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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #81  
Old 05-07-2019, 1:59 PM
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Originally Posted by daninger4995 View Post
Isn’t a tax on a right unconstitutional. At least with DROS and stuff they call them fees but now they are coming right out and calling it a tax? They just don’t care ? Do I have this right?
It is not taxing your right, it is taxing the object you purchase to exercise that right, just like sales tax, which is what this is. At least that was the conclusion of th e Supreme Court back in the 1930s in U.S. v. Miller.
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  #82  
Old 05-07-2019, 3:16 PM
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They specifically cite the federal Pittman-Roberston act as precedent, since that puts an excise tax on firearm and ammo manufacturing to pay for park services... though this is different
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  #83  
Old 05-07-2019, 8:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Jimi Jah View Post
While the French are rioting over high gas taxes the Mensa's of California just voted for them.

Californians are nuttier than the French now.
and yet people think there is some sort of fight that they are fighting in California.

Either fight or not. Hint, the courts are not the fight you are thinking of
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  #84  
Old 05-07-2019, 8:53 PM
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buy your weapons now and hide them and the ammo. Learn to reload and develop your lines of supply. And until the idiots who call themselves california citizens get brain transplants the laws are only going to get worse. Your neighbors did this by electing these people to the legislature and state offices. I am already telling my liberal friends to live with their own mess when they complain about things like potholes, constant harassment about voting for new taxes, and pay not rising as fast as inflation in a state driving good jobs away.
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  #85  
Old 05-08-2019, 8:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Moemoe1 View Post
And Californians will gladly pay $7 a gallon ^
It's 5 bucks here at the tourist stops. Regular is now cheaper than diesel.
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  #86  
Old 05-08-2019, 8:01 PM
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Originally Posted by BAJ475 View Post
Unlike many states, the right to keep and bear arms is not part of the California Constitution. Things would be much if the following part of Section 11 of the Idaho Constitution was part of the California Constitution. "... No law shall impose licensure, registration or special taxation on the ownership or possession of firearms or ammunition. Nor shall any law permit the confiscation of firearms, except those actually used in the commission of a felony." Sort of explains why Idaho is a favorite destination for pro 2A gun folks.
STOP always pointing this out. It doesn't matter. The right to keep and bear arms is in the US Constitution which trumps the California constitution.
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  #87  
Old 05-08-2019, 8:04 PM
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Originally Posted by TruOil View Post
Gas in France is over $7.00 a gallon.
As it should be they don't have their own oil reserves - we do and like idiots we're exporting it rather than using it just for us which would keep prices down.
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  #88  
Old 05-08-2019, 9:08 PM
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Originally Posted by bronco75a View Post
As it should be they don't have their own oil reserves - we do and like idiots we're exporting it rather than using it just for us which would keep prices down.
This is rather off topic but the US is self-sufficient on oil. We do import oil and export gasoline to Europe and other places. We are the best at refining and many countries buy that service from us. While there is a bit of cost is transporting gasoline to France by far their costs differentials represent taxes.

In the US most of the revenue for the federal government comes from progressive income taxes. In Europe much of their revenue comes VAT or sales taxes. So Europe taxes the poor while we tend to tax the wealthy.

Using them for a model isn't in anyone interest.
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  #89  
Old 05-17-2019, 3:09 AM
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AB-18 Postponed/declared "2-Year Bill" in Assembly Appropriations Committee Suspense File on 5/16. I... think it's dead? Not sure. Hope it is though. The dead ones are usually held in committee.
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  #90  
Old 05-17-2019, 8:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Uncivil Engineer View Post
This is rather off topic but the US is self-sufficient on oil. We do import oil and export gasoline to Europe and other places. We are the best at refining and many countries buy that service from us. While there is a bit of cost is transporting gasoline to France by far their costs differentials represent taxes.

In the US most of the revenue for the federal government comes from progressive income taxes. In Europe much of their revenue comes VAT or sales taxes. So Europe taxes the poor while we tend to tax the wealthy.

