30rd mag in .22lr conversion

[crrose]

Can you use a 30rd magazine in an AR with a drop in 22lr conversion kit if it has a fixed magazine or since it is fixed it must be 10rd like on AR15 with evil features.

I've read and read and read different subjects here and i'm still confused. Some say unless you put a buffer block in or change hand grip and remove flash hider then it's still considered an AW because you can easily switch out the BCG.

Would be nice to be able to use 30rd magazine and target practice with an "evil" looking AR and be able to switch BCG out to .223 when you want to shoot .223 and use a 10rd mag.

Like this quote from another post on legality of .22lr conversion: "So if you have a Ciener 22LR AR with evil features, USE CARE IN CLEANING AND DISASSEMBLY. Do NOT JUST REMOVE THE 22LR BOLT CARRIER ASSY, unless & until you change other features FIRST! MonsterMan or fin wedge grip, fixed stock, etc. Very helpful to NOT have a Flash Hider on such a gun. ALWAYS KEEP THE GUN IN A LEGAL CONFIGURATION AND NEVER TRANSITION, even for a moment, THRU AN ILLEGAL CONFIGURATION."

Then you read DOJ it says if firing pin, BCG or upper and lower separated then it would not be considered an AW.

[DB>]

I'll see if I can shed a little light on what I think your question is....

Rimfire (.22lr) is generally exempt from the "evil features" legalities. If you have a 30 round that is legally acquired, that should be OK to use while we wait on the further rulings in the ongoing litigation.

Where it gets tricky is when you swap the rimfire parts to centerfire, and then you'd need to be compliant with that set of laws.

[crrose]

Ok one has .22lr drop in conversion with fixed magazine and evil features, the other has .223 BCG and has evil features with fixed magazine of 10rds so everything is legal with both right now correct.

[AR22]

Cannot help I as left there over 20 years ago. But are you talking about the .22 Long Rifle Magazine with a 30 round capacity? I only have straight 25 round Conversion mags. I would like to know if someone is making a 30 round .22 conversion mag. I do have 50 round but they drums? Thanks

[crrose]

Sorry, the .22 magazines are not 30 but 25 rounds. It's just the fact that they are over 10 round that I am curious about since can't have more then 10 rounds in a fixed magazine set up but this is a .22lr rim fire not centerfire.

[autoduel]

30515 defines an assault weapon as:
2. A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has a fixed magazine with the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds.

It appears that the 10 rnd limit for a "fixed magazine" is only applicable to "centerfire rifles"

[ARFrog]

See Librarian's post #5 in this thread:

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...azine+capacity

Unless you have Freedom Week standard mags, have a .22 with a tubular magazine or are shooting a lever action rifle, if you have a magazine with more than 10 round capacity you "gonna have some splaining to do" Ricky! In other words, no you can't have a 30 round mag capacity in an AR 22.

[crrose]

See this is why I am so confused...everyone has a different answer..Since it is shooting rimfire does that not exclude .22lr from AW status?

[ARFrog]

OP, decouple your mind from .22 cal and start again.

No magazines with capacity above 10 in California.

But remember there are a few exceptions - non center fire . 22 cal with tubular magazine or lever action.

Ask yourself the question - does my AR 22 fit the exceptions criteria? If not, then once again, no you can't have a 30 round mag for your AR 22.

I admit it can be confusing - especially since pieces of the law are found in multiple places. Unfortunately we are responsible for compliance even when it is confusing.

If it makes you feel better, you can have "evil features" on your AR 22 even if you can't have a standard capacity magazine.

Edit: also remember there is no requirement for CA laws to make sense.

[oktavist]

This is exactly why my bolt action .22LR rifle is a registered assault weapon in california...
Edit: It's like ca has 3 different definitions of "assault weapon"

[crrose]

I will just leave it as a fixed magazine with the Hogue Freedom Fighter kit installed and go ahead and get the ARMaglock kingpin for it. I don't want to change everything and have the AW ban overturned and have to spend money to put all the features back.

[autoduel]

You can have 30rnd magazines if you acquired them before 2000 or during freedom week.
If you legally own them, you can use them in a rimfire AR without triggering AW status. It seems like the above responses are regarding the legalities of obtaining the mags themselves rather than the AW status being triggered by using +10 mags you already own.
Using legally owned BX25's in your 10/22 doesn't make it an AW.

