LPVO purchase options

[TheVazha]

Hi!

It’s my birthday. I get to buy an LPVO. I’ve researched quite a bit and the Vortex Razor Gen 2 was on my list. Then last night I go to check out and I see they have a 1x10!

I’m sure it’s been discussed to oblivion here, but is there anything else I should strongly look at before I buy the 1x10?




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[HKAllTheThings]

Personally, I like the 1-6 more since it's clearer at 1X.

But the 1-10 has been a very good optic on the SCAR 17, if you're planning to run it on something like that.

[Sutcliffe]

For AR platforms 6x is good, 8x better, but 10x seems a little much.

YMMV

[verdigris]

Take a look at Tract Optics. Not too many people know of them but make excellent scopes. They sell direct and more value for the money. They have a great 1x8 LVPO for about 1200.00

[ir0nclash86]

https://www.primaryarms.com/primary-...56-308-reticle

[Dr. Peter Venkman]

1-10x will have a tighter eyebox. Check out the other razor HD models if you can.

[TheVazha]

I agree woth you guys, the 1-10 I think is overkill for a 223. I’ll keep looking. I wish Trijicon had a proper 1-8.


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[fmxmyway]

1-6 FTW. Ive owned both and I sold my 1-10. The 1-6 is more like a magnified red dot so it does both roles well as the eye relief is flexible. The 1-10 is more like a traditional scope as the eye relief is much more restrictive.

[TheVazha]

Originally Posted by fmxmyway

1-6 FTW. Ive owned both and I sold my 1-10. The 1-6 is more like a magnified red dot so it does both roles well as the eye relief is flexible. The 1-10 is more like a traditional scope as the eye relief is much more restrictive.

Amazing that’s what I’ve read in the past 48. I can get the 1-10 but for $2700 otd it’s just crazy imho. I’d do it if there was a compelling reason but for a 223 I think 1-6 is sweet spot no?

Also, maybe a noob question, do they only make a 1-6 in sfp because the lower magnification, in other words, there’s no benefit of ffp at that range compared to 1-10?


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[Munny$hot]

IMHO the 1-10 FFP trumps the 1-6 SFP due to the ranging reticle being correct regardless of power setting. Yes you'll more then likely be on max or 1X but if foe some reason it's will affect your desired results. The eye box is tighter on the 10X, but IMHO is a good thing due most LPVOs do not have a parallax adjustment. You can use the edges of the scope's shadow to give you a good indication if you are properly lined up with your target at distance. The EBR9 MOA is a great Christmas tree style reticle, with wind, and is extremely fast at making hits out to distance. IMHO I'd rather have a tighter eye box with the extra 4X over the 1-6 especially for stretching out to the maximum range of the 5.56 on smaller targets then being limited to 6X. If you want a more forgiving eyebox simply dial down the magnification to 6-8X. The other LPVO I'd consider would be the Kahles 1-8. All the others don't have the glass quality, forgiving eyebox at lower magnification, and an Aimpoint bright dot like the Razor or Kahles which IMHO is needed for quick shots at close distances.

[TheVazha]

Originally Posted by Munny$hot

IMHO the 1-10 FFP trumps the 1-6 SFP due to the ranging reticle being correct regardless of power setting. Yes you'll more then likely be on max or 1X but if foe some reason it's will affect your desired results. The eye box is tighter on the 10X, but IMHO is a good thing due most LPVOs do not have a parallax adjustment. You can use the edges of the scope's shadow to give you a good indication if you are properly lined up with your target at distance. The EBR9 MOA is a great Christmas tree style reticle, with wind, and is extremely fast at making hits out to distance. IMHO I'd rather have a tighter eye box with the extra 4X over the 1-6 especially for stretching out to the maximum range of the 5.56 on smaller targets then being limited to 6X. If you want a more forgiving eyebox simply dial down the magnification to 6-8X. The other LPVO I'd consider would be the Kahles 1-8. All the others don't have the glass quality, forgiving eyebox at lower magnification, and an Aimpoint bright dot like the Razor or Kahles which IMHO is needed for quick shots at close distances.