Using them for a model isn't in anyone interest.
Consumption taxes are far more fair than income taxes unless you happen to be poor. It also rewards savings where income tax does not.
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  #91  
Old 08-05-2019, 10:05 PM
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Originally Posted by BeAuMaN View Post
AB-18 Postponed/declared "2-Year Bill" in Assembly Appropriations Committee Suspense File on 5/16. I... think it's dead? Not sure. Hope it is though. The dead ones are usually held in committee.
Back from the dead and now with added ammo excise tax and trying for emergency legislation to jam it through this session. Never let a tragedy go to waste

https://www.sacbee.com/news/politics...233547847.html

Quote:
Levine on Monday said he plans to reintroduce the proposal with an urgency clause that would allow lawmakers to consider it even though it did not clear a committee. He also plans to amend it to include an additional excise tax on sales of ammunition.
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  #92  
Old 08-05-2019, 10:22 PM
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Originally Posted by SkyHawk View Post
Back from the dead and now with added ammo excise tax and trying for emergency legislation to jam it through this session. Never let a tragedy go to waste

https://www.sacbee.com/news/politics...233547847.html
Do Democrats have any solution to any problem that doesn't involve increasing taxes?
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  #93  
Old 08-05-2019, 10:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Moemoe1 View Post
How is this even legal?
The Supreme Court has allowed the National Firearms Act of 1934 to stand for 85 years.

Law makers watching prohibition era gangster movies didn't like the Thompson sub machine guns used by actors.

Since outlawing the $200 guns would violate the Second Amendment, they imposed a $200 tax on every gun they wanted to ban even those costing just $30.

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To put an extra tax on guns because they believe it’ll solve gun violence? How!!
Gun violence among the underclass isn't possible when they can't afford guns.

$5 this year, $50 in 2020 when that doesn't work, $500 in 2021, then $5000 in 2022.
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  #94  
Old 08-16-2019, 1:35 PM
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Once again, the law abiding are penalized for the misdeeds of criminals.
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  #95  
Old 01-22-2020, 7:15 PM
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Default 2019 AB 18 Levine - Firearms: excise tax.

Just a heads up:
https://www.firearmspolicy.org/oppose_ca_ab_18

With a hint of "legislative voodoo", AB 18, the California Gun and Ammo Tax, has been revived once again and will be voted on in the California State Assembly Appropriations Committee Thursday, January 23.
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  #96  
Old 01-22-2020, 9:49 PM
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It's not legislative voodoo. At all. When the Suspense file is reviewed, which is when the appropriations committees get together and do secret votes on whether all the bills that had funding/cost requirements and review whether they can find the money in the budget to fund them. The results for each bill in this suspense file are: passed (it will get funded, bill goes on), failed (it won't get funded) or postponed/declared, with the last one being that, in a 2-year legislative session, if the bill was introduced and added to the suspense file in the first year, and it is postponed/declared, then it can be re-introduced in the 2nd year to the appropriations committee once again.

Assuming the committee doesn't straight out veto it, then if passed, as there seemed to be no amendments, it will then be sent to the suspense file once again. Once the suspense file is reviewed, it will either bill passed or it will fail, as we're in the 2nd year of the 2 year legislative term, so there is no second round for it to pass, in which case it would need to be reintroduced from scratch next year.

At least that's my understanding when I dug this stuff up last year.

I say this because the FPC tends to have a flair for the dramatic, and it is not uncommon to find inaccuracies or not the best framing of bills in their videos (Craig's videos tend to be fine overall though, and I tend to enjoy his style).


Edit:
With all that said... what... didn't CalVIP (the program to prevent violence via grant allocations to counties/cities/etc. for programs that reduce violence) receive like $20 million in the budget or something in lieu of passing this tax? I seem to recall that.

Last edited by BeAuMaN; 01-22-2020 at 9:52 PM..
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  #97  
Old 01-24-2020, 9:01 AM
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FPC is reporting that this bill has been "defeated" by being "held in committee."

Can someone please explain if this is truly a dead bill or if there's a chance that the committee will pick it back up at a future date?
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  #98  
Old 01-24-2020, 9:09 AM
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Originally Posted by socalnonsage View Post
FPC is reporting that this bill has been "defeated" by being "held in committee."

Can someone please explain if this is truly a dead bill or if there's a chance that the committee will pick it back up at a future date?
How is any bill truly dead? The text can always be reintroduced. We have seen it in the pass with vetoed bills only to show up again with minimal changes.
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  #99  
Old 01-24-2020, 10:26 AM
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Originally Posted by socalnonsage View Post
FPC is reporting that this bill has been "defeated" by being "held in committee."

Can someone please explain if this is truly a dead bill or if there's a chance that the committee will pick it back up at a future date?
It sounds like it may be done for this legislative session.

