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National 2nd Amend. Political & Legal Discussion Discuss national gun rights and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #1361  
Old 10-10-2019, 7:32 PM
mrrabbit mrrabbit is offline
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Originally Posted by lowimpactuser View Post
Because NYSRPA is about guns, not about ineffective little zap toys.

Filling in for KCbrown.
Caetano v. Massachusetts wasn't about stun guns...

...it was about Heller v. DC, and those particulars such as future arms, suitable arms for self defense and in this case the self defense right as exercised by a homeless person - concealed without a permit I might add.

A reminder that not all cases of CCW without a permit end up in a criminal conviction.

Try not to get hung up on the trivial dude...

=8-|
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  #1362  
Old 10-10-2019, 8:24 PM
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Normally SCOTUS holds off on releasing decisions on controversial topics until June. But that will be in the thick of the campaign and conventions next year. Plus, SCOTUS is already dealing with what this term: LGBetc “rights”, abortion “rights”, and 2nd A rights and maybe even impeachment? Will they really hold those first three to deliver them in June and think that won’t turn a spotlight (and political heat) on the Court?

While I don’t see them delivering an opinion in NYSRPA before the holidays, I could see it after February.

But who knows? I won’t put money on anything in 2020....
I should add: If NYSRPA is held until June, why are they not acting upon Pena, Rogers, Gould and, IIRC, a few more 2nd A cases that have already been to 1 conference and are being held in limbo (not granted, not denied, and not re-distributed for new conferences)?

Will they release NYSRPA late in the term and GVR the others at the same time? Or will they pull a Caetano with NYSRPA early and then, maybe, take one or more of the others to orals in winter or spring 2020? (That first part is unlikely, IMO, since NYSRPA is set for orals and Caetano was never scheduled for orals.)

The fog is thick and I can't see through it....

2020 is going to be an interesting year judicially, not to mention politically.

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Last edited by Paladin; 10-10-2019 at 8:27 PM..
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  #1363  
Old 10-10-2019, 8:34 PM
lowimpactuser lowimpactuser is offline
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Originally Posted by mrrabbit View Post
Caetano v. Massachusetts wasn't about stun guns...

...it was about Heller v. DC, and those particulars such as future arms, suitable arms for self defense and in this case the self defense right as exercised by a homeless person - concealed without a permit I might add.

A reminder that not all cases of CCW without a permit end up in a criminal conviction.

Try not to get hung up on the trivial dude...

=8-|
Oh. So the future arm was about a phased plasma rifle in the 40 watt range?

No? It was about a less lethal arm that has to be used at contact distance?

Are you telling me that the “public safety” crowd feels significantly less threatened by stun guns than they do actual guns, and so might actually rule in such a case because it doesn’t make them fearful of proles being able to shoot them or defend against their ever advancing tyranny?

Wait, no, you’re right, it’s about principles of the second amendment.

O’rourke said “consistent with the second amendment, Hell yes we’re taking your At-15s and AK-47s, and all other weapons including stun guns because the left is a principled party, not an outcome oriented one, and we will treat both weapons that can actually overthrow tyranny and ones only dumb drug addicts are afraid of the same way.”

How did I miss that rally?

Of course, that’s the position the right has taken for decades and failed terribly. You might almost accuse me, if you’re a paranoid conspiracy theorist, of accusing the right of not knowing themselves and their own intentions fully; and not really knowing the left either, and as Sun Tzu said, you will lose every time, and that predictive advice has made me question and try to force others to check if we have lost due to false understandings.

But never mind, clearly Ruth Bader Ginsburg cares more about law than her side winning, and Stevens didn’t publish a memoir openly stating that the outcome mattered to him and their side and the law was just justification to reach their preconceived notions.

I’m sure the right case and a 5 minute presentation would leave RBG ready to vote for letters of marque and unregistered custom pathogens because she just didn’t understand “shall not be infringed”.”
/sarc
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Last edited by lowimpactuser; 10-10-2019 at 8:54 PM..
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  #1364  
Old 10-11-2019, 5:03 PM
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Just a reminder: Months ago, Roberts came out and pushed that the Court isn't political. Trump pushed back. In return, Roberts voted AGAINST Trump in seeking a citizenship question on the decennial census.

