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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #41  
Old 12-05-2018, 12:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cockedandglocked View Post
Here's a breakdown on what an average Californian already pays in taxes and fees for their first handgun purchase:
  • $19.00 DROS fee
  • $1.00 Firearms Safety Act fee
  • $5.00 Safety and Enforcement fee
  • $25.00 Firearm Safety Certificate fee
  • 10% income tax on the money used for the purchase
  • 7.25% sales tax on the purchase

By the time you've bough a basic $600 Glock, you've already paid $163 to the state in taxes and fees Then add another $44 to that if you want the "privilege" of being able to have it with you when you might need it.

And now they're crying again that they don't get enough money from gun purchases, and they want more. When is it enough??
All this income coming into the CA general fund..... from guns...?? Now I'm thinking they'll NEVER ban them there.. Just add more fees as this proposed tax does...Guns are a cash cow.
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  #42  
Old 12-05-2018, 12:47 PM
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Originally Posted by sarbiker View Post
Why limit it to $25.00, that's "Saturday Night Special" affordable. Why not $250.00 or $2,500.00? Better Idea make it retroactive to every gun in your name in the DOJ data base..!!
Those guns are no longer in the state, prove me wrong...
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  #43  
Old 12-05-2018, 2:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cockedandglocked View Post
Here's a breakdown on what an average Californian already pays in taxes and fees for their first handgun purchase:
  • $19.00 DROS fee
  • $1.00 Firearms Safety Act fee
  • $5.00 Safety and Enforcement fee
  • $25.00 Firearm Safety Certificate fee
  • 10% income tax on the money used for the purchase
  • 7.25% sales tax on the purchase

By the time you've bough a basic $600 Glock, you've already paid $163 to the state in taxes and fees Then add another $44 to that if you want the "privilege" of being able to have it with you when you might need.

And now they're crying again that they don't get enough money from gun purchases, and they want more. When is it enough??

Don't forget the extra FFL fees on one side (or maybe 2 sides if coming from out of state) that seem to be getting ever higher to cover FFL compliance and oversight. (Note: not complaining about the FFLs - they gotta do what they gotta do.)
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  #44  
Old 12-07-2018, 10:54 PM
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Originally Posted by sarbiker View Post
Why limit it to $25.00, that's "Saturday Night Special" affordable. Why not $250.00 or $2,500.00? Better Idea make it retroactive to every gun in your name in the DOJ data base..!!
Those are rookie numbers. Why not a $1000.00 annual license fee? Per firearm. Think of the children.
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  #45  
Old 12-08-2018, 12:08 AM
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Try this on for size: California Taxpayer revolt.
No conservative representation-no taxation.
If you're an employer or retailer; no tax collection or payment.
Consumers to boycott retailers who charge state tax.
Employees can claim a dozen dependents and then send no state tax payment in April.
Etc. Etc.
Half the money saved goes into a communal legal warchest.
If practiced by only a few million in California would bring the state to its knees.
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  #46  
Old 12-08-2018, 4:33 AM
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Lol...when given an opportunity to get rid of a tax Californians reaffirmed it and added a couple more for good measure.

Quote:
Originally Posted by isntzen View Post
Try this on for size: California Taxpayer revolt.
No conservative representation-no taxation.
If you're an employer or retailer; no tax collection or payment.
Consumers to boycott retailers who charge state tax.
Employees can claim a dozen dependents and then send no state tax payment in April.
Etc. Etc.
Half the money saved goes into a communal legal warchest.
If practiced by only a few million in California would bring the state to its knees.
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  #47  
Old 12-08-2018, 5:43 AM
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Originally Posted by BluNorthern View Post
Lol...when given an opportunity to get rid of a tax Californians reaffirmed it and added a couple more for good measure.
Agree. It’s sad that either the majority of voters in this state either fail miserably in the area of reading comprehension, or are naive enough to think the gas tax will go to or help our roads...

I saw on the news a couple days ago, $12.5million to add metering lights on 5 sac area onramps... 2.5 million per light! WTF?! Waste beyond imagination
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  #48  
Old 12-21-2018, 5:29 PM
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Let's write this down... A new "excise" tax on the purchase of selected firearms, the proceeds of which are "supposed" to go to abating gun violence in CA... But in fact will additionally burden the low income person's ability to purchase a firearm which would allow him to enjoy his 2nd Amendment right. This kind of parallels that you have a right to vote but you can't put a tax on exercising that right, a "poll tax". Settled case law, cannot enact a tax on exercising a right.

