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Competition, Action Shooting And Training. Competition, Three gun, IPSC, IDPA , and Training discussion here.

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  #12481  
Old 11-17-2020, 7:17 AM
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XDJYo XDJYo is offline
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Originally Posted by NorthBay Shooter View Post
Vinnie, which gun is on the nightstand? That is the gun you should train with regardless of how many other guns are in the safe. If you have a CCW, then I would train with that gun, but if I recall you are in the bay area so that may not apply.
I think part of that journey in training with the XD9 might be a change in the nightstand gun. I know it would be with me.

The proof is in the target. How often and how many can you get in the target? How quickly can you do so?

Anyways, just my 2 cents adjusted for inflation and CA tax rate.
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  #12482  
Old 11-17-2020, 7:51 AM
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Vinnie Boombatz Vinnie Boombatz is offline
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Originally Posted by NorthBay Shooter View Post
Vinnie, which gun is on the nightstand? That is the gun you should train with regardless of how many other guns are in the safe. If you have a CCW, then I would train with that gun, but if I recall you are in the bay area so that may not apply.
The M9A1 was the nightstand gun because at the time it was my only firearm with a rail for a light (besides the 590A1 that also has a light on it). Jus picked up the XD9 and have a light for it, but haven't had it to the range yet and made sure it cycles hollow points without a problem. I've just dry firing at home and practicing with a G-Sight ELMS laser round. I'll probably take the XD9 to Front Sight for the skill builder class and put it through it's paces. If I like it and I do well with it I'll probably replace the Beretta with it as the nightstand gun. I hate to admit it, although it's just been dry firing and practicing at home I'm more consistent and accurate with the XD9 so far. Still love mt Berettas (also have a 92FS) and would still keep practicing and dialing in that DA/DA trigger pull.
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  #12483  
Old 11-21-2020, 8:36 AM
TeamAllen TeamAllen is offline
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Not much to report about the rest of my training. The entire place was packed. There was a bunch of families. Kids all over the place. Some kind of program. They ran around yelling Battle Buddies. Looked like fun.

I still can't shoot well enough to DG the class. There was one new thing at the rifle inspection. Instead of pulling the trigger with the meter They have actual 4 lbs. of weight on a metal rod. It has a roller on the trigger end. They just stand your rifle upright on the butt stock and let the weights hang. If it doesn't trip you are good to go. Mine tripped at first. I think when he picked it up he kind of shook the rifle. He was more exact on the next two attempts. I have an adjustable elftmann trigger set at 4.2 oz.

https://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-t...-prod9710.aspx

I really didn't care for the Constitutional lecture. I hope that doesn't sound un-American or not patriotic. I don't think it was a usual lecture. There was another guy there and they joined some kind of webcast or something. I left early. I did try the BBQ pulled pork sandwich. Just adequate.

I met Brad Akerman. He was there as well. My son always jokes that he isn't real. He is like an actor or something. So that was proof for him.
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  #12484  
Old 11-21-2020, 12:09 PM
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DRM6000 DRM6000 is online now
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I finished a four-day rifle marksmanship class on Thursday. A buddy and I both took it for the first time. He wanted to take it and I did it just because I've never done it and having an excuse to get away and go to FS is never a bad thing.

This course is an entry-level rifle class like the practical rifle course, but with a different purpose - to learn to hit small targets. This course is great for the person who might hunt and for those who want to gain marksmanship skills. It is also the gatekeeper to the precision rifle course. I think that the test is more challenging than the the one in practical rifle.

Our instructors were:

Josh Skoog (RM)
Ben Reynolds
Kevin Colton(?)
Frank...err...something (he's one of the three Precision Rifle instructors if you know him)

We had a mix of students from those who never shot a rifle to experienced shooters. On day one we had 40 or so students including a few that were two-dayers. By day four, we were down to 22 or so.

