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Concealed Carry Discussion General discussion regarding CCW/LTC in California

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  #41  
Old 11-28-2019, 6:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeepergeo View Post
I suspect folks that claim to carry multiple mags probably don't carry on body often (or at all) in a civilian setting.
I can't speak for anyone else here, but I carry everyday with a spare mag on body. I have friends who do the same.

I do realize that by the numbers you will win the lottery before you have to use the spare mag.
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  #42  
Old 11-29-2019, 9:31 AM
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Why do you carry? In case you need it.

Why carry a spare mag? .......um.... In case you need it.

Steve



EDC is full size 1911 - would like to carry two spares, but I must confess I only carry 1 (side bolsters of car seat make two difficult).
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  #43  
Old 11-29-2019, 7:47 PM
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I always carry two speed loaders on my belt with my CCW.

Last edited by boattail; 11-30-2019 at 7:58 AM..
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  #44  
Old 11-30-2019, 10:46 AM
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People have said they carry the extra mag in case of malfunction. Why type of malfunction would an extra magazine rectify other than a malfunction of the magazine? I don't have a ton of experience, but I have never heard of the magazine itself failing. is that a thing?

Kate
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  #45  
Old 11-30-2019, 11:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Kate View Post
People have said they carry the extra mag in case of malfunction. Why type of malfunction would an extra magazine rectify other than a malfunction of the magazine? I don't have a ton of experience, but I have never heard of the magazine itself failing. is that a thing?

Kate
Yes, it is.

See, for example, https://www.shootingillustrated.com/...arance-drills/
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Reliable semi-automatic operation depends not only upon the gun working correctly, but also upon properly functioning magazines to feed the firearm, ammunition loaded within the range of pressure levels required to operate the action and loads that feature the correct length and bullet profile to feed smoothly from magazine to chamber. If any leg of that gun/magazine/ammunition triad fails, a malfunction can occur and temporarily stop the operation.
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  #46  
Old 12-01-2019, 8:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Kate View Post
People have said they carry the extra mag in case of malfunction. Why type of malfunction would an extra magazine rectify other than a malfunction of the magazine? I don't have a ton of experience, but I have never heard of the magazine itself failing. is that a thing?

Kate
The malfunction that most people carry an extra magazine for would be a double feed as you have to take the magazine out of the gun to clear it and at that point you would put the fresh magazine in. The main issue with that is if you have time to clear a double feed then you need to be getting away and not standing there clearing a double feed. You could however be in a position where you have nowhere to go.
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  #47  
Old 12-01-2019, 9:44 AM
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2 is 1. 1 is none. Carry 2.
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  #48  
Old 12-01-2019, 12:09 PM
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I always carry a spare mag or speed loader. Don’t most all cars have a spare tire? It’s called redundant safety equipment. It’s there just in case one needs it.
Same with a spare reload. Dress for the CCW is how I live in todays world. My .02 cents.
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  #49  
Old 12-01-2019, 3:31 PM
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I get all the good points about a spare magazine. My approach is not to carry a spare mag. I feel my CCW is my back-up. Situational awareness, means to escape or not engage, are the first line of my self defense protocol. If those don't work, then yes my CCW is the back-up plan. I don't carry a shotgun or rifle either regardless of the laws.
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  #50  
Old 12-01-2019, 4:30 PM
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Originally Posted by robert101 View Post
I get all the good points about a spare magazine. My approach is not to carry a spare mag. I feel my CCW is my back-up. Situational awareness, means to escape or not engage, are the first line of my self defense protocol. If those don't work, then yes my CCW is the back-up plan. I don't carry a shotgun or rifle either regardless of the laws.
I think we all agree with this, but what if you have to engage multiple assailants and/or do encounter (most likely) a mag malfunction. What’s Plan C? Since you already tried retreating and you have engaged, should your assailant still pursue after you made one or two shots, then?
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  #51  
Old 12-01-2019, 6:53 PM
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My Sig p365 holds 12 + 1 so basic day-to-day I only carried that however if I'm going to be gone all day or out of town I will carry two extra mags since my mag holster holds two. If I need to use 37 rounds I'm probably having a very bad day.
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  #52  
Old 12-01-2019, 7:30 PM
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Originally Posted by 9Cal_OC View Post
I think we all agree with this, but what if you have to engage multiple assailants and/or do encounter (most likely) a mag malfunction. What’s Plan C? Since you already tried retreating and you have engaged, should your assailant still pursue after you made one or two shots, then?
^^^Agreed.

Now I don’t carry spare mag(s) for a mag malfunction per se (which is highly unlikely, but alas possible). I carry extra bullets to shoot multiple bad guys hell bent on attacking me.

Extra ammo is akin to carrying a bigger hammer for the job.
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  #53  
Old 12-03-2019, 12:59 PM
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I carry my shield and a spare magazine 99 percent of the time. I have a tulster mag carrier but often slide the extra in my front pocket. I practice this way at the range. It's actually pretty quick. I want the rounds and the malfunction clearing tool.
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  #54  
Old 12-03-2019, 3:31 PM
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Nope. I carry 9 rounds in my Shield and that's it. Maybe I'll consider it if going into a real sketchy area.
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  #55  
Old 12-03-2019, 6:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Roering View Post
Nope. I carry 9 rounds in my Shield and that's it. Maybe I'll consider it if going into a real sketchy area.
Why would you go someplace you consider 'sketchy'?

