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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #41  
Old 10-06-2021, 5:35 AM
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i don't understand any of this. what is other?
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  #42  
Old 10-06-2021, 8:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 45-ACP View Post
i don't understand any of this. what is other?
If you don't understand any of this, it likely doesn't apply to you. So don't worry!
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  #43  
Old 10-06-2021, 12:10 PM
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Everyone seems to be dodging my comment, so Ill post again.

What about a ar15 lower that was dros'd as an exempt pistol lower (i.e. from a peace officer)? Could that be registered as an other when barrel is 16 inches + no stock?

What about something like Frankling Armorys CA7, a rostered approved handgun, can that be assembled with a semi-auto 16 inch upper and registered as an other?
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  #44  
Old 10-06-2021, 12:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dumamilk View Post
Everyone seems to be dodging my comment, so Ill post again.

What about a ar15 lower that was dros'd as an exempt pistol lower (i.e. from a peace officer)? Could that be registered as an other when barrel is 16 inches + no stock?

What about something like Frankling Armorys CA7, a rostered approved handgun, can that be assembled with a semi-auto 16 inch upper and registered as an other?
If it was built as such prior to Sept. 2020, I believe so. That is the route I took/am taking.

IANAL
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  #45  
Old 10-06-2021, 2:31 PM
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How will this affect buying an AK or AR from Turners or Atlantic arms or whomever?

"A pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon"

no more fin grips?

"The capacity to accept a detachable magazine at some location outside of the pistol grip."

So a fixed comp mag would still work? Unless I'm reading it incorrectly a fixed comp mag would void almost everything on that list,
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  #46  
Old 10-06-2021, 3:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by titus75 View Post
So how would you configure an AK to comply with this?

"A pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon"

no more fin grips?

"The capacity to accept a detachable magazine at some location outside of the pistol grip."

So a fixed comp mag would still work? Unless I'm reading it incorrectly a fixed comp mag would void almost everything on that list,
In my opinion, you must have had an AK pistol, replaced the barrel with a barrel 16" or more in length, and modified it so that it has an overall length of 26" or more, all before 09/2020.

If none of this occurred prior to 09/2020, you cannot configure an AK to comply with this and this registration period does not apply to you.
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  #47  
Old 10-06-2021, 5:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 45-ACP View Post
i don't understand any of this. what is other?
A firearm which is neither a pistol, a rifle or a shotgun.
You have to understand the legal definitions of all 3 of those first.
"other" is all the guns that don't fit into one of the 3 standard descriptions.
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  #48  
Old 10-06-2021, 5:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dumamilk View Post
Everyone seems to be dodging my comment, so Ill post again.

What about a ar15 lower that was dros'd as an exempt pistol lower (i.e. from a peace officer)?
Could that be registered as an other when barrel is 16 inches + no stock?

What about something like Frankling Armorys CA7, a rostered approved handgun, can that be assembled with a semi-auto 16 inch upper and registered as an other?
If it was DROS'ed as a pistol, rifle or shotgun, it can not become an "other" for purposes of assault weapon registration.
Ca DOJ specifies that the firearm must NEVER have been a pistol, rifle or shotgun.
If the receiver transferred as a pistol, the state says it's a pistol and the pistol AW laws all apply to it.

To be able to build an "other" AW from a stripped receiver, you need to have DROS'ed it before 2014 and it needed to transfer as a "long gun, other" and it needs to NEVER have been assembled as a pistol, rifle or shotgun.
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  #49  
Old 10-06-2021, 5:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seaweedsoyboy View Post
If it was built as such prior to Sept. 2020, I believe so. That is the route I took/am taking.

IANAL
Going from a handgun to an "other" for AW registration is going to be problematic unless you got the handgun before 1925 when CA started registering handguns.
Any handgun manufactured after 1991 and legally owned by a CA resident would be registered to the owner as a handgun in the state's records when the legal transfer occurred.

CA state law is very specific that the firearm must never have been a handgun, rifle or shotgun in order to be registered as an assault weapon "other".

