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  #41  
Old 10-11-2018, 3:52 PM
larkja larkja is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smashycrashy View Post
Not sure why this is a deal, the OP has been a great contributor to the ccw forums.. he presented a simple scenario and asked for reactions..

If you were half awake and the door is opening unexpectedly and you are unarmed, what do you do?
I have had this happen to me a couple times (and we live in a nice area). Once when a perp was hiding in our backyard under our trampoline; another time somebody was wiggling the front door at a time where the front door should not have been wiggling. Both the door lock and dead bolt were engaged.

Both times, the dogs woke us up and I was immediately WIDE awake. We called 911 for the backyard perp while the family and I stayed inside with gun in hand. I told the 911 operator I had a gun so when the cops came, they wouldn't shoot me.

The second time, I turned on the porch light and looked through the peephole only to see the back of somebody running away. (We have since installed a camera).

Not saying OP isn't a good contributor. Just too many things about the story don't add up.
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  #42  
Old 10-11-2018, 3:55 PM
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Originally Posted by baggss View Post
Yet you failed to comprehend it...
No need to be a Richard about it...

I moved this to the general gun forum because it is not a CCW issue.

To answer your OP... in the first case, I would not have been unarmed. I would have had a 12ga with a 2,000 lumin light on it 95% of the time. Sometimes I grab a .45 but most of the time it is a shotgun. I live out in the country and often investigate bumps in the night and things that get the dogs riled up. With one exception it has always been an animal or I never figure out what it is. I have had to shoot predators or stray dogs attacking my livestock before. So in short my first advice is not to respond unprepared in the future.

To your specific scenario, it would depend. I tend to agree with others about trying to close the door. Even if you are not that large, from six feet away and with the element of surprise, you could almost undoubtedly power the door closed. It is not like they are pushing against it. If that is not an option, I would yell that I was armed and command them to leave while making a "tactical" retreat to my room to arm myself and instruct my wife to call 911. I do not know what your situation is but I have young children so I would leave my room again and station myself in the hall and instruct my wife to get the kids into our room. If I did not have the kids, I would wait in my room and would not venture back out to engage them. They would have to come to me (chances of them doing this are slim to none) and I would wait for the police.

OK enough responses... time for the rest of the story.
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  #43  
Old 10-11-2018, 4:16 PM
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Retreating you create time and space, if you go towards the door and it’s someone who is armed or means you harm you could potentially be caught in a bad spot.
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  #44  
Old 10-11-2018, 4:20 PM
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Got to be careful about blowing holes in people that walk in to your home through an unlocked door.
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  #45  
Old 10-11-2018, 4:29 PM
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Originally Posted by smashycrashy View Post
Retreating you create time and space, if you go towards the door and it’s someone who is armed or means you harm you could potentially be caught in a bad spot.
I think that just depends on your house layout. In my house, if I am 6' from the door I'm in a hallway entry foyer where I have only two other options beyond charging the door - retreat back about 12' and turn to get out of line of sight or go in to my kitchen where I'm trapped. I'll get to the door alot faster.
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  #46  
Old 10-11-2018, 6:42 PM
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The story confused me but I've been sick
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  #47  
Old 10-11-2018, 7:02 PM
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i tend to have a gun near me at bedtime. takes all of 2 seconds to get that in absolute silence. my phone is next to the gun so i then grab that. with both if those in my hands i then walk to my my kids room and secure it. then i look at the camera footage on my phone. based on that i decide to call the police or leave my kids room to further investigate or deal with the issue.

there are other security measures no one really needs to know about. the one thing i wont do is focus on the front door. that causes tunnel vision and i have lots of time to move forward once i know the second floor is secured and there is nothing on the main floor i care about.

the biggest security issue i had was when my neighbor mistook me for a home invader. i normally am a homebody but my friend dropped me off around 2am one night and before i got within 20 feet of my front door my neighbor ran out of his garage yelling not to go into my house. i asked him why and as soon as he recognized me he said he thought i was breaking in and did not want a big gunfight. my buddy almost pulled his gun on my neighbor thinking he was drugged out. we all had an awkward laugh then went to our own homes.
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  #48  
Old 10-11-2018, 7:06 PM
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I got to about post #10 and then I realized...