At least, if it were voluntary - I consider a lot of parking structures to be sketchy, but people gotta work and gotta park their cars, so some venturing into the sketchy can be required.
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  #56  
Old 12-04-2019, 9:30 AM
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I always find it interesting when someone says they only carry an extra mag when they go to wherever. I don't think anyone is able to pick the time or place when they will need to use their defensive firearm, or when and if you are going to experience a malfunction.

Yeah there are places that may be worse than others, but at the same time there are better softer unprepared targets for the criminal element outside of those areas. High end shopping centers seem to be a favorite target this time of year.

I think most of us would agree that if the unthinkable were to happen we would want more than we need, rather than just enough. I tend to think of it like putting gas in the truck, do I fill it, or just put enough to get me there and back?
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  #57  
Old 12-04-2019, 9:55 AM
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Legal CCW guy for more than 10 years here. I would like to yes always, but I have to admit I don't always, it kinda depends on risk of where I am what I am doing. Probability of ever needing a firearm is pretty darn low to start with even here in the lovely Bay Area, maybe higher than most but low. Next most civilian type shooting incidents are about 3 rounds, statistically speaking. The typical incident is a very short time span, a few seconds, time to re-load or clearing bad mag again further reduces odds of actually utilizing the spare mag. Most average citizens are not ever going to be engaging multi bad guys or purposely place themselves in harms way like LEOs. My thinking is training, using a very dependable, well maintained weapon, shooting regularly, practice access "draw", attending professional training are all far and away more likely to help you in the "gravest extreme". That being said, options are always a good thing but lets face it carrying and caring for more stuff on your person is a PITA. What do I carry? Japanese Nambu with vintage ammo

Just teasing. I resisted the glock coolaid for years but have to admit, they do go bang. As a percent I carry a spare on my person about 60% of time. I have spare mags in vehicle, carefully tucked away.
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  #58  
Old 12-04-2019, 10:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Roering View Post
Nope. I carry 9 rounds in my Shield and that's it. Maybe I'll consider it if going into a real sketchy area.
Anywhere can become "sketchy".

I don't think anyone ever got out of a gunfight alive regretted bringing more ammo. An extra Shield mag is the size of a pocket knife.

I'm looking at a floorplate with a clip for my weak side pocket.
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  #59  
Old 12-13-2019, 1:50 PM
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With today's threat environment, you'd be positively insane to NOT carry at least a couple spare magazines.

True, the chances of you getting caught up in a terrorist or mass shooting incident are extremely low, but they are higher now than they were 10 or 20 years ago.

Carrying multiple extra magazines takes virtually zero effort but might possibly mean the difference between life or death.

At the very least carry 2 in case the mag in your gun malfunctions.
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  #60  
Old 01-08-2020, 8:18 PM
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For malfunctions and replenishment, but also just to even out the load.
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  #61  
Old 01-09-2020, 8:28 AM
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The thought experiment is simple (for me).

I've just experienced That Event wherein I've pulled the trigger. I don't know what led to that, but now I'm not dead yet and I've got empty space in my cylinder or magazine.

Are the cops there, is there more than one bad guy, etc...who knows?

With the sole exception of the cops already being there and having taken control, you bet your heinie that I'd want to top that thing off back to full no matter what. I'd feel like a real moron if I knew I'd left my speed strip or extra mag at home in such a situation.
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  #62  
Old 01-09-2020, 11:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RLW View Post
The malfunction that most people carry an extra magazine for would be a double feed as you have to take the magazine out of the gun to clear it and at that point you would put the fresh magazine in. The main issue with that is if you have time to clear a double feed then you need to be getting away and not standing there clearing a double feed. You could however be in a position where you have nowhere to go.
A number of malfunctions can result from a faulty magazine, not just double feeds.

Failure to feeds, short stroking, and other cycling-related malfunctions can occur as a result of a faulty magazine. In fact, most malfunctions are a result of a faulty magazine. They are the second most common causes of malfunctions, first one being user-induced malfunctions. Luckily the fix for these types of malfunctions is a different magazine.
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  #63  
Old 01-10-2020, 7:49 AM
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A number of malfunctions can result from a faulty magazine, not just double feeds.

Failure to feeds, short stroking, and other cycling-related malfunctions can occur as a result of a faulty magazine. In fact, most malfunctions are a result of a faulty magazine. They are the second most common causes of malfunctions, first one being user-induced malfunctions. Luckily the fix for these types of malfunctions is a different magazine.
The problem again is that by the time you tap rack and attempt to fire and then have to swap out your magazine and cycle the slide again you have spent a lot of valuable time where you could have been running away or even running at your attacker. In the event that you are going to a second magazine you really need to be getting to some cond of cover or concealment in the process.