So CA passes this firearm excise tax and it obviously goes to court for a challenge, eventually maybe to SCOTUS. Trump will have had time to "update" the judges in the 9th and more so we can have a legitimate challenge. Caught up in the collateral damage could be those other 2A-related items like the $200 tax stamp for suppressors, etc. Ironically, CA could take down many of the federally taxed NFA items.
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  #49  
Old 12-21-2018, 6:34 PM
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I admire your optimism. It's not impossible - newsom's magazine possession ban very well could be on the way to resulting in deleting the ban entirely. The same could be true about the bullet button ban causing the whole assault weapon ban to be deleted.

But we unfortunately can't rely on those being the results. It's a big stretch, and less likely than the opposite result.
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  #50  
Old 12-21-2018, 8:31 PM
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i am glad i have moved most of my guns out of ca already.
they are tightly locked up, and/or in places (not in ca) the gov will not find them.
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  #51  
Old 12-21-2018, 8:35 PM
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As was said a few posts up, how long befor they start charging an annual fee per registered firearm. Want to avoid the fee, turn in the firearm.
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  #52  
Old 12-26-2018, 9:59 AM
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This bill is your typical classic leftist tax and spend bill that squanders taxpayers money and does nothing about gun violence. It shows us just how irresponsible and wasteful they are in Sacramento.
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  #53  
Old 12-26-2018, 4:47 PM
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Firearms are protected under the Second Amendment. An excise tax would specifically make it less possible for lower income people to exercise their 2A right.
Voting is also a protected civil right, hence a "poll tax" was deemed unconstitutional. Even requiring a "competency test" in order to vote was considered unconstitutional (although personally I wish we could at least demand that of our lawmakers!)

Cigarettes are not constitutionally protected. Neither is gasoline.

Significant differences between the two categories.
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  #54  
Old 12-26-2018, 5:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by isntzen View Post
Try this on for size: California Taxpayer revolt.
No conservative representation-no taxation.
If you're an employer or retailer; no tax collection or payment.
Consumers to boycott retailers who charge state tax.
Employees can claim a dozen dependents and then send no state tax payment in April.
Etc. Etc.
Half the money saved goes into a communal legal warchest.
If practiced by only a few million in California would bring the state to its knees.
A "Few million" out of 40 MILLION?
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  #55  
Old 12-26-2018, 6:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rivers View Post
Firearms are protected under the Second Amendment. An excise tax would specifically make it less possible for lower income people to exercise their 2A right.
Voting is also a protected civil right, hence a "poll tax" was deemed unconstitutional. Even requiring a "competency test" in order to vote was considered unconstitutional (although personally I wish we could at least demand that of our lawmakers!)

Cigarettes are not constitutionally protected. Neither is gasoline.

Significant differences between the two categories.
realize this. That is the plan to make gun ownership expensive and burdensome so that only the rich and connected can obtain a firearm.
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  #56  
Old 12-27-2018, 11:41 AM
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Remember, the gun violence research is being led by self avowed anti gun zealot Garen Wintemute. Why give this dbag any more money for "research"? He's already reached his conclusion. Guns bad. must be eliminated.
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  #57  
Old 12-27-2018, 6:08 PM
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Originally Posted by MEGSDAD View Post
Remember, the gun violence research is being led by self avowed anti gun zealot Garen Wintemute. Why give this dbag any more money for "research"? He's already reached his conclusion. Guns bad. must be eliminated.
Maybe he wants a raise and Democrats never see a tax they don't like.
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Thank your neighbor and fellow gun owners for passing Prop 63. For that gun control is a winning legislative agenda.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z6Dj8tdSC1A
contact the governor
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  #58  
Old 12-27-2018, 8:47 PM
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Keep fighting the good fight. Bleeding to death slowly doesn't hurt so bad does it?? Of course, my bud Al Einstein might have a chuckle or two at the CA Gun owners attempts at fighting the tyranny it currently faces.

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  #59  
Old 12-28-2018, 11:12 AM
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Originally Posted by CAL.BAR View Post
See the 1934 NFA. Remember that TAX stamp?
Some people collect them. Lots of them on eBay, usually $30 to $100
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  #60  
Old 12-28-2018, 11:40 AM
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Also, if you think the state wouldn't pass an absurdly expensive tax for firearm sales, like $4,000 per firearm, remember that in 1934, they thought $200 was a "reasonable" tax for people to have to pay for certain firearms.

$200 in 1934 would be the equivalent of paying nearly $4,000 in 2018.