Is OP any relation to Donald Babbett?
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  #49  
Old 10-11-2018, 8:14 PM
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I would go for the door and attempt to lock. From the slow jiggle, sounds like person was trying to be quiet and move slow, would not expect the door to slam shut. But, from the door I could also get back to bedroom easily in my place.
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  #50  
Old 10-11-2018, 10:08 PM
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Move towards the door and it flys open, then what? Or the person is surprised by the force and is armed and fires through the door. While the most likely outcome is the person runs off, if it’s a bad person you could be faced with a physical altercation at the least. Time and space, get armed and let them know you are alerted is the safest course of action.
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  #51  
Old 10-11-2018, 10:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by larkja View Post

BTW, what came of all this? Did you yell out and tell the person to leave? Did the person leave of his/her own accord? Was it your celebrity chef coming in early to cook you a special breakfast?

Inquiring minds want to know...
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Originally Posted by RANGER295 View Post

OK enough responses... time for the rest of the story.
Thanks for moving it. After I posted I realized that it was probably in the wrong forum. It makes me chuckle how silly people get when asked a pretty simple question. I find it interesting how many people immediately believe I'm trolling just because they don't want to answer the simple question. It wasn't hard...The incident has caused me to revaluate some things, maybe some don't want to question their own readiness or think about how things can go sideways....or how things may not always appear to be what they seem.

Ok, so what did happen?

I had to decide to either fight or retreat. My instinct was, as several people recommended, to rush the door and force it closed. I'm a big guy so throwing my weight against the door forced the person on the other side back, off my porch and onto the walkway that leads to my front door. I was able to lock both the dead bolt and the door knob while yelling at the intruder to "GET THE **** OUT OF MY HOUSE!!". Once I began to move the dogs, still barking, moved out of my and out of the way of the now rapidly closing door.

Once door was secured, and the dogs were still barking and going nuts, I heard a voice outside the door calling my name. My response was "WHO THE **** IS OUT THERE!?". Turns out it was my dog sitter. I looked through the peephole and indeed, it was my dog sitter. I unlocked and opened the door and the dogs ran out to greet her. She was as shook up as I was when someone screamed at her to get the **** out and slammed the door on her. Fortunately, she wasn't hurt by the slamming door.

Seems there was a miscommunication between her and my wife concerning when we were leaving that day (something else I left out purposely). My wife had texted her the previous afternoon and told her we were leaving Wednesday later than planned, at 5:30, meaning PM but she read 0530 as in AM. She was coming to do her morning check on the dogs and have her breakfast with them as she does when we have her watching them.

No, my door was not unlocked. No, my door was not open. No, the dog had not magically opened the door. Yes, she had a key but I couldn't hear the sound of the keys and the lock opening over the barking of the dogs. Yes, I was still half asleep right up to the point where I realized my door was opening. Then I was AWAKE! I left that out of my post on purpose.

We all think about being armed, or not armed, and having to fight off an intruder in our homes. That's good and we should continue to do so. What happens when the perceived intruder isn't really an intruder though? She did have access to my house and she honestly thought I was not at home. Coming out armed would have, at the very least, cost me a dog sitter and ruined my plans for the week and at the worst ended badly all the way around. Having access to a firearm in the kitchen area could have resulted in the same. Yet I still feel that my choices were limited not having a access to a weapon, at least up to the point where I realized the threat was not a threat.

So the things for me to consider are:

1) Everyone who recommends having dogs as a first line of defense is actually on point. Had this not been a non-threat I know at least one of my dogs would have gone out the door aiming to hurt the person on the other side. The other one would have followed, but how much she would have done is open to question.

2) If I had come out of the bedroom armed and watched the situation unfold, I might have taken a different course of action. This thought bothers me.

3) If it hadn't been someone who had access to the house and was an actual intruder being armed would have been the better option, but I wasn't. Makes me consider stashing a weapon closer to the door, but I realize that in this situation having access to a gun immediately might have been a bad thing. This also bothers me.

