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  #1  
Old 05-13-2022, 4:56 PM
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Default Palmetto State Armory - BUYER BEWARE !

Hey guys I've not been over on this forum much lately and thought this was important enough to come let you all know . Bought this from PSA and it arrived yesterday . https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-...e-kit-red.html

I didn't have time to take a close look yesterday but did today . Upon looking at the barrel I noticed it says Freedom where it also has the 5.56 1-7 markings . Hmm I had to go log into my account to double check but I was pretty sure nowhere in the description did it say it was a Freedom upper . I did go look and it does not state anywhere the barrel is a Freedom barrel . In fact nowhere in the description or specs does the word Freedom come up .

This gave me real concerns because I think we all know how bad that Freedom line was . So bad in fact they had to pull it all together or stop printing freedom on there parts .

I contacted PSA this afternoon and started a online chat with a rep . It took an hour and a half of the rep beating around the bush and putting me on hold for them to admit it is in fact there bottom tier barrel . This was after the rep telling me the Freedom written on the barrel is just something they do now and it's just a name they give parts . I then asked a straight forward question and she finally said it is a "freedom" barrel not one of there standard barrels they just stamp Freedom on now .

Reps says I can send it back and get the kit I want I did get the kit I wanted , you are the one that sent me a barrel not described in the spec sheet . She didn't have much to say about that .

I'm in blue







I know there QC and CS has been questioned in the past but I thought this was extra sneaky and she danced around my questions for over an hour until I pinned her down on a yes or know question . I'm glad she finally admitted it because I knew it was not there standard barrel because I have several and none of them say Freedom on them .

Anyways look out they are shipping Freedom spec components with out making it clear in the description that is what you are buying .

MG
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  #2  
Old 05-13-2022, 5:28 PM
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Great. Like proclaiming Harbor Freight makes cheap junk tools and rebrands garbage. Pretty much know everywhere and is something you expect when you buy it.
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  #3  
Old 05-13-2022, 5:38 PM
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Please let us know how it ends up..

Your right, that kit should not have come with a Freedom barrel. I'm a big fan of PSA, I've been pretty lucky so far with their parts and kits. I just got a Dissipator upper yesterday. I guess I should remove the stock and look a little closer.
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  #4  
Old 05-13-2022, 5:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Metal God View Post
Hey guys I've not been over on this forum much lately and thought this was important enough to come let you all know . Bought this from PSA and it arrived yesterday . https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-...e-kit-red.html

I didn't have time to take a close look yesterday but did today.
MG


There is no upper tier quality PSA. If you mainly want cheap, that’s what you get with PSA. Return it, spend more money somewhere else and buy something that will last you without worrying about questionable quality.
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Old 05-13-2022, 6:02 PM
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Originally Posted by jcwatchdog View Post
There is no upper tier quality PSA. If you mainly want cheap, that’s what you get with PSA. Return it, spend more money somewhere else and buy something that will last you without worrying about questionable quality.
Unfortunately sir you are incorrect. Palmetto State Armorys top-of-the-line products are FN products
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Old 05-13-2022, 6:20 PM
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To the OP, I just went and checked four of my A.R. 15’s that have Palmetto State Armory uppers on them and none of them say freedom and then when I looked at my orders online they all say they’re classic kits if that helps any. I do have to agree with you but I don’t really like what they did but normally Palmetto State Armory is very good and they stand behind their stuff yes they’re super busy lately but that’s nothing new I’ve always stood behind the products and I’ve been a customer of theirs for over 10 years and probably had at least a dozen plus uppers
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  #7  
Old 05-13-2022, 6:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Jeffjohns View Post
Unfortunately sir you are incorrect. Palmetto State Armorys top-of-the-line products are FN products
That is what I thought also. I thought now days they only have two grades, the FN chrome lined and everything else.
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Old 05-13-2022, 7:16 PM
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The OP's link to PSA shows

Brand: Palmetto State Armory

If they provided something else, I'd hope they would take care of you including return shipping. If they jerk your chain too hard or jack you around for too long, just dispute the purchase with your credit card company and you will win. You did buy with a credit card and not a debit card, right?

