Calguns.net  

Home My iTrader Join the NRA Donate to CGSSA Sponsors CGN Google Search
CA Semiauto Ban(AW)ID Flowchart CA Handgun Ban ID Flowchart CA Shotgun Ban ID Flowchart
Go Back   Calguns.net > POLITICS, LITIGATION AND ACTIVISM > How CA Laws Apply to/Affect Me
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 02-10-2019, 10:20 PM
Califpatriot Califpatriot is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Sf bay area
Posts: 1,752
iTrader: 22 / 100%
Default Mi General Abogado Becerra on Self-Made Pistols

https://oag.ca.gov/system/files/atta...umer-alert.pdf

Aces Pawn posted this, I thought it deserved it's own thread.

Quote:
A self-manufactured
semiautomatic handgun, even if temporarily altered for single-shot firing, must include safety and
security features, including:
 The firearm must incorporate a manually-operated safety device.
 The firearm must meet California’s drop safety requirements.
 The firearm must be able to imprint certain identifying information on two locations on each
cartridge case when fired.
Some exceptions apply to these rules. For full details and definitions of unsafe handguns and
required features under California law, see Penal Code Sections 31900-32100.

...

This alert is for informational purposes only and should not be construed as legal advice
or as policy of the State of California. If you want advice on a particular case, you should
consult an attorney or other expert.
A few thoughts:

1. I think Calguns played itself. I've never heard of this theory that you can't add a gas tube to a legal, roster-exempt pistol until a few people started posting it on Calguns. There's no record of a prosecutor or a DOJ official or a DOJ publication or a DOJ regulation or a legislative official talking about it until the theory started being bandied about on Calguns by some of our knowledgeable members. I can't prove that this is where DOJ got it from, but I sure get the feeling that it is.

2. Note the wording--"temporarily altered for single-shot firing." Well, that's plainly true. The plain language of the unsafe manufacturing law --pc 32100(b)--after the ban of SSE1 says you can't convert a semi-auto weapon into a single-shot and thus make it roster-exempt. But note that DOJ does not address the situation of a firearm that has been made (not altered) as single-shot originally and then altered for semi-automatic firing. It doesn't say that because it'd be opening a can of worms and because the statutory for this assertion doesn't exist.

3. Additionally, California law generally prohibits the manufacture of unsafe handguns. Remember, possession of a self-made semi-auto pistol that has been registered in AFS (either as volreg, BBRAW, or USNA process) is not illegal. Nor does this memorandum claim that it is.

4. The timing of this, together with the two confiscations that have been credibly reported of self-manufactured AR pistols, shows that they have a hard-on for this. But so far, the two confiscations have both come after submission of "incriminating" photos have been submitted to DOJ; other raids of law-abiding citizens have all been after some form of registration (largely BBRAW). There's no evidence they are going to ranges and doing compliance checks or anything like that.
__________________
In case it wasn't obvious, nothing I write here should be interpreted as legal advice.

Do you have a Kel-Tec P-11? Let me know as I may be interested in buying or trading for it.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 02-11-2019, 12:06 AM
justmedave justmedave is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 65
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Default

My thoughts.
The first line

"A self-manufactured
semiautomatic handgun, even if temporarily altered for single-shot firing"

I'm not manufacturing semiautomatic handguns. I'm building "dimensionally compliant single shot bolt action handguns" it is not temporarily altered for single shot. It was born single shot then converted to semi. So **** the doj

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 02-11-2019, 5:26 AM
jeremiah12 jeremiah12 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,573
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by justmedave View Post
My thoughts.
The first line

"A self-manufactured
semiautomatic handgun, even if temporarily altered for single-shot firing"

I'm not manufacturing semiautomatic handguns. I'm building "dimensionally compliant single shot bolt action handguns" it is not temporarily altered for single shot. It was born single shot then converted to semi. So **** the doj

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
And if it is later found in CA in a semiautomatic configuration that F*** the DOJ might cost you years to fight as well as a significant amount of money. If you lose, you will lose your freedom for a few years and your gun rights.