4) This incident is making me rethink home defense regardless. Perhaps my EDC needs to go into my nightstand drawer when I get home instead of atop my safe in the closet (which isn't really a closet and has a door that leads to my utility room etc.). Maybe I need to learn that my first instinct when both dogs run out barking in the middle of the night needs to be to grab my EDC regardless of where it is as well as the flashlight (which was on my nightstand already in this case) before I leave the bedroom. Maybe I need to stash a firearm in my living room or kitchen so I don't have to worry about having to retreat to arm myself. Lots of maybes. In the almost 6 years I've lived in this house I've never had anything like this happen. Hopefully I never will again.

Lots to for me to consider after this incident.
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  #52  
Old 10-11-2018, 10:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by baggss View Post

2) If I had come out of the bedroom armed and watched the situation unfold, I might have taken a different course of action. This thought bothers me.

3) If it hadn't been someone who had access to the house and was an actual intruder being armed would have been the better option, but I wasn't. Makes me consider stashing a weapon closer to the door, but I realize that in this situation having access to a gun immediately might have been a bad thing. This also bothers me.
What would have changed if you were armed, you wouldn't have fired without identifying your target..

The gun closest to me while sleeping isn't my EDC, it is my home defense gun with a TLR-1, my EDC doesn't have a light due to bulk and the expectation that most self defense scenarios outside of the home are close range affairs with the target already identified.

I still stand by the notion that time and space are your friend until you get armed up and sort through what is going on.. flipping on a light and verbalization help not only this particular scenario but really the general case scenarios as well. It would take a highly motivated individual or group to go into an alerted household..
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  #53  
Old 10-12-2018, 12:08 AM
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In the scenario you laid out, I would pretty much have done the same (kicked the door closed, yelled, used that new time to hastily retreat and arm myself).

But I would not get up to investigate a bump in the night without my nightstand gun or at least a club...

Why were you so groggy? By the time I'm out of bed, I'm alert. Had you imbibed the night before? Taken ambien or something?

Quote:
Originally Posted by baggss View Post
2) If I had come out of the bedroom armed and watched the situation unfold, I might have taken a different course of action. This thought bothers me.

3) If it hadn't been someone who had access to the house and was an actual intruder being armed would have been the better option, but I wasn't. Makes me consider stashing a weapon closer to the door, but I realize that in this situation having access to a gun immediately might have been a bad thing. This also bothers me.
I don't understand why having a gun in this situation would have been a bad thing. You yell "FREEZE!!!" "WHO'S THERE?!!" before the door opens. She freaks a little bit, says "dogsitter," and you put your gun down before she opens the door the rest of the way...
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  #54  
Old 10-12-2018, 12:31 AM
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Yell out;

“Honey, quick, get the camera. Somebody is finally trying to break in and I’m gonna test out the new shotgun!”.
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  #55  
Old 10-12-2018, 1:02 AM
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As was stated before, if the dogs are pissed off, dont answer the door without your gun. My dogs are really good judges of when something bad is about to happen.
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  #56  
Old 10-12-2018, 5:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smashycrashy View Post
What would have changed if you were armed, you wouldn't have fired without identifying your target..
What would have changed is I probably would have lost a good dog sitter. Finding someone you can trust not just with your pets but with your home while you are away isn't always easy.

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Originally Posted by 0ddl0t View Post
In the scenario you laid out, I would pretty much have done the same (kicked the door closed, yelled, used that new time to hastily retreat and arm myself).

But I would not get up to investigate a bump in the night without my nightstand gun or at least a club...

Why were you so groggy? By the time I'm out of bed, I'm alert. Had you imbibed the night before? Taken ambien or something? .
As I said previously, it's nit that uncommon for at least one of the dogs to bark at something at night. Most times we just ignore it since its a neighbor coming home late, a cat on the lawn, the wind and so on. Not on any meds that affect my sleep, I just really want expecting anything like this.

There is however a club hanging just behind the from door. One of those wooden ones that they sell at truck stops for tire thumping. Would have been a good weapon but I forgot that it was there....