So for you to register a handgun as an "other", you would have to be breaking some other laws on how you acquired the receiver unless it's something you legally private party transferred before 1991 or you are breaking the registration laws on what can be registered.
Even those pre-1991 handguns have previously BEEN a handgun and would not be eligible for registration.
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  #50  
Old 10-07-2021, 12:53 PM
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I would like confirmation that this does not apply to AW’s registered in 1999.
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  #51  
Old 10-07-2021, 12:58 PM
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Sometimes you admire the strategy of your enemy -- even though it hurts. That doesn't mean you love your enemy.
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  #52  
Old 10-07-2021, 1:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HavaJava View Post
I would like confirmation that this does not apply to AW’s registered in 1999.
Quote:
california code of regulations title 11 division 5 chapter 39 Section 5487

(b)The department will not register a firearm as an other category assault weapon, if the firearm was required to have been registered under any other prior assault weapon registration period.
https://www.oag.ca.gov/system/files/...opted-regs.pdf
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  #53  
Old 10-07-2021, 2:05 PM
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Applies to raptor handled shotguns I understand.
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  #54  
Old 10-07-2021, 2:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirtlaw View Post
Applies to raptor handled shotguns I understand.
Post a picture of what you are talking about.
Is it a semi-auto detachable magazine fed shotgun that was sold without a stock?

Quote:
(9) A semiautomatic centerfire firearm that is not a rifle, pistol, or shotgun, that does not have a fixed magazine, but that has any one of the following:

(A) A pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon.

(B) A thumbhole stock.

(C) A folding or telescoping stock.

(D) A grenade launcher or flare launcher.

(E) A flash suppressor.

(F) A forward pistol grip.

(G) A threaded barrel, capable of accepting a flash suppressor, forward handgrip, or silencer.

(H) A second handgrip.

(I) A shroud that is attached to, or partially or completely encircles, the barrel that allows the bearer to fire the weapon without burning the bearer’s hand, except a slide that encloses the barrel.

(J) The capacity to accept a detachable magazine at some location outside of the pistol grip.

(10) A semiautomatic centerfire firearm that is not a rifle, pistol, or shotgun, that has a fixed magazine with the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds.

(11) A semiautomatic centerfire firearm that is not a rifle, pistol, or shotgun, that has an overall length of less than 30 inches.

Last edited by ar15barrels; 10-07-2021 at 2:22 PM..
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  #55  
Old 10-07-2021, 2:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ar15barrels View Post
Post a picture of what you are talking about.
Is it a semi-auto magazine fed shotgun that was sold without a stock?

No. I'm talking about shotguns that either have a handgrip instead of a stock or what I believe is called a raptor handle. I believe both Remington and Mossberg sold them.
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  #56  
Old 10-07-2021, 2:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirtlaw View Post
No. I'm talking about shotguns that either have a handgrip instead of a stock or what I believe is called a raptor handle. I believe both Remington and Mossberg sold them.
If they are not semi-auto, they can't be assault weapons subject to this AW registry opening.

Quote:
(9) A semiautomatic centerfire firearm that is not a rifle, pistol, or shotgun, that does not have a fixed magazine,

(10) A semiautomatic centerfire firearm that is not a rifle, pistol, or shotgun, that has a fixed magazine with the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds.

(11) A semiautomatic centerfire firearm that is not a rifle, pistol, or shotgun, that has an overall length of less than 30 inches.
So all the mossberg 500 cruisers and remington 870 shockwave models do not fall into this AW registry opening.

If there was a semi-auto pistol gripped shotgun that either held more than 10 shells or accepted a detachable magazine, THAT would fall into the scope of this AW registry opening.

Last edited by ar15barrels; 10-07-2021 at 2:30 PM..
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  #57  
Old 10-07-2021, 2:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ar15barrels View Post
If they are not semi-auto, they can't be assault weapons subject to this AW registry opening.

So all the mossberg 500 cruisers and remington 870 shockwave models do not fall into this AW registry opening.