[ar15barrels]

Originally Posted by ARFrog

See Librarian's post #5 in this thread:

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...azine+capacity

Unless you have Freedom Week standard mags, have a .22 with a tubular magazine or are shooting a lever action rifle,
if you have a magazine with more than 10 round capacity you "gonna have some splaining to do" Ricky!
In other words, no you can't have a 30 round mag capacity in an AR 22.

That is about the MAGAZINES themselves.
Legally acquired large capacity magazines can be used with features in a rimfire rifle without the rifle becoming an assault weapon.

So he won't have no "splaining to do" unless he is breaking a law.
In other words, it's completely legal to have a large capacity magazine in an AR 22 as long as the magazines are legally acquired.

[ar15barrels]

Originally Posted by crrose

See this is why I am so confused...everyone has a different answer..Since it is shooting rimfire does that not exclude .22lr from AW status?

In order to BE an assault weapon, a rifle has to be centerfire and semi-auto.
Your rimfire is NOT centerfire so it can not BE an assault weapon unless you convert it to a centerfire.

[ar15barrels]

Originally Posted by ARFrog

OP, decouple your mind from .22 cal and start again.

No magazines with capacity above 10 in California.

But remember there are a few exceptions - non center fire . 22 cal with tubular magazine or lever action.

Decouple your mind from the "guilty until proven innocent" mindset and start again.

Legally acquired large capacity magazines are legal to possess and use.
Such as those acquired before the magazine ban was enacted or those purchased during the magazine freedom week.
There is NO rule that applies universally like you are stating.
In the case of CENTERFIRE rifles, fixing a large capacity magazine into a semi-auto centerfire rifle absolutely creates an assault weapon.
This is NOT the case with rimfire rifles.
Nor is this the case with featureless centerfire rifles where the magazine is NOT fixed to the action.
Rimfire rifles can have large capacity removable OR fixed magazines because they are NOT centerfire.

The only truth is that are NO absolute rules.

[ARFrog]

Originally Posted by ar15barrels

That is about the MAGAZINES themselves.
Legally acquired large capacity magazines can be used with features in a rimfire rifle without the rifle becoming an assault weapon.

So he won't have no "splaining to do" unless he is breaking a law.
In other words, it's completely legal to have a large capacity magazine in an AR 22 as long as the magazines are legally acquired.

- "about the magazines." DUH, that's the essence, isn't it.

- "legally acquired." That's the rub. If you don't have pre-ban, Freedom magazines, or exempt feeding devices, then you have a problem.

- can use a rimfire with features. This is true for someone with legal magazines or not and was not stated otherwise.

- not having a "guilt" mindset. Not a problem and not something I spend a lot of time pondering. Instead, I find it best to understand the limitations of the law and see if there are legal work-arounds. In this case the OP in post #1 asked about using standard magazines in an AR22. He did not say he had "legal" magazines, therefore the discussion of not using them unless he had exempted exceptions.

[Paperchasin]

You can basically use any capacity magazine that you possess in your 22lr conversion or complete AR22 rifle. However/Whenever you acquired those magazines is a different topic.

[ar15barrels]

Originally Posted by ARFrog

He did not say he had "legal" magazines, therefore the discussion of not using them unless he had exempted exceptions.

That's a perfect example of how a "guilty until proven innocent" mindset.

Did he say his magazines were acquired in an illegal manner?
No.

You assumed it.
You assumed GUILTY because he did not specifically state that they were legally acquired.

[ARFrog]

I believe the issue here is not assumptions and guilt but one of reading comprehension.

OP states his question in post #1 and says he is confused. OP is told that he can use standard mags if he has one of the valid exemptions.

OP restates his confusion in post#5 on can he use his 25 round mags.

I understand that each of us make our own judgements on whether we will conform to existing laws or not. However, stating the circumstances of the law is not an admission of guilt or a mindset of guilt.

If OP already has "legal mags" it would seem that there is nothing to discuss and this thread has no purpose.

I will leave things as in Paperchasin's comments in post #17.

[crufflers]

Originally Posted by ARFrog

OP, decouple your mind from .22 cal and start again.

No magazines with capacity above 10 in California.

Except the metric eff ton that marched in for one week recently... and the hundred metric eff tons of kits that were for sale on CA shelves for years (replacing all the old ones that broke down), and the gazillion that were already here from before any bans.

