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  #1  
Old 12-26-2020, 3:35 PM
Vangster Vangster is offline
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Default My range officer says registered BBAW is illegal

Can some help me with this? I took my registered BBAW to the range today. The range officer came by and told me that my bb AR15 was not legal. I told him and showed him a copy of my registration paperwork issued from the state of California. He said that the registration paperwork was no longer valid and that I needed to either go featureless or buy a new mag lock device that requires the action to be open to change out the magazine. Is this guy spreading FUD or did I miss some current changes in the law? He went on to say that the legislators realized that when they allowed this last round of registration for BB equipped AR15’s people were getting around it by removing their BB and using large capacity magazines, so that’s why the retracted the registration and so now my registration paperwork from the state meant nothing and I’m out of compliance. Is he full of bs? Could the state really do this after I followed the law? Note, my gun was BB equipped and I am only using 10 round pmags.
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  #2  
Old 12-26-2020, 3:44 PM
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He’s full of BS. The question is if he disallowed you from shooting it.

Where was this?


.
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  #3  
Old 12-26-2020, 3:47 PM
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He didn’t disallow me from shooting, but I was concerned enough to get home and post it on here to see what some of you who are in the know regarding these crazy laws think.
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Old 12-26-2020, 3:57 PM
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This is distressing. The OP went to the effort and is trying to comply with laws. However, the laws have become complex enough that the OP gets concerned because another person who is involved with the shooting sports has it wrong.
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Old 12-26-2020, 4:00 PM
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OP, let us know what range, or at least what area. I would like to show up with a couple of my RAW's. No bullet buttons, and I use LCM's.
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Old 12-26-2020, 4:00 PM
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Gun counter guys, RSOs, and gun trainers rarely know the laws. They hear something from someone who heard it from someone else or just pull it out of their backside as they go along.

Yours is registered so it is legal. That is the reason for registration. Registered ones are legal, non-registered ones are not legal.
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  #7  
Old 12-26-2020, 4:04 PM
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I bet he works part time as a range officer and part time as a turners counter guy but knows all. FUD!!!
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Old 12-26-2020, 4:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PaperTarget View Post
This is distressing. The OP went to the effort and is trying to comply with laws. However, the laws have become complex enough that the OP gets concerned because another person who is involved with the shooting sports has it wrong.
http://www.thegunmag.com/california%...federal-court/

This was from when the laws were easier to decieferand still this man was arrested twice for the same gun that the police wrongly thought was an assault weapon.

Harris was the AG then. The will use the ATF to go after people like we have never seen.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wherryj View Post
I am a physician. I am held to being "the expert" in medicine. I can't fall back on feigned ignorance and the statement that the patient should have known better than I. When an officer "can't be expected to know the entire penal code", but a citizen is held to "ignorance is no excuse", this is equivalent to ME being able to sue my patient for my own malpractice-after all, the patient should have known better, right?
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Old 12-26-2020, 4:07 PM
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This was at the Visalia sportsman association range, the RSO was nice, I think he had good intentions, but I just started to second guess myself into thinking was there a recent change that I was unaware of and am I breaking the law now? He did tell me to research it more. Thanks everyone for confirming that registered BBAW’s are still legal.
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  #10  
Old 12-26-2020, 5:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chevy2Nova View Post
I bet he works part time as a range officer and part time as a turners counter guy but knows all.

FUD!!!
This!
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  #11  
Old 12-26-2020, 5:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vangster View Post
Can some help me with this? I took my registered BBAW to the range today.

The range officer came by and told me that my bb AR15 was not legal.

I told him and showed him a copy of my registration paperwork issued from the state of California. He said that the registration paperwork was no longer valid and that I needed to either go featureless or buy a new mag lock device that requires the action to be open to change out the magazine. Is this guy spreading FUD or did I miss some current changes in the law?

He went on to say that the legislators realized that when they allowed this last round of registration for BB equipped AR15’s people were getting around it by removing their BB and using large capacity magazines, so that’s why the retracted the registration and so now my registration paperwork from the state meant nothing and I’m out of compliance.
Wow.

