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  #41  
Old 05-10-2019, 7:13 PM
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Originally Posted by CaliTrav View Post
So the FFL I went to was giving me a bunch of BS. Figures they didn't even mention it until I went to pick it up.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk
Same here, not a word till I went to pick it up.


It was Ammo brothers.

The real issue is that it's a mothers-day gift for my wife.
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  #42  
Old 05-10-2019, 11:13 PM
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If BATF and DOJ already agree that "current" CDL is GTG for ID.

A FFL/CFDL...... "REQUIRING" that additional proof be presented before they will fulfill their legal contractual obligation to deliver your property.

That is an arbitrary decision on the part of the dealer. Not supported by any state or federal statute. Making it an "extra legal" requirement. Which also leaves the dealer that made the extra legal arbitrary decision to deny you your lawful property.

Ripe for a spanking in civil court for breach of contract.
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  #43  
Old 05-11-2019, 9:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Featureless View Post
OK I just spoke with one of the local FFLs who told me (last November, when I bought a Glock in his store that Real ID will be required 7/1/19) that there has been an extension from CA DOJ and Real ID is not necessary to purchase a firearm at the present time as long as the buyer can prove citizenship AND residence with a minimum of 2 documents. (Which was the issue with fed before DMV began requiring 2 docs proving residency after January 22, 2019)

In other words, if you don't have the Real ID you'll need the same documents required for Real ID in order to purchase a firearm.

Now that's changed from what he told me in November, so if anybody wants to challenge that have at it.
You are still incorrect. The DOJ sent out a release to all FFLs regarding this issue. The release states that the FFL MAY CHOOSE to collect the aforementioned proof of legal US residency upon purchase of a firearm with a FLA Driver's License, but it is not required. It is up to the FFLs discretion to collect the additional documents or not.

It is ultimately CADOJ's responsibility to determine if a prospective purchaser is a legal resident or not based on the information provided on DROS and their own databases. It is not the responsibility or legal requirement of the FFL to determine legal residency prior to DROS.

I am the manager of an LGS and I have spoke to DOJ BOF personally regarding this.
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  #44  
Old 05-11-2019, 1:49 PM
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Originally Posted by omgwtfbbq View Post
You are still incorrect. The DOJ sent out a release to all FFLs regarding this issue. The release states that the FFL MAY CHOOSE to collect the aforementioned proof of legal US residency upon purchase of a firearm with a FLA Driver's License, but it is not required. It is up to the FFLs discretion to collect the additional documents or not.

It is ultimately CADOJ's responsibility to determine if a prospective purchaser is a legal resident or not based on the information provided on DROS and their own databases. It is not the responsibility or legal requirement of the FFL to determine legal residency prior to DROS.

I am the manager of an LGS and I have spoke to DOJ BOF personally regarding this.

^^^^ABSO-FREAK'N-LUTELY^^^^
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  #45  
Old 05-11-2019, 4:26 PM
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For what it’s worth I just bought some powder today at my ffl , she (the owner) assured me that real id is not required to buy a firearm and will not be required according to a letter they recieved from atf! Good cause I need another one soon.

Last edited by riflehunter; 05-11-2019 at 4:29 PM..
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  #46  
Old 06-07-2019, 1:43 PM
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I have one of the Real ID licenses for which the DMV required only one proof of residency in violation of U.S. DHS regulations.

And today, I received a letter from the DMV which asks me to check a box signifying that my address is still the same, to sign and date the letter, and return it in an enclosed postage paid envelope.

Supposedly that will fix it, we shall see.
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  #47  
Old 06-07-2019, 3:45 PM
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Originally Posted by mrdd View Post
I have one of the Real ID licenses for which the DMV required only one proof of residency in violation of U.S. DHS regulations.



And today, I received a letter from the DMV which asks me to check a box signifying that my address is still the same, to sign and date the letter, and return it in an enclosed postage paid envelope.



