Caldor Fire explodes

[USMCmatt]

Great...there will be more smoke in Utah because of this. Get your **** together California.

[Jason_2111]

Hell of a day yesterday... We got evacuated. Managed to get all of the guns out, plus the first dang thing I grabbed was all of my primers and powder.

We're expecting to lose the Freedom Bunker... This one is a bad one and going crazy. With God's will and some luck, maybe not... We'll just have to see what happens.

[jon94520]

Originally Posted by tuolumnejim

Its going to be a bad one, I saw the smoke plume rising from my house in Stagecoach, Nevada this morning.

Check this video its hotter than hades.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RqU8T8tkWTY&t=123s

WOW, that is roaring

[Redeyedrider]

Originally Posted by TacFan

WTF is going on with all these fires ? Has to be arson ... don't tell me it's climate change

https://twitter.com/i/status/1427826304808755208

Originally Posted by the_tunaman

Forestry mis-management

This. And climate change is real.... The climate has always been changing. I don't think anybody in their right mind would deny that.

[BrokerB]

well after a few more years of large fires we will have a few decades for no gigantic fires as all the old growth/undergrowth is burnt up. Over the last 27 years in Sacramento valley ,not until the last 6 years, have we had summers full of smoke.

[Sierra57]

Originally Posted by USMCmatt

Great...there will be more smoke in Utah because of this. Get your **** together California.

You're welcome!!

[LTC-J]

The 2am sheriff knock is a real thing and I wouldn't wish that on anyone. It is even worse when you throw in a PGE power outage. Things were okay before power outage then you get the knock.

Trying to figure out your list of "grab this ish" while you are half awake isn't a good feeling.

Originally Posted by Jason_2111

Hell of a day yesterday... We got evacuated. Managed to get all of the guns out, plus the first dang thing I grabbed was all of my primers and powder.

We're expecting to lose the Freedom Bunker... This one is a bad one and going crazy. With God's will and some luck, maybe not... We'll just have to see what happens.

Glad to see you got out. Hopefully your house makes it out.

I went the opposite approach since I don't have collectible guns: grabbed two Glock 30s and a dozen mags plus an old 22 and sks.

I was grabbing NUCs, laptops, and hard drives

[twinfin]

Originally Posted by Jason_2111

Hell of a day yesterday... We got evacuated. Managed to get all of the guns out, plus the first dang thing I grabbed was all of my primers and powder.

We're expecting to lose the Freedom Bunker... This one is a bad one and going crazy. With God's will and some luck, maybe not... We'll just have to see what happens.

Dang, that's rough news to hear. Me and Mrs. Twinfin will have you and Mrs. 2111 in our morning prayers.

Does the construction material of the freedom bunker or clearance around the compound offer any hope that you'll be spared? Clearance is one thing I've been constantly trying to improve each year since with my location, I don't expect any outside help.

God speed.

[SnipTheDog]

Originally Posted by iropem

Cali now is a “perfect storm” for these fires. Actually the whole west is intermittently but California is and always has been the wildfire glory state, increasingly so, to the death and detriment of its residents and businesses. Here is why:
Mediterranean climate with common droughts and common foehn winds all of which sets the stage for disaster.
Fire friendly fuel loading at every elevation that needs frequent low intensity fire to be healthy.
Extremely rough and rugged terrain, lots of which is inaccessible to suppress small initial attack fires regardless of aircraft.
All out fire suppression since 1910 which had led to a mess of choked forests and lots of dead component.
Crazy CRAZY CRAZY state and federal environmental laws.
Widespread limiting of prescribed fire and VMP burns.
Widespread limiting of responsible logging and grazing
Insane unabated building in historical fire corridors.
Population explosion for 30 years in wildland intermix/interface areas.
Limiting transfer of power lines underground in all intermix/interface areas.
Competition for resources when multiple starts get going which just means all the fires get bigger.

This is not an exhaustive list but is accurate IMO

the single biggest issue is corrupt policies, mismanagement and “leadership” in Sacramento for 50 years and definitely not climate change ( “climate change” does give them a good scapegoat to absolve them of responsibility and yet keeps the money flowing)

The bark beetle has killed about 30% of the forest. That's like having a 5 gallon gasoline can at the base of 30% of the trees in the forest. The forestry service could have gone in and logged out the trees, but they didn't. They're just waiting for a major fire to go through and do their job for them.
In last years Camp fire, there were no air assets to assist with drops until a full week into the fire. They just let it burn.

[SanDiego619]

Originally Posted by Jason_2111

Hell of a day yesterday... We got evacuated. Managed to get all of the guns out, plus the first dang thing I grabbed was all of my primers and powder.

We're expecting to lose the Freedom Bunker... This one is a bad one and going crazy. With God's will and some luck, maybe not... We'll just have to see what happens.

