Calguns.net  

Home My iTrader Join the NRA Donate to CGSSA Sponsors CGN Google Search
CA Semiauto Ban(AW)ID Flowchart CA Handgun Ban ID Flowchart CA Shotgun Ban ID Flowchart
Go Back   Calguns.net > OUTDOORS, HUNTING AND SURVIVAL > Hunting and Fishing
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read

Hunting and Fishing Rifle, Shotgun, Handgun, Archery, Blackpowder Saltwater and Fresh Water

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 02-26-2020, 12:34 PM
1meanchevy's Avatar
1meanchevy 1meanchevy is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Nakatomi Plaza
Posts: 1,474
iTrader: 27 / 100%
Default Lead ammo & Ground Squirrels

So, what are you squirrel guys going to do out there? Options are limited and quite costly to change over to Nosler or Varmint grenades, especially those that invested into varmint caliber rifles in the past (.17's , 22. mags and hornets. etc).
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 02-26-2020, 12:35 PM
edgerly779 edgerly779 is online now
CGN/CGSSA Contributor
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: canoga park, ca
Posts: 14,108
iTrader: 94 / 100%
Default

pellet gun or copper 223 s. are 10-12 cents per bullet[ time to reload

Last edited by edgerly779; 02-26-2020 at 3:27 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 02-26-2020, 12:39 PM
NoHeavyHitter's Avatar
NoHeavyHitter NoHeavyHitter is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: The panhandle of ID
Posts: 2,159
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default

I use RWS pellets in my .22 cal RWS 350-magnum. They work great on the over-population of squirrels we had last year. I see no reason to shoot those exotic non-lead pellets since in my experience all they do is cost more.
__________________
Calling illegal aliens “undocumented immigrants” is like calling drug dealers “unlicensed pharmacists”…
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 02-26-2020, 12:41 PM
edgerly779 edgerly779 is online now
CGN/CGSSA Contributor
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: canoga park, ca
Posts: 14,108
iTrader: 94 / 100%
Default

No restrictions on lead in airguns.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 02-26-2020, 12:44 PM
1meanchevy's Avatar
1meanchevy 1meanchevy is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Nakatomi Plaza
Posts: 1,474
iTrader: 27 / 100%
Default

Yeah, but airguns are useless on high desert windy alphalpha feilds.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 02-26-2020, 12:46 PM
CartridgeCalls's Avatar
CartridgeCalls CartridgeCalls is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: (West Side) Palmdale, CA
Posts: 179
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Default

The CCI copper work well and are affordable. If nothing else it will make us all better shots by costing more.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 02-26-2020, 1:13 PM
NoHeavyHitter's Avatar
NoHeavyHitter NoHeavyHitter is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: The panhandle of ID
Posts: 2,159
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by edgerly779 View Post
No restrictions on lead in airguns.
EXACTLY!

If the squirrels are up in trees (like where they are in my area), then shooting upwards has the potential to hit houses 20 acres away. Knowing where your bullets go is necessary to avoid hitting other houses.

Now, ground squirrels are another story..
__________________
Calling illegal aliens “undocumented immigrants” is like calling drug dealers “unlicensed pharmacists”…
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 02-26-2020, 1:16 PM
elk hunter elk hunter is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Idaho
Posts: 1,780
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

You mean no restrictions on lead in airguns.........yet.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 02-26-2020, 2:12 PM
deckhandmike's Avatar
deckhandmike deckhandmike is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Morro Bay
Posts: 5,914
iTrader: 5 / 100%
Default

.17hmr copper isn’t that expensive. I guess you could use a airgun if pinching pennies.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 02-26-2020, 2:13 PM
CVShooter CVShooter is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 829
iTrader: 3 / 100%
Default

Admittedly, it's very satisfying to pop a ground squirrel from 60+ yards away with a pellet gun. Without the crack of the rifle, you really hear the smack of the pellet hitting them. I have a couple "budget" PCPs but some of those setups out there are downright awe-inspiring. And with none of the legal beagles to dictate what is a rifle vs pistol, they come in some incredible designs that you can't get with any powder burner.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 02-26-2020, 2:17 PM
CVShooter CVShooter is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 829
iTrader: 3 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by deckhandmike View Post
.17hmr copper isn’t that expensive. I guess you could use a airgun if pinching pennies.
Airguns are cheap in ammo to shoot but easily as expensive or more expensive as a platform to shoot from. Lately, I've been drooling over some of the FX bullpups. They run about $1500+ just for the rifle. And if you spend $1500+ on the rifle, guess what kind of glass is sitting on there. Add in your carbon fiber tanks, compressor, magazines, etc. and suddenly, you realize that you may not be saving anything.