I thought it was hilarious that someone would spend 1.5 hours with customer service when it's so easy to just do a credit card dispute.
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Old 05-13-2022, 7:57 PM
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Just checked they still have some labeled Freedom. The PTAC label is the one they dropped I think.
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Old 05-13-2022, 8:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Jeepergeo View Post
I thought it was hilarious that someone would spend 1.5 hours with customer service when it's so easy to just do a credit card dispute.
It’s a chat, likely the OP was working and chatting with CS at the same time
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  #11  
Old 05-13-2022, 11:44 PM
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Quote:
Just checked they still have some labeled Freedom. The PTAC label is the one they dropped I think.
I'll start here because you are correct and my thinking was wrong . The Freedom line is not the one they dropped it was the P-Tac that was garbage . This gives me some hope . I'm going to take it out Sunday and give it a go on a different lower . I'll throw a nice scope on it and shoot a few different match ammo's out of it and see how it does .

As far as charge backs or returning that will be determined after Sundays range trip .

Without to much detail I have a few of there products with varying results . Everything from sub MOA best shooting AR I own to canted front sights base or 308 chamber .001 short of field gauge . It really is a hit or mis with them .

I'll defiantly keep the thread updated to include pics of the targets along with other targets shot with other products of there's for comparison using the same ammo .
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I write almost everything in a jovial manner regardless of content . If that's not how you took it please try again
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Old 05-14-2022, 12:53 AM
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Do you remember which line up is your best shooting AR from PSA? Is it the premium line with FN barrel?
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Old 05-14-2022, 5:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Metal God View Post
I'll start here because you are correct and my thinking was wrong . The Freedom line is not the one they dropped it was the P-Tac that was garbage . This gives me some hope . I'm going to take it out Sunday and give it a go on a different lower . I'll throw a nice scope on it and shoot a few different match ammo's out of it and see how it does .
IMO...
Their Freedom Line is still bottom tier.
Their PTAC line was worse than their Freedom Line. Which is why it eventually got dropped.


Quote:
Originally Posted by TMB 1 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeffjohns View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by jcwatchdog View Post
There is no upper tier quality PSA. If you mainly want cheap, that’s what you get with PSA. Return it, spend more money somewhere else and buy something that will last you without worrying about questionable quality.
Unfortunately sir you are incorrect. Palmetto State Armorys top-of-the-line products are FN products
That is what I thought also. I thought now days they only have two grades, the FN chrome lined and everything else.
Their Premium Line is their upper tier products.

AFAIK... third party testing (MG rental services that used PSA stuff) had the PSA Premium Line uppers rated on par with Colt and Daniel Defense uppers, in regards to reliability and durability.
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  #14  
Old 05-14-2022, 6:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Metal God View Post
I'll start here because you are correct and my thinking was wrong . The Freedom line is not the one they dropped it was the P-Tac that was garbage . This gives me some hope . I'm going to take it out Sunday and give it a go on a different lower . I'll throw a nice scope on it and shoot a few different match ammo's out of it and see how it does .

As far as charge backs or returning that will be determined after Sundays range trip .

Without to much detail I have a few of there products with varying results . Everything from sub MOA best shooting AR I own to canted front sights base or 308 chamber .001 short of field gauge . It really is a hit or mis with them .

I'll defiantly keep the thread updated to include pics of the targets along with other targets shot with other products of there's for comparison using the same ammo .
How can you not be ashamed of all the BS put out and then say that? Same goes for the pile on.

Typical stuff so often seen, someone buys something then complains and starts with the Buyer Beware and they didn't even try the product or shoot the barrel/rifle/pistol.

If you know about the hit or miss then why even buy anything from them? This is all a bunch of BS and you sit there post copies of chat and then don't have the courage to go back and clean up the title of the thread.

Buyer Beware? Given how you've conducted yourself here were I PSA I'd refund your money instantly, pay to have the products returned and never sell you anything ever again.

This is so typical around here it's amazing. People cry about the finish in some bore and never having even shot it run to the forum to complain and get sympathy replies. Then there is the pile on and they've never even fired one round through the barrel. Just amazing.





.




.
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  #15  
Old 05-14-2022, 6:34 AM
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Quote:
Typical stuff so often seen, someone buys something then complains and starts with the Buyer Beware and they didn't even try the product or shoot the barrel/rifle/pistol.

If you know about the hit or miss then why even buy anything from them? This is all a bunch of BS and you sit there post copies of chat and then don't have the courage to go back and clean up the title of the thread.

