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  #1  
Old 09-17-2021, 9:30 PM
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Default "Advice for a friend" on reloader

Honest, it's really for a friend. Some of the guys in my company are working on a project where they will need to reload 308 Win. They are wondering what press to buy and if they should buy a progressive.

I don't know much about the project except for the caliber, and that they will need to load a few hundred rounds every few weeks. They are looking at a progressive loader to save time since this is a paid project and time really does equal money. It looks like parts, components, supplies are all at a premium right now so maybe that plays into what they should be looking at?

They were looking at Dillon and Hornady. They asked me because I used to shoot quite a bit but I don't have any reloading experience - that's why I came to you all...

Any models to investigate or advice (progressive vs. single-stage) appreciated.
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Old 09-17-2021, 9:35 PM
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For .308 Win or similar rifle cartridges, I'd really recommend a Lee Classic Turret Press setup. It does these rounds with aplomb, without fuss. It's also very user-friendly, simple to maintain, and will reload at a good pace since time is money in this situation.
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Old 09-17-2021, 9:39 PM
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I’d source components first then buy a press. With that said how much money are they willing to spend? I’m loading my match ammo on a Dillon 550 and charging using an auto trickler v3.
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Old 09-17-2021, 9:41 PM
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Have them take a look at the Redding T-7 Turret Press. Great option for production over a single press but less set up problem to a full on progressive. Worth time time to research before they spend the money.
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Old 09-17-2021, 9:42 PM
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Quote:
They are looking at a progressive loader to save time since this is a paid project


But if I must coment - I will assume they are being paid for research in which they will be shooting their own reloads. Will need more details on what their objective is. I've always loaded .308 for accuracy/precision and have gone single stage.
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Old 09-17-2021, 10:26 PM
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I go along with Cowboy T on this one. When the question about presses comes up I always recommend the Lee Classic Turret Press. It is simple to use and easy to learn and I'm assuming you friends are new to reloading.

They can save a few bucks by getting a starter kit. I would suggest a base for the powder measure and an RCBS Hand Priming Tool.
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Old 09-17-2021, 10:31 PM
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If "they" are serious about doing it on the cheap.....

Get a Curio and Relics FFL to take advantage of dealer pricing programs on the presses as well as the components. $30 for three years. Find me a better deal, you can't.

Buy surplus components, tear down ammo and such. Buy it cheap and stack it deep.

Somebody is going to have to deal with all of the crap involved. Free/cheap ammo or charge your friends for the hassle. Nobody rides for free.
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Old 09-18-2021, 4:26 AM
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Turret presses are not progressive. I have the Lee classic and have done 308 on it, it takes 4 times as long. Why? Cause it completes only 1 round after 4 pulls. So time (labor) is part of the project cost. On my Lee it takes me (experienced) about an hour to make 100rds. On my progressive it would be about 15 minutes if everything goes right. No primer or projectile jams and the powder reservoir doesn't go empty. For 308s the powder goes away fast.

A true progressive may be more money than it's worth for what the project needs. If they need a couple of hundred every few weeks and it runs for a year, then buying 2k in bulk might save labor and equipment cost. If this project goes on for much longer they will need to do the cost benefit analysis. The equipment, once used, can still be sold off with minimal depreciation at least but all the time getting it right and to function correctly is significant.

Time spent on getting components need to be added to operating the press, once it's even set up correctly. It used to be you can just walk into a Sportsmans and get everything (primer, powder, brass, projectiles) but now each have to be sourced from different places for the best price, then add shipping and wait time and that's IF they even have it.

Brass is to be re-used I'm assuming so is it going to be shot out of a semi-auto or bolt, because the semi is going to beat up the brass which will have to be replaced quicker or annealed. Sometimes as much as 2 or 3 firings.

I was at the range once and a Tesla and a Lexus pulled up. They set up an automated balanced turret meant to be mounted on military vehicles and used an HK417 to do the testing. Think The Jackal.

Last edited by tabascoz28; 09-18-2021 at 5:03 AM..
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  #9  
Old 09-18-2021, 6:31 AM
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They were using some expensive Hornadys at the time.


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Old 09-18-2021, 9:30 AM
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IMHO, if they are experienced reloaders they would not be asking these questions. That said, not having experience loading 308 I would not recommend they jump in to a progressive press, too much going on all at once.

When I reload rifle brass there are several steps to the process for me. First I rinse with water, vinegar, etc, then de-prime, size (factoring shoulder bump), trim and then tumble to remove any debris.. By the time I get to the loading it's just powder and seating. But if you are just full sizing and loading I don't see much precision or consistency in that.

