LA ambulance crews told not to transport patients with little chance of survival

[Den60]

Originally Posted by duenor

Don't those photos, and others, demonstrate that your claim about COVID19 being much worse in China than in here, is unlikely to be true?

As community transmission increases, the risk of contracting the virus through community transmission increases - basically you have a snowball effect.

I don't know why the virus is so rampant in LAC right now, although TBH it is rampant all across CA. Yesterday was a new record, 73,000 cases in a single day. Remember in early December there were like 14,000 cases in the entire state in a single day.

I'm just looking at risk factors.

And that is unique to LA how?

[robledor]

We need to impose a madatory quarantine on everyone arriving like New Zealand. I like that idea.

[Sgt. J Beezy]

Originally Posted by ACfixer

Right? Hey duenor, explain how Bat Soup City can celebrate like this but we can't have Times Square or the Rose Bowl. Oooooh and look, you can see several mask violations, better report them to the authorities!



When are you clowns going to admit you are being played?

My theory on how Wuhan is “over” the virus is that they let millions of their citizens die and those left have the antibodies/immunities/or asymptomatic.


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[Sousuke]

Originally Posted by robledor

We need to impose a madatory quarantine on everyone arriving like New Zealand. I like that idea.

Technically we do, it just has no enforcement. When arriving in the US this year, you are told to quarantine for 14 days (This might have been reduced to 10 recently).

[Sousuke]

Originally Posted by Den60

Subject to one's interpretation.

Tell you what Den, since you have been polite and clearly my signature seems to be stressing out certain posters, I'll remove it.

[hermosabeach]

[Den60]

Originally Posted by robledor

We need to impose a madatory quarantine on everyone arriving like New Zealand. I like that idea.

We better get hurrying up to build that wall then. If Biden gets in, though, he will let the caravans through.

[SAN compnerd]

Originally Posted by Den60

And that is unique to LA how?

Because LA is doing 10 million tests a month in December. High CT PCR tests produce millions of false positives per the WHO and Dr Fauci.

[duenor]

Originally Posted by SAN compnerd

Because LA is doing 10 million tests a month in December. High CT PCR tests produce millions of false positives per the WHO and Dr Fauci.

Misinformation.
You can't run someone without SARS COV2 a bunch of times and then they just magically turn up positive. The articles you keep posting and I gave up replying to is about how someone who already had it, but recovered, may still have residual particles in their system, and high cycle threshold tests may interpret that as a false positive.

There's been guys on CG who actually run these machines commenting to this effect.

[SAN compnerd]

Originally Posted by duenor

Misinformation.
You can't run someone without SARS COV2 a bunch of times and then they just magically turn up positive. The articles you keep posting and I gave up replying to is about how someone who already had it, but recovered, may still have residual particles in their system, and high cycle threshold tests may interpret that as a false positive.

There's been guys on CG who actually run these machines commenting to this effect.

You lost all credibility long ago, you've got no place to call out anyone for misinformation. Dr. Fauci agrees with me, is he spreading misinformation too?

[SanDiego619]

Originally Posted by duenor

Misinformation.
You can't run someone without SARS COV2 a bunch of times and then they just magically turn up positive. The articles you keep posting and I gave up replying to is about how someone who already had it, but recovered, may still have residual particles in their system, and high cycle threshold tests may interpret that as a false positive.

There's been guys on CG who actually run these machines commenting to this effect.

Even coca cola tested positive after enough cycles.

[SAN compnerd]

But Dr. Dre got right into ICU, no waiting, for an aneurysm.

[ERdept]

OK, the ALS crews call into certain hospitals that are designated "base stations".

The base station tells them where to go and basically reviews treatments.


If a person is not salvageable they are told to NOT take the patient to the ER.


This has been a practice for decades and is NOT new news.

[ERdept]

Originally Posted by SAN compnerd

But Dr. Dre got right into ICU, no waiting, for an aneurysm.

They never go to the ICU w/o waiting, the entry point is the ER.

They may have gone to the ER w/o waiting.