Oh no. I thought you lived in or near San Diego for some reason. I hope you come out of this unscathed. Terrible.

[Sierra57]

Originally Posted by SnipTheDog

The bark beetle has killed about 30% of the forest. That's like having a 5 gallon gasoline can at the base of 30% of the trees in the forest. The forestry service could have gone in and logged out the trees, but they didn't. They're just waiting for a major fire to go through and do their job for them.
In last years Camp fire, there were no air assets to assist with drops until a full week into the fire. They just let it burn.

The USFS, BLM, etc. are now infested with environmentalist types.

[Fear58]

Was this a PG&E power pole spark event? Lightning? Hard to watch the coverage on this... looks like a Volcano erupting....

[user120312]

Looks like air assets are on the fire this morning. IMO, much could've been saved had a similar early attack occurred before the fire exploded, as it was there was zippo over the fire until late yesterday and the cameras and helo footage showed plenty of maneuvering room, yet not even a assessment aircraft. Weird.

I saw an early interview with a resident who'd lived there for 45 years and had worked as a volunteer firefighter in the area and his initial assessment since he was near the head of the fire was campers started the original fire, which was small for a day or more. The news reporter quickly changed the subject though. I don't know whether that footage is still out there or not.

[Tango_Down]

I've never understood why they don't hit these fires hard and fast with air tankers in the beginning. Might seem overkill at the time but now that same amount is a drop in the bucket compared to what it will take to get this under control because fires grow exponentially.

[dozer wright]

Originally Posted by SnipTheDog

The bark beetle has killed about 30% of the forest. That's like having a 5 gallon gasoline can at the base of 30% of the trees in the forest. The forestry service could have gone in and logged out the trees, but they didn't. They're just waiting for a major fire to go through and do their job for them.
In last years Camp fire, there were no air assets to assist with drops until a full week into the fire. They just let it burn.

A person losing thier house or whole city dosnt come out of the State Budget.

[user120312]

Originally Posted by Tango_Down

I've never understood why they don't hit these fires hard and fast with air tankers in the beginning. Might seem overkill at the time but now that same amount is a drop in the bucket compared to what it will take to get this under control because fires grow exponentially.

A similarly distanced fire, close to Sacramento and the McClellan air attack base, but near the 80 corridor instead of the 50, started a week or so ago near Colfax, called the River Fire, and there were air assets on it almost immediately and it was knocked down quick. That's what doesn't make sense, they're right on top of it and the weather was conducive to attack.

[LTC-J]

Originally Posted by Tango_Down

I've never understood why they don't hit these fires hard and fast with air tankers in the beginning. Might seem overkill at the time but now that same amount is a drop in the bucket compared to what it will take to get this under control because fires grow exponentially.

Not speaking from any intimate knowledge beyond Monday morning QBing but...

There are enough fires going that air support and ground personnel is overly taxed. You've got the Camp fire a hair NW. I forget the name of the one kind of south.

Also things change very quick especially in the foothills. With Caldor, it went from "mild" at 6500 acres to ~40k in twelve hours I'm not hugely nearby it but my location was badly windy during that time.

[Misterclick]

The difference between the start of this fire and the river fire (as I understand it) is smoke and flight conditions. The wind was blowing with the river fire allowing the smoke to dissipate but with the Caldor wind was calm early causing heavy smoke and grounding the tankers from dropping a retardant box on it.

[iropem]

Originally Posted by Sierra57

There has been a lot of home building all up and down the Sierras over the last 50 years. I have heard people (usually coastal urbanistas) say that others should not be allowed to live in the mountains in outlying areas. My reply is that people should not be allowed to live in areas where there is the potential for a major earthquake, which leaves them like " Uuuuuuhhh....."

Going further with that mindset, we should not allow building in areas that are prone to hurricanes, tornadoes, flooding, blizzards, landslides, etc. That eliminates about 99% of the US.

I agree with your sentiments. I don’t have a dog in the fight about the building going on….hell I left California after I retired because it’s such a **** show. People should live where they want to live. It just comes with risk certainly made worse by poor policy.

[Defy Concealment]

Originally Posted by Misterclick

The difference between the start of this fire and the river fire (as I understand it) is smoke and flight conditions. The wind was blowing with the river fire allowing the smoke to dissipate but with the Caldor wind was calm early causing heavy smoke and grounding the tankers from dropping a retardant box on it.

This is my understanding. At least its what Ive been hearing from the media and my fire fighter friends.

There was so much smoke that the tankers couldnt get anywhere near it untill it calmed down. And they couldn't get much boots on the ground because of the terrain so they have been concentrating on evacuation rather than fighting.

Conditions have since changed and they have a few planes in the air, and more coming in from Sac. Hope everyone stays safe.