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Originally Posted by 0ddl0t View Post
I don't understand why having a gun in this situation would have been a bad thing. You yell "FREEZE!!!" "WHO'S THERE?!!" before the door opens. She freaks a little bit, says "dogsitter," and you put your gun down before she opens the door the rest of the way...
Most likely you are correct.

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Originally Posted by njineermike View Post
As was stated before, if the dogs are pissed off, dont answer the door without your gun. My dogs are really good judges of when something bad is about to happen.
Yep. In this case they weren't pissed off, they were excited to see her....
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  #57  
Old 10-12-2018, 6:57 AM
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Pics of dog sitter or this didn't happen.
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  #58  
Old 10-12-2018, 7:18 AM
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I called it; BS scenario.

You left out a pretty important bit of information. Shame on me for biting on this one. In your OP, you could easily have said, "I always lock my door at night." Which means, somebody had a key trying to get in. An intruder would not have stuck around with the porch light on and noise inside; an intruder would not have stuck around with dogs barking (easier targets elsewhere).

Which means, not an intruder at all.

Lame scenario because you didn't include all the info
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  #59  
Old 10-12-2018, 7:26 AM
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Need to learn your dogs barks. My dogs have different sound to their bark for strangers, people they know, animals(deer, cats, other dogs, etc... If you pay attention you'll get to where you can tell the difference in bark and what they barking at.
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Old 10-12-2018, 7:29 AM
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How is this thread not in OT? It surely has that flavor.
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Old 10-12-2018, 9:44 AM
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Need to learn your dogs barks. My dogs have different sound to their bark for strangers, people they know, animals(deer, cats, other dogs, etc... If you pay attention you'll get to where you can tell the difference in bark and what they barking at.
My wife has told me the same thing. I have noticed variances at times but not enough that I can pick up on it all the time.

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Originally Posted by larkja View Post

You left out a pretty important bit of information. Shame on me for biting on this one. In your OP, you could easily have said, "I always lock my door at night." Which means, somebody had a key trying to get in. An intruder would not have stuck around with the porch light on and noise inside; an intruder would not have stuck around with dogs barking (easier targets elsewhere).

Which means, not an intruder at all.
Perhaps, but at the time it was happening I didn't realize it wasn't an intruder, at least not until I actually knew it was my dog sitter. Yes, I always lock my doors at night, right up until for some reason I don't, it's happened once or twice. You don't realize it until you go to unlock it the next day and realize it's already unlocked. That being said, I don't regularly use my front door so it's almost always locked.
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Old 10-12-2018, 1:15 PM
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Similar situation here. Two German Shepherds in the 100 lb range and a puppy GS at around 60 lbs.

What would I do?

Go back to the bedroom and wake my menopausal wife and go back to bed.

250ish lbs of German Shepherd and one menopausal/crazy wife can handle anything coming through the door. Whatever is left. I can clean up in the morning.

Or when woken with dogs in our rural area. I'd grab the bedside pistol and take with me and still let the dogs do him in.

Less explaining and grief if dogs eat an intruder as opposed to me shooting them.
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Old 10-12-2018, 1:38 PM
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I would immediately bolt back to the bedroom, grab a pistol and hand it to the wife and have her stay put and have 911 ready to dial (but not dial yet until I know it's really an emergency), take shotgun back to the kitchen and point it at the front door (safety still on, finger off trigger) and wait for what happens next.

Hope for the best, but plan for the worst, I always say.

It could be nothing life threatening. An in-law who came over unannounced because they didn't want to call first and wake us up. A drunk neighbor who thought it was his own house. An animal scratching at the door handle trying to get to my barking dogs. So I wouldn't want to put myself in a situation where I get overzealous and shoot something/someone that I shouldn't, but I want to be as ready as I can to shoot if it's necessary, but also ready to drrop/hide the shotgun quickly in case it wasn't needed, so as to minimize the chance that someone gets a heart attack or PTSD.

The consequences that come from me potentially pointing a shotgun at someone who doesn't deserve it, I'll worry about later. They should have known that if they come in to an unoccupied house at night, unannounced, they might get a gun pointed at them. A valuable lesson that could save them from getting shot someday at someone else's house.