In addition to that if you have quality magazines and have used them to make sure they function you probably won't have a magazine malfunction. I don't have any statistics to back this up but I'm guessing most malfunctions that happen in a defensive shooting are related to really bad equipment, poor grip on the firearm, or someone is entangled with their attacker and the slide is not allowed to cycle completely.

Again, I always carry an extra magazine but the chances it gets used are really small.
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  #64  
Old 01-10-2020, 8:14 AM
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Two tiers of carry with M&P.
Tier 1, no extra mag, is EDC around my normal places.
Tier 2, one extra mag, is for restaurants, movie theaters, or other public events.
If I need more than that, I shouldnt be there.
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  #65  
Old 01-10-2020, 3:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RLW View Post
The problem again is that by the time you tap rack and attempt to fire and then have to swap out your magazine and cycle the slide again you have spent a lot of valuable time where you could have been running away or even running at your attacker. In the event that you are going to a second magazine you really need to be getting to some cond of cover or concealment in the process.

In addition to that if you have quality magazines and have used them to make sure they function you probably won't have a magazine malfunction. I don't have any statistics to back this up but I'm guessing most malfunctions that happen in a defensive shooting are related to really bad equipment, poor grip on the firearm, or someone is entangled with their attacker and the slide is not allowed to cycle completely.

Again, I always carry an extra magazine but the chances it gets used are really small.
Totally agree, malfunctions is just one of the reasons why I have a spare. The chances of having to use my gun to protect myself are very slim, but then again, we don't carry for the 99.8% of the time when we're safe right?
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  #66  
Old 01-10-2020, 4:25 PM
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Yes, at least one spare in body, several in center console.
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Old 01-10-2020, 5:10 PM
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- too much tactitard "firefight" speculation.

- stats say 2-3 rounds OR less for virtually all ccw situations

- that means reality is not an action-movie

- I carry a jframe or a lcr

- 5 shots

- I practice hitting the target all 5 times

- I think autos have steered some people towards "spray and pray and reload" versus "bang, got ya x 5"

- that's just my 2 cents

- ultimately the true answer is do whatever works for you...

- but do respect the stats, ccw encounters end in 3 shots or less... not 18 plus 5 reloads and a hand grenade and an A-10 airstrike with nuclear sub support..
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Old 01-11-2020, 4:53 PM
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Better to have it and not need it. I'm not going to count on being lucky to end a fight in 2-3 rounds. Just like I won't leave my gas tank less than a quarter full just because I have a short commute to work.
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Old 01-11-2020, 5:06 PM
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Stare down 3 BGs at once, is 10 enough?

You should fire until the treat is neutralized, that's what a CCW is for. Look at all the OICs involving excited delirium.

Last edited by fawndog; 01-11-2020 at 5:16 PM..
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  #70  
Old 01-11-2020, 5:10 PM
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Worst case scenario for me would to be caught in an active shooter(s) situation. The world today is more violent than it used to be. So yes, I always carry a spare magazine.


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  #71  
Old 01-11-2020, 5:52 PM
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Not to mention criminals are operating in packs and using body armor more.
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  #72  
Old 01-21-2020, 10:11 AM
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glock 19 4 o'clock IWB with standard cap mag. glock 17 mag with +3 baseplate in my back mag pocket. In case things really get hairy.
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  #73  
Old 01-22-2020, 11:04 PM
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I carry a spare mag in a neomag pocket holder. Works well, is very discreet, and keeps the mag readily available and in proper position i. your pocket, front or rear. Very well made but expensive. You must have steel or steel lined poly mags for it to work.


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  #74  
Old 01-23-2020, 1:18 AM
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There was a bear attack in Wyoming a few years ago where the magazine release was punched in the confusion and was just as useful as a paperweight. There was an empty gun and full magazine at the scene. The guy was killed by the bear. Not saying that he would have had time to pop a new magazine in, but gets me thinking it wouldn't be a bad idea to have an extra if you accidentally hit the mag release sometime, might even be possible to release it in a holster in carry and you just notice it is gone? Many guns have a magazine disconnect so you wouldn't even have a single shot.
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  #75  
Old 01-23-2020, 10:11 AM
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Relying on statistics, is a risky proposition when it comes to self defense. There are always anomalies that don't fit the statistical model. If we rely on statistics alone why carry a gun at all? I'm certain that there are plenty of statistics that say the chances of being attacked in public are pretty rare.

Of course the other statement against carrying extra ammo is that "I hit what I shoot at". That's all well and fine, but does that include hitting a moving target, while moving, more than likely in low light, under what will no doubt be the highest level of stress most of us will ever experience? It's really difficult to simulate that level of stress in training. Something in our minds allows us to know that shooting a target that can't fight back means we aren't really in a high risk situation.
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  #76  
Old 01-23-2020, 11:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by starlight View Post
- stats say 2-3 rounds OR less for virtually all ccw situations
You do realize those stats include cops shooting themselves. So you have a bunch of 1 shot within 1 ft negligent discharges skewing the overall numbers.
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  #77  
Old 02-06-2020, 9:15 AM
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Always.

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