Supposedly that will fix it, we shall see.


I got that same letter.
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  #48  
Old 06-07-2019, 6:51 PM
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Originally Posted by mrdd View Post
I have one of the Real ID licenses for which the DMV required only one proof of residency in violation of U.S. DHS regulations.

And today, I received a letter from the DMV which asks me to check a box signifying that my address is still the same, to sign and date the letter, and return it in an enclosed postage paid envelope.

Supposedly that will fix it, we shall see.
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Originally Posted by Citation650 View Post
I got that same letter.
Posted the DMV fix awhile ago.

Two (2) Proofs of Residency Required
Californians who obtained a federal compliant REAL ID driver license (DL) or identification (ID) card by providing only one proof of California residency when they applied can expect to receive a letter from the DMV explaining how to satisfy the second proof of residency requirement. The DMV began mailing letters in late May 2019.
When cardholders receive the letter, they will simply need to verify their address by checking the box confirming that the mailing address is correct, sign and date the document and send it back to the DMV in the prepaid envelope provided. Taking this action will satisfy the second residency requirement. NOTE: Cardholders who have moved to a new address since applying for a REAL ID DL/ID, may need to provide two proofs of California residency for their new address.

If a customer’s REAL ID DL/ID card does not expire before the REAL ID enforcement date of October 1, 2020, the federal government should accept it to fly within the United States and enter secure federal facilities and military bases.

However, for individuals whose REAL ID driver license or identification card expires before October 1, 2020, the cardholder will need to provide the DMV with a second residency document at the time of their renewal.
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  #49  
Old 06-08-2019, 2:03 PM
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Default repost from 12-09-18

Quote:
UPDATE;

Yesterday, one month after appointment. Still nothing in mail.

Told wife to call DMV c/s #.

Computer voice tells her 40 minute hold time. Or opt for call back.

Wife opts for call back.

38 minutes later. Phn rings TWICE. Caller ID says it was Ca State.

TWO rings..... WTF. She didn't even have time to answer before drone hung up.

Wife calls again. Same computerized voice tells her 1 hr 20 min hold time. Or opt for call back.

Wife sits with phn in lap waiting for call.

1 hr 45 min later DMV calls back. Wife answers on 1st ring. Taking no chances of another freak'n hang up.

Wife explains DMV's screwups in original paperwork, [described in previous posts.] Overpaid, under achieving, Public Service Union POS, tells her she needs to go back to DMV and stand in line, in order to get DMV's mistakes straightened out.. Or she will gladly make her a new appointment. 9 weeks for new appointment opt. Wife says no thanks and hangs up.

I got home a few min after that call. Urge wife to call back again, and demand to speak to supervisor. Which she did, after sitting with phone in lap for another 1 hr 50 min.

This call back, wife demanded supervisor. Get this. DMV drone claims she cannot transfer wife to supervisor. Wife has to wait another 30 min for supervisor to give her a call back.

Only took 22 minutes for supervisor to call. After listening to how bad her minions has screwed the pooch. Supervisor checks records. Tells wife that docs were all in order for REAL ID but counter person didn't enter data properly.

Supervisor assured wife that all was now in order. Only took about 15 minutes on phn. Wife asked how long before new REAL ID DL would arrive in mail.

Supervisor said she would order new REAL ID CDL be processed and sent as a priority. So it would only take.

3 WEEKS..........
After reading this latest thread. It is my honest opinion that Ca-DMV is so freak'n incompetent. They they have no idea who got legit REAL_ID from them And who didn't. My wife's issue was supposedly resolved seven months ago, with intervention of a DMV supervisor.

TODAY SHE GOT THE SAME LETTER MENTIONED. After using 3 forms of valid residence proof. Her then unexpired CDL, Passport, and LA Cnty Assessors Prop Tax Bill.

Likely assumption is that they are again wasting millions of tax dollars by sending unnecessary letters to everyone.