If there was a semi-auto pistol gripped shotgun that either held more than 10 shells or accepted a detachable magazine, THAT would fall into the scope of this AW registry opening.

Now I really am confused! I think the CRPA download included a picture of the pistol / non-stock styled shotguns. But you are right they are not semi-auto.
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  #58  
Old 10-07-2021, 2:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirtlaw View Post
Now I really am confused! I think the CRPA download included a picture of the pistol / non-stock styled shotguns.
But you are right they are not semi-auto.
A semi-auto shotgun with a pistol grip (but no stock) that has a fixed magazine that holds less than 10 rounds is not eligible for registration unless it's under 30" overall length.
A semi-auto shotgun with a pistol grip (but no stock) that accepts a detachable magazine is eligible for registration.

Last edited by ar15barrels; 10-07-2021 at 3:31 PM..
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  #59  
Old 10-08-2021, 5:02 AM
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So where does it say that the Other can never start as a pistol?
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  #60  
Old 10-08-2021, 7:08 AM
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Is the following flowchart correct? I'm sure someone can do better.



1. Is it a centerfire firearm? Yes = continue No = not an "other"
2. Is it a semi-auto firearm? Yes = continue No = not an "other"
3. Is it a shotgun? Yes = not an "other" No = continue
> (Is it a smoothbore firearm intended to be fired from the shoulder?)
4. Is it a rifle? Yes = not an "other" No = continue
> (Is it a rifled firearm intended to be fired from the shoulder)
5. Is it a pistol? Yes = not an "other" No = continue
> (Does it fire a projectile and have a barrel less than 16 inches in length?)
6. Does it have any of the following? Yes = "other" No = continue
a. A pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon.
b. A thumbhole stock.
c. A folding or telescoping stock.
d. A grenade or flare launcher.
e. A threaded barrel, capable of accepting a flash suppressor, forward handgrip, or silencer.
f. A second handgrip.
g. A shroud that is attached to, or partially or completely encircles, the barrel and which allows the bearer to fire the weapon without burning the bearer's hand. A slide that encloses the barrel is excluded from the foregong characteristic.
h. The capacity to accept a detachable magazine at some location outside of the pistol grip.
7. Does it have a fixed magazine that has the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds? If Yes = "other" If No = continue.
8. Does it have an overall length of less than 30 inches? If Yes = "other" If No = not an "other"
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  #61  
Old 10-08-2021, 7:36 AM
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This new law is a useful as a three dollar bill. If it only effects previous 2014 lowers, how come that isn't written in the law? The way I read it, any stripper lower receiver should be DROS'd as "other" from Oct 1, 2021 forward? ANyone have anything written from CA DOJ explaining it? Thank you
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  #62  
Old 10-08-2021, 8:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sirsloth View Post
So where does it say that the Other can never start as a pistol?
In 5487.

If your reciever is currently in the state's registry as a pistol, it won't make it past 5487 (e).
Putting a longer barrel on your pistol does not keep it from still being a pistol in CA.
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  #63  
Old 10-08-2021, 8:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snipes2323 View Post
If it only effects previous 2014 lowers, how come that isn't written in the law?
The way I read it, any stripper lower receiver should be DROS'd as "other" from Oct 1, 2021 forward?
ANyone have anything written from CA DOJ explaining it?
There is no option in DES to DROS as "other" since 2014 when all firearms passing through DROS starting being registered.
Therefore, ALL firearms DROSed in 2014 and beyond are handguns, rifles or shotguns.

Last edited by ar15barrels; 10-08-2021 at 8:24 AM..
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  #64  
Old 10-08-2021, 8:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ar15barrels View Post
In 5487.

If your reciever is currently in the state's registry as a pistol, it won't make it past 5487 (e).
Putting a longer barrel on your pistol does not keep it from still being a pistol in CA.
Thanks. I can see how that can be interpreted as such. DOJ is not registering pistols and since there is a record of it being a pistol, it's not eligible. I can follow that train of thinking.

However, was there anything on the books before August 31, 2020 that disallowed a person from turning a pistol into an Other?

