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National 2nd Amend. Political & Legal Discussion Discuss national gun rights and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #41  
Old 06-09-2021, 3:13 PM
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"But, but I'm not a single issue voter"
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  #42  
Old 06-09-2021, 3:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gobler View Post
So, after reading this pile 'o ****. Watching several YouTube gun channels and reading threads here.. there may be 3 million+ braced pistols in the wylde.. this does not include actual SBR's and SBS already owned; if the AFT designated these as SBR/SBS this could have them fall under the "In common use" category.. combine the Miller and Heller decisions (hopefully SCOTUS takes Miller) we may see the end of the bulk NFA crap.
GOA was saying a congressional report estimated 10-40 millions braces sold.
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  #43  
Old 06-09-2021, 5:33 PM
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According to Heller, common use is the standard. As a government entity they should be following the law. By their own research and data there are millions of braces out there in circulation. so they cant be outlawed.

Also, without grandfathering in, Californians are essential being forced to lose/ or have taken thier property by the government. We are not able to NFA the item. So grandfathering is the only option since they are not offering compensation (at $236 a pop - their accounting).

This really seems like more of a marketing scheme as they are losing tax stamp money.
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  #44  
Old 06-09-2021, 5:37 PM
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Originally Posted by mit31 View Post
I saw that one, but didn't notice anything about the tax. I thought it was just about changing the rules on the arm braces. My bad if it's in there.
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  #45  
Old 06-09-2021, 5:39 PM
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Originally Posted by furyous68 View Post
I saw that one, but didn't notice anything about the tax. I thought it was just about changing the rules on the arm braces. My bad if it's in there.
Well.... changing the rule is what makes it fall into the NFA, which necessitates the tax.
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  #46  
Old 06-10-2021, 7:18 AM
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Public comments can now be submitted at https://www.federalregister.gov/docu...s#open-comment or at https://www.regulations.gov/commento...2021-0002-0001
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  #47  
Old 06-10-2021, 7:51 AM
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Default ATF proposed rules on braces - June 7/2021

Can someone pin the GOA’s analysis and talking points to the top of this thread so everyone can find them? Remember, that patriots sent the Declaration of Independence to a king knowing it was potentially a death sentence, so the least we can do is submit a public comment to the ATF. Just be professional and know that MSM can probably FOIA your comment and release it publicly. We need to show the ATF that these are items in common use for lawful purposes and should not be NFA’d.


Here is the GOA comment language:
https://www.gunowners.org/comment-on...pistol-braces/

Last edited by Bete Noire; 06-10-2021 at 10:21 AM..
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  #48  
Old 06-10-2021, 11:10 AM
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They are reverse engineering us into felons with this nonsensical points worksheet. And the big question is, what's next - where does it end?

If this rule is published, I hope our gun rights groups file for emergency injunction. Hopefully they are already working on it in case we need it.
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  #49  
Old 06-10-2021, 11:53 AM
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The page is no longer there.. ? me thinks shenanigans are afoot..
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  #50  
Old 06-10-2021, 12:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gobler View Post
So, after reading this pile 'o ****. Watching several YouTube gun channels and reading threads here.. there may be 3 million+ braced pistols in the wylde.. this does not include actual SBR's and SBS already owned; if the AFT designated these as SBR/SBS this could have them fall under the "In common use" category.. combine the Miller and Heller decisions (hopefully SCOTUS takes Miller) we may see the end of the bulk NFA crap.
This is exactly what I was thinking. the AFT is about to shoot themselves in the pooper pretty hard. If they're saying "Hey, these have been SBRs all along, not our fault you didn't know", that means that 10s of millions of SBRs have been sold and are now out there in the wild.



So, in essence, we have:



- ~20,000,000 new unregistered SBRs (plus the registered ones)

- No increase in crime

- No real distinctions between regular, common rifles and these new SBRs



= In common use for lawful purposes = potential disaster for the AFT (& NFA) in court, preferably in front of someone like Judge Benitez



But, the hand with the turd in it is filling up faster than the one with my wishes.

ETA: Link to letter from TX AG to DOJ & ATF sent yesterday. He cites the congressional study that came up with the 10-40 million number.

https://www.texasattorneygeneral.gov...very&utm_term=

Last edited by selfshrevident; 06-10-2021 at 12:27 PM..
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  #51  
Old 06-10-2021, 3:12 PM
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Here's some good instruction from the FPC regarding how one should submit comments to the ATF.
https://www.firearmspolicy.org/save-the-braces
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  #52  
Old 06-10-2021, 3:18 PM
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Thanks all for the updates on this thread, +1 here for sending in a comment.
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  #53  
Old 06-11-2021, 6:55 AM
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Quote:
ATF may not consider, or respond to, comments that do not meet these requirements or comments containing excessive profanity."
So some profanity is ok?

Question in the FPC site:

Quote:
According to the ATF: "All comments should reference this document's docket number ATF 2021R-08, be legible, and include the commenter
In the Gunowerorg:

Quote:
ATTN: Docket Number ATF 2020R-10

To: Office of Regulatory Affairs
So which is it, R-08 or R-10?

Fed Register comment site:

Quote:
Instructions: All submissions received should include the agency name and docket number (ATF 2021R-08) for this notice of proposed rulemaking. All
Looks like it is R-08. Someone may want to let Gunowners.org folks know or everyone who copy and pasted their comment with the template will get their comments thrown out.