So it's been done before. It absolutely could happen again, and this bill is a "foot in the door" to make it happen. Even if it starts with only 1 penny per firearm sale, this bill needs to be opposed AT ALL COSTS. They aren't looking for revenue - they're looking for a way to get a bill passed that allows for (any) excise tax so they can easily adjust it later as they see fit. 1 penny turns into 1 dollar turns into 100 dollars turns into 4,000 dollars turns into...
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  #61  
Old 12-28-2018, 2:51 PM
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This is simply a tax on the poor. They don’t want poor people (or anyone for that matter) having guns. It just makes it one little bit harder to get a gun.


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  #62  
Old 03-26-2019, 6:59 AM
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Well... looks like this hasn't gotten any discussion in a while. I'm still playing around with legislative notification services. Anyhow, being this was one of the scarier bills...

It was amended on 3/21. The excise tax will be $25, which is used to fund CalVIP violence prevention grants. Here's the meat of the tax (naturally LEOs are exempt), while the rest of the law discusses grants, grant and tax administration.
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36011. (a) In addition to any tax imposed under Chapter 3 (commencing with Section 6201) of Part 1, an excise tax is hereby imposed on the storage, use, or other consumption in this state of a firearm purchased as new from any retailer on or after January 1, 2020, for the storage, use, or other consumption in this state at the rate of twenty-five dollars ($25) per firearm.
(b) Every person storing, using, or otherwise consuming in this state a firearm purchased as new from any retailer on or after January 1, 2020, is liable for the tax. That person’s liability is not extinguished until the tax has been paid to this state except that a receipt from a firearm dealer given to the purchaser pursuant to subdivision (c) is sufficient to relieve the purchaser from further liability for the tax to which the receipt refers.
(c) Every firearm dealer processing the sale or delivery of a new firearm not exempted under Section 36021, shall, at the time of that sale or delivery, collect the tax from the purchaser or recipient and give to the purchaser or recipient a receipt therefor in the manner and form prescribed by the department.
(d) The tax required to be collected by the firearm dealer and any amount unreturned to the customer which is not tax but was collected from the customer under the representation by the firearm dealer that it was tax constitutes debts owed by the firearm dealer to this state.
(e) It is unlawful for any firearm dealer to advertise or hold out or state to the public or to any customer, directly or indirectly, that the tax or any part thereof will be assumed or absorbed by the firearm dealer or that it will not be added to the selling price of the firearm or that if added it or any part thereof will be refunded.
(f) The tax required to be collected by the firearm dealer from the purchaser or recipient shall be displayed separately from the list price, the price advertised in the premises, the marked price, or other price on the sales check or other proof of sales.
(g) Any person violating subdivision (c), (e), or (f) is guilty of a misdemeanor.
Currently it's in Committee for Public Safety. Will be heard 04/09/19.

Last edited by BeAuMaN; 03-26-2019 at 7:02 AM..
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  #63  
Old 03-26-2019, 8:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Moemoe1 View Post
How is this even legal? To put an extra tax on guns because they believe it’ll solve gun violence? How!!
Check out kettler v us in the national forum. It may go before the supreme court and deals with the nfa. If a ruling on that case works out for us, laws like this are sunk.
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  #64  
Old 03-26-2019, 8:28 AM
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Originally Posted by BeAuMaN View Post
Well... looks like this hasn't gotten any discussion in a while. I'm still playing around with legislative notification services. Anyhow, being this was one of the scarier bills...

It was amended on 3/21. The excise tax will be $25, which is used to fund CalVIP violence prevention grants. Here's the meat of the tax (naturally LEOs are exempt), while the rest of the law discusses grants, grant and tax administration.


Currently it's in Committee for Public Safety. Will be heard 04/09/19.
Would take affect on Jan 1st if passed . . . . . they're wasting no time!
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Old 03-26-2019, 12:07 PM
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Originally Posted by onelonehorseman View Post
Would take affect on Jan 1st if passed . . . . . they're wasting no time!
Unless otherwise stated in the bill, ALL new laws take effect Jan 1 of the year following passage.
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There is no value at all complaining or analyzing or reading tea leaves to decide what these bills really mean or actually do; any bill with a chance to pass will be bad for gun owners.

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  #66  
Old 04-04-2019, 2:19 AM
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Amended on 4/3.

Changed one of the opening summary sentances. Tightened language on retailers, specifically for sales, and only on new firearms. Added definition for Retailer and Sold as new. Specifies that the tax is imposed on retailers. Sets a start date of January 1, 2020.
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  #67  
Old 04-04-2019, 8:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cockedandglocked View Post
Here's a breakdown on what an average Californian already pays in taxes and fees for their first handgun purchase:
  • $19.00 DROS fee
  • $1.00 Firearms Safety Act fee
  • $5.00 Safety and Enforcement fee
  • $25.00 Firearm Safety Certificate fee
  • 10% income tax on the money used for the purchase
  • 7.25% sales tax on the purchase

By the time you've bough a basic $600 Glock, you've already paid $163 to the state in taxes and fees Then add another $44 to that if you want the "privilege" of being able to have it with you when you might need it.