My hatsan only cost about $500 & has fairly cheap glass on it. It works great. But that's certainly the budget line.

Last edited by CVShooter; 02-26-2020 at 2:20 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 02-26-2020, 2:56 PM
WOODY2 WOODY2 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 374
iTrader: 21 / 100%
Default

But aren' they going to die from lead anyway?
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 02-26-2020, 3:18 PM
JackEllis JackEllis is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: NorCal Mountains
Posts: 1,798
iTrader: 37 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1meanchevy View Post
So, what are you squirrel guys going to do out there? Options are limited and quite costly to change over to Nosler or Varmint grenades, especially those that invested into varmint caliber rifles in the past (.17's , 22. mags and hornets. etc).
For California, 15.5 grain NTX in .17 HMR. For everywhere else, I've got all kinds of stuff. I'm leaning toward everywhere else these days.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 02-26-2020, 4:33 PM
boattail's Avatar
boattail boattail is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 134
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

I have used several flavors of 17 HMR in lead free and I load for the wildcat 20 Practical on three AR15 uppers. I started using a few lead free bullets 5 years ago just to get a sense of them. Barnes Varmint Grenades in .204 will shoot well with the right speed and right bullet jump. Get the wrong speed or jump in your loads and they are all over the map. In .223 the BVG's are a horrid bullet for me and a buddy that tried them. Neither of us could get groups under and inch with them in our .223's. The Hornady NTX 24g in .204 is an explosive round when pushed to 4100 fps. Accuracy is not bad at 3/4" for me but distances drop a little with that light bullet. I have a 32g Nosler bullet doing very well too. I have a 50g Nosler in .223 that is a tack driver. I bought some really light .223 bullets from Nosler but have not developed them yet.

What I will say about all the lead free loads, both factory and my reloads, is you loose about 1/3 your normal shooting distance accuracy. What I could do with a 17 HMR at 200 yards with a leaded round is cut back to under 150 yards with lead free. I have a leaded 20 practical round that is a laser beam out to 300 yards...my lead free loads for the 20p work best in the 200 yard max range and those little 24g NTX's like 150 or less.

I did an experiment with the 17 HMR lead free from CCI and Hornady and I shot 130 squirrels in a row without missing. I missed on the 131st critter. This was over 1.5 hours and distances from 50-100 yards in a small field. I switched to leaded ammo and shot those until I missed again in the same distances. Same results as I did not miss until over 100 more critters fell and I took some less than ideal head shots.

I have yet to pick up any 22lr in lead free as I only keep one rifle with 22's on my shooting trailer for those critters that pop up under me. Other than the speedy 204's all the lead free bullets are fairly undramatic as far as splat factor. The absolute worst bullet I shot in .204 was the Speer TNT leaded 39g bullet. It would knife right through a critter and they would have a delayed reaction before falling over. The best heavy hitter for me in .204 is the 40g Vmax leaded.....laser flat and a huge punch when they hit with explosive results. The most smiles per trigger pull have to be the 24g NTX at 100 yards and under.....you run your scope down to low power so you can see a wide angle and watch the pieces fly!

Currently in 20 Prac. I am using 26g BVG's at 4000 fps with good results, 24g NTX at 4100 fps with great explosive hits, and 32g Noslers with great accuracy.

In .223 I have the 50g Noslers and some 32g Noslers yet to be developed.

I want my leaded rounds back!

In 17 HMR I run the 15.5g in Winchester and have 4-5k of those on hand.

Last edited by boattail; 02-26-2020 at 4:46 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 02-26-2020, 8:08 PM
oddjob oddjob is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Lodi, California
Posts: 2,340
iTrader: 30 / 100%
Default

17 WSM- Win lead free (only one out there).

17 hmr- I like the the CCI 16 grn. In my CZ 455 it seems to be fairly decent in the "pop" department and accuracy combo. I tried the 15.5 hmr and the lot I used didn't have the "pop" I like. Maybe I'll get some more & try again.

17 Hornet- I load the 15.5 gr. Just the velocity alone blows them up.

Lead free doesn't "pop" the squirrels like leaded stuff and I agree not as accurate.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 02-26-2020, 10:27 PM
1meanchevy's Avatar
1meanchevy 1meanchevy is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Nakatomi Plaza
Posts: 1,474
iTrader: 27 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by boattail View Post
I have used several flavors of 17 HMR in lead free and I load for the wildcat 20 Practical on three AR15 uppers. I started using a few lead free bullets 5 years ago just to get a sense of them. Barnes Varmint Grenades in .204 will shoot well with the right speed and right bullet jump. Get the wrong speed or jump in your loads and they are all over the map. In .223 the BVG's are a horrid bullet for me and a buddy that tried them. Neither of us could get groups under and inch with them in our .223's. The Hornady NTX 24g in .204 is an explosive round when pushed to 4100 fps. Accuracy is not bad at 3/4" for me but distances drop a little with that light bullet. I have a 32g Nosler bullet doing very well too. I have a 50g Nosler in .223 that is a tack driver. I bought some really light .223 bullets from Nosler but have not developed them yet.