Roberts swung left to show the Court isn't political, that justices can't be counted on according to the party of the pres. who nominated them. He'll do it again. (Of course, Dems NEVER swing "right" to show this....)

A month or two ago Gorsuch also claimed the justices aren't political. Have any of the 4 Dems come out with statements like this? IIRC, only RBG gave some weak suggestions along those lines. Again, will any of them swing right during an actual vote/opinion?

The question is on which controversial case/s will Roberts swing left again: abortion? homo rights? 2nd A? Impeachment??? (whatever role he/the Court plays)

https://theweek.com/articles/870886/...berts-sweating

ETA: Even if Roberts votes with the other GOPers he could do what Kennedy did (because of J. Stevens' pressure) in Heller: get the majority opinion watered down.
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Last edited by Paladin; 10-11-2019 at 6:05 PM..
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  #1365  
Old 10-11-2019, 6:55 PM
lowimpactuser lowimpactuser is offline
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Originally Posted by Paladin View Post
Just a reminder: Months ago, Roberts came out and pushed that the Court isn't political. Trump pushed back. In return, Roberts voted AGAINST Trump in seeking a citizenship question on the decennial census.

Roberts swung left to show the Court isn't political, that justices can't be counted on according to the party of the pres. who nominated them. He'll do it again. (Of course, Dems NEVER swing "right" to show this....)

A month or two ago Gorsuch also claimed the justices aren't political. Have any of the 4 Dems come out with statements like this? IIRC, only RBG gave some weak suggestions along those lines. Again, will any of them swing right during an actual vote/opinion?

The question is on which controversial case/s will Roberts swing left again: abortion? homo rights? 2nd A? Impeachment??? (whatever role he/the Court plays)

https://theweek.com/articles/870886/...berts-sweating

ETA: Even if Roberts votes with the other GOPers he could do what Kennedy did (because of J. Stevens' pressure) in Heller: get the majority opinion watered down.
Wait, you mean when Obama criticized the court for Citizen’s United and the right tilt of the court left-wing judges didn’t vote right wing to demonstrate there isn’t political party on the court?

That would almost mean that democrats have always played hardball with the court, like Borking or Thomas-ing or Kavanaughing nominees whereas the right never has done the same.

That would almost mean the right has always given up and expected good faith from the left which is never returned.

Maybe Orwell was wrong.

Tyranny isn’t a boot stamping on a face for all eternity.

It’s Charlie Brown believing Lucy will hold the ball this time and tripping and falling for eternity.
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  #1366  
Old 10-15-2019, 10:04 AM
ddestruel ddestruel is offline
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US solicitor general

https://www.supremecourt.gov/DocketP...itedStates.pdf

A.This Court has interpreted the Commerce Clause to forbid States and municipalities from discriminating against interstate commerce. Under this Court’s prec-edents, “[d]iscrimination against interstate commerce in favor of local business or investment is per se invalid, save in a narrow class of cases in which the municipality can demonstrate, under rigorous scrutiny, that it has no other means to advance a legitimate local interest.” C&A Carbone, Inc. v. Town of Clarkstown, 511 U.S. 383, 392 (1994). And “local governments may not use their regulatory power to favor local enterprise by prohib-iting patronage of out-of-state competitors.” Id.at 394


boy that amicus from the us solicitor general, who was granted 10 minutes in the arguements sure sounds like a whole lot of nails in a bunch of state regulations that CA has imposed. if the court follows that direction out of state ammo purchases and importation of privately owned ammunition isnt going to stand much of a chance.
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  #1367  
Old 10-15-2019, 10:45 AM
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Originally Posted by ddestruel View Post
US solicitor general