Presuming you registered under PC 30900(b)(1) -
Quote:
(b) (1) Any person who, from January 1, 2001, to December 31, 2016, inclusive, lawfully possessed an assault weapon that does not have a fixed magazine, as defined in Section 30515, including those weapons with an ammunition feeding device that can be readily removed from the firearm with the use of a tool, shall register the firearm before July 1, 2018, but not before the effective date of the regulations adopted pursuant to paragraph (5), with the department pursuant to those procedures that the department may establish by regulation pursuant to paragraph (5).
- which seems pretty likely since you say "my bb AR15" then PC 30680 applies to you with respect to that rifle:
Quote:
30680.

Section 30605
Quote:
30605.

(a) Any person who, within this state, possesses any assault weapon, except as provided in this chapter, shall be punished by imprisonment in a county jail for a period not exceeding one year, or by imprisonment pursuant to subdivision (h) of Section 1170.
does not apply to the possession of an assault weapon by a person who has possessed the assault weapon prior to January 1, 2017, if all of the following are applicable:

(a) Prior to January 1, 2017, the person was eligible to register that assault weapon pursuant to subdivision (b) of Section 30900.

(b) The person lawfully possessed that assault weapon prior to January 1, 2017.

(c) The person registers the assault weapon by July 1, 2018, in accordance with subdivision (b) of Section 30900.
No changes to that.

People could indeed get "around it by removing their BB and using large capacity magazines" if and only if they also converted their rifles to featureless (principally no pistolgrip and fixed stock); in 2020, featureless semi-automatic centerfire rifles remain legal.
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Last edited by Robo Cabinetguy; 12-26-2020 at 8:33 PM..
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  #12  
Old 12-26-2020, 6:30 PM
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He's an idiot, maliciously fabricating and spreading lies, or both. Out him, and the business, and go on about your day.
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  #13  
Old 12-26-2020, 7:06 PM
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How could he get something so wrong like that? Someone blew some strange smoke up his you know. Completely wrong, someone gave him big time FUD.
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  #14  
Old 12-26-2020, 7:14 PM
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I’m confused by the OP

The registration- is that the DOJ registration letter you received after you voluntarily went into the CFARS system, uploaded the firearm info, uploaded 4 pictures, etc. And then the DOJ sent you a letter will all of your now registered assault weapons?


Or
Is the paperwork from when you purchased the firearm?
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  #15  
Old 12-26-2020, 7:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vangster View Post
This was at the Visalia sportsman association range, the RSO was nice, I think he had good intentions, but I just started to second guess myself into thinking was there a recent change that I was unaware of and am I breaking the law now? He did tell me to research it more. Thanks everyone for confirming that registered BBAW’s are still legal.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArachnidCabinetguy View Post
He's an idiot, maliciously fabricating and spreading lies, or both. Out him, and the business, and go on about your day.
He did. See above. No point in outing the RSO; maybe just re-educating the range to help those who may not be aware.

With the complexity of CA gun laws, I wouldn’t expect everyone working at a range know it all.
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  #16  
Old 12-26-2020, 7:30 PM
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What a mess...my condolences.
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  #17  
Old 12-26-2020, 7:55 PM
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A RSO should be functioning as a safety officer, not an attorney.
If they can see past the horizon of their own belly, they should be on the lookout for unsafe gun handling.
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  #18  
Old 12-26-2020, 8:09 PM
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Glad my range said its not their job to enforce laws...
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Old 12-26-2020, 9:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vangster View Post
This was at the Visalia sportsman association range, the RSO was nice, I think he had good intentions, but I just started to second guess myself into thinking was there a recent change that I was unaware of and am I breaking the law now? He did tell me to research it more. Thanks everyone for confirming that registered BBAW’s are still legal.
I would have Karen'd the hell out of him lol. Seriously.
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  #20  
Old 12-26-2020, 9:32 PM
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Know the law enough to confidently tell the FUDs to kindly keep their own misunderstanding to themselves.


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Old 12-26-2020, 9:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArachnidCabinetguy View Post
He's an idiot, maliciously fabricating and spreading lies, or both. Out him, and the business, and go on about your day.
He is an idiot but I’m not sure he’s wrong. IIRC, you can only use a BBRAW at locations where you have permission to use it.
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Old 12-26-2020, 9:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 9mmCabinetguy View Post
He is an idiot but I’m not sure he’s wrong. IIRC, you can only use a BBRAW at locations where you have permission to use it.