And now they're crying again that they don't get enough money from gun purchases, and they want more. When is it enough??
Great post. It is even worse than what you describe. You are also indirectly paying all the taxes that Glock has to pay to produce the product. Same goes for the people that transported it to the retail establishment and the retail establishment itself.

A large part of the price of any product is the taxes that the manufacturer has to pay to stay in business and make a profit.

Our founding fathers would not recognize the police state we live in right now.
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  #68  
Old 04-04-2019, 8:42 AM
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Ciggie taxes are the guideline. There is no limit to the amount of firearms taxes they can add. I expect the taxes to exceed the cost of the firearm. Since you can't buy out of state it will be only the criminals and elites having any guns here.

A 9mm Glock could cost $2000 here very quickly. Making firearms unaffordable is another type of ban.
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  #69  
Old 04-04-2019, 10:18 AM
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ace belongs on a milk carton
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Old 04-04-2019, 10:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cockedandglocked View Post
Here's a breakdown on what an average Californian already pays in taxes and fees for their first handgun purchase:
  • $19.00 DROS fee
  • $1.00 Firearms Safety Act fee
  • $5.00 Safety and Enforcement fee
  • $25.00 Firearm Safety Certificate fee
  • 10% income tax on the money used for the purchase
  • 7.25% sales tax on the purchase

By the time you've bough a basic $600 Glock, you've already paid $163 to the state in taxes and fees Then add another $44 to that if you want the "privilege" of being able to have it with you when you might need it.

And now they're crying again that they don't get enough money from gun purchases, and they want more. When is it enough??
$44??? Try $300+ for Californ ia CCW permit...if you can get one... So, if you want to actually carry that Glock, you have to just about buy it again...
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  #71  
Old 04-04-2019, 11:00 AM
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Every time a new tax or a new law is passed, they grow the big government even more. They need to hire more people to monitor and enforce compliance.

One way to decrease the size of government is start repealing the laws and taxes.
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  #72  
Old 04-04-2019, 11:21 AM
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If passed, this will just be another 'cash cow' for our socialist politicians.
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  #73  
Old 04-04-2019, 11:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ulmapache View Post
$44??? Try $300+ for Californ ia CCW permit...if you can get one... So, if you want to actually carry that Glock, you have to just about buy it again...
Right, but I was summarizing "taxes and fees". The other costs associated with paying someone to run your prints, paying for the courses, ammo, etc, don't fall into that category.
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  #74  
Old 04-04-2019, 1:18 PM
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mshill mshill is offline
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Originally Posted by Jimi Jah View Post
Ciggie taxes are the guideline. There is no limit to the amount of firearms taxes they can add. I expect the taxes to exceed the cost of the firearm. Since you can't buy out of state it will be only the criminals and elites having any guns here.

A 9mm Glock could cost $2000 here very quickly. Making firearms unaffordable is another type of ban.
You guys need to have kids, parents, or grandparents from out of state that gift you an off roster handgun every Christmas, birthday, and anniversary.

Can you adopt grandparents?
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Old 04-04-2019, 3:34 PM
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Bring back the poll tax then.
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Old 04-07-2019, 11:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Roering View Post
CA has put a tax on cigarettes to help fund cancer, etc.
CA has put a tax on gasoline to help fund roads, etc.

/not that the $$ actually serves it's intended purpose.
IMO This would be equivalent to taxing gas/cars to prevent accidents or road rage. No causal relationship as in the examples you noted

Last edited by pewpew9; 04-07-2019 at 11:14 PM..
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Old 04-25-2019, 12:54 AM
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AB-18 amended on 4/24.

Portion added that establishes the CalVIP Tax Fund (Where the money goes and how it's technically appropriated).

The part say what "firearm dealer" means is removed.
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Old 05-07-2019, 9:05 AM
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Scratch705 Scratch705 is offline
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so more news on this?

should i advance my gun purchases?
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Old 05-07-2019, 1:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Scratch705 View Post
so more news on this?

should i advance my gun purchases?
It's in the suspense file in appropriations committee. That won't be dealt with until they see what money they have in the budget, and then they go through the suspense file and pass/fail iirc.
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Old 05-07-2019, 1:40 PM
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Isn’t a tax on a right unconstitutional. At least with DROS and stuff they call them fees but now they are coming right out and calling it a tax? They just don’t care ? Do I have this right?
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