https://www.supremecourt.gov/DocketP...itedStates.pdf

A.This Court has interpreted the Commerce Clause to forbid States and municipalities from discriminating against interstate commerce. Under this Court’s prec-edents, “[d]iscrimination against interstate commerce in favor of local business or investment is per se invalid, save in a narrow class of cases in which the municipality can demonstrate, under rigorous scrutiny, that it has no other means to advance a legitimate local interest.” C&A Carbone, Inc. v. Town of Clarkstown, 511 U.S. 383, 392 (1994). And “local governments may not use their regulatory power to favor local enterprise by prohib-iting patronage of out-of-state competitors.” Id.at 394


boy that amicus from the us solicitor general, who was granted 10 minutes in the arguements sure sounds like a whole lot of nails in a bunch of state regulations that CA has imposed. if the court follows that direction out of state ammo purchases and importation of privately owned ammunition isnt going to stand much of a chance.
I am glad to see this was granted. Also note that they don’t care to hear anymore from Neal Goldfarb as his request to speak was denied
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  #1368  
Old 10-15-2019, 2:25 PM
homelessdude homelessdude is offline
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Please refresh my memory. Who is Neal Goldfarb?
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  #1369  
Old 10-15-2019, 4:13 PM
NorCalRT NorCalRT is offline
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Please refresh my memory. Who is Neal Goldfarb?
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That evidence provides compelling reason to believe that that when the Second Amendment was framed and ratified, the right to bear arms it was understood as the right to serve in the militia, not a right of individual self-defense.
That answer your question?
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  #1370  
Old 10-15-2019, 8:24 PM
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Please refresh my memory. Who is Neal Goldfarb?
He is a lawyer mostly concerned with linguistics. See his post here about his opinion that Heller was wrong based on the definition of “bear arms”.

https://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=38422

Given his amicus brief and what other materials I have read online, it makes me think the court doesn’t intend to rehash anything from Heller, but build upon it.
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  #1371  
Old 10-16-2019, 7:10 AM
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Epaphroditus Epaphroditus is offline
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What's 'rigorous scrutiny'?
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  #1372  
Old 10-16-2019, 7:16 AM
homelessdude homelessdude is offline
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He sounds like a lawyer . If you have enough data you can manipulate it to say whatever you want it to say. Thanks for posting that. Thank our lucky stars the court doesn't want to here from him.
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  #1373  
Old 10-16-2019, 3:21 PM
BryMan92 BryMan92 is offline
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What's 'rigorous scrutiny'?
It's what your in-laws apply when you visit for holidays.

For those interested, in the amici from the Solicitor General, it is important to note that *NO* FOPA claims have been raised and they were dismissed in the District Court!
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  #1374  
Old 10-16-2019, 8:45 PM
Robotron2k84 Robotron2k84 is offline
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The Police Commissioner has not established comparable exceptions for the transportation of handguns to and from the license-holder’s other residences, or to and from firing ranges outside the City. The transportation of handguns to and from these locations thus remains forbidden to premises license-holders, even if the owner carries the gun unloaded, locked, and separate from the ammunition. Pet. App. 94-96.
Pretty sure the SG made reference to FOPA, pp.10, statement section 1, paragraph 4. The meat of the amici is what can be carried without FOPA’s purview. NYC bans both, so I expect SCOTUS to recognize that NYC can not override the existing federal code protecting unloaded, cased and locked transport.
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  #1375  
Old 10-16-2019, 10:48 PM
BryMan92 BryMan92 is offline
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Splitting hairs a bit, but the issue the DC addressed is summarized here from a footnote:

“Petitioners raised an alternative claim under this provision in the district court. The court rejected the claim on the ground that the statute applies where a person may “ ‘lawfully possess and carry’ ” the firearm at both the origin and destination of the trip, but petitioners lacked the right to “carry” firearms in New York City because they lacked a carry license. Pet. App. 67-68 (quoting 18 U.S.C. 926A). Petitioners did not appeal that decision, which is not at issue here.”

Would it be likely SCOTUS would argue that FOPA is relevant since case law says “well, duh?”
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