For those who have taken the entry-level courses will find the first two days boring as usual. They go over safety, the anatomy and operation of a rifle, the basic principles of marksmanship and shooting platforms. The majority of the learning and drills were conducted on those two days. Those days were the busiest.

Day three is when things picked up a bit, but the pace slowed down. Most of the day was spent gathering data. We shot to measure bullet drop at various distances from 35 yds to 350 yds. I think the target sizes from 35-100 yds were 3, 4, and 5 inch circles and the targets from 150-350 6, 8, and 9 inch circles. We were given lessons on holdovers and using our reticles and reading the wind. We were not allowed to dial for windage and elevations in this course.

At 35 and 50 yds, shots were offhand only. Sling support allowed.
At 75 and 100, unsupported shooting platforms were allowed. Standing, kneeling, sitting, prone, and whatever was allowed as long at no artificial rests (e.g. bipods, bags) were used and no part of the rifle touched the ground. Sling support allowed.
From 150-350 any platform or support was allowed.

On day four, we confirmed zero and practiced shooting from 35 through 350 using holdovers. After lunch, I think we got another shot at 350. The test was run after that. We ran two relays and that seemed to consume most of the afternoon. There was an exercise after that, then the class close-out stuff.

Skoog described the course as somewhere between the practical rifle and precision rifle courses. On one end the spectrum, the ARs work great at the closer shooting distances and not so good at the longer distances (remember, we're shooting at smaller targets.) The heavier precision rifles would have a challenging time with offhand shooting at the close distances, but would excel at the further distances. An example of an ideal rifle for the course would be a Ruger American in .308Win or 6.5 Creedmoor.

I thought the AR shooter was not at a particular disadvantage, but shooter skill and sight/optic choices were the limiting factors in our class. Some students were novices with rifles and/or had optics that are more suited for shooting CQB or at larger targets. They would have had a much better time in practical rifle. Some guys with ARs equipped with magnified optics did much better with at least one guy who did better than most.

The guy with the bolt-action rifles shot much better in terms of accuracy. Some of them appeared to have challenges with the offhand and unsupported positions. My buddy and I ran bolt guns. With a 17lb. rifle, I ran the heaviest one in the class. I received a bunch of comments about it. I had my doubts initially and found it challenging, but the rifle felt lighter to me as I got used to it and made adjustments in running it (instructor Frank gave me a super useful tip that saved me). It became normal for me.

IMO, whatever rifle you use, make sure you have quality, accurate ammo. There were students with rifles that were more than adequate for the course, but were using ammo that didn't maximize their rifles' capabilities. But, if you can shoot good with standard ammo, then you're probably better than most.

From my observations at the end, we ended up with:

5 DG
2 G
A bunch of CA

(Out of 18 points)
DG is -0 to -4 points
G is -5 to -7 points
CA is -8 and lower

Rifles of the class top achievers (bolt guns represented well):

Of the DGs:

Rem 700 LTR in .223Rem
Rem 700 PSS in .308Win
Custom 17lb Rem 700 in .308Win
Savage BA Stealth in 6.5CM
Unknown

The Gs:

Rem 700 PSS in .308Win
AR (caliber unknown)

My buddy and I both got DGs. He's new to this type of shooting and shot a new rifle he put together a few days before the class. Apparently he is a quick-study and a talented shooter. He didn't beat me. He probably will next time though.

Interestingly, we were at the far end of the line with three other four-day students by luck and we racked up most of the silver stickers.

Overall, I think it was a useful class for students who want to run a rifle for other than defensive or tactical purposes and to increase their marksmanship skills. I don't particularly care to repeat this class since I didn't find it challenging enough. If I take it again, I'd do it with a rifle that would make it challenging.
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  #12485  
Old 11-21-2020, 1:31 PM
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Congratulations, DRM6000. Frank Shinault? He was instructing Precision for my class. Skoog was also my Marksmanship rangemaster. Amazing you can shoot well standing unsupported with a 17 lb rifle!