If they will be loaded for a bolt vs semi auto(s), Multiple guns? would also make a difference. Not knowing the "project".

Just my opinion and I have not loaded many, just started 308 but I have done thousands of .223.
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Old 09-18-2021, 12:00 PM
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Thanks all for the input and sorry I don't have more details. But this will give them some things to ponder. I wish I knew a little more about the tradeoffs they are willing to make, priorities, budget, etc. I work in San Diego and the office is in Maryland; I know one of them strictly through email but don't have much contact.

I had to take a pause from my shooting and haven't been to the range since early 2018; it's been nice to hang around the forum again!
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Old 09-18-2021, 3:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vospertw View Post
I know one of them strictly through email but don't have much contact.
Save yourself time and explanation and send them a link to the thread.
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Old 09-18-2021, 4:13 PM
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I have a LCT press, and it is great for .45ACP, 9MM and ... .223. But I was never able to achieve the precision I wanted from the LCT for .223 much less .308. My neighbor gave me a used Rock Chucker single state and I was able to get the precision and accuracy I was looking for.

I'm not knocking the LCT, it's a great press, I have one, but I don't use it for reloading any rifle cartridge.
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Old 09-18-2021, 4:57 PM
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I guess it's a matter of mass production vs (high)quality ammo. From what I've read on this site, progressives are great for plinking ammo up to 556/.223 but as you go to the larger calibers, it sounds as though you loose a degree of quality. To be honest, I've never reloaded using a progressive but hope to some day. I'll continue to watch from the sideline as there are a lot of smart progressive turners on this site who have the magic in making quality ammo on progressives.
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Old 09-18-2021, 7:43 PM
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Depending on who you are, the "complexity" of progressive presses is overblown. Eg anyone with an engineering degree should be able to cope just fine.

I started with a dillon 550, and after a year or two added a 650,
nothing wrong with the 550 mind, but I would have been better off just getting the 650 to begin with. I forget how many years ago that was.
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Old 09-20-2021, 5:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Donny1 View Post
IMHO, if they are experienced reloaders they would not be asking these questions. That said, not having experience loading 308 I would not recommend they jump in to a progressive press, too much going on all at once.

When I reload rifle brass there are several steps to the process for me. First I rinse with water, vinegar, etc, then de-prime, size (factoring shoulder bump), trim and then tumble to remove any debris.. By the time I get to the loading it's just powder and seating. But if you are just full sizing and loading I don't see much precision or consistency in that.

If they will be loaded for a bolt vs semi auto(s), Multiple guns? would also make a difference. Not knowing the "project".

Just my opinion and I have not loaded many, just started 308 but I have done thousands of .223.
Isn’t this the whole point of this post? Obviously if they were experienced re-loaders they wouldn’t be asking basic questions
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Old 09-20-2021, 5:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by randomBytes View Post
Depending on who you are, the "complexity" of progressive presses is overblown. Eg anyone with an engineering degree should be able to cope just fine.

I started with a dillon 550, and after a year or two added a 650,
nothing wrong with the 550 mind, but I would have been better off just getting the 650 to begin with. I forget how many years ago that was.
THIS. A 550 can be used in single stage or progressive mode, and is a great choice IMHO as the reloaded can learn each stage slowly, then ramp up as they get more proficient.

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Old 09-20-2021, 1:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cgseanp1 View Post
Isn’t this the whole point of this post? Obviously if they were experienced re-loaders they wouldn’t be asking basic questions
So your only contribution to this thread is passive aggressive criticism?

I meant nothing in the way of a judgement, just trying to wrap my head around the OP's situation.
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Old 09-20-2021, 1:48 PM
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I wasn’t trying to be passive aggressive or rude or anything. Just thought the comment was odd.


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Old 09-20-2021, 6:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Donny1 View Post
IMHO, if they are experienced reloaders they would not be asking these questions. That said, not having experience loading 308 I would not recommend they jump in to a progressive press, too much going on all at once.

When I reload rifle brass there are several steps to the process for me. First I rinse with water, vinegar, etc, then de-prime, size (factoring shoulder bump), trim and then tumble to remove any debris.. By the time I get to the loading it's just powder and seating. But if you are just full sizing and loading I don't see much precision or consistency in that.

If they will be loaded for a bolt vs semi auto(s), Multiple guns? would also make a difference. Not knowing the "project".