Are you willing to be the test case?
__________________
Anyone can look around and see the damage to the state and country inflicted by bad politicians.

A vote is clearly much more dangerous than a gun.

Why advocate restrictions on one right (voting) without comparable restrictions on another (self defense) (or, why not say 'Be a U.S. citizen' as the requirement for CCW)?

--Librarian
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 02-11-2019, 7:39 AM
Califpatriot Califpatriot is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Sf bay area
Posts: 1,752
iTrader: 22 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeremiah12 View Post
And if it is later found in CA in a semiautomatic configuration that F*** the DOJ might cost you years to fight as well as a significant amount of money. If you lose, you will lose your freedom for a few years and your gun rights.

Are you willing to be the test case?
Stop spreading FUD. Even if DOJ says converting a single shot to semi auto is a crime (which is avoids saying here) it's a non prohibiting misdemeanor with a one year statute of limitations and virtually impossible to prosecute absent a confession. That's why the confiscations we saw didn't have any arrests.

This cliched attitude above does the DOJ's job for it and scares people from exercising their second amendment rights.
__________________
In case it wasn't obvious, nothing I write here should be interpreted as legal advice.

Do you have a Kel-Tec P-11? Let me know as I may be interested in buying or trading for it.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 02-11-2019, 9:50 AM
mshill's Avatar
mshill mshill is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 3,006
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Califpatriot View Post
Stop spreading FUD. Even if DOJ says converting a single shot to semi auto is a crime (which is avoids saying here) it's a non prohibiting misdemeanor with a one year statute of limitations and virtually impossible to prosecute absent a confession. That's why the confiscations we saw didn't have any arrests.

This cliched attitude above does the DOJ's job for it and scares people from exercising their second amendment rights.
Bingo. Until they make possession the crime (a bridge too far?) all they can do is confiscate and force you to prove it is not illegal.
__________________
Quote:
The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 02-11-2019, 7:54 PM
DisgruntledReaper's Avatar
DisgruntledReaper DisgruntledReaper is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Orange County
Posts: 1,733
iTrader: 37 / 100%
Default

Personally i feel that calguns has become a great resource for the worthless pos in the bay area,ballsacramento,la,etc for coming up with what to ban next,how to word it,seal up any workarounds,etc..why?? Because everyond posts ideas on how to circumvent said laws ... prime example of the old 'loose lips sink ships' line from ww2.
This place has spoon fed the enemy plenty of info... this single shot pistol fiasco is prime example..
__________________
'There is no theory of evolution, just a list of creatures Chuck Norris allows to live.'

'I have so many good karma points I am approaching Saint Hood'

"They tell you of a laundry detergent that takes out bloodstains- I'm thinking that if you have clothes covered in bloodstains-maybe laundry isn't your biggest problem"

[SIGPIC]http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/signaturepics/sigpic27069_2.gif[/SIGPIC]
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 02-11-2019, 9:49 PM
jeremiah12 jeremiah12 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,573
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Califpatriot View Post
Stop spreading FUD. Even if DOJ says converting a single shot to semi auto is a crime (which is avoids saying here) it's a non prohibiting misdemeanor with a one year statute of limitations and virtually impossible to prosecute absent a confession. That's why the confiscations we saw didn't have any arrests.

This cliched attitude above does the DOJ's job for it and scares people from exercising their second amendment rights.
I accept I overstated the penalty for converting a single shot to semiautomatic because I do not remember everything. The issue is with the new interpretation of manufacturing that has some backing from a Circuit Court decision, a legal argument can be made that first building a single shot then at some later time changing it to a semiautomatic is manufacturing a semiautomatic handgun.