[Cali-Glock]

Originally Posted by Fear58

Was this a PG&E power pole spark event? Lightning? Hard to watch the coverage on this... looks like a Volcano erupting....

Unknown.

Lots of stupid rumors, but that is all they are - speculation and rumors. I am 99.999% sure there are no power lines anywhere near where fire originated. Speculation focuses on campers, tweaker-"campers", lightning strike, but I have not seen nor heard anything to substantiate any of it.

It started in the El Dorado National Forest south-east of Grizzly Flats. It started small and the powers to be kept telling everyone not to worry about it. It stayed in the 30-45 acre range for a couple days.

It then started down the canyon of the Middle Fork of the Consumnes - mostly on the southern side, then jumped to the north side and ran along the canyon below Grizzly Flats and the neighboring area growing to some 700 odd acres.

Then it blew up in the we hours Monday night and blew through the community.

Just saw they are saying the fire is 50,000+ acres... thus far the estimates have been behind the curve and conservative (low).

I also saw there was a flare up this morning on Consumnes Mine Road which is **just** outside Grizzly Flats proper - like on the zip code line - it is the same community but legally no longer Grizzly Flats but rather Somerset. Hopefully they snuffed that out quickly.

On a positive note - some homes did survive. Someone just told me there were only 12 building standing in Grizzly Flats proper but my impression and hope is that the number is not that low.

Here is a friends house that survived inside Grizzly Flats proper - praise God!!! You can see one or two other buildings in the background which gives me hope that we have a fair number of houses on the west end of Grizzly that survived.

[RNE228]

https://yubanet.com/fires/ is a good resource.

Added up all the personnel numbers; there are 10,120 on northern California fires right now.

I know El Dorado County Fire has people and engines on Strike teams at the Dixie fire; no idea if they are recalling them. This fire is burning thru their district(I'm on east end of district). Spent a lot of years on volunteer engines in the area.

Originally Posted by LTC-J

There are enough fires going that air support and ground personnel is overly taxed.

[Deadon]

Is it winter yet? This summer has been a complete wasteland.
Feel for all of those that are in harms way. Stay safe guys.

[not-fishing]

Look at the history of Wildfires in California then look at the largest fires ever.
You'll notice that damn near all of them are in the last 20 years (and PG & E has been at it since 1905).
One guess what happened in the 1970's................

[RNE228]

I work in Folsom Prairie City/H50. Watching the C130/MAFF's go over regularly right now.

T914 10Tanker, Neptune Avro, and Erricson T102 have been coming over too.

Flightradar24 showing a bunch of planes working right now, on the southern side of the fire.

Originally Posted by Defy Concealment

Conditions have since changed and they have a few planes in the air, and more coming in from Sac. Hope everyone stays safe.

[inthemountains]

Originally Posted by user120312

A similarly distanced fire, close to Sacramento and the McClellan air attack base, but near the 80 corridor instead of the 50, started a week or so ago near Colfax, called the River Fire, and there were air assets on it almost immediately and it was knocked down quick. That's what doesn't make sense, they're right on top of it and the weather was conducive to attack.

That fire started small and with in an hour or so was getting real big. I was at the airport watching planes and it was maybe a 10 minutes from take off to drop to landing again, I think the fire was 6 miles from the airport as the crow flies.

They did such a good job with air attack that the nighttime dozer crews made a lot of progress, still burned a 100 or so houses.

[Cali-Glock]

Originally Posted by Defy Concealment

This is my understanding. At least its what Ive been hearing from the media and my fire fighter friends.

There was so much smoke that the tankers couldnt get anywhere near it untill it calmed down. And they couldn't get much boots on the ground because of the terrain so they have been concentrating on evacuation rather than fighting.

Conditions have since changed and they have a few planes in the air, and more coming in from Sac. Hope everyone stays safe.

Helicopters were running all day on Sunday and Monday as I recall. I forget, but I think planes could not go up Sunday but did go up on Monday? My memory is hazy and I am far too tired.

The area where the fire originated and certainly down inside the canyon is very inhospitable.

From what I witnessed and what I have heard, fire crews did a remarkable job Monday night/Tuesday morning given the circumstances.

[RNE228]

I work in Folsom Prairie City/H50. Watching the C130/MAFF's go over regularly right now.

T914 10Tanker, Neptune Avro, and Erricson T102 have been coming over too.

Flightradar24 showing a bunch of planes working right now, on the southern side of the fire.

Originally Posted by Defy Concealment

Conditions have since changed and they have a few planes in the air, and more coming in from Sac. Hope everyone stays safe.

[johncage]

what happens if you built a home made of stone, clay, and concrete with maybe nomex shutters for the window, and clear out all trees surrounding the house, build a moat, etc would it survive the fire?

