFL.

Thank you I appreciate it. I figured the boxes were to be checked. Just wasn't sure if it was planned business type or current. Figured I'd ask to prevent any kind of delay.

[mike21]

Question on the FDAS application there is a space for the Secondhand Dealers license number and a space for a Pawnbrokers license also. On top of the page it states "to begin the enrollment process in the California Firearms Dealer Acquisition System, you must complete, sign, and return the enrollment application along with a copy of your valid Secondhand Dealer or Pawnbroker license".

Does that only apply if I'm getting a secondhand dealers license, which I'm pretty sure isn't really required unless I'm planning on buying from people to resell.


Also, on the license information section, there's a license expiration date box for all the licenses including CFD number. Is that expiration January 31, 2015?

[halifax]

Yes and yes

[mike21]

Received my large capacity magazine permit today, and got my business banking account set up yesterday. Getting really close to finally being ready to sell soon. Just waiting on the state to return my info on the HSC instructor stuff so I can order certificates and rest of the HSC stuff once I get my number from them. Going to start setting up accounts with wholesalers in the next few days.

Had one questions though, do I need to fax over the NICS FFL enrollment/E-check enrollment Form, or is the background stuff done through the online DROS form through the system once I start selling firearms? I was going to fax the form over to them right now, but wanted to see if that was even needed before I proceeded.

[ugimports]

Originally Posted by mike21

Received my large capacity magazine permit today, and got my business banking account set up yesterday. Getting really close to finally being ready to sell soon. Just waiting on the state to return my info on the HSC instructor stuff so I can order certificates and rest of the HSC stuff once I get my number from them. Going to start setting up accounts with wholesalers in the next few days.

Had one questions though, do I need to fax over the NICS FFL enrollment/E-check enrollment Form, or is the background stuff done through the online DROS form through the system once I start selling firearms? I was going to fax the form over to them right now, but wanted to see if that was even needed before I proceeded.

no NICS..everything is done through our state DES/DROS system.

[mike21]

Got it. Thanks for the help. I was pretty sure it wasn't needed, but wanted to hear it from you guys. Time to start looking at setting up accounts with a few wholesalers to get started now.

[ugimports]

Originally Posted by mike21

Got it. Thanks for the help. I was pretty sure it wasn't needed, but wanted to hear it from you guys. Time to start looking at setting up accounts with a few wholesalers to get started now.

another resource for FFL specific info is fflsonly.com

[kemasa]

I would be careful with regards to the HSC certificates since it changes come 2015 and it is unclear if there will be refunds on unused certificates.

[mike21]

Yeah I dont plan on buying more than the 15 initial certificates for now. Most of my friends either have one already, or have a ccw, or are exempt from work, so I don't think I'll run through many of them initially. I'll go from there once I reach close to the 15.

[audiophil2]

Originally Posted by ugimports

no NICS..everything is done through our state DES/DROS system.

That's interesting. So a CA FFL has to fill out a DROS FORM and a 4473 only? Is it all computerized or do you have to call anyone for background checks?

[Librarian]

Originally Posted by audiophil2

That's interesting. So a CA FFL has to fill out a DROS FORM and a 4473 only? Is it all computerized or do you have to call anyone for background checks?

See http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...ckground+check

[loopy]

I've been doing weeks of research on the subject of a home ffl. I've consider ffl07. I believe I knew the answer but I'm second guessing myself... While I intended to be exempt from the itar tax because I will be doing r&d and not selling any of my own stuff, if i sell( online or to a friend) a factory guns like colt that are CA complaint I would no longer be itar exempt, correct?

[taperxz]

Is there an ATF memo for the business license issue? The city we are applying at wants the FFL first.

[ugimports]

no, but ATF will give you an FFL first. I had to do the same. Told ATF I can't show you business license until I have FFL to show city. So they gave me license and told me it's not "active" until I get them copy of Business License.

[taperxz]

Originally Posted by ugimports

no, but ATF will give you an FFL first. I had to do the same. Told ATF I can't show you business license until I have FFL to show city. So they gave me license and told me it's not "active" until I get them copy of Business License.

Interesting. It shows otherwise in this thread and i was advised by ATF to get the business license first also.

Problem: Sign a lease agreement, get FFL, and then HOPE there are no problems in getting a business license in the city where i am applying?