If you read the legislative analysis for the the reasoning behind the law for SSE 2.0 it states the new law was to stop buying off-roster pistols under SSE and then changing them back to semiautomatic as a work around to the roster. The intent was to only allow single shot hand guns that stayed single shot.

Get it into court and their will be a good chance a judge will accept it. The reality is we only have the 2A rights the courts allow us to have. That is how our system works. Poke the bear on something that has not been settled by the courts and you will be the test case that gets to spend your time and money and risk your future.

People should be fully aware of all the risks before they do something. I strongly suggest talking to a firearms attorney, the money you pay for the consult is well worth the advice you get. You will find it is not as cut and dry as you make it out to be.

Yes, right now, all we know about is a few cases of confiscation. That is a safe thing for the DOJ to do. It forces the person who had the gun confiscated to prove the gun was legally built and and in a legal configuration. This is not worth the cost of the price of the firearm that was lost.

OTOH, the DOJ had a search warrant and searched the home where the homebuilt gun was stored. That gives them an opportunity to find other gun related legal issues. What if they find some MJ with the guns? My local PD arrests for that, a prohibited person with a gun. The police chief has made it clear that he will use every tool he can to get guns off the street. He kicks those to the local FBI liaison and they get a plea deal, life time gun ban, and 5 years probation. It is part of our gang task force. Do take the deal, you get sent to Federal Court in Sacramento and face 5 years in Federal prison and you still get a lifetime gun ban.

I personally do not want to be seen with anything in public that might be a potential legal problem. My job requires a state issued credential and even if I were to have something confiscated, it would be reported to the issuing agency and my credential would be suspended pending an investigation. I would be out of work for 6 months to a year and I would not get back pay if nothing came of it. Been there before and I will not do that again. I also refuse to put my retirement on the line.

I have taken all of my problematic toys out of state. I will be moving soon enough to a free state. I do operate to do my best to keep the government out of my home and out of my life.

With that said, we all know the DOJ and ATF is watching here. So those who say I will do it anyway and F*** the DOJ or F*** the ATF are just putting a target on themselves.

If I were going to build a handgun from an 80% receiver, I definitely would never advertise it on social media. I also would not shoot it anywhere where someone might take an interest in it.
__________________
Anyone can look around and see the damage to the state and country inflicted by bad politicians.

A vote is clearly much more dangerous than a gun.

Why advocate restrictions on one right (voting) without comparable restrictions on another (self defense) (or, why not say 'Be a U.S. citizen' as the requirement for CCW)?

--Librarian
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 02-11-2019, 10:18 PM
Califpatriot Califpatriot is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Sf bay area
Posts: 1,752
iTrader: 22 / 100%
Default

Just to make it clear: nothing you said changes the fact that manufacturing a semi-auto pistol is, at worst, a non-prohibiting misdemeanor that is very difficult to prove.

Everything else is literally FUD--you're just sowing fear, uncertainty, and doubt.

"what if you have marijuana?" well, don't have marijuana and guns in the home. cripes.
__________________
In case it wasn't obvious, nothing I write here should be interpreted as legal advice.

Do you have a Kel-Tec P-11? Let me know as I may be interested in buying or trading for it.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 02-12-2019, 10:48 PM
bubbapug1's Avatar
bubbapug1 bubbapug1 is offline
Ball Pimp 4 Border Collie
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: South South OC
Posts: 7,395
iTrader: 285 / 100%
Default

Jerry brown on guns and pot

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=UWCK4R1iZSo
__________________
I love America for the rights and freedoms we used to have.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 2:07 AM.




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Proudly hosted by GeoVario the Premier 2A host.
Calguns.net, the 'Calguns' name and all associated variants and logos are ® Trademark and © Copyright 2002-2018, Calguns.net an Incorporated Company All Rights Reserved.
Calguns.net and The Calguns Foundation have no affiliation and are in no way related to each other.
All opinions, statements and remarks made by Calguns.net on this web site and elsewhere are solely attributable to Calguns.net.