I assume that any newer designs like Pmags, Lancer, Magpul drums etc... are all here due to the recent Million Mag March. IMHO. YMMV.

I never see any illegal mags.

[Robert1234]

Originally Posted by ARFrog

If OP already has "legal mags" it would seem that there is nothing to discuss and this thread has no purpose.

Except his question was "can I use 30 round mags in a rimfire AR15?" (paraphrased)

He made no mention of how he acquired them, some assumed legally, you assumed illegally.

Those who assumed legally simply tried to answer the question as asked, which is/was the purpose if this thread.

[ARFrog]

Originally Posted by Robert1234

Except his question was "can I use 30 round mags in a rimfire AR15?" (paraphrased)

He made no mention of how he acquired them, some assumed legally, you assumed illegally.

Those who assumed legally simply tried to answer the question as asked, which is/was the purpose if this thread.

Again with the lack of reading comprehension...

1.) your paraphrase omits the second part of the first sentence where the OP also brings up the notion of 10 rounds.

2.) the notion of legality was brought up by the OP in his second post, by another OP in post #2 and again in a third OP's posts #13 and #15. My comment in post #5 stated that UNLESS you had mags that fit into exceptions or rifles in other approved configurations, then you could not use them if they had more than 10 rds. I left it to the OP to decide what he had and what he could do or not do. I did not use the legal word but did try to make a Lucy Riccardo joke by referencing the "splaining" comment. I also also cited a post by the Librarian to back this up (which no one has commented on or refuted.)

I fully understand that we all want to use standard capacity magazines. Some do so because they have pre-ban mags; some because they have freedom mags; and some use them because they are willing to take the risk and play "catch me if you can" (which is fine if this their "informed" choice.)

It is interesting that there is another thread currently on Calguns about a DA prosecuting a member for using/having a 10+ magazine. I don't know whether he bought it that way, modified a blocked mag, it's pre-ban or Freedom, or if the DA is looking for notoriety. But the circumstance should give us all pause in this instance when some are basically telling a "confused" questioner that if he has one then he can use it - without regard to any clarifications or what the law tells us.

So, given that I am not and have no interest in being the "mag police", do with the information, opinion, etc what you will.

[Robert1234]

Originally Posted by ARFrog

Again with the lack of reading comprehension...

1.) your paraphrase omits the second part of the first sentence where the OP also brings up the notion of 10 rounds.

2.) the notion of legality was brought up by the OP in his second post, by another OP in post #2 and again in a third OP's posts #13 and #15. My comment in post #5 stated that UNLESS you had mags that fit into exceptions or rifles in other approved configurations, then you could not use them if they had more than 10 rds. I left it to the OP to decide what he had and what he could do or not do. I did not use the legal word but did try to make a Lucy Riccardo joke by referencing the "splaining" comment. I also also cited a post by the Librarian to back this up (which no one has commented on or refuted.)

I fully understand that we all want to use standard capacity magazines. Some do so because they have pre-ban mags; some because they have freedom mags; and some use them because they are willing to take the risk and play "catch me if you can" (which is fine if this their "informed" choice.)

It is interesting that there is another thread currently on Calguns about a DA prosecuting a member for using/having a 10+ magazine. I don't know whether he bought it that way, modified a blocked mag, it's pre-ban or Freedom, or if the DA is looking for notoriety. But the circumstance should give us all pause in this instance when some are basically telling a "confused" questioner that if he has one then he can use it - without regard to any clarifications or what the law tells us.

So, given that I am not and have no interest in being the "mag police", do with the information, opinion, etc what you will.

Admit it, you made an assumption, and your assumption was incorrect for the scenario given. Casting aspersions at everyone who noticed doesn't change that. Own it and move on, that's what adults do. It's an internet forum, not peace talks between two warring nations.

Why are you so desperate to prove you weren't wrong when you so obviously were dude?

[ARFrog]

Originally Posted by Robert1234

Admit it, you made an assumption, and your assumption was incorrect for the scenario given. Casting aspersions at everyone who noticed doesn't change that. Own it and move on, that's what adults do. It's an internet forum, not peace talks between two warring nations.

Why are you so desperate to prove you weren't wrong when you so obviously were dude?

Once again, "do with the information, opinion, etc what you will."

If it makes you feel better imparting your assumptions of original sin, I now respond as follows:

I have sinned...

I have done wrong...

Mea culpa to the Calguns masses.

