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  #1  
Old 02-21-2021, 6:07 PM
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Default What to do with this one.

Not a big expert in shotguns at all, so ....

I have an old Damascus barrel sxs with external hammers. Seems tight on lock up and hammers are tight and work well. I got this shotgun from my Dad years ago. Nothing special. I think it is made in Belgium.

I think it used to use black power ammo, but I'm not sure.

Now for the "stupid" questions!

Can it be fired, or do I get a nice set of wall brackets for it?

Also, I was thinking of having it cut down (over the 18" mark) and made into a coach gun. Stupid idea?
If I did, I'd re-blue it also.

I have an idea that that damn Damascus barrel might be a problem? Am I right?

It not worth a lot of money as it sets, so.

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Old 02-21-2021, 6:09 PM
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Pictures will be helpful.
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Old 02-21-2021, 6:30 PM
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Wall hanger for me.

There are some who shoot damascus guns with low pressure nitro shells. Condition is everything and damascus can be tricky to assess.
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Old 02-21-2021, 6:41 PM
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Yeah, I don't have access to it today.

It's is pretty rough shape and is why I was willing to cut it down.
Normally, I won't touch an old firearm unless it is so bad.

Maybe the wall brackets are a good idea?
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Old 02-21-2021, 7:02 PM
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Really curious about what the gun is....... Eclipse, maybe? I have an old Belgian Eclipse, and do shoot it occasionally with low power (2 Dram) black powder loads. Mine is not Damascus, but I have shot Damascus shotguns. They are a lot of fun.

Like JagerDog advises, Damascus are tricky to assess.... So you won't get a "shoot it' recommendation from me. I thought long and hard before shooting mine, but in the end I just had to know. I nibbled all around the internet searching for info and took as many precautions as possible.

I'd love to see some pics.
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Old 02-21-2021, 7:31 PM
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Not cheap, but RST makes low pressure shells for old guns.
I'd have the barrels checked to make sure it would be safe to fire.
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Old 02-21-2021, 7:35 PM
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Would love to see a pic!
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Old 02-21-2021, 8:35 PM
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You might find this discussion interesting:

https://calguns.net/calgunforum/show....php?t=1688722
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Old 02-21-2021, 10:22 PM
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Wall hanger, post pics.
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Old 02-21-2021, 10:50 PM
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If Biden gets his way, those will be the only type allowed in America. Then they will be worth a mint. lol
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Old 02-22-2021, 8:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 'ol shooter View Post
Wall hanger, post pics.
Impossible to say, without more info. Dismissing it out of hand just because it is Damascus is a mistake, IMO.
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Old 02-22-2021, 8:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dolk View Post
Yeah, I don't have access to it today.

It's is pretty rough shape and is why I was willing to cut it down.
Normally, I won't touch an old firearm unless it is so bad.

Maybe the wall brackets are a good idea?
If "pretty rough" means any significant corrossion to the barrel set, then it's probably not a shooter anymore. Damascus has millions of nooks and crannies where damage can be hidden. While individuals can "take a chance", I doubt you'll find a reputable source that will say it's OK. Some might say "I'd shoot it, but can't advise you to".

Now one that's been taken care of and shows it, different answer.

I'd only think of cutting it down if the end of the barrels saw corrosion and that was it. I'd think that a unique case.
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Old 02-22-2021, 8:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JagerDog View Post
I'd only think of cutting it down if the end of the barrels saw corrosion and that was it. I'd think that a unique case.
Yeah - if the intent is to hang it on the wall, I wouldn't cut it. If you do cut it, there will be repair necessary to the front end because now the space under the ribs will be exposed and will need to be filled. And, if the rib solder is old, weak, or damaged, the ribs might partially or fully break free. The only reason to cut it would to be to remove an obviously damaged front end, in the hope to make it safely shootable.

We'd all still love to see some pics.
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Old 02-22-2021, 8:49 AM
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What about some kind of gauge reducer, like the inserts that allow you to shoot .410 from a 12 gauge and so on?
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Old 02-22-2021, 8:55 AM
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Consider it a fragmentation grenade that you'll set off right in front of your face - then decide if it will be a wall hanger.
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  #16  
Old 02-22-2021, 9:21 AM
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Run a proof load through it.

A nice hot 3" steel or slug round should do it. Get a long string.
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Old 02-22-2021, 11:26 AM
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OK, have it in my hands and will take photos of it later but ...

It is rougher then I remembered it being. In extreme need of oil! LOL

From what I can dig off the internet:
It is a R. Barklay which is a shotgun made by about three different makers in Belgim for a hardware store (now called True Value).
Made from 1883 to 1914 when trade with Belgium came to and end because of WWI.
It should have a manufacture date on it but I will have to look a lot closer to find it.
Dark brown patina over all of it.
In the action area, it is rusty but not pitted.
Locks up good. Hammers work good. Actually functions fine.
Stock is nice with a few bangs here and there. With checkering.

After looking at it again, I think I will not shoot it. So no reason to cut it down either.
I think it is doomed to hang on my wall. I hate to see a firearm that is not capable of doing what it is designed to do. But I am used to it because I have a half a dozen Revolutionary War Muskets (originals) and several Civil War carbines hanging on the walls already. And of coarse, they are never fired (except some of the carbines).

I will take some photos if you guy want to see it. It's nothing special I think. Jut an OLD tired shotgun.

would like opinions on what to do with it if I hang it on the wall. Should I remove all the rust and oil it down or leave it as it is. It looks pretty cool like it is, but, I don't know how it would look cleaned up. Thought I should ask first.