If not, why should that person be disallowed from registering (honest question and somewhat rhetorical)?

Couldn't 5487(e) be interpreted that they aren't allowing weapons that are currently configured as pistols to be registered (not that they couldn't have ever been a pistol)?
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  #65  
Old 10-08-2021, 9:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sirsloth View Post
Thanks. I can see how that can be interpreted as such. DOJ is not registering pistols and since there is a record of it being a pistol, it's not eligible. I can follow that train of thinking.

However, was there anything on the books before August 31, 2020 that disallowed a person from turning a pistol into an Other?

If not, why should that person be disallowed from registering (honest question and somewhat rhetorical)?

Couldn't 5487(e) be interpreted that they aren't allowing weapons that are currently configured as pistols to be registered (not that they couldn't have ever been a pistol)?
Try it out and see if they come to your door.
Worst thing that can happen is you lose it.

Don't give them evidence of an illegally configured firearm as that's what gets them to come to your door.
Like if your registered pistol was supposed to be maglocked to be legal on August 31st, it would be illegal to remove the maglock to try to call it an "other" because CA does not have a maximum barrel length limit for pistols.
They will not accept a registration for a maglocked firearm.
If your "pistol" didn't have a fixed magazine, it was supposed to have been registered in 2000 or it would have been illegal after that so it's not registered and therefore ineligible for registration under 5487.
Also, don't make an illegal AOW by adding a forward grip to a pistol.
There's lots of pitfalls that can be tough to avoid without creating evidence of another crime depending on what you are trying to do.

Last edited by ar15barrels; 10-08-2021 at 9:56 AM..
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  #66  
Old 10-08-2021, 10:27 AM
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Originally Posted by ar15barrels View Post
Try it out and see if they come to your door.
Worst thing that can happen is you lose it.
No thanks, the point of having these thought experiments is so that people don't have to "try it out and see."

Quote:
Originally Posted by ar15barrels View Post
Don't give them evidence of an illegally configured firearm as that's what gets them to come to your door.
Like if your registered pistol was supposed to be maglocked to be legal on August 31st, it would be illegal to remove the maglock to try to call it an "other" because CA does not have a maximum barrel length limit for pistols.
They will not accept a registration for a maglocked firearm.
Yes they will. 5486(c) A fixed mag Other with the the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ar15barrels View Post
If your "pistol" didn't have a fixed magazine, it was supposed to have been registered in 2000 or it would have been illegal after that so it's not registered and therefore ineligible for registration under 5487.
Also, don't make an illegal AOW by adding a forward grip to a pistol.
There's lots of pitfalls that can be tough to avoid without creating evidence of another crime depending on what you are trying to do.
Technically, you wouldn't be removing the maglock from the "pistol" it would be from the maglocked Other.

Registered AR Pistol w/ maglock -> Other w/ maglock -> Other w/o maglock
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  #67  
Old 10-08-2021, 12:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sirsloth View Post
Yes they will. 5486(c) A fixed mag Other with the the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds.
Your fixed mag pistol would be illegal if it holds more than 10 rounds though.
So there's that whole self-incrimination problem again when the gun is already registered as a pistol.

Because if they think it's a pistol because it transferred to you as a pistol AND you give them a statement that it holds more than 10 rounds and has a fixed mag, now they have you on manufacturing/possession of an unregistered 2017 assault weapon.

So the problem to solve is how to not break some old laws with your pistol while complying
with the new law.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sirsloth View Post
Technically, you wouldn't be removing the maglock from the "pistol" it would be from the maglocked Other.

Registered AR Pistol w/ maglock -> Other w/ maglock -> Other w/o maglock
Make sure to explain that to the nice men at your door because their records state that your pistol is still a pistol.

Change your pistol in the registry to a "long gun, other" before you make an "other" with it.