I’m not sure that’s the case unless the rules of the facility do not allow them specifically then you may not be allowed to shoot it there. A facility can restrict behaviors at the range they choose without recourse. But permission to shoot it does not have to be explicitly given.


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  #23  
Old 12-26-2020, 10:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lordmorgul View Post
I’m not sure that’s the case unless the rules of the facility do not allow them specifically then you may not be allowed to shoot it there. A facility can restrict behaviors at the range they choose without recourse. But permission to shoot it does not have to be explicitly given.


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Seems right - here's the PC
Quote:
30945.

Unless a permit allowing additional uses is first obtained under Section 31000, a person who has registered an assault weapon or registered a .50 BMG rifle under this article may possess it only under any of the following conditions:

(a) At that person’s residence, place of business, or other property owned by that person, or on property owned by another with the owner’s express permission.

(b) While on the premises of a target range of a public or private club or organization organized for the purpose of practicing shooting at targets.

(c) While on a target range that holds a regulatory or business license for the purpose of practicing shooting at that target range.

(d) While on the premises of a shooting club that is licensed pursuant to the Fish and Game Code.

(e) While attending any exhibition, display, or educational project that is about firearms and that is sponsored by, conducted under the auspices of, or approved by a law enforcement agency or a nationally or state recognized entity that fosters proficiency in, or promotes education about, firearms.

(f) While on publicly owned land, if the possession and use of a firearm described in Section 30510, 30515, 30520, or 30530, is specifically permitted by the managing agency of the land.

(g) While transporting the assault weapon or .50 BMG rifle between any of the places mentioned in this section, or to any licensed gun dealer, for servicing or repair pursuant to Section 31050, if the assault weapon is transported as required by Sections 16850 and 25610.30945.
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  #24  
Old 12-26-2020, 10:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 9mmCabinetguy View Post
He is an idiot but I’m not sure he’s wrong. IIRC, you can only use a BBRAW at locations where you have permission to use it.
You're kinda close. Please check out Penal Code section 30945 which contains the restriction on where an RAW may be possessed. Here is the text:

"Unless a permit allowing additional uses is first obtained under Section 31000, a person who has registered an assault weapon or registered a .50 BMG rifle under this article may possess it only under any of the following conditions:
(a) At that person’s residence, place of business, or other property owned by that person, or on property owned by another with the owner’s express permission.
(b) While on the premises of a target range of a public or private club or organization organized for the purpose of practicing shooting at targets.
(c) While on a target range that holds a regulatory or business license for the purpose of practicing shooting at that target range.
(d) While on the premises of a shooting club that is licensed pursuant to the Fish and Game Code.
(e) While attending any exhibition, display, or educational project that is about firearms and that is sponsored by, conducted under the auspices of, or approved by a law enforcement agency or a nationally or state recognized entity that fosters proficiency in, or promotes education about, firearms.
(f) While on publicly owned land, if the possession and use of a firearm described in Section 30510, 30515, 30520, or 30530, is specifically permitted by the managing agency of the land.
(g) While transporting the assault weapon or .50 BMG rifle between any of the places mentioned in this section, or to any licensed gun dealer, for servicing or repair pursuant to Section 31050, if the assault weapon is transported as required by Sections 16850 and 25610."

The possession on "property owned by another" does require permission under subparagraph (a).

However the possession upon a target range does not include the requirement for permission under subparagraphs (b), (c), and (d).

POSTSCRIPT - And once again, Librarian has beat me to the punch while I was typing..................
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Last edited by RickD427; 12-27-2020 at 9:44 AM..
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  #25  
Old 12-27-2020, 2:03 AM
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3095 (b) doesn’t call for permission, so RSO is an idiot and I’m just ignorant.
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Old 12-27-2020, 2:38 AM
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OP, that dude needs to find a new job...