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  #50  
Old 06-09-2019, 11:57 AM
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Originally Posted by pacrat View Post
After reading this latest thread. It is my honest opinion that Ca-DMV is so freak'n incompetent. They they have no idea who got legit REAL_ID from them And who didn't. My wife's issue was supposedly resolved seven months ago, with intervention of a DMV supervisor.

TODAY SHE GOT THE SAME LETTER MENTIONED. After using 3 forms of valid residence proof. Her then unexpired CDL, Passport, and LA Cnty Assessors Prop Tax Bill.

Likely assumption is that they are again wasting millions of tax dollars by sending unnecessary letters to everyone.

You do realize that possession of a drivers license or a passport are not considered evidence of state residency for this purpose. So, if the only other document she showed them was a property tax bill, she only gave them one of the documents required.

That is why she received the letter.

I only showed them one document when I visited last fall, which is why I received the letter.
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  #51  
Old 06-09-2019, 1:08 PM
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Received the same letter. Checked the box and returned the form.

My wife came up for renewal after the SNAFU between US DHS and CA came to light - she was required to bring two proofs of residence. I was only required to bring one. Had I needed to, I could have provided two of course.

Would have pissed me off if I was required to show up in person again, since my Real ID process wasn't smooth sailing - first Real ID came back with no motorcycle license - DMV's bad for not realizing I had both C and M1 and who would just voluntarily surrender a class of license absent some reason; and *my* bad for not noticing on the temp license that they dropped the M1. So I already had to pay two visits to DMV for a Real ID that might be deficient under the Feds rules. My local DMVs are overrun with folks needing to do something in person and appts are months out, so I was not looking forward to showing up at 7 AM or earlier again just to get a spot in line sufficient to get in and out before lunch.
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  #52  
Old 06-09-2019, 3:10 PM
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I received my Real ID a week after my DMV appointment, which took 45 minutes.
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  #53  
Old 06-09-2019, 3:35 PM
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My ReadID appointment was May 16. Took less than an hour. Got it in the mail a week later. IIRC, I provided two forms of residency--- PG&E bill & vehicle registration.
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As for the "don't leave CA you coward" sentiment: I don't fault anyone for feeling that way. I felt that way myself for years. In the end though, CA is a lost cause and the poor people of rural CA will be ruled by the pink-clad fist of San Francisco for the foreseeable future. Living the rest of my life in misery and denying my children freedom won't change that.
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  #54  
Old 06-09-2019, 4:14 PM
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Originally Posted by mrdd View Post
You do realize that possession of a drivers license or a passport are not considered evidence of state residency for this purpose. So, if the only other document she showed them was a property tax bill, she only gave them one of the documents required.

That is why she received the letter.

I only showed them one document when I visited last fall, which is why I received the letter.


"PASSPORT or PASSPORT CARD" are clearly acceptable to prove US RESIDENCY and Identity. Because they are listed on the Ca DMV REAL-ID website. ASMOF, it is the very first item on the list.

Quote:
REAL ID Checklist
Step 1 of 5: Prove Your Identity
To apply for a REAL ID card, you must present one identity document, which shows your date of birth, true full name, and identity. Select ONE document you will use.

Select a document that has your current true full name (first, middle and last). An original document or certified copy is required.
Note: California law requires an applicant to provide true full name, which is the name that will appear on your physical DL or ID card.


Valid, unexpired U.S. passport or passport card.

Certified copy of U.S birth certificate (issued by a city, county, or state vital statistics office).

U.S. Certificate of Birth Abroad or Consular Report of Birth Abroad of U.S. Citizen.

Unexpired foreign passport with valid U.S. Visa and approved I-94 form.

Certified copy of birth certificate from a U.S. Territory.

Certificate of Naturalization or Certificate of U.S. Citizenship.

Valid, unexpired Permanent Resident Card.