ETA: just read your second half of the story, and I'm really not sure it would change what I did in that scenario, even knowing now, in hindsight, that they legitimately thought it was OK to enter the home unannounced. I'd try to save the relationship with the dog-sitter later by coming up with a plan, going forward, to avoid such things in the future. Like, ring the doorbell twice to make sure nobody is home before entering.
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Old 10-12-2018, 1:38 PM
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I would have fed the dogs and grabbed a bowl of Frosted flakes for myself.
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Old 10-12-2018, 10:37 PM
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I'D loudly rack my double barrel shotgun, fire 2 blasts through the door and go back to bed.
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Old 10-12-2018, 11:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pardini View Post
Got to be careful about blowing holes in people that walk in to your home through an unlocked door.
EXACTLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I had nearly exact same situation happen at 02:30 one day.

Prior to that only a few hours at 00:30 one of the dogs goes into seizures, and is kicking the wall heater grill, BANG, BANG, BANG, BANG!!!!!!!!!!!!!

WTF IS THAT HOLY CRAP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Get the ailing dog under control, clean up all the urine she let lose during the process. Finally get back to sleep. I am very much on edge.

Fast forward to 02:30

We have electronic access lock on the front door. However, there is a manual dead bolt as well. I hear a Beep, Beep, Beep...... it wakes me so I don't know what it is (someone entering the door code) at first I thought it was a dream. Wife is out of town. She texted me around 10pm before I went to bed, and she's across the country (IT IS NOT HER!!!!!!!!!!!!!)

Then I hear the CLANK of someone trying top OPEN THE DOOR AND BEING STOPPED BY THE DEAD BOLT.

O-M-G

This made me rethink my gun access SOP since at the time I didn't keep a loaded gun. Now I do.

I get up, and TURN ON ALL THE LIGHTS in the hall and living room. I maintain about 15 feet from the door because I'm not armed and need to retreat if I have to.

THE DOOR IS OPEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! only as far as the dead bolt will allow (it's like the hotel latches so it can open about 2 inches)

I've already decided in my head if I see fingers trying and fiddle with the dead bolt I will CHARGE THE DOOR AND SLAM IT ON THEM (CRUSHING THEIR FINGERS) with all my weight.

It doesn't get to that, but I yell at the front door in my most vulgar voice and volume I can muster.

WHO THE FOK IS THERE?????????????????


***********

Turns out it was a friend of my wife's. They were in town for a few days for a conference and was given the access code to stay the night.

NO ONE TOLD ME!!!!!!!!!!!!! Otherwise I would have left the deadbolt unlocked.

***********

I realized I lucked out I didn't need a gun, but if I did I didn't have it at the time.

Now I have a quick access pistol ready with a loaded magazine (not chambered) with a laser dot. So I have to be awake enough to snap out of it, open the safe, and rack the slide.
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Old 10-13-2018, 12:00 AM
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Cameras and motion/thermal sensors are your friends. I can dismiss 99% of my perceived threats without getting out of bed. For the 1%, I slip on NVGs, grab a gun and lurk in the shadows. Let technology work for you and avoid any uncertainty in your threat level.
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Old 10-13-2018, 6:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snoopy47 View Post
Now I have a quick access pistol ready with a loaded magazine (not chambered) with a laser dot. So I have to be awake enough to snap out of it, open the safe, and rack the slide.
Why wouldn’t you have it chambered? Whenever I hear something like that it indicates someone not confident with firearms.

I’d also have a light not a laser on said pistol.
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  #69  
Old 10-13-2018, 6:57 AM
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I have 3 dogs. mostly pitbulls but although their bark is menacing they're actually the licking committee as soon as you walk through the door provided we are actually there to let them know all is good. If we aren't then they will take care of business.

First of all I believe your first mistake was leaving your wife with her *%&$! in her hand either still sleeping or unaware that you're out investigating. A simple call by either of you to 911 to initiate contact is fine. "I hear something out front....I see the door opening....oh wait...its nothing. Sorry good night" or the other scenario but at least they know you're protecting your property and you are armed.