Last edited by ar15barrels; 10-08-2021 at 1:02 PM..
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  #68  
Old 10-08-2021, 5:24 PM
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And some people on this forum continue to bash others for moving away from California. These INSANE laws regarding what a citizen can own/not own/register/not register, etc., etc., are among the silliest I’ve ever heard of.
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Old 10-09-2021, 7:14 AM
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OK, Opinions please on the followingÂ…need to register, yes or no?
PPSH-41 - I say yes.
Vickers, Maxim 1910 - I say yes.
1919a4 - I say yes.
Bren gun-?
MG-34 - ?
MG-42 - ?
DP - 28 - ?
All of my questions marks are weapons with shoulder stocks. Where I get sideways is the state definition of the “rifle” and the “….intended to be fired from the shoulder…” part. It does not say it has to fired from the shoulder while standing up; they were designed and manufactured with a butt stock, so there was some design intent that it be shouldered when fired. But per that definition of “rifle” the mere presence of a butt stock does not make a rifle. I know I am over-thinking this and am just stuck in a loop. Any informed opinions would be appreciated.
I am just a conservative guy that wants to enjoy my stuff. I obey the law. For the record, all of these are semi-auto, all have 10 round belts or 10 round magazines. All were transacted through, or built by, an FFL. I want to comply with all the laws I have to, but do not want to “over comply” when I do not have to.
Thanks.

Last edited by RDnNorcal; 10-09-2021 at 7:17 AM..
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  #70  
Old 10-09-2021, 12:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RDnNorcal View Post
All of my questions marks are weapons with shoulder stocks.
Where I get sideways is the state definition of the “rifle” and the “….intended to be fired from the shoulder…” part.
If it has a rifled barrel and a stock, CA and the feds say it's a rifle.
Therefore, CA will not register it as an AW during this "other" registry opening because it's a rifle.

The stock is the defining "intended to be fired from the shoulder" feature even though ANY firearm with a stock can also be fired different ways too.
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Old 10-09-2021, 1:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RDnNorcal View Post
OK, Opinions please on the followingÂ…need to register, yes or no?
PPSH-41 - I say yes.
Vickers, Maxim 1910 - I say yes.
1919a4 - I say yes.
Bren gun-?
MG-34 - ?
MG-42 - ?
DP - 28 - ?
All of my questions marks are weapons with shoulder stocks. Where I get sideways is the state definition of the “rifle” and the “….intended to be fired from the shoulder…” part. It does not say it has to fired from the shoulder while standing up; they were designed and manufactured with a butt stock, so there was some design intent that it be shouldered when fired. But per that definition of “rifle” the mere presence of a butt stock does not make a rifle. I know I am over-thinking this and am just stuck in a loop. Any informed opinions would be appreciated.
I am just a conservative guy that wants to enjoy my stuff. I obey the law. For the record, all of these are semi-auto, all have 10 round belts or 10 round magazines. All were transacted through, or built by, an FFL. I want to comply with all the laws I have to, but do not want to “over comply” when I do not have to.
Thanks.

PPSH-41? I have a semi-auto PPSH-41 I will not be registering as that’s a featureless rifle.
My Maxim, 1919A4, & SG43 I will be registering I guess.


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  #72  
Old 10-09-2021, 1:53 PM
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Other, it, something. This is craziness! Sorry fellow CG folk if I am upset. Insanity is disturbing.
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  #73  
Old 10-09-2021, 4:08 PM
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Why is it we register firearms but not criminals and illegals?????????????
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  #74  
Old 10-10-2021, 2:57 PM
Nimbalo Nimbalo is offline
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So, I kinda saw this coming and took a ton of pictures of my pistol drossed lower when I was out of state in an "other" configuration to make sure I would have all my bases covered before the initial cutoff last September.

I have since left that gun disassembled.

Does this matter at all if someone shows up at my door? I don't recall reading anything that required the "other" to exist in CA when assembled or the registration form sent in.

Last edited by Nimbalo; 10-10-2021 at 3:01 PM..
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  #75  
Old 10-11-2021, 9:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Bt Doctur View Post
Why is it we register firearms but not criminals and illegals?????????????
Because criminals don't follow laws.
The very act of committing crimes is what makes a person a criminal.
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  #76  
Old 10-11-2021, 9:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Nimbalo View Post
So, I kinda saw this coming and took a ton of pictures of my pistol drossed lower when I was out of state in an "other" configuration to make sure I would have all my bases covered before the initial cutoff last September.