Great point. It’s funny, I currently have an Accupoint 1-4 on the 223 and the shadows do absolutely help me dial in the positioning. Of course it’s not preferred, but it’s funny how when you get used to something it really doesn’t bother you.

They do make a Trijicon Credo 1-6 with ffp. That’s about the same price as a Gen 2 E. Have you had any experience woth that?

I love my 1-4 Accupoint but also I’ve never looked through anything else. I think the 1-4 is rad, I can’t wait to upgrade to something really special. Just having such a tough time deciding.


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[Gryff]

I just put a Vortex Strike Eagle 1-8x on my son's AR for him to use in next month's BARC match. He likes it, but it is the horseshoe reticle instead of the crosshairs.

BTW, ActiveJunky.com has 10% back right now if you buy from Cabelas/Bass Pro. That will save me $50 on the Strike Eagle.

[Full Clip]

You might want to check out some of SupersetCA's videos on the subject.

[tradecraft]

I have some Vudu 1-10s listed if you want to save some coin.

[Munny$hot]

Originally Posted by TheVazha

Great point. It’s funny, I currently have an Accupoint 1-4 on the 223 and the shadows do absolutely help me dial in the positioning. Of course it’s not preferred, but it’s funny how when you get used to something it really doesn’t bother you.

They do make a Trijicon Credo 1-6 with ffp. That’s about the same price as a Gen 2 E. Have you had any experience woth that?

I love my 1-4 Accupoint but also I’ve never looked through anything else. I think the 1-4 is rad, I can’t wait to upgrade to something really special. Just having such a tough time deciding.


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I did look through a Credo and the glass is nice and the illumination definitely better then their previous models. The biggest downside to the Credo 1-8 is the tunneling affect around the image, something that is not present on the Razors LPVOs. If you're considering the Credo 1-8 make sure to also look at the Razor Gen 2 1-6 before making a decision. Either of them would be a great option for a very durable 24/7 rig.

[Munny$hot]

Originally Posted by Gryff

I just put a Vortex Strike Eagle 1-8x on my son's AR for him to use in next month's BARC match. He likes it, but it is the horseshoe reticle instead of the crosshairs.

BTW, ActiveJunky.com has 10% back right now if you buy from Cabelas/Bass Pro. That will save me $50 on the Strike Eagle.

I definitely like the reticle of the SE 1-8 and the price is starting to come down on them to 300.00 with a Vortex mount. I'm hoping to see an updated reticle in their PST Gen2 LPVO line of scopes.

Originally Posted by Full Clip

You might want to check out some of SupersetCA's videos on the subject.

Definitely a great vid to checkout before making a decision on a high dollar investment.

[D.A.V.I.D.]

I’ve had the 1-6 and 1-10. Sold the 1-10, I don’t think ffp is necessary on a 5.56 rifle. I’m using 1 or 6 mostly and if I’m using in between it’s shots that the center reticle is still good to use. I also find the glass better on the 1-6.

[theLBC]

for that kind of money, i would consider the march shorty dual plane scopes.

[Subotai]

I have the primary arms 1-6 with acss reticle. Bery nice!

[crufflers]

Originally Posted by TheVazha

I’ll keep looking. I wish Trijicon had a proper 1-8.

What's wrong with the CREDO?

Credo CR828 1-8x28mm

[sigstroker]

Originally Posted by Dr. Peter Venkman

1-10x will have a tighter eyebox. Check out the other razor HD models if you can.

I saw a guntube review that compared 1-6x to 1-8x Primary Arms scope and the 1-8 had worse glass. You can't assume anything by the brand name.

OP, go on youtube, or just this forum, and search for supersetCA. He does reviews that are among the best. I remember he did a comparison video of high end lpvo's and the Razor was in it but I can't remember if it was the 1-10x.

Counter-intuitively, the most important aspect is how good they are at 1x.

[sigstroker]

Originally Posted by Munny$hot

I did look through a Credo and the glass is nice and the illumination definitely better then their previous models. The biggest downside to the Credo 1-8 is the tunneling affect around the image, something that is not present on the Razors LPVOs. If you're considering the Credo 1-8 make sure to also look at the Razor Gen 2 1-6 before making a decision. Either of them would be a great option for a very durable 24/7 rig.