Buyer Beware? Given how you've conducted yourself here were I PSA I'd refund your money instantly, pay to have the products returned and never sell you anything ever again.
There is nothing to Correct or clean up . The title is accurate, the freedom line is it’s own line and it should say the products you were buying in the description are part of the freedom line and it does not. As far as hit and miss , maybe that needs some cleanup . I’ve never got a product from them that does not work so I’m not regards everything from them as a hit. The hit and miss aspect is how well it works . My 308 works just fine, accurate enough but it’s brass for dinner by stretching the best the brass .011” from head to datum . Is that a miss , technically no but in my mind it is .

Maybe you put tone and inflection to my words that were not intended . The point of the thread was to inform others that PSA is not shipping the exact products in the description and is why the buyer beware is in the title . Also to point out how customer service tried their best to avoid admitting that until push came to shove sort of speak .

As to returning it . Why would I with out trying it first as you point out . It “may” turn out to be my best shooter . That does not change the fact they tried a bait and switch IMO .
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allow the existence, occurrence, or practice of (something that one does not necessarily like or agree with) without interference.

Anyone else find it sad that those who preach tolerance CAN'T allow the existence, occurrence, or practice of (something that they do not necessarily like or agree with) without interference.

I write almost everything in a jovial manner regardless of content . If that's not how you took it please try again

Last edited by Metal God; 05-14-2022 at 6:40 AM..
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Old 05-14-2022, 7:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Metal God View Post
There is nothing to Correct or clean up . The title is accurate, the freedom line is it’s own line and it should say the products you were buying in the description are part of the freedom line and it does not. As far as hit and miss , maybe that needs some cleanup . I’ve never got a product from them that does not work so I’m not regards everything from them as a hit. The hit and miss aspect is how well it works . My 308 works just fine, accurate enough but it’s brass for dinner by stretching the best the brass .011” from head to datum . Is that a miss , technically no but in my mind it is .

Maybe you put tone and inflection to my words that were not intended . The point of the thread was to inform others that PSA is not shipping the exact products in the description and is why the buyer beware is in the title . Also to point out how customer service tried their best to avoid admitting that until push came to shove sort of speak .

As to returning it . Why would I with out trying it first as you point out . It “may” turn out to be my best shooter . That does not change the fact they tried a bait and switch IMO .
"This gave me real concerns because I think we all know how bad that Freedom line was . So bad in fact they had to pull it all together or stop printing freedom on there parts ."

So who is the we all know? Then you said this later:" The Freedom line is not the one they dropped it was the P-Tac that was garbage "

Who did the bait and switch? That would be you right? You didn't check, posted and then let the first statement stand and that is what everyone sees first.

You got miffed because it was stamped Freedom and attributed what happened with something else to the one you got. Granted, you didn't ask for a barrel stamped Freedom but that wasn't the real concern and the proof is in your own words.

Sorry to disagree and call this out but it isn't fair and you know it. What you could have done just as easily is made a request to send the barrel back and have them send you out the one you ordered right? You played some gotcha stuff, read your post. Companies make mistakes. Maybe you got someone on the horn who happened to pick up your chat line.

You also don't know it was a bait and switch. If the barrel shoots as well as you expect it should then the big hooplah is that it has the word "Freedom" on it? Seriously? How do you even know that the very same barrels put on their other products aren't the same except for some rollmark or stamping?

Had you shot the barrel first and it printed 1/4 MOA would you have still started out with Buyer Beware? I think we both know the answer to that question.







.
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  #17  
Old 05-14-2022, 7:29 AM
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PTac was a separate company before PSA bought it and absorbed into its own.

Before dropping the line, interestingly every PTac offering got sold out.


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Old 05-14-2022, 8:53 AM
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Omg you need to pull your head out , you literally quoted me admitting my mistake and wine I’m not being clear . Shut up and go away fan boy
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Anyone else find it sad that those who preach tolerance CAN'T allow the existence, occurrence, or practice of (something that they do not necessarily like or agree with) without interference.

I write almost everything in a jovial manner regardless of content . If that's not how you took it please try again

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Old 05-14-2022, 9:29 AM
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There is a vendor section and the last time I had an issue with a PSA order like a missing part I would post it there and got it handled pretty easy. It's been a few years since I've ordered from them.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/f...play.php?f=252

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Old 05-14-2022, 9:51 AM
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Also PTac line uppers in 2015 costed more than the $200 PSA uppers 2018.