[ugimports]

Originally Posted by taperxz

Interesting. It shows otherwise in this thread and i was advised by ATF to get the business license first also.

Problem: Sign a lease agreement, get FFL, and then HOPE there are no problems in getting a business license in the city where i am applying?

Maybe the ATF's willingness to provide license first is case-by-case. I paid rent on my office space for over 9 months as I went through the process. I agree that you *should* get your business license first, but in my case it didn't preclude the ATF from giving me the FFL.

ATF License - 90 days
Fremont City Business License - 6 months
CA License - 30 days

So, yeah, paying for space for ~12 months with no revenue was part of my investment/business plan. I've since made up for it (that was 5 years ago).

[taperxz]

Originally Posted by ugimports

Maybe the ATF's willingness to provide license first is case-by-case. I paid rent on my office space for over 9 months as I went through the process. I agree that you *should* get your business license first, but in my case it didn't preclude the ATF from giving me the FFL.

ATF License - 90 days
Fremont City Business License - 6 months
CA License - 30 days

So, yeah, paying for space for ~12 months with no revenue was part of my investment/business plan. I've since made up for it (that was 5 years ago).

Thanks for the reply. I talked to the city attorney in Burlingame and they talked to my ATF contact. We get our license to sell firearms from the city tomorrow.

[CA Gun Laws Suck]

Does anyone know if the city of San Diego requires the business license to say "Valid for Retail Sales of Firearms" and does it take six months like other people have experienced?

[ugimports]

Originally Posted by CA Gun Laws Suck

Does anyone know if the city of San Diego requires the business license to say "Valid for Retail Sales of Firearms" and does it take six months like other people have experienced?

The requirement for "Valid for Retail Sales of Firearms" is for the ATF. If your business doesn't say that or something close to it your FFL won't be valid.

[XDmax]

Any input on how hard it is to get a FFL in Riverside county?

[Condorguns]

Not any harder than any other county.

[kemasa]

Originally Posted by ugimports

The requirement for "Valid for Retail Sales of Firearms" is for the ATF. If your business doesn't say that or something close to it your FFL won't be valid.

ATF? Or is it for the CA DOJ?

[ugimports]

Good call, I don't recall now, you might be right DOJ. Either way, city doesn't really give a crap, but the DOJ or ATF will.

[deviljon]

i couldn't find anything on this subject, hoping someone in this thread might know or have experience on it..

if i rented out an office within a warehouse (non-firearm business), basically sharing the warehouse with another business, would that be permitted when obtaining a business license "Valid for the retail sale of firearms"? would that be dependent on the city (Orange) or is that up to the CA DOJ?

a good friend of mine has a warehouse and we're looking in to converting an unused office and warehouse space in to an FFL, if that is even allowed.

[ASD1]

the "office" yes it is under YOUR control.

"Part" of a warehouse no as you do not have control of it.

There are a bunch of security requirements for the location of a FFL. (see the sticky at the top of page)

that being said if you were only storing non firearm items in the warehouse it has nothing to do with a FFL lic

So if you could keep all firearms in the "office area" it might work

[Baboosh]

Originally Posted by kemasa

ATF? Or is it for the CA DOJ?

DOJ, the ATF didn't care about any state or city regulations when issuing our license. They did follow up 90 days after issuing our license asking if we complied with all state and local laws required to obtain the FFL.

[ugimports]

Originally Posted by deviljon

i couldn't find anything on this subject, hoping someone in this thread might know or have experience on it..

if i rented out an office within a warehouse (non-firearm business), basically sharing the warehouse with another business, would that be permitted when obtaining a business license "Valid for the retail sale of firearms"? would that be dependent on the city (Orange) or is that up to the CA DOJ?

a good friend of mine has a warehouse and we're looking in to converting an unused office and warehouse space in to an FFL, if that is even allowed.

It depends.. I am in a shared office building (similar in control to what you mentioned). It will depend on your city requirements. ATF and DOJ won't care as long as you meet their security requirements and you can get the city permit.

You need to ensure:
1) How shipments will be handled
2) How you will secure your space (my landlords have a key, but not my alarm code. If they enter without my knowledge the alarm will sound)
3) Comply with any additional city requirements on your space hardening (I had to install extra precautions inside of my office space for the city to sign off)
plus whatever the city makes you do. The way your space is addressed may matter as well.
4) Clearly define what is stored in the warehouse vs. office area

If not abundantly obvious your landlord has to approve which I'm assuming is whoever owns (your friend) the warehouse. You'll need a letter signed from them to the ATF giving you permission to run the business with their knowledge.