Valid/unexpired Employment Authorization Document (EAD) Card (I-766) or valid/expired EAD Card with Notice of Action (I-797 C).
https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/dmv/de...alid/checklist

Again proving asininity of DMV..........current Ca DL meets the criteria of underlined sentence opening above quote. But isn't on the list. Good enough to buy a gun, but not board a plane.

She also filled out and presented this. All duly signed confirmed and accepted by the turd behind the counter.

Quote:
A DMV No Fee Identification Card Eligibility Verification (DL 933) form, completed and signed.
Which is also included on the list of acceptable documentation.

Expecting the worst of our DMV drones. She brought multiples from all the lists. But was told they were not needed. Such as her SSI-1099.

Anything having to do with the corrupt worthless waste of sperm, PubSector Union DMV employees is destined to become a CF from the get go.
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  #55  
Old 06-09-2019, 4:19 PM
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Originally Posted by JohnBrian View Post
My ReadID appointment was May 16. Took less than an hour. Got it in the mail a week later. IIRC, I provided two forms of residency--- PG&E bill & vehicle registration.
I used vehicle registration and voter id postcard, had an appointment and the process went very smoothly.
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  #56  
Old 06-09-2019, 4:45 PM
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FWIW, I took my Son to the DMV on a Saturday about a month ago to get his drivers permit. It was about 2:30pm and we had no appointment. There were twice as many employees as there were customers. We were in and out in no time.
I would of thought differently but one of the gals we talked to said it always like that on Saturday afternoons.
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  #57  
Old 06-09-2019, 7:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Featureless View Post
DOJ ruling

https://oag.ca.gov/system/files/atta...er-alert_0.pdf

Law: Cal. Stats. 2018, ch. 885, S.B. 244
That specifically states that you DO NOT need real ID.

I challenged this right when this real ID nonsense started and not once did I need real ID.

I used to be a permanent resident/green card holder, who bought a lot of guns. You don't need to be a citizen to buy a gun, which also proves you don't need real ID.
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  #58  
Old 06-10-2019, 1:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pacrat View Post
"PASSPORT or PASSPORT CARD" are clearly acceptable to prove US RESIDENCY and Identity. Because they are listed on the Ca DMV REAL-ID website. ASMOF, it is the very first item on the list.
A passport can be used for evidence of identity, but it does not have an address on it. The state residency documents must show the address of primary residence, and the address must match the address which will be on the Real ID.

Note that you have to prove state residency, not U.S. residency.
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  #59  
Old 06-10-2019, 4:48 AM
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Originally Posted by sfe187 View Post
Incorrect.
.....Turner's accept:
Regular unexpired DL/ID (no logo)
.....
This is correct - last week I got a PPT done using an old style unexpired DL to DROS at Turners and they only wanted 1 proof of residency to satisfy the state law.

So my question:
My CDL does not expire till next year (2020), so how would this new ID work if I won't get the "real" ID till next year ?

Can I use my US Passport or US Passport card in lieu of the real ID in the interim to buy a gun ???

To fly domestically, I know that I can use my old style ID with a passport to still board a flight....
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  #60  
Old 06-10-2019, 11:18 AM
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Originally Posted by 4sallypat View Post
This is correct - last week I got a PPT done using an old style unexpired DL to DROS at Turners and they only wanted 1 proof of residency to satisfy the state law.

So my question:
My CDL does not expire till next year (2020), so how would this new ID work if I won't get the "real" ID till next year ?

Can I use my US Passport or US Passport card in lieu of the real ID in the interim to buy a gun ???

To fly domestically, I know that I can use my old style ID with a passport to still board a flight....

You're fine until you need to renew. The 2020 deadline has nothing to do with firearms acquisitions.

As long as you don't have the FLA markings, you shouldn't experience any issues from any FFL.
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  #61  
Old 06-10-2019, 11:23 AM
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Originally Posted by smittty View Post
That specifically states that you DO NOT need real ID.

I challenged this right when this real ID nonsense started and not once did I need real ID.