If you want durable, look at the SIG Tango6T. It was adopted by the military. They seem to have discontinued it for retail sale, but there might be on in stock somewhere.

[TheVazha]

Thanks gents, fantastic advice and discussion.

Will make a decision and report back!


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[crufflers]

I have a few LPVO and the clearest are the Razor 1-6, PST II 1-6, RT-6... the Vortex scopes are built better IMHO... but also cost more than the Burris.

[Munny$hot]

Originally Posted by sigstroker

If you want durable, look at the SIG Tango6T. It was adopted by the military. They seem to have discontinued it for retail sale, but there might be on in stock somewhere.

I considered it when they first came out, but the illumination was disappointing.

[Ki6vsm]

Delta Stryker 1-6x anyone? I ended up with two of them: one in each reticle type. I like them a lot. Simple center dot, VERY bright if you want it that way.

[Dennis]

Originally Posted by Ki6vsm

Delta Stryker 1-6x anyone? I ended up with two of them: one in each reticle type. I like them a lot. Simple center dot, VERY bright if you want it that way.

I was set to buy a Vortex PST2 1-6. I found a used Delta Stryker 1-6 here for less and decided to give it a try. Very impressed with it. Super bright daylight dot. Nice clear Japanese glass. I would highly recommend one to anyone looking.

[Ki6vsm]

Originally Posted by Dennis

I was set to buy a Vortex PST2 1-6.

It's funny you say that. I'd purchased one of those first. My impression was, it's very nice to look through but boy, it's kind of a tank. Then read about the Stryker. Bought one. Then returned the Vortex.

[crufflers]

Originally Posted by Ki6vsm

It's funny you say that. I'd purchased one of those first. My impression was, it's very nice to look through but boy, it's kind of a tank. Then read about the Stryker. Bought one. Then returned the Vortex.

For that price I would expect Razor levels of clarity and brightness. Am I being unreasonable? Anyone compare these to the PA Platinum?

[Ki6vsm]

Originally Posted by crufflers

For that price I would expect Razor levels of clarity and brightness. Am I being unreasonable? Anyone compare these to the PA Platinum?

I've never looked through a Razor, but I don't know that I'd necessarily expect an $800 scope to have glass on par with a $1200-1400 scope. What I like about the Striker is the great glass plus the light weight. 6 oz lighter than either of the Vortex scopes. That counts for something. If it makes the Stryker less "combat worthy" than the heavier scopes, well, that's something I hope I never need to learn about.

[crufflers]

Originally Posted by Ki6vsm

I've never looked through a Razor, but I don't know that I'd necessarily expect an $800 scope to have glass on par with a $1200-1400 scope. What I like about the Striker is the great glass plus the light weight. 6 oz lighter than either of the Vortex scopes. That counts for something. If it makes the Stryker less "combat worthy" than the heavier scopes, well, that's something I hope I never need to learn about.

I dunno that it is Razor clear or not, but EUROPTIC blew out Razor GenII's for $900 not too long ago. Yeah they are not feather light, but good glass does have weight.

I'm just curious where they fall on the glass quality line up... internals too. If they shaved weight, where?

[Munny$hot]

Originally Posted by crufflers

I dunno that it is Razor clear or not, but EUROPTIC blew out Razor GenII's for $900 not too long ago. Yeah they are not feather light, but good glass does have weight.

I'm just curious where they fall on the glass quality line up... internals too. If they shaved weight, where?

The one Euro Optics blew out for 900 where not the Gen II "E" models but the heavier 24ozs. According to Vortex they saved the weight by using lighter weight material, but did not sacrifice the glass, durability/ruggedness of the scope.

[HKAllTheThings]

Originally Posted by Munny$hot

The one Euro Optics blew out for 900 where not the Gen II "E" models but the heavier 24ozs. According to Vortex they saved the weight by using lighter weight material, but did not sacrifice the glass, durability/ruggedness of the scope.