[user120312]

Originally Posted by johncage

what happens if you built a home made of stone, clay, and concrete with maybe nomex shutters for the window, and clear out all trees surrounding the house, build a moat, etc would it survive the fire?

There's been good examples seen on video in SoCal fires where the houses themselves are clad in fire-resistant materials but the tricky part is keeping the heat, sparks, and embers from getting into combustible areas since the houses are generally not built and appointed entirely of fire-resistant material. Vents are a common pathway. Also, if the outside gets sufficient heat exposure the combustible materials inside will reach that magic number and poof. It could be nothing more than drapes on a window or a chair, or wood framing in the attic.
However, I would like to know what this outhouse is built out of, this picture taken from the Dixie Fire. Everything around it is smoked....


Here's a sobering short clip from the night of August 16 on Golden Aspen Court in Grizzly Flats...Ring doorbell video. It was the audio that got me.
https://twitter.com/GuyTucker27/stat...06798979514368
ETA, also found some video of the fire when it was 'small', on 8/15, posted by the Mountain Democrat....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Sp7aqYyjsA

IDK, flame lengths like that in tall dry timber? Small? OK. Also, two days before it exploded.

[kalalp]

https://www.sfgate.com/renotahoe/art...t-16392428.php

There are arsonists of all kinds up in the hills. Lots of tweakers. In my neighborhood in the foothills as well.

[RNE228]

Lot of air resources on Dixie fire today too. McClellan is BUSY today

[RNE228]

Too bad GST944-747 got repurposed to a freighter...

[realbadlarry]

They close the whole El Dorado national forest until the end of September absolute power corrupts absolutely

[Cali-Glock]

Originally Posted by Sierra57

There has been a lot of home building all up and down the Sierras over the last 50 years. I have heard people (usually coastal urbanistas) say that others should not be allowed to live in the mountains in outlying areas. My reply is that people should not be allowed to live in areas where there is the potential for a major earthquake, which leaves them like " Uuuuuuhhh....."

Going further with that mindset, we should not allow building in areas that are prone to hurricanes, tornadoes, flooding, blizzards, landslides, etc. That eliminates about 99% of the US.

The Sierras and foothills used to have FAR fewer trees. We suppress the natural fires that normally keep the forest thin, while keeping people from logging, and failing to otherwise maintain the forest so everything gets grossly overgrown.

Fire in Sierra Nevada Forests: A Photographic Interpretation of Ecological Change Since 1849 is an amazing book. They dug up a ton of photos from the 1800s and then replicated the photos - in many cases it is NIGHT AND DAY difference in the forest with the numbers, size and density far greater today.

[Cali-Glock]

Just got off the phone with a friend who is up there now. He talked his way past the Sheriff Deputies. Supposedly they are letting (some) people as far as Perts (now Grizzlys Pub & Grub.) My friend is stopped at the helipad and is supposed to be taking some photos to text me - he confirmed there is a flume of smoke out on Consumes Mine Road.

He also confirmed a bunch of other homes still standing in GF - giving me the names of a half dozen or so people scattered across the park whose homes are still standing.

[LTC-J]

Originally Posted by realbadlarry

They close the whole El Dorado national forest until the end of September absolute power corrupts absolutely

You are missing a key important part to the closure: there isn't enough staff to serve people who have issues out in EDNF.

As an added bonus, a lot of EDNF is under evacuations(mandatory and voluntary)

Then there are the idiot flat landers/arsonists coming up from the Bay Area starting fires. Look up the Fremont methhead that EDSO caught late last week starting a fire. The article I saw wasn't clear if it was arsonist behavior or just a retarded methhead not doing safe fire behavior... never mind the fact that camp fires in wilderness areas were shut down.

[ViPER395]

I was camping Friday night up by the Mormon Emigrant Trail. There was a double strike of lightning to the southwest toward the Caldor region around 10pm.

Where the fire started is super steep canyon. That Dogtown creek canyon along caldor road and the canyon across (middle dry creek and eventually middle fk cosumnes) is super steep as well with a high ridge in the middle (big mountain ridge).

Im guessing that lightning hit a tree Friday night and it smoldered all night and into the afternoon of the 14th and the tree probably fell at some point and spread embers all across the forest floor.

There is about a foot of pine needles consistently across the forest floor along that area of Caldor, Leoni Meadows, and Elkins Flat areas. A lot of it is totally overgrown and due for this.

My dad and I used to extensively hunt the Caldor Road before it because overgrown and rutted from motorcycles (it was originally a railroad grade) and he said YEARS ago that it was ready for a forest fire.

[wpage]

Total mismanagement by liberals and environmental fools.

[SomeGuy75]

I’m working in Placerville today, they are setting up preliminary plans to evacuate the hospital if it starts heading this way. It’s already close. Ash falling.