Carry on!
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Old 12-27-2020, 4:55 AM
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Want to hear 7 wrong answers about any question to do with guns or gun laws? Ask any 4 people at a gun shop or shooting range.
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Old 12-27-2020, 9:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vangster View Post
Can some help me with this? I took my registered BBAW to the range today. The range officer came by and told me that my bb AR15 was not legal. I told him and showed him a copy of my registration paperwork issued from the state of California. He said that the registration paperwork was no longer valid and that I needed to either go featureless or buy a new mag lock device that requires the action to be open to change out the magazine. Is this guy spreading FUD or did I miss some current changes in the law? He went on to say that the legislators realized that when they allowed this last round of registration for BB equipped AR15’s people were getting around it by removing their BB and using large capacity magazines, so that’s why the retracted the registration and so now my registration paperwork from the state meant nothing and I’m out of compliance. Is he full of bs? Could the state really do this after I followed the law? Note, my gun was BB equipped and I am only using 10 round pmags.
Is your registration paperwork the paperwork the state mailed you after you self registered a rifle you already had possession of? Or is it the store copy of Dros fro when you originally purchased the rifle? It is important to be clear here as I have recently had to have this conversation with friends who assumed they had legal rifles.
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Old 12-27-2020, 10:04 AM
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My range officer says........
That's the problem right there his job is only range safety.
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Old 12-27-2020, 10:33 AM
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The paperwork is the assault weapon notification from the state after one has registered their BBAW during the legal registration period. Don’t confuse this with the DROS. I always keep a copy of my assault weapon notification from the state just in case I get stopped by law enforcement. Hope this clears up any confusion.
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Old 12-27-2020, 11:19 AM
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I use my RAW BBAR with legally owned full capacity mags at the range all the time. Perfectly legal. BB is attached.
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Old 12-27-2020, 11:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dizzyblonde View Post
Want to hear 7 wrong answers about any question to do with guns or gun laws? Ask any 4 people at a gun shop or shooting range.

So funny!!
But iso true.


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Old 12-27-2020, 2:23 PM
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OP, seems RSO did his job. You were so "safe" you packed up your gear and left!
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Old 12-27-2020, 2:35 PM
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I thought BB RAWs were limited to 10 rounds?
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Old 12-27-2020, 2:50 PM
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Default My range officer says registered BBAW is illegal

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spaffo View Post
I thought BB RAWs were limited to 10 rounds?
** see fix below

No, only fixed magazine semi autos are limited to 10 rounds with or without when they also have other assault weapon features (AW by feature minus removable magazine). BBRAW and all other RAW (and featureless semi auto) can use any legally owned magazine.


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Last edited by lordmorgul; 12-27-2020 at 9:14 PM.. Reason: With or without other features
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Old 12-27-2020, 3:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lordmorgul View Post
No, only fixed magazine semi autos are limited to 10 rounds when they also have other assault weapon features (AW by feature minus removable magazine). BBRAW and all other RAW (and featureless semi auto) can use any legally owned magazine.


Andrew - Lancaster, CA
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Nope.

A semi-automatic, Centerfire, Rifle having a fixed magazine of more than 10 round capacity is defined as an "Assault Weapon" even if it has no other evil features. Please refer to Penal Code section 30515(a)(2).

A Registered Assault Weapon can use large capacity magazines because it's already an "Assault Weapon."
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Last edited by RickD427; 12-27-2020 at 3:32 PM..
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  #37  
Old 12-27-2020, 3:50 PM
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Tell RSO to go back to law school, he doesn't quite understand the law.
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Old 12-27-2020, 4:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spaffo View Post
I thought BB RAWs were limited to 10 rounds?
That was the case BEFORE BBRAW went into effect, a BB gun was considered a fixed mag. With BBRAW a BB became a detachable mag so either ditch the evils or register.
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Old 12-27-2020, 7:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vangster View Post
The paperwork is the assault weapon notification from the state after one has registered their BBAW during the legal registration period. Don’t confuse this with the DROS. I always keep a copy of my assault weapon notification from the state just in case I get stopped by law enforcement. Hope this clears up any confusion.
I wasn’t confused, I assumed that’s what you had by your original post but I I have recently come across people who never registered because they assumed they already had with the original purchase. I was hoping that wasn’t the case here.
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Old 12-27-2020, 9:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RickD427 View Post
Nope.

A semi-automatic, Centerfire, Rifle having a fixed magazine of more than 10 round capacity is defined as an "Assault Weapon" even if it has no other evil features. Please refer to Penal Code section 30515(a)(2).

A Registered Assault Weapon can use large capacity magazines because it's already an "Assault Weapon."

Good correction, typed that response out without enough review.


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