I have since left that gun disassembled.

Does this matter at all if someone shows up at my door? I don't recall reading anything that required the "other" to exist in CA when assembled or the registration form sent in.
Your pistol DROSed lower is a pistol.
As long as it's compliant with the AW laws relating to pistols, you are good.
CA state won't be accepting registrations for firearms that are already in the system as a pistol, rifle or shotgun so you need not apply for registration.
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  #77  
Old 10-11-2021, 10:42 AM
seaweedsoyboy seaweedsoyboy is online now
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Originally Posted by ar15barrels View Post
Your pistol DROSed lower is a pistol.
As long as it's compliant with the AW laws relating to pistols, you are good.
CA state won't be accepting registrations for firearms that are already in the system as a pistol, rifle or shotgun so you need not apply for registration.
Why is your position that “CA state won't be accepting registrations for firearms that are already in the system as a pistol, rifle or shotgun,” when the only source of info re weapons they will not accept registration for related to rifle, pistol, shotgun classifications states that

(e) The Department will not register rifles, pistols, shotguns, or rifle/shotgun combinations as other category assault weapons?

In other words, what makes you think that this is referring to the DROS designation associated with the firearm and not simply the configuration the weapon is in?
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  #78  
Old 10-11-2021, 1:06 PM
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Originally Posted by seaweedsoyboy View Post
Why is your position that “CA state won't be accepting registrations for firearms that are already in the system as a pistol, rifle or shotgun,” when the only source of info re weapons they will not accept registration for related to rifle, pistol, shotgun classifications states that

(e) The Department will not register rifles, pistols, shotguns, or rifle/shotgun combinations as other category assault weapons?

In other words, what makes you think that this is referring to the DROS designation associated with the firearm and not simply the configuration the weapon is in?
I suspect there are a lot of things like 1919a4 beltfeds that got DROSed as a rifle since 2014. There was no Other category, and I know these were transferred in California, so you have something DROSed as a rifle that was never really a rifle that meets the definition of an Other AW. At least in this case you can convert to a 1919a6, but then you have to wonder for a 1919a4 that was purchased prior to 2014 that was DROSed as an Other firearm, not a rifle, and if the DOJ has copied FFL records indicating that it is an Other firearm.

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  #79  
Old 10-11-2021, 1:13 PM
seaweedsoyboy seaweedsoyboy is online now
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Originally Posted by OlderThanDirt View Post
I suspect there are a lot of things like 1919a4 beltfeds that got DROSed as a rifle since 2014. There was no Other category, and I know these were transferred in California, so you have something DROSed as a rifle that was never really a rifle that meets the definition of an Other AW. At least in this case you can convert to a 1919a6, but then you have to wonder for a 1919a4 that was purchased prior to 2014 that was DROSed as an Other firearm, not a rifle, and if the DOJ has copied FFL records indicating that it is an Other firearm.

Exactly. If it were the case that other registration was dependent on DROS categorization, it would not be possible to register anything aside from “others” build from stripped lowers purchased prior to 2014. Which makes no sense.
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Old 10-11-2021, 3:56 PM
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Originally Posted by seaweedsoyboy View Post
Why is your position that “CA state won't be accepting registrations for firearms that are already in the system as a pistol, rifle or shotgun,” when the only source of info re weapons they will not accept registration for related to rifle, pistol, shotgun classifications states that

(e) The Department will not register rifles, pistols, shotguns, or rifle/shotgun combinations as other category assault weapons?

In other words, what makes you think that this is referring to the DROS designation associated with the firearm and not simply the configuration the weapon is in?
The history of DOJ applying laws based on how a firearm is DROSed regardless of the actual configuration unless the configuration is also illegal in which case they will also use that to their advantage.
They are of the "have your cake and eat it too" persuasion in enforcement.
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