It could always be introduced, from scratch, in the next session.
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  #100  
Old 01-24-2020, 11:53 AM
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The bill will be back in some form and everyone can count on it. The public has to make it pure suicide for any politician to touch it next time around but that will not happen. If it passes then gun sales will drop off and so will DROS fees causing DOJ to raise DROS fees again to "cover" costs. It will of course make gun transfers and sales drop off even further and the tax death spiral will continue until no one is selling guns publicly and all guns will be sold under the table with no records. The feds might not like that considering how many guns we have in this state that are bought and sold on the average everyday and no records thanks to greedy politicians. And what will they do with the overly expensive garbage computer system they failed to develop and the excess employees sitting around with nothing to do because there are no records. A further drain on the taxpayer. Like alcohol and cigarettes they can tax all they want but people will get what they want someway. prohibition proved that.
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  #101  
Old 01-24-2020, 12:01 PM
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Sounds like California still has some reasonable friends of 2A rights in the legislature....Died in Committee?

Newsom's draconian bark seemed worst than his bite after all.
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  #102  
Old 01-24-2020, 12:08 PM
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The frog in the gun-rights pot is thoroughly cooked, but the tax-everything-to-death pot is just now getting warm. As it heats, expect punitive taxes on wealth, non-electric vehicles, private insurance, communities that are too white, and of course, repealing prop-13.

They are still tiptoeing around new taxes for obvious reasons.
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  #103  
Old 01-24-2020, 1:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Robotron2k84 View Post
The frog in the gun-rights pot is thoroughly cooked, but the tax-everything-to-death pot is just now getting warm. As it heats, expect punitive taxes on wealth, non-electric vehicles, private insurance, communities that are too white, and of course, repealing prop-13.

They are still tiptoeing around new taxes for obvious reasons.


They’ve never met a tax they didn’t like. Gotta please all their cronies
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  #104  
Old 01-24-2020, 1:24 PM
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Originally Posted by BeAuMaN View Post
They specifically cite the federal Pittman-Roberston act as precedent, since that puts an excise tax on firearm and ammo manufacturing to pay for park services... though this is different
I didn’t read it but if they are connecting Pittman-Robertson(PR) Act with the park service they are very very wrong. The PR act was self imposed by hunters to pay for wildlife conservation, not pay for national parks, monuments, etc. PR Act funds are divided among the states based on a number of factors that include population and matching of funds from hunting tag/license sales. 100% of the PR Act funds must be spent by the receiving states fish and game/ natural resources department for wildlife conservation. If even a single penny is diverted to any other pot of money the state will loose its future share of this pot of money. It’s an incredible system that has helped to recover numerous species on the brink of extinction.
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  #105  
Old 01-24-2020, 2:05 PM
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Newscum will just do it by executive order and claim it is his right due to his personal beliefs and not what is correct or right. Look what taxes brought the British in 1776.
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  #106  
Old 01-25-2020, 12:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Ridley75 View Post
I didn’t read it but if they are connecting Pittman-Robertson(PR) Act with the park service they are very very wrong. The PR act was self imposed by hunters to pay for wildlife conservation, not pay for national parks, monuments, etc. PR Act funds are divided among the states based on a number of factors that include population and matching of funds from hunting tag/license sales. 100% of the PR Act funds must be spent by the receiving states fish and game/ natural resources department for wildlife conservation. If even a single penny is diverted to any other pot of money the state will loose its future share of this pot of money. It’s an incredible system that has helped to recover numerous species on the brink of extinction.
I misspoke. I meant for fish and game but I said park services. That said the logic for comparing the CalVIP excise tax to Pittman-Robertson is flawed anyway.
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  #107  
Old 01-25-2020, 6:40 AM
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Assembly Calendar 2020.
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Jan. 24 Last day for any committee to hear and report to the floor bills introduced in that house in the odd-numbered year. (J.R. 61(b)(2))
Although it could get resurrected through the “gut and amend” subterfuge, the Dems are reluctant to push another tax related to firearms after boosting the DROS fees last year. And, they’re still stinging from the recall of the Senator who authored the gas tax.

Even the Jarvis anti-tax group finally came out against this.
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  #108  
Old 01-25-2020, 6:46 PM
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[QUOTE=Moemoe1;22405310]And Californians will gladly pay $7 a gallon ^[/QUOTE
For a lot of us, not gladly, but we’ll pay it, if it comes to that.
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  #109  
Old 01-25-2020, 8:10 PM
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[QUOTE=glock7;23823279]
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Originally Posted by Moemoe1 View Post
And Californians will gladly pay $7 a gallon ^[/QUOTE
For a lot of us, not gladly, but we’ll pay it, if it comes to that.
You're replying to a Dec 2018 post.