DB

PS: I have an old percussion smooth bore (around 41 caliber I think). It is an Emile Laport & Cie. It also has a very nice Damascus barrel on it. Anyone heard of it?
Is it a shotgun or a bullet gun?
If you would like to see photos of it (which I have) I'll start a new thread.
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Old 02-22-2021, 11:36 AM
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If it's not a valuable shotgun I would say YouTube video of why you should never use modern shotgun ammo in a Damascus twist vintage shotgun. Long string (at least 50ft) attached to trigger/s, mounted in a vise on a bench, camera rolling hiding behind a shrapnel proof barrier. Safety first of course.
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Old 02-22-2021, 11:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dolk View Post
I will take some photos if you guy want to see it. It's nothing special I think. Jut an OLD tired shotgun.
Yes, I would love to see it if you have the time to upload the pics and start a new thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dolk View Post
would like opinions on what to do with it if I hang it on the wall. Should I remove all the rust and oil it down or leave it as it is. It looks pretty cool like it is, but, I don't know how it would look cleaned up. Thought I should ask first.
Personally, I'd pull it all apart and give it a thorough detail cleaning and preservation treatment. If I were going to hang a gun on my wall as decoration, I'd want it to look as nice as possible and be a display piece that can be handled and played with without getting dirty. As I mentioned earlier, I bought an old Belgian Eclipse SxS as a wall hanger a while back. It was quite the satisfying experience, cleaning out 100+ years of gunk out of the action. I learned a lot about the gun, got to decipher the proof marks, and make it clean and presentable while retaining the century old patina. Turned out mine was shootable, so I got to play with working up low power BP loads for it.
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Old 02-22-2021, 12:07 PM
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I'll post photos of both today.

Not sure if I should post the Emile Laport here in shotguns, or the Black Powder forums?????

I'm not a huge shotgun guy, more into antique Black Powder and WWII and older rifles. But, I'm learning! LOL

DB
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Old 02-22-2021, 12:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daveinwoodland View Post
If it's not a valuable shotgun I would say YouTube video of why you should never use modern shotgun ammo in a Damascus twist vintage shotgun. Long string (at least 50ft) attached to trigger/s, mounted in a vise on a bench, camera rolling hiding behind a shrapnel proof barrier. Safety first of course.
I saw an otherwise nice one with a cracked stock go for about $150 at auction. So, not a valuable gun. Still...... I wouldn't wreck it for a YouTube video.
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Old 02-22-2021, 5:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JagerDog View Post
Run a proof load through it.

A nice hot 3" steel or slug round should do it. Get a long string.
I use a piece of para cord and 2 old tires. Sandwich the thing between the tires and yell "fire in the hole!", pull and pray.
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Old 02-22-2021, 6:17 PM
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TMK proof loads are 150%. So 150% of what would be a diet for a damascus gun would be in the 12 kpsi range.
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Old 02-22-2021, 10:13 PM
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TMK proof loads are 150%. So 150% of what would be a diet for a damascus gun would be in the 12 kpsi range.
Sounds about right. IIRC, a 3 dram load produces about 4k PSI.
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Old 02-23-2021, 12:05 AM
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A pretty good thread on damascus I came across. Some pro, some con.

https://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?t=259371

I thought they were closer to 5-6 kpsi, but I'm out of my element. I think most folks running smokeless in them try to stay under about 7-8 kpsi. Go too low and smokeless just isn't a very good tool as performance wanders from shell to shell.

And don't think "Made in Belgium" means quality or anything. It just means made in Belgium.

USA guns were typically heavier and stronger. Euro's tended to like (lighter) bird guns while American's liked utilitarian guns.
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Old 02-23-2021, 8:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JagerDog View Post
A pretty good thread on damascus I came across. Some pro, some con.

https://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?t=259371

I thought they were closer to 5-6 kpsi, but I'm out of my element. I think most folks running smokeless in them try to stay under about 7-8 kpsi. Go too low and smokeless just isn't a very good tool as performance wanders from shell to shell.

And don't think "Made in Belgium" means quality or anything. It just means made in Belgium.

USA guns were typically heavier and stronger. Euro's tended to like (lighter) bird guns while American's liked utilitarian guns.
The link is interesting, thanks for posting it.

As far as "Made in Belgium" being a sign of quality, you're right.... it means nothing, especially for the turn of the 19th/20th century Belgian SxS. Again - I'm not an expert, but I did buy an old Belgian for a wall hanger and did some research. It seems the Belgians were mass-producing inexpensive SxS shotguns, expressly for the U.S. market. A lot of various brands, most leading back to a fellow H.Peiper. Every hardware store and catalog had them for sale.... usually for around $10 or less.

RE: BP pressure.... I'm not an expert either, but I was pointed to a chart on the internet :

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Old 02-23-2021, 12:07 PM
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Sorry, trying to figure out how to post images.

DB
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Barclay_SxS_002.jpg (83.7 KB, 105 views)
File Type: jpg Barclay_SxS.jpg (94.0 KB, 100 views)
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Old 02-23-2021, 12:17 PM
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Sorry, trying to figure out how to post images.

DB
Pretty cool, thanks for taking the time. I kind of like the way it looks..... very similar to my Eclipse (H. Peiper) SxS. Any chance you'd be willing to sell it?



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Old 02-23-2021, 12:41 PM
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No, I have never sold a firearm I have owned.

Yes, I have a lot of firearms! lol

db
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Old 02-23-2021, 12:41 PM
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Quote:
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No, I have never sold a firearm I have owned.

Yes, I have a lot of firearms! lol

db
LOL.... Good for you!!
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Old 03-01-2021, 11:43 AM
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Well..... since you wouldn't sell me yours, I had to go out and find one for myself.

https://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/....php?t=1698663
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