What I will say about all the lead free loads, both factory and my reloads, is you loose about 1/3 your normal shooting distance accuracy. What I could do with a 17 HMR at 200 yards with a leaded round is cut back to under 150 yards with lead free. I have a leaded 20 practical round that is a laser beam out to 300 yards...my lead free loads for the 20p work best in the 200 yard max range and those little 24g NTX's like 150 or less.

I did an experiment with the 17 HMR lead free from CCI and Hornady and I shot 130 squirrels in a row without missing. I missed on the 131st critter. This was over 1.5 hours and distances from 50-100 yards in a small field. I switched to leaded ammo and shot those until I missed again in the same distances. Same results as I did not miss until over 100 more critters fell and I took some less than ideal head shots.

I have yet to pick up any 22lr in lead free as I only keep one rifle with 22's on my shooting trailer for those critters that pop up under me. Other than the speedy 204's all the lead free bullets are fairly undramatic as far as splat factor. The absolute worst bullet I shot in .204 was the Speer TNT leaded 39g bullet. It would knife right through a critter and they would have a delayed reaction before falling over. The best heavy hitter for me in .204 is the 40g Vmax leaded.....laser flat and a huge punch when they hit with explosive results. The most smiles per trigger pull have to be the 24g NTX at 100 yards and under.....you run your scope down to low power so you can see a wide angle and watch the pieces fly!

Currently in 20 Prac. I am using 26g BVG's at 4000 fps with good results, 24g NTX at 4100 fps with great explosive hits, and 32g Noslers with great accuracy.

In .223 I have the 50g Noslers and some 32g Noslers yet to be developed.

I want my leaded rounds back!

In 17 HMR I run the 15.5g in Winchester and have 4-5k of those on hand.
Good stuff here , thanks. Im deep into my .223's with higher end barrels, so I guess im just going to have to find Noslers somewhere (sold out most everywhere). And somehow pull down all my V-Maxs🙁🙁
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 02-27-2020, 2:26 AM
stevec223 stevec223 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 1,414
iTrader: 28 / 100%
Default

I’ve gotten Excellent accuracy with 40gr nosler lead free and Win 748 powder... Mag primers... A longish bullet that still works in my 1-12 thru 1-7 twist barrels.. Suprised me on that point...
They are filled with copper dust like the barnes vg ,, and tear ++++ up...
Cheers...
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 02-27-2020, 2:34 AM
edgerly779 edgerly779 is online now
CGN/CGSSA Contributor
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: canoga park, ca
Posts: 14,108
iTrader: 94 / 100%
Default

If you like to spend a lot on bullets buy nosler. For cheaper .223 buy 55 gr solid copper for 12 cents a bullet. Watch for nosler seconds sales.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 02-27-2020, 5:30 AM
JackEllis JackEllis is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: NorCal Mountains
Posts: 1,798
iTrader: 37 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by edgerly779 View Post
If you like to spend a lot on bullets buy nosler. For cheaper .223 buy 55 gr solid copper for 12 cents a bullet. Watch for nosler seconds sales.

...which puts them at about the same price point as VMAX.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 02-27-2020, 7:33 AM
boattail's Avatar
boattail boattail is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 134
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1meanchevy View Post
Good stuff here , thanks. Im deep into my .223's with higher end barrels, so I guess im just going to have to find Noslers somewhere (sold out most everywhere). And somehow pull down all my V-Maxs����
I'm running a factory 112 from 2009 with a 1:9 twist and Nightforce glass on my .223. Here is the last work up on the Nosler load and final confirmation group.....



The Savage is the big one in the center of the picture here....



The .165 jump load did not proof out, I loaded the .120 jump and the .165 jump and shot them a few more times and the .120 jump is the one that consistently shot small so I kept that loading.

Last edited by boattail; 02-27-2020 at 7:40 AM..
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 4:09 PM.




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Proudly hosted by GeoVario the Premier 2A host.
Calguns.net, the 'Calguns' name and all associated variants and logos are ® Trademark and © Copyright 2002-2020, Calguns.net an Incorporated Company All Rights Reserved.
All opinions, statements and remarks made by Calguns.net on this web site and elsewhere are solely attributable to Calguns.net.
Tactical Pants Tactical Boots Tactical Gear Military Boots 5.11 Tactical