[ERdept]

Originally Posted by duenor

Misinformation.
You can't run someone without SARS COV2 a bunch of times and then they just magically turn up positive. The articles you keep posting and I gave up replying to is about how someone who already had it, but recovered, may still have residual particles in their system, and high cycle threshold tests may interpret that as a false positive.

There's been guys on CG who actually run these machines commenting to this effect.

The testing is very sensitive..


If you have HAD covid, and wanted to be tested in 2 week, we always decline to because the test is very sensitive and will show positive, when they really have gotten over it.


Basically, if you HAD it and 2 weeks have passed and have no symptoms. NO NEED FOR TESTING.

You got over it and go on with life.

[motox917]

You guys have fun arguing...

This is nothing new for kern county EMS protocols. Patients who have non-witnessed arrests but don’t have any obvious death criteria (rigor, lividity, etc.) get CPR, drugs, and shocks if advised for 30 minutes. After that 30 minutes they are declared dead. Traumatic full arrests (if found pulse less and apneic) are called dead on scene. Props to CNN for fear mongering though ����

[ibanezfoo]

Originally Posted by Dirtlaw

Source is a rag ... still I hope it's not true.


https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/05/us/lo...vid/index.html

But we'll tell all the healthy people to stay locked in their homes...

[Den60]

Originally Posted by motox917

You guys have fun arguing...

This is nothing new for kern county EMS protocols. Patients who have non-witnessed arrests but don’t have any obvious death criteria (rigor, lividity, etc.) get CPR, drugs, and shocks if advised for 30 minutes. After that 30 minutes they are declared dead. Traumatic full arrests (if found pulse less and apneic) are called dead on scene. Props to CNN for fear mongering though ����

Gotta keep fanning the flames of fear.

[anthonyca]

Originally Posted by Hammertime

Another burning Liberal utopia.

Florida has been completely open for weeks without being the epicenter of this BS. Funny how that works.

Florida and Texas have been open for months, since around May or.so. only a few bog cities had restrictions past masks in public. I was in Miami in November and besides masks on most people, you would never know this was happening. Once out of MiamiDade, it was even more like normal.

[Marauder2003]

I don’t put much trust in Fauci. I have no idea who to believe.

https://youtu.be/wthaOLsCzKQ

Originally Posted by SAN compnerd

You lost all credibility long ago, you've got no place to call out anyone for misinformation. Dr. Fauci agrees with me, is he spreading misinformation too?

[SAN compnerd]

Originally Posted by Marauder2003

I don’t put much trust in Fauci. I have no idea who to believe.

https://youtu.be/wthaOLsCzKQ

Not a big believer in Fauci either, but he agrees with the experts who say that high cycle threshold PCR tests are not reliable.

I'll jam him down the libs throats that believe every word he says any time.

[heavyrecoil]

We’ve been handling cardiac arrests that way in the area I work in for a ~~~long~~ time. Maybe before this memo, EMS guys in LA were transporting a lot of dead people to the hospital?

[five.five-six]

[five.five-six]

This is the plan all along. Obama flat out said this was the plan.

[Medics197]

Firstly this is absolutely idiotic


This has been standard protocol in Santa Barbara county and lots of others for YEARS. This is nothing new a blunt traumatic full arrest has quite literally less then 10% survival chance it’s minuscule.

And lots of counties perform 20 minutes of cpr on patients and then pronounce in the field as standard protocol if the patient never receives a shock/or rhythm change that is viable.

[emtmark]

Originally Posted by daveinwoodland

Not to berate any first responders but if you were in that position would you want to make that decision? I've had full fledged doctors make huge mistakes with my care so I don't think I want a Paramedic making that choice for me.

Noted


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[emtmark]

Originally Posted by ERdept

OK, the ALS crews call into certain hospitals that are designated "base stations".



The base station tells them where to go and basically reviews treatments.





If a person is not salvageable they are told to NOT take the patient to the ER.





This has been a practice for decades and is NOT new news.

That’s in your AO, that’s not the norm everywhere LA has always been a mother may I system. Many of which, I am one, believe it to be archaic and ponderous.

Non salvageable in your context means what exactly? I ask for clarification as non salvageable generally means they have died or will die without intervention.

In our system the only time we are directed to not transport is if we determine death in protocol for traumatic injury AND the closest trauma receiving declines the case.