[deviljon]

Thanks guys! The warehouse is actually not owned by my friend, it is rented and he would need to run it by the landlord before we even proceed with the business license application.

[FireCloud9]

Is it possible to obtain an FFL to provide a home based gun storage service rather than sales?

[ugimports]

Originally Posted by FireCloud9

Is it possible to obtain an FFL to provide a home based gun storage service rather than sales?

It's the same license and requirements regardless if you're doing sales so all the same rules apply. You might be able to get more lenient requirements from your local zoning (city/county) if you tell them no sales, such as if you were a gunsmith.

[Baboosh]

Can't he apply for CFD Exempt therefor no DOJ requirements.

However CFD exempt you cannot receive firearms from dealers, do DROS nor apply for any of the CA licenses.

[ugimports]

Yeah, I think that's what a gunsmith does.. The FFL part/process would be the same. So perhaps he'd save on some livescan fees and an extra $150 (forgot the price) for the CL renewal and the extra paperwork involved there.

So I retract my previous post I guess it is a little different

[Baboosh]

Plus side is he never has to deal with the DOJ. No inspections.

[FireCloud9]

Originally Posted by ugimports

It's the same license and requirements regardless if you're doing sales so all the same rules apply. You might be able to get more lenient requirements from your local zoning (city/county) if you tell them no sales, such as if you were a gunsmith.

Thanks for the response. Yes, I would imagine that it's the same license and requirements.

My concern is that I read on this thread that unless someone is in the "business" the FFL is revoked and that meant engaged in sales.

But I'm only interested in the possibility of a dedicated storage (long term, short term, temporary, etc.) service.

So I'm less concerned about the licensing requirements and more concerned as to whether my FFL would be revoked if I don't engage in sales.

Originally Posted by Baboosh

Can't he apply for CFD Exempt therefor no DOJ requirements.

However CFD exempt you cannot receive firearms from dealers, do DROS nor apply for any of the CA licenses.

And that would be fine. This would only be a firearms storage business.

Originally Posted by ugimports

Yeah, I think that's what a gunsmith does.. The FFL part/process would be the same. So perhaps he'd save on some livescan fees and an extra $150 (forgot the price) for the CL renewal and the extra paperwork involved there.

So I retract my previous post I guess it is a little different

I would agree that it may very well be the same. The question is whether I would lose the FFL if I do not engage in sales as that seems to be one of the requirements to be "in the business". So I'm wondering if I'll have to do the occasional sale even if the intent is to provide a storage service.

Originally Posted by Baboosh

Plus side is he never has to deal with the DOJ. No inspections.

Well that's certainly good to know.

[ugimports]

You are not required to do sales. Just be in the business. For example, a gun range is in the business (think Chabot). A gunsmith is in the business (most don't do sales, but may need to keep firearms overnight for work).

[CA Gun Laws Suck]

I was trying to look this up online but couldn't find anything concrete. Is there any limitations to opening a gun shop near a school? Is there a certain distance a retail store would have to be away from school or is it up to the city zoning?

[Librarian]

Originally Posted by CA Gun Laws Suck

I was trying to look this up online but couldn't find anything concrete. Is there any limitations to opening a gun shop near a school? Is there a certain distance a retail store would have to be away from school or is it up to the city zoning?

City/County - state does not care.

The Brady Bunch is cruising the state, trying to get local governments to implement a 500-foot distance from schools, parks, liquor stores, other gun stores and residential-zoned property. Your local government may have been infected.

[us against them]

I have a business where I make custom Kydex Holsters. I am thinking of getting my FFL license so that I can take and hold customers guns legally while I make their custom holster.

Would it be advisable to get an FFL? or is it like everything else here in California, Just a pain in the butt when it comes to dealing with anything gun related?

[ugimports]

Originally Posted by us against them

I have a business where I make custom Kydex Holsters. I am thinking of getting my FFL license so that I can take and hold customers guns legally while I make their custom holster.

Would it be advisable to get an FFL? or is it like everything else here in California, Just a pain in the butt when it comes to dealing with anything gun related?

If you can afford to do it and it makes sense for your business model. Depending where you try to get your FFL there could be anywhere from hundreds to thousands in new expenses.