Since then, the author of the gas tax has been recalled and gas is under $3.00/gal.
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  #110  
Old 01-25-2020, 8:49 PM
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Originally Posted by warbird View Post
The bill will be back in some form and everyone can count on it. The public has to make it pure suicide for any politician to touch it next time around but that will not happen. If it passes then gun sales will drop off and so will DROS fees causing DOJ to raise DROS fees again to "cover" costs. It will of course make gun transfers and sales drop off even further and the tax death spiral will continue until no one is selling guns publicly and all guns will be sold under the table with no records. The feds might not like that considering how many guns we have in this state that are bought and sold on the average everyday and no records thanks to greedy politicians. And what will they do with the overly expensive garbage computer system they failed to develop and the excess employees sitting around with nothing to do because there are no records. A further drain on the taxpayer. Like alcohol and cigarettes they can tax all they want but people will get what they want someway. prohibition proved that.
you are correct, measurable gun sales would drop dramatically
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Old 01-25-2020, 8:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Robotron2k84 View Post
The frog in the gun-rights pot is thoroughly cooked, but the tax-everything-to-death pot is just now getting warm. As it heats, expect punitive taxes on wealth, non-electric vehicles, private insurance, communities that are too white, and of course, repealing prop-13.

They are still tiptoeing around new taxes for obvious reasons.
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  #112  
Old 01-25-2020, 9:47 PM
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[QUOTE=Dvrjon;23823512]
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Originally Posted by glock7 View Post
You're replying to a Dec 2018 post.

Since then, the author of the gas tax has been recalled and gas is under $3.00/gal.
Can you please tell me when and where I could find gas under $3/gallon? I haven't seen anything like that in CA for a very long time.

Last edited by Ishooter; 01-25-2020 at 9:50 PM..
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  #113  
Old 01-25-2020, 9:52 PM
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i just paid $47.10 to transfer a gun this year and what will it be next year? I am predicting it will cost a gun owner close to a $100.00 next year to transfer a gun into his own name and is it worth it to comply with the law? The seller's might not like it but if they want to sell, private or shop, they are going to have to find a way to stop this advancement in taxation/fees before that costs more than the gun is worth. I think i have bought my last gun in california unless the seller is willing to give it away or it is black powder. Buying for cash only out of state might be the only way as illegal as it could be but i am choosing support this crooked system anymore.

gasoline was down to $2.95 last week in east Sacramento and $2.50 in Nevada. But expect it to go back up as summer comes along. the state found other fees to replace the so-called tax increase but that tax is not dead. California politicians will always come crawling back with their hands out for taxes and fees with one hand while holding a knife behind their backs in the other hand to stab the citizen in the back. In my personal opinion the most foul and disgusting thing in california including sewer plants is the state captitol building when it is in full session. One the bright side gun tax/fee increases might force people back into the sport of black powder shooting until the laws change again.

Last edited by warbird; 01-26-2020 at 12:24 AM..
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  #114  
Old 01-26-2020, 6:41 AM
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Can you please tell me when and where I could find gas under $3/gallon? I haven't seen anything like that in CA for a very long time.
I can’t, but Gas Buddy can.
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  #115  
Old 01-28-2020, 1:08 PM
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I guess they want to make firearms ownership only for the privileged that have the means to pay. These new taxes will lock out the law abiding lower income crowd from being able to purchase a firearm, and once purchased if they could just barely afford it, they could not afford to pay the fees associated with a CCW if they wanted to actually use it for defense outside the home. California is such an elitist snob state that considers those in lower income brackets as the unwashed threat.
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  #116  
Old 02-04-2020, 1:03 AM
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Per Article IV Section 10(c) of the California Constitution and Rule 56 of the California Joint Assembly and Senate Rules AB-18 is now dead, having been introduced during the first calendar legislative year (2019) and having not been passed by January 31st of the second calendar legislative year of 2020.



I mean don't be surprised if it gets reintroduced next year or whatever but we take our small victories where we can find them.
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  #117  
Old 02-04-2020, 10:14 AM
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foreppin916 foreppin916 is offline
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Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Sacramento, Commiefornia
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When do we as "law abiding" gun owners stop being "law abiding" because the laws get so ****ing retarded?

No DOJ reading my comment, I wouldnt break any gun laws
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