The dog will alert you if anything is REALLY wrong be either bark turning into bite sounds so listen for that. But at least your wife won't be alone and you can protect both her and yourself by being in a house that YOU know and the intruder doesnt. If you have kids then they are your first priority in which case your wife should be awake with her firearm in her hand and phone in the other and you should have CLEAR communication rules so that if the SHTF she knows its you AND the kids walking through the door and not the intruder.

All these people that say "go find out what it is with your gun and flashlight" need a reality check on their plan. You do not leave your loved one in the dark so to speak. There is one thing that you can control and that is the door to the bedroom assuming you have one door into your bedroom. Flashlight into the eyes with clear communication that you will fire if they approach and that the police are on their way is plenty especially if 911 can hear it on the other side of the phone. You're establishing grounds for a justified shoot.

This is not the scenario to test your tactics of clearing a house by using what you learn in some class or saw on TV. you are NOT clearing a house. you're protecting your loved ones and yourself.

My advice if this scenario scared your wife enough is to sit down with her and come up with a plan. and again that plan should be stay by her side. Have a trauma kit and know how to use it. With the cops being 20 minutes out the paramedics are twice that time if not more out. Establish communication signals, verbal commands, etc with your wife so she knows she's talking to the right person and visa versa. and please please please...never leave her alone in bed sleeping. when they're done with you. they WILL go to work on her. That something you want to happen?
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Old 10-13-2018, 7:25 AM
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Old 10-13-2018, 7:28 AM
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Probably the only time I’ve agreed with anything I’ve read from Smashy.


My ex wife lives next to an older couple...the husband is in the early stages of Alzheimer’s. He has, on occasion, tried to get in to the wrong house.

Unacceptable yes, but certainly understandable in a very sad way.

A simple announcement of your intention to dissuade any bad guy from entering your premises whilst standing behind 200lbs worth of gnashing canine teeth is a relatively safe initial “contact”.



Quote:
Originally Posted by smashycrashy View Post
I'd yell out something ("Can I help you with something" or just "Hey") and hit a light.. while heading towards the nearest firearm. If I could get the dogs to bark more I'd do so (training dependent).

Very few (like zero) burglars are going to go forward once detected. The ones that do are either drunk (mistaken address) or high. I'm fine with giving up a "tactical advantage" of surprise if it means the people go away without a shot fired. Since I would be falling back from the location I verbalized it isn't giving up much.

It could be any number of things, I once had a deer hit my front door .. I was in an apartment on the second floor.. and a deer got spooked, ran up the stairs and hit my door.. no reasonable way to think the thing that just pounded on your front door was a deer.. but it was. If I had kids away at college... perhaps one came home for some reason.. drunken mistake address.. etc..

Verbalize, hit a light, fallback, get a gun.. have the misses call 911 if it continued. Every bullet has a lawsuit attached, I don't have to stop the intruder at the door (especially with dogs).
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Old 10-13-2018, 7:29 AM
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We now live rural. So 911 call response could be 30 minutes. A call to neighbors has a small army assembled in a few minutes as would the sounds of self-defense.
Wife is ex, now once again, LEO.
I love living back in AZ.

Come on, make California great again.

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Old 10-13-2018, 7:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LAKA90034 View Post
Probably the only time I’ve agreed with anything I’ve read from Smashy.


My ex wife lives next to an older couple...the husband is in the early stages of Alzheimer’s. He has, on occasion, tried to get in to the wrong house.

Unacceptable yes, but certainly understandable in a very sad way.

A simple announcement of your intention to dissuade any bad guy from entering your premises whilst standing behind 200lbs worth of gnashing canine teeth is a relatively safe initial “contact”.
I had a neighbor with a great video system, he showed me a video of his Alzheimer’s neighbor who came up to his front door.. pull out a screwdriver and start Jimmying the lock. My neighbor just yelled and scared him off. While scary, not exactly a situation you want to use a firearm.
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Old 10-13-2018, 8:06 AM
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Make noise?
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Old 10-13-2018, 8:15 AM
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Was this a dream?

Why wouldn't you have your gun in your hand if it wasn't a dream ?
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  #76  
Old 10-13-2018, 8:20 AM
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