Unfortunately with the current ammo shortage, many students will opt for cheaper ammo. I donít blame them a bit.

.
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  #12486  
Old 11-21-2020, 1:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beanz2 View Post
Congratulations, DRM6000. Frank Shinault? He was instructing Precision for my class. Skoog was also my Marksmanship rangemaster. Amazing you can shoot well standing unsupported with a 17 lb rifle!

Unfortunately with the current ammo shortage, many students will opt for cheaper ammo. I donít blame them a bit.

.
That's it! Shinault. Thanks for filling in the blank.

I didn't shoot very well standing at all. I think it was luck I got hits on the test.
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  #12487  
Old 11-21-2020, 3:06 PM
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Did Advanced Tactical Handgun on Wed-Thu. Great team, headed by TJ Wilson alongside Larry Barajas, High-Energy TJ Rotherham, Frank Molthen & Aaron Taylor. Overall, I really enjoyed it and look forward to them refining the class so there isn't as much waiting around for classmates to finish scenarios. Part of the problem is the lack of staff due to losses from Covid (fortunately not infections, just instructors not wanting to return or took other jobs).

The guys did a great job of placing you under stress during exercises...though it made me laugh as much as anything. One thing I definitely learned is never ever try to save a baby
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  #12488  
Old 11-21-2020, 6:55 PM
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Originally Posted by cjbruin View Post
Did Advanced Tactical Handgun on Wed-Thu. Great team, headed by TJ Wilson alongside Larry Barajas, High-Energy TJ Rotherham, Frank Molthen & Aaron Taylor. Overall, I really enjoyed it and look forward to them refining the class so there isn't as much waiting around for classmates to finish scenarios. Part of the problem is the lack of staff due to losses from Covid (fortunately not infections, just instructors not wanting to return or took other jobs).

The guys did a great job of placing you under stress during exercises...though it made me laugh as much as anything. One thing I definitely learned is never ever try to save a baby
That TJ Wilson is one talented young man!

Yes, once you get the baby, the correct step would be to get the hell out Dodge . But going hunting for the bad guys after you put the baby just outside the front door sure is fun

Who says the baby's twin sister was not left in the house?

.
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  #12489  
Old 11-22-2020, 7:55 AM
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Great write up and congratulations on the DG.
What was the super helpful tip, Frank gave you, that saved you?
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  #12490  
Old 11-22-2020, 9:49 AM
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Originally Posted by beanz2 View Post
That TJ Wilson is one talented young man!

Yes, once you get the baby, the correct step would be to get the hell out Dodge . But going hunting for the bad guys after you put the baby just outside the front door sure is fun

Who says the baby's twin sister was not left in the house?

.
Ha! Fortunately, I wasn't that stupid. Don't want to give the scenarios away but suffice it to say that my snafus were completely avoidable.
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  #12491  
Old 11-22-2020, 12:48 PM
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Quote:
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Great write up and congratulations on the DG.
What was the super helpful tip, Frank gave you, that saved you?
To let the air out of my lungs while shooting offhand. It made the crosshairs move a whole lot less. There seemed to be momentary pauses in movement when I could get a press in. Before that, I think all my hits were everywhere but in the circle. I didn't think I had a chance.
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  #12492  
Old 11-23-2020, 5:52 PM
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Good write-up for Rifle Marksmanship DRM!

What worked for me in that course was the use of a sling, good quality ammo, and using a bag and bipod combo for 150+ yards. Scoped out AR's are more than capable for that course IF the wind is calm.
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  #12493  
Old 11-28-2020, 9:12 PM
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Bumped into a father-daughter pair traveling via plane from Missouri to FS; daughter was wearing her FS hat. Struck up a friendly conversation. Always nice to meet a fellow FS'er. Maybe I should wear my FS hat out in public?

Last edited by Mustard; 11-28-2020 at 9:14 PM..
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  #12494  
Old 12-01-2020, 12:33 PM
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Looking for a diamond membership, please DM me if you have one available.
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