Obvious present and established death ie rigor, missing vital organ, incineration, 30 min code with no ROSC or shockable rhythm by rescuers (any age) are all called in the field without consult.

For anyone who wants to see what their ems can and can’t do search your local ems agency for their protocols and specifically transport and non transport decisions and determination of death protocols.

In short we don’t ask for permission to transport we only ask for permission to NOT transport under a program described as paramedic initiated refuse and refer. It’s used primarily for established chronic issues that don’t rise to the level required for immediate intervention. If we believe the PT has a refuse and refer complaint/situation we follow our protocol and consult with a county wide avail conference call with a md/case manager that arranges nonemergent transport (uber lyft taxi at county expense) to an appt scheduled with PCP or Specialist. It’s done then and there over the phone. From there it’s up to the PT to follow through and keep the appt. Failure to keep the appt generates a second house call from county health to force a follow up. The majority of those calls that we do this on are psych, dermatitis, drug abuse, etc. Stuff that you do not need emergency services of a hospital for.

I can absolutely agree that the ED has been the dumping ground for decades of the ill cared for and those without access (by choice or otherwise). This program and those like it are attempting to divert those pts to the proper place for them to get what they need and allow the ED to focus on the acutely ill and dying.




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[BigPimping]

EMTMark beat me to it. That's exactly what happens. And it's been going on like that for years. They've just added the Covid variable into the protocol.

There are many scenarios in which EMS does not transport.

[ERdept]

Originally Posted by emtmark

That’s in your AO, that’s not the norm everywhere LA has always been a mother may I system. Many of which, I am one, believe it to be archaic and ponderous.

Non salvageable in your context means what exactly? I ask for clarification as non salvageable generally means they have died or will die without intervention.

In our system the only time we are directed to not transport is if we determine death in protocol for traumatic injury AND the closest trauma receiving declines the case.

Obvious present and established death ie rigor, missing vital organ, incineration, 30 min code with no ROSC or shockable rhythm by rescuers (any age) are all called in the field without consult.

For anyone who wants to see what their ems can and can’t do search your local ems agency for their protocols and specifically transport and non transport decisions and determination of death protocols.

In short we don’t ask for permission to transport we only ask for permission to NOT transport under a program described as paramedic initiated refuse and refer. It’s used primarily for established chronic issues that don’t rise to the level required for immediate intervention. If we believe the PT has a refuse and refer complaint/situation we follow our protocol and consult with a county wide avail conference call with a md/case manager that arranges nonemergent transport (uber lyft taxi at county expense) to an appt scheduled with PCP or Specialist. It’s done then and there over the phone. From there it’s up to the PT to follow through and keep the appt. Failure to keep the appt generates a second house call from county health to force a follow up. The majority of those calls that we do this on are psych, dermatitis, drug abuse, etc. Stuff that you do not need emergency services of a hospital for.

I can absolutely agree that the ED has been the dumping ground for decades of the ill cared for and those without access (by choice or otherwise). This program and those like it are attempting to divert those pts to the proper place for them to get what they need and allow the ED to focus on the acutely ill and dying.




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YTup, like i said, but with more words. Hehe, you sound like a young person trying to demonstrate your knowledge.

Remember the first thing we're taught, don't use jargon or lingo that only people in the EMS system know, and you go right to using terms such as ROSC...lol

This is about the news again scaring people with what's already been common-sensically been going on ...Dont send people to the ER that won't make if for the already agreed upon reasons that all the hospitals and agencies have concluded at the EMS agency in Santa Fe Springs when we all have our monthly pow wow.

[joepamjohn]

Originally Posted by Hammertime

If CA had chosen its legal residents over illegal interlopers, we would have a much stronger and capable medical infrastructure. These choices would not have to be made.

Vote accordingly.

Vote? I think we have recently seen that doesn't work too well.

[joepamjohn]

Originally Posted by SAN compnerd

We had a number of paramedics and med tech's chime in in the vaccination thread, hopefully some will chime in here and give us a better idea what's really going on.

We already do. It’s Duenor.......