I await my bus to the re-education camp in occupied Seattle.

[pinger]

Seattle... hahahah that's funny

[Silence Dogood]

This thread is a laugh and a half.

A few CGers got caught up arguing semantics with one another, all stating truths, each clearly founded in their own perspectives and assumptions. Nothing new to anyone familiar with Calguns.net about that.

But it isn't the bickering that amuses me!

All of the 25 posts are accurate in their statements of fact (inherently excepting stated opinions which can neither be true or false) except for one: post #10.

And what's hilarious to me about this is the fact that in all of the bickering, no one seems to have noticed the false statement:

Originally Posted by oktavist

This is exactly why my bolt action .22LR rifle is a registered assault weapon in california...

I'm curious, oktavist, how did CA DOJ respond to the registration application for your rimfire bolt-action firearm? Or was this post a joke?

[ar15barrels]

Originally Posted by Silence Dogood

All of the 25 posts are accurate in their statements of fact (inherently excepting stated opinions which can neither be true or false) except for one: post #10.

And what's hilarious to me about this is the fact that in all of the bickering, no one seems to have noticed the false statement:

I'm curious, oktavist, how did CA DOJ respond to the registration application for your rimfire bolt-action firearm? Or was this post a joke?

Obvious joke post is obvious.
Unnamed rimfire's can't be assault weapons.

[crufflers]

Originally Posted by Silence Dogood

This thread is a laugh and a half.

But it isn't the bickering that amuses me!

joke?

Yep, you are pretty quick.

[rookie]

I am very confused on this rimfire magazine rules. I was at poway weapons and gear earlier today and they had m&p 15-22 magazines that held 25 rounds for sale on the rack. I was really surprised because I thought these were illegal but one of the guys behind the counter said rimfire was exempt. Hmm...

[crufflers]

Originally Posted by rookie

I am very confused on this rimfire magazine rules. I was at poway weapons and gear earlier today and they had m&p 15-22 magazines that held 25 rounds for sale on the rack. I was really surprised because I thought these were illegal but one of the guys behind the counter said rimfire was exempt. Hmm...

Uh huh... I doubt they had 25 rounders for sale. Selling them NOW and using them now are two different things... and the LGS guy was probably correct referring to the fact that rim fire doesn’t have to be featureless... not referring to the mag he could legally sell NOW.

[ar15barrels]

Originally Posted by rookie

I am very confused on this rimfire magazine rules.
I was at poway weapons and gear earlier today and they had m&p 15-22 magazines that held 25 rounds for sale on the rack.
I was really surprised because I thought these were illegal but one of the guys behind the counter said rimfire was exempt.
Hmm...

There is NO exemption for ANY specific caliber of detachable magazines.

[oktavist]

I'm curious, oktavist, how did CA DOJ respond to the registration application for your rimfire bolt-action firearm? Or was this post a joke?

The whole rifle is a joke. I registered it as a multi-cal lower with radlock and .223 upper installed on it.

Then I got a .22 upper for it. Then I got a bolt action conversion. Then I started thinking about milling a slot in a spare upper and drilling and tapping a bolt handle onto a CMMG .22 conversion bolt... You see where this is going? I have never de-registered it as a BBRAW.

It's totally pointless, but I think it's also hilarious. I'm happy if some of you laughed.

[ar15barrels]

Originally Posted by oktavist

This is exactly why my bolt action .22LR rifle is a registered assault weapon in california...

Your initial statement is VERY misleading.

Originally Posted by oktavist

The whole rifle is a joke.
I registered it as a multi-cal lower with radlock and and .223 upper installed on it.

Then I got a .22 upper for it.
Then I got a bolt action conversion.
Then I started thinking about milling a slot in a spare upper and drilling and tapping a bolt handle onto a CMMG .22 conversion bolt...

So you did NOT submit AW registration for a 22LR bolt action rifle.
You CONVERTED your registered centerfire bullet button AW into a 22LR bolt action.
That's VERY different than actually REGISTERING a bolt action 22LR as a BBRAW.
Your BBAW was NOT registered as a 22LR bolt rifle.

Originally Posted by oktavist

You see where this is going?

Nope.

[Phugedaboudet]

you didn't buy all yours during Freedom Week?