Last edited by walmart_ar15; 06-11-2021 at 7:09 AM.. Reason: found the answer
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  #54  
Old 06-14-2021, 8:39 AM
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Banning pistol braces, adding fins to the back of a pistol grip, making it hard to take the magazine out of a gun... all akin to filling in the holes on everyone's steering wheels "to prevent dangerous drunk drivers from killing innocent people." When you ask, "Well how do I drive to work?" the response will be, "Shut up, racist!"
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  #55  
Old 06-14-2021, 9:50 AM
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Smh at all the brace owners who thought the SBR loophole (and yes, you all knowingly bought these as a work around the law) would never be addressed.
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  #56  
Old 06-14-2021, 4:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OCEquestrian View Post
Smh at all the brace owners who thought the SBR loophole (and yes, you all knowingly bought these as a work around the law) would never be addressed.
Never needed a brace for the SBR workaround... Phase 5 pistol tube with padding for a good check weld worked for me until I was able to leave CA and get tax stamps.
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  #57  
Old 06-14-2021, 5:15 PM
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so is a bi pod a vertical foregrip loophole
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  #58  
Old 06-14-2021, 5:18 PM
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Originally Posted by OCEquestrian View Post
Smh at all the brace owners who thought the SBR loophole (and yes, you all knowingly bought these as a work around the law) would never be addressed.
Maybe buying the braces is actually part of making them in common use for non-criminal conduct thus weakening the NFA arguments.

I dunno, I guess we should just comply with the whims of our masters and Franklin Armory should give up ways of making ARs and other arms enjoyable in California. We should submit to our chains.
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  #59  
Old 06-14-2021, 5:39 PM
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so is a bi pod a vertical foregrip loophole
Hmmmmm...
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  #60  
Old 06-14-2021, 6:43 PM
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Loophole this, loophole that, question is letter of the law, and why law abiding gun owners should have to submit themselves with nfa, When in reality you want your cake, but can't accept that other may eat something diffrent. Should we call featureless a loophole, or even mag latches loopholes, yet alone bullet buttons loopholes. I call it all unconstitutional. Choosing to change the rules set out prior to set and match is tyranny. Besides who's side are you on anyways? The nfa should not exist.

Last edited by slicksetter; 06-14-2021 at 6:46 PM..
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  #61  
Old 06-16-2021, 2:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OCEquestrian View Post
Smh at all the brace owners who thought the SBR loophole (and yes, you all knowingly bought these as a work around the law) would never be addressed.
No, but they could always hope.
So if this goes into effect, what are your thoughts on a fee waiver and expedited processing of the application? PA sent me an email that the one I want is back in stock.
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  #62  
Old 06-16-2021, 2:32 PM
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Originally Posted by BAJ475 View Post
No, but they could always hope.
So if this goes into effect, what are your thoughts on a fee waiver and expedited processing of the application? PA sent me an email that the one I want is back in stock.
I have no idea... never had an interest in an SBR for several reasons.
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  #63  
Old 06-16-2021, 9:29 PM
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I have no idea... never had an interest in an SBR for several reasons.
Is one of those reasons that you have never shot one? If so, if you ever get to the CDA area of Idaho, send me a message and we can go shooting.
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  #64  
Old 06-17-2021, 11:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OCEquestrian View Post
Smh at all the brace owners who thought the SBR loophole (and yes, you all knowingly bought these as a work around the law) would never be addressed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by OCEquestrian View Post
I have no idea... never had an interest in an SBR for several reasons.
OCEquestrian,
It sounds like you and I probably have similar thoughts about SBRs but I condemn your statement beginning with “Smh at all the. . .”

It is harmful to the 2A movement and all gun owners.

Gun owners who claim to be 2A advocates should stand together and support one another, not antagonize certain subsets of our group just because one doesn’t personally enjoy shooting/owning a particular type of firearm. ”Shall not be infringed” is not something we can afford to be selectively supportive of.

Let’s change the nouns and see how your statement sounds:
Quote:
Originally Posted by OCEquestrian View Post
Smh at all the brace mini-14 owners who thought the SBR assault weapon features loophole (and yes, you all knowingly bought these as a work around the law) would never be addressed.
or how about this one after the goal posts are moved a bit further:
Quote:
Originally Posted by OCEquestrian View Post
Smh at all the brace lever-action owners who thought the SBR semiautomatic loophole (and yes, you all knowingly bought these as a work around the law) would never be addressed.
You are a respected and prolific member of our community. Be supportive. I own neither a braced pistol nor a PMF but I’ll be sending in my strong criticism of both ATF 2021R-08 and ATF 2021R-05.
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  #65  
Old 06-18-2021, 11:12 AM
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Can anyone speak to the repercussions of this passing for those in CA where presumably no one will be able to work through NFA processes to register as an SBR?

Or will the person just need to remove the brace completely, in which case the pistol will not fall under this worksheet so they'd have a bare buffer tube? If they do that can they still have accessories like a red dot or hand stop?

I have been considering purchasing an AR Pistol and have watched basically every video on this new rule and cannot understand the majority of it(which is obviously the problem). Should I hold off on this purchase until some of this becomes more clear?

Strong first post, I know, thanks for the help!

Last edited by JoeMan; 06-18-2021 at 11:50 AM..
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  #66  
Old 06-18-2021, 9:28 PM
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Not understanding the worksheet is a feature, not a bug.
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  #67  
Old 06-18-2021, 9:53 PM
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I don't own a brace or even an AR for that matter. That said making accessories illegal should fall with elected representatives, not appointed heads of departments.
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  #68  
Old 06-19-2021, 5:33 AM
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Absolutely, 100% arbitrary BS.
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