Just my opinion and I have not loaded many, just started 308 but I have done thousands of .223.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Donny1 View Post
So your only contribution to this thread is passive aggressive criticism?

I meant nothing in the way of a judgement, just trying to wrap my head around the OP's situation.
Actually, he's got a point. If they don't know what they're doing, then a progressive press is probably not the best recommendation for them. They need to learn what they're doing, first and foremost. That really means a single-stage, or at best, a decent turret press (e. g. the LCTP or similar).

If, on the other hand, they do know what they're doing, then they really shouldn't have to ask if they need a progressive press. They'll already know their needs, their reloading priorities (quantity blasting ammo, or quality precision ammo, or somewhere in between).
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Old 09-20-2021, 6:39 PM
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Another +1 on the Lee Turret. It is the least expensive way to make quality rifle loads. I use my LnL AP for plinking 223 and 308 but when developing precision loads I go single stage. The LCT press gives you the accuracy of a single stage press (only one cartridge per pull) with the convenience of not having to do a batch of flare/charge/seat/crimp for lead bullets.

If they are only shooting boat tail rounds, then a single stage press is adequate. Deprime/size should be done before trim/prime, then charge/seat can be done with nothing more than a powder drop and single stage press.
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Old 09-21-2021, 11:09 AM
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Cartridge There's dozens and dozens of 30 caliber cartridges(308 Winchester is but one)

Are they near a shop that rents press time? This has been brought up by SoCal members in the past; there's some shops that rent you time on a press, you supply the components. Check for shops like that in Md?

Quote:
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I don't know much about the project except for the caliber, and that they will need to load a few hundred rounds every few weeks.
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Old 09-21-2021, 11:11 AM
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Spenceville?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tabascoz28 View Post
They were using some expensive Hornadys at the time.


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Old 09-21-2021, 1:31 PM
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Yep
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Old 09-21-2021, 5:39 PM
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Just to be clear, do your friends
1) need to obtain .308 ammo through any means, and they thought that reloading was the best option? But they could also just buy commercial ammo.
2) need to go through the process of reloading some kind of ammo, and thought that doing .308 was a good idea but reloading any other round would work also?
3) need to go through the process of specifically reloading .308 ammo?
4) do they need the ammo for any specific shooting purpose (hunting, precision target, etc), or just general purpose plinking ammo that goes boom.
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Old 09-21-2021, 7:53 PM
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a dillon is worth it if just for the priming

with rifle stuff there is more case prep size,decap,trim,debur,fix the pocket if crimped

but once you have the cases good using a dillon to prime,charge,seat every crank feels like making money
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Old 09-23-2021, 12:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kcheung2 View Post
Just to be clear, do your friends
1) need to obtain .308 ammo through any means, and they thought that reloading was the best option? But they could also just buy commercial ammo.
2) need to go through the process of reloading some kind of ammo, and thought that doing .308 was a good idea but reloading any other round would work also?
3) need to go through the process of specifically reloading .308 ammo?
4) do they need the ammo for any specific shooting purpose (hunting, precision target, etc), or just general purpose plinking ammo that goes boom.
Sorry for the late response all. kcheung, they are working on some new bullet designs so they will be testing various bullets in batches. I believe the customer is gov't/military and shooting 308.

I'll try to keep you posted from time to time as I hear any updates. I really appreciate all the input. I think they are finding, as you have pointed out, some of their choices may be bound by what they can find and purchase.
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Old 09-23-2021, 12:41 PM
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There really isn't enough information in your posting to give a well-deliberated response.

How many rounds will your "Friend" be loading in one session?

What will the ammunition be used for? The accuracy demands placed on the ammo will go a long way to dictate the required equipment. Benchrest Target Shooting loads are quite different from Battle Rifle loads.

Will the load data change frequently? Load development is best done on a single stage press or on an arbor press. High volume production of a given load argues for a progressive press.
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Old 09-23-2021, 12:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vospertw View Post
they are working on some new bullet designs so they will be testing various bullets in batches.
I believe the customer is gov't/military and shooting 308.
If accuracy in their testing is a prime concern, they should be loading on a single stage press with weighed charges.
If the primary concern of the testing is functionality of the weapon that is firing the ammo, a progressive press would be fine.

When I started shooting precision rifle matches, I ran a test loading the same primers, powder, cases and bullets both on a progressive press and on a single stage with weighed charges and the weighed charges single stage press loads shot groups almost half the size of the progressive press.
I don't load precision rifle match ammo on a progressive press anymore after seeing that.
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