If it had lasted 2 days more, I'd have a hundred round Calico M22 right now

Originally Posted by ARFrog

See Librarian's post #5 in this thread:

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...azine+capacity

Unless you have Freedom Week standard mags, have a .22 with a tubular magazine or are shooting a lever action rifle, if you have a magazine with more than 10 round capacity you "gonna have some splaining to do" Ricky! In other words, no you can't have a 30 round mag capacity in an AR 22.

[AR22]

Are you sure the SW 25 rounders were actually 25 round. SW does make longskin mags that look like 25 rounders I believe. But were made to hold only ten. They did it with a block of some kind I believe to satisfy sales to ban areas. They do make short skin regular tens too.

[ARFrog]

Not sure what the OP saw but S&W M&P 15-22 polymer magazines come in 3 configurations:

- 25 round long mag case with load assist
- 10 round that are blocked in a long mag case without load assist
- 10 round short mag case with load assist

Here is a vendor with pictorial examples:

https://gunmagwarehouse.com/catalogs...true&q=S%26W+m

[Rod Nokin]

I was pretty proud of the 50 round drum mag for my MP5-22 that I got during freedom week last year. So I could legally buy one anyway?

[RickD427]

Originally Posted by autoduel

30515 defines an assault weapon as:
2. A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has a fixed magazine with the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds.

It appears that the 10 rnd limit for a "fixed magazine" is only applicable to "centerfire rifles"

Originally Posted by ARFrog

OP, decouple your mind from .22 cal and start again.

No magazines with capacity above 10 in California.

But remember there are a few exceptions - non center fire . 22 cal with tubular magazine or lever action.

Ask yourself the question - does my AR 22 fit the exceptions criteria? If not, then once again, no you can't have a 30 round mag for your AR 22.

I admit it can be confusing - especially since pieces of the law are found in multiple places. Unfortunately we are responsible for compliance even when it is confusing.

If it makes you feel better, you can have "evil features" on your AR 22 even if you can't have a standard capacity magazine.

Edit: also remember there is no requirement for CA laws to make sense.

One of the reasons for a lot of the confusion discussed in this thread is that there are two very different statutes that apply to the OP's question. It's a good idea to consider them separately.

With regard to the ASSAULT WEAPON statute - So long as the weapon is not on the "Evil by Name" list, a weapon is defined as an "Assault Weapon" if it meets the criteria listed in the code. In the case of rifles, one of the criteria is that it be "Centerfire." A centerfire rifle having a fixed magazine of more than ten rounds capacity is an "Assault Weapon" and a felony to possess if not registered. But since a rimfire rifle is not a centerfire rifle, a rimfire rifle may possess a fixed magazine with a capacity of more than ten rounds.

Please note that this only applies to RIFLES. PISTOLS are a very different story. A pistol having a fixed magazine with a capacity of more than 10 rounds is an "Assault Weapon" regardless of whether it is rimfire or centerfire.

Folks who make the distinction between centerfire and rimfire, without also making the distinction between rifle and pistol are showing ignorance of the statute.

With regard to the LARGE CAPACITY MAGAZINE statute - Possession of Large Capacity Magazines, regardless of whether rimfire or centerfire, is currently illegal in California, but enforcement of that law has been enjoined by a federal court, thus removing the potential for current enforcement of that statute. It is important to note that some feeding devices of more than 10 rounds are exempted from definition as "Large Capacity Magazines" (Refer to Penal Code Section 16740).

It is still possible to prosecute violations of the Large Capacity Magazine statute involving the manufacture and importation of such magazines, but that requires a a showing of when the actual violation occurred and, as a practical matter, a prosecutor is going to have a difficult time making that showing where a person is simply caught with a large capacity magazine.

[ar15barrels]

Originally Posted by Rod Nokin

I was pretty proud of the 50 round drum mag for my MP5-22 that I got during freedom week last year.
So I could legally buy one anyway?

You could NOT buy/manufacture/import/offer-for-sale/sell one in CA at this time or any other time exceot freedom week or before 2000.

[Jimi Jah]

My AR-22 is dedicated. Real .22LR barrel and BCG. The buffer and buffer spring have been removed.

That way the lower cannot be used centerfire. It has a pistol grip, linear compensator (love those) and an adjustable stock, looks totally evil next to it's centerfire featureless brothers.

I have a bunch of Black Dog and Sig 10 rounders that were "modified" during my freedom week. I cut out the plastic insert and now they hold 15 rounds each. Newer versions are welded so that's off the table now until the courts figure out the difference between their mouths and @ss.