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Old 05-14-2022, 12:49 PM
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Clearly, I don't understand. Buy an "El Cheapo" upper and complain about the low-budget parts included in the build?
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Old 05-14-2022, 5:11 PM
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Im not complaining about the part it self . I don’t have anything actually to complain about yet until I shoot it . It’s like buying a Ford and they send you a Chevy . Both may work just fine but it wasn’t advertised as a Chevy it was advertised as a Ford
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Anyone else find it sad that those who preach tolerance CAN'T allow the existence, occurrence, or practice of (something that they do not necessarily like or agree with) without interference.

I write almost everything in a jovial manner regardless of content . If that's not how you took it please try again
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Old 05-14-2022, 7:29 PM
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There have been a lot of complaints about their products on this forum. So when people say "don't buy a rifle from brand X because PSA is so much cheaper and I've had great luck with them" I cringe. Seems like if you have had good luck with them you got lucky.
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Old 05-14-2022, 7:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeffjohns View Post
Unfortunately sir you are incorrect. Palmetto State Armorys top-of-the-line products are FN products

People will never learn. You can’t put lipstick on a pig. If you want quality, buy somewhere other than PSA.
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Old 05-14-2022, 7:56 PM
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There have been a lot of complaints about their products on this forum. So when people say "don't buy a rifle from brand X because PSA is so much cheaper and I've had great luck with them" I cringe. Seems like if you have had good luck with them you got lucky.

What kind of problems? I am one that doesn’t. I did later swap in aero parts however.
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Old 05-14-2022, 8:45 PM
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What kind of problems? I am one that doesn’t. I did later swap in aero parts however.
One example is canted barrels. It is a recurring problem. People with front sight posts find they cannot align their sights because the barrel is so canted it can't be done. If not for the fact that their barrel has a front sight post they would never have known. Who knows just how big of a problem it really is considering most ARs don't have a front sight post these days.
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Old 05-14-2022, 9:12 PM
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Buy once cry once. I don't buy cheap anymore.
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Old 05-15-2022, 12:27 AM
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After dealing with this outfit a couple times, I've determined the best course of action is to avoid them altogether. Thankfully, I never had to get burned to reach my conclusion.
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Old 05-15-2022, 6:52 AM
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Just built a pistol a couple months ago used the 10,5 psa upper and a lower parts kit.

I know it aint top of the line but mine is accurate and functions good no issues so what more could i ask for?Sure i could buy more expensive parts but if they are accurate and reliable im happy with it.

I think too many want to pay cheap know a product is middle of the road but in the end they buy them thinking they are getting top quality and expect that.That is where the problems arise!
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Old 05-15-2022, 8:03 AM
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Just have it shipped back and get the barrel you ordered. If you're gonna go and shoot it to see how it performs now after you've already complained that your order was wrong, I hope psa doesn't allow you to return it. You don't go to a restaurant and tell them this isn't what you ordered, then proceed to eat half of it and tell them to take it back. Lol this isn't a Costco sample food either. Either you want to keep it now and use it or just return it unfired. But by deciding to keep it and run it, in my opinion it's yours now and I hope it's not allowed to be returned.
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Old 05-15-2022, 8:41 AM
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What exactly is wrong with a "Freedom Barrel?" I'm in the dark here.

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Old 05-15-2022, 8:53 AM
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Originally Posted by W.R.Buchanan View Post
What exactly is wrong with a "Freedom Barrel?" I'm in the dark here.

Randy
Nothing for the most part. Its just a budget AR barrel. OP got a freedom barrel in a non-freedom kit. Then he mistook the Freedom line with older PTAC line.

I've had gas issues with PSA free floated uppers. IMHO if you buy a cheap upper, go with a non free floated upper with a carbine length gas and pinned FSB. I've never had a problem with PSA's non freefloated uppers.
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Last edited by California_Deplorable; 05-15-2022 at 9:00 AM..
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Old 05-15-2022, 10:12 AM
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They probably figured that anyone who buys red parts is a moron who will never actually shot their gun, so why not give them a trash tier barrel?
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Old 05-15-2022, 3:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by W.R.Buchanan View Post
What exactly is wrong with a "Freedom Barrel?" I'm in the dark here.