[emtmark]

Originally Posted by ERdept

YTup, like i said, but with more words. Hehe, you sound like a young person trying to demonstrate your knowledge.



Remember the first thing we're taught, don't use jargon or lingo that only people in the EMS system know, and you go right to using terms such as ROSC....

Or maybe I’m lazy and don’t like typing

Later tater


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[madland]

Originally Posted by ERdept

Remember the first thing we're taught, don't use jargon or lingo that only people in the EMS system know, and you go right to using terms such as ROSC...lol

What about DFO or DRT?

[madland]

And yes..this is nothing new in LA County. The MSM just decided to stoke the coals and get the fire going again by making people think they aren't going to get a chance to pass thru the ER doors. Depending on your case..you aren't going anywhere..except thru the pearly gates..or maybe the gates of Hell.

If you're burned beyond recognition...your entire torso has been filleted with a katana and your entire insides are hanging out..or you took a bullet to the head and your brains are splattered on the wall behind you..guess what? You're dead and the FD won't be loading you up into the back of an ambulance for transport to the ER for the Doc to confirm you're a goner.

The ER depts are so saturated right now..45+min wait times holding the wall at any given ER seems to be the standard. It's a bad time to get sick with just about anything that requires a trip to the ER.

[RNursejitsu7]

Hate to bring this to light, but guess what happens after surviving long enough to be triaged?

Lot of reckless decisions are being made endangering peoples lives because of the lack of resources mostly and … well … the greedy ***** executives in the hospital setting.

I’ve witness some interesting sh*t the past 2 weeks and I hope nobody I know needs to be admitted. Your likelihood of botched care has been increased exponentially due to the surge in patients, covid-19 or not.

[Wordupmybrotha]

Yep, that's how it is in LA right now. In MLK Jr hospital (in Compton) for example ER and ICU are overcrowded. They set up tents in the parking lot for patients. Cold at night. Not good time to get sick or injured in LA.

[bbq_ribs]

Originally Posted by SAN compnerd

We had a number of paramedics and med tech's chime in in the vaccination thread, hopefully some will chime in here and give us a better idea what's really going on.

I'll chime in. I've been in EMS for almost 16 years now, the past 5 as a Paramedic in Texas and Oklahoma.

What LA is talking about here is actually common procedure outside of California.

EMS in California is years behind the rest of the country. Most every system I've seen here is a very "mother, may I" type of setup. It's a complete mess.

[SAN compnerd]

Originally Posted by duenor

Misinformation.
You can't run someone without SARS COV2 a bunch of times and then they just magically turn up positive. The articles you keep posting and I gave up replying to is about how someone who already had it, but recovered, may still have residual particles in their system, and high cycle threshold tests may interpret that as a false positive.

There's been guys on CG who actually run these machines commenting to this effect.

When the FDA announces new CT guidelines in the next few weeks I expect you to post a thread here with full apology and some self deprecation about how wrong you were and how silly you feel for being duped.

[SAN compnerd]

Originally Posted by SoCal326

How does more liberty help contain the virus?

Aside from churches, restaurants and sporting events/concerts i don't really feel like anyone is paying attention to the lockdown anyways
Not like the first time.

Like all major societal problems, central planning cannot solve them.

Central planning cannot direct the efforts needed to build a single pencil, they can't direct the ax maker who made the ax to chop down the tree for the wood, they can't direct the rubber tree farmer who helps produce the eraser, they can't direct the paint manufacturer who makes the yellow paint.

Central planning cannot build an automobile. It takes a diffuse and dispersed knowledge of thousands around the globe, each expert in local knowledge on how best to accomplish their contribution to the automobile in the most efficient manner.

Thinking central planning can solve one of the biggest problems facing humanity in the present is a fools errand, central planning fails every time it's tried, it's failing now in California as the states cases skyrocket like no other state in the union and it's failing now in states like California and NY where central planners setup guidelines for vaccine priority that has now resulted in many dosed of the vaccine being thrown out as they have expired.

This article explains it much better than I can.

https://fee.org/articles/why-most-fe...d-for-liberty/

[August]

Originally Posted by SAN compnerd

But Dr. Dre got right into ICU, no waiting, for an aneurysm.

BLM