Yes, Vortex switched out their brass internals for lighter alloys so they could try to win that USSOCOM S-VPS contract.

[crufflers]

Originally Posted by Munny$hot

The one Euro Optics blew out for 900 where not the Gen II "E" models but the heavier 24ozs. According to Vortex they saved the weight by using lighter weight material, but did not sacrifice the glass, durability/ruggedness of the scope.

I am aware. I was ok with the 2.5 ounces more or whatever for a 1-6 with great glass @ $900. Just another trade-off. Now if it was 8 ounces I'd probably notice... and maybe the Stryker is awesome glass and half a pound lighter than the the Razor, that's why I ask.

I also know there are people telling us Monstrum and O-light are tight tight tight!

[Munny$hot]

Originally Posted by crufflers

I am aware. I was ok with the 2.5 ounces more or whatever for a 1-6 with great glass @ $900. Just another trade-off. Now if it was 8 ounces I'd probably notice... and maybe the Stryker is awesome glass and half a pound lighter than the the Razor, that's why I ask.

I also know there are people telling us Monstrum and O-light are tight tight tight!

Monstrom FTE LOL. I considered the Leupold MK6 1-6 and the NF 1-8 but the eye box on both of those are extremely tight. IMHO for the glass, reticle, durability, daylight bright dot it's hard to beat the Razor 1-10 MOA.

[crufflers]

Originally Posted by Munny$hot

Monstrom FTE LOL. I considered the Leupold MK6 1-6 and the NF 1-8 but the eye box on both of those are extremely tight. IMHO for the glass, reticle, durability, daylight bright dot it's hard to beat the Razor 1-10 MOA.

AFAIK, my price on the Viper PST II and the Razor Gen2 (heavy ) were well worth it.

I see all kinds of positive Monstrum reviews on the fixed power prisms… the reviewers got free tish from them of course similar to the Olight reviewers.

[Ki6vsm]

Originally Posted by Munny$hot

The one Euro Optics blew out for 900 where not the Gen II "E" models but the heavier 24ozs. According to Vortex they saved the weight by using lighter weight material, but did not sacrifice the glass, durability/ruggedness of the scope.

Yeah. Exactly. I think it also went to a higher retail/street price too. I'm seeing them everywhere for $1400 now.

As far as if the Stryker is near as good, I can't say. I might not be the best judge, don't have perfect vision anyway. But I like what I see when I look through it. It's made in Japan. By LOW, supposedly. HD glass. I like DGMR reticle best. Simpler, finer lines than the more popular DSMR reticle. Less busy reticle. Only has a few mil hash marks on the vertical for hold-overs. Center dot gets daylight bright. Yet, because it's a smaller dot than the DSMR's reticle, the dot can be set dim enough not to dazzle your eye when used in dark places.

It might be made of thinner walled tubing than the two Vortex 1-6x scopes. Can't say for sure. That'd make the Vtx scopes tougher overall I'm sure, if you were to put them through abuse.

[ArmyMedicMoose]

I've been running the Razor Gen III 1-10 hard for the last few months, and it is a beast of an optic! Clear glass, and you can easily run the optic with both eyes open at all powers.
razor.jpg

[Ki6vsm]

^^^ Nice setup.

FWIW, here is the Delta Stryker's DGMR reticle, the simpler one with the finer lines. I'm borrowing this image from someone's post on SnipersHide.

I think the width of the lines here is 0.11 Mrad. (The DSMR reticle has 0.18 Mrad lines.) So these are about 1/3 skinnier than the DSMR's.

For comparison, the Razor Gen II-E 1-6x has 0.15 Mrad wide lines at the 3, 6, and 9 o'clock lines (near center) and a 0.18 Mrad line at 12 o'clock. In case anyone cares.

[Sniper3142]

Originally Posted by ArmyMedicMoose

I've been running the Razor Gen III 1-10 hard for the last few months, and it is a beast of an optic! Clear glass, and you can easily run the optic with both eyes open at all powers.
Attachment 1107334

This or similar is also my choice.

The reticle allows for elevation and windage holds.