Randy
I had a Freedom upper. Worked fine for me.
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Last edited by golfish; 05-15-2022 at 5:10 PM..
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Old 05-15-2022, 4:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Metal God View Post
It’s like buying a Ford and they send you a Chevy . Both may work just fine but it wasn’t advertised as a Chevy it was advertised as a Ford
Ummmm, no. It was advertised as an "upper". No brand names mentioned for barrel, bcg, parts, etc. You got what you ordered.
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Old 05-15-2022, 4:40 PM
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Ordered budget AR and got a budget AR.
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Old 05-15-2022, 5:09 PM
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Originally Posted by major burnout View Post
Ordered budget AR and got a budget AR.
Yeah, not sure why it's an issue. I clicked the link and looked at the barrel description.

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Barrel: 16" 4150V Chrome Moly Vanadium steel barrel, chambered in 5.56 NATO, with a 1:7 twist, M4 barrel extension, and a Mid-length gas system.
So if the barrel received meets those specifications, I don't see what the issue is. I'm not sure what you'd expect. Unless it was made from 4140, had a 1:9 twist or was carbine gas, the OP got the barrel he ordered. I'd very much doubt that whether it's marked "freedom" matters or that it's even a different barrel.

Can you even quantify what would make a barrel marked "freedom" worse than a barrel that says nothing?
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Old 05-15-2022, 5:37 PM
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Quote:
Lol this isn't a Costco sample food either.
Haha that cracked me up . I only posted a couple tid-bits from when I spoke with the PSA rep . I was clear that I was unhappy with them sending that barrel . She said no problem I could send it back and get the one I wanted . I promptly replied I did buy the one I want and that you sent me the wrong one . I went on to ask " ok lets say I send this back and order a different kit , how do I know the next one wont come with a Freedom barrel "? This kit did not say Freedom anywhere , do I order a kit and Know it won't have any Freedom parts if it's not in the description . That was one of a couple she would not answer . She put me on hold for 10min after that question but came back with something like I understand your frustration bla bla bla but never actually answered the question . Regardless I was clear with here I was going to go test it and asked If I could return it after and she replied I had 30 days to return it .

Sending it back and thinking I'll get something different If I order a different kit is really guess work at this point .

Quote:
So if the barrel received meets those specifications, I don't see what the issue is. I'm not sure what you'd expect.
90% of there barrels meet that spec , even there off brand barrels do . There Freedom line on the whole cost less then there standard line . If you look at the specs as you suggest between there Freedom line and standard line there is no difference other then the word Freedom and yet the Freedom line almost always cost less even though the descriptions are the same . Sure the specs on the can of peas are the same but those ones in the silver can are way better then Kroger brand and cost more too.

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Ordered budget AR and got a budget AR.
correct

Quote:
They probably figured that anyone who buys red parts is a moron
That was almost as funny as the Costco burn lol . You can only have so many black rifles with green , tan or black furniture . Sometimes you just want to go for the bling factor haha FWIW I think it looks kinda cool

I went and shot it today see next post for results
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Old 05-15-2022, 5:52 PM
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Went and tested using a 14x scope , front rest and rear bag with a lower that a fixed stock and Larue trigger . Shot several different ammo's from 55gr FMJ through 77gr smk . Best I could do was 2moa with Hornady 55gr V-max Superformance ammo



Center Fed AE
Top right 69gr smk
Bottom left 55gr NATO
Bottom right Hornady Superformance
Top left was off paper 77gr GMM - tad worse then the Hornady
I shot some other stuff after the photo was taken , nothing better then 2.5moa

For a comparison This was shot with a PSA build I did with there standard barrel using iron sights and that 69gr smk load



That might have been my best group of the day and that was using iron sights and a mil-spec trigger . Barrel made by the same company with the same exact specs minus the Freedom lettering on the barrel lol
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allow the existence, occurrence, or practice of (something that one does not necessarily like or agree with) without interference.

Anyone else find it sad that those who preach tolerance CAN'T allow the existence, occurrence, or practice of (something that they do not necessarily like or agree with) without interference.

I write almost everything in a jovial manner regardless of content . If that's not how you took it please try again

Last edited by Metal God; 05-15-2022 at 5:54 PM..
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Old 05-15-2022, 8:52 PM
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They don't hide that the Freedom line is their budget line. 2 moa is about the best anyone can expect with a non-free floated barrel.
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