I used to be a permanent resident/green card holder, who bought a lot of guns. You don't need to be a citizen to buy a gun, which also proves you don't need real ID.


Permanent Residents/Green Card holders are treated as citizens for firearms purposes. Their credentials serve as their "right to be here" document when accompanied with an FLA ID/DL.

Persons here otherwise are treated the same as felons and cannot acquire or possess firearms and ammunition unless they have a valid hunting license.

You can challenge the FFL, but the FFL has every right to apply their policy and denying you a transfer.
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Old 06-10-2019, 1:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4sallypat View Post
This is correct - last week I got a PPT done using an old style unexpired DL to DROS at Turners and they only wanted 1 proof of residency to satisfy the state law.

So my question:
My CDL does not expire till next year (2020), so how would this new ID work if I won't get the "real" ID till next year ?

Can I use my US Passport or US Passport card in lieu of the real ID in the interim to buy a gun ???

To fly domestically, I know that I can use my old style ID with a passport to still board a flight....
You don't even need an ID if you are using a U.S. passport to pass through the TSA screen. The passport is sufficient to prove you are who you say you are.
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  #63  
Old 06-10-2019, 2:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrdd View Post
A passport can be used for evidence of identity, but it does not have an address on it. The state residency documents must show the address of primary residence, and the address must match the address which will be on the Real ID.

Note that you have to prove state residency, not U.S. residency.
As to the bolded;

Please take note that a Ca-DL, that is ALSO a Real-ID for Fed use. Is a multi function document. Incorporating both State/Fed requirements. SO YOU HAVE TO PROVE BOTH.

A valid passport suffices for REAL-ID Fed. requirements. So obviously the Feds don't give a crap where you live. As long as you are a LEGAL resident of US.

Also read and consider ALL of the post. And referenced previous posts by me on the subject.

She provided multiples of all required documentation for both Fed/State requirements. It was the incompetent worthless waste of sperm PubSec Union Drone employee of DMV that screwed it all up. And failed to properly include that documentation.

Which was also the opinion of the DMV Supervisor that supposedly cleared her for CaREAL ID DL over 1/2 a yr ago. She already got the PROPERLY documented REAL ID.

That is again, the basis for my opinion that DMV is just wasting more money trying to "after the fact" cover their worthless azzes by sending unneeded letters to people who already have VALID REAL ID Ca DL.

Last yr after multiple DMV incompetence scandals. They got an additional 70 MILLION tax dollars. So they could improve performance. Just more of the Dem agenda of throwing good money after bad, without any noticeable changes in performance.
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  #64  
Old 06-10-2019, 2:19 PM
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Originally Posted by code_blue View Post
Permanent Residents/Green Card holders are treated as citizens for firearms purposes. Their credentials serve as their "right to be here" document when accompanied with an FLA ID/DL.

Persons here otherwise are treated the same as felons and cannot acquire or possess firearms and ammunition unless they have a valid hunting license.

You can challenge the FFL, but the FFL has every right to apply their policy and denying you a transfer.
The FFL also has the right to place themselves in a position of possible 'CIVIL JEOPARDY". For such "extralegal" policy application.

Just like Sheriff Sniff of RivCo did last yr.
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  #65  
Old 06-10-2019, 7:38 PM
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Originally Posted by pacrat View Post
As to the bolded;

Please take note that a Ca-DL, that is ALSO a Real-ID for Fed use. Is a multi function document. Incorporating both State/Fed requirements. SO YOU HAVE TO PROVE BOTH.

A valid passport suffices for REAL-ID Fed. requirements. So obviously the Feds don't give a crap where you live. As long as you are a LEGAL resident of US.
You have to establish several things when you apply. Among them are:

1) Your identity.
2) Your lawful presence in the U.S.
3) Your address of primary residence

A passport only establishes (1) & (2), you need to provide two other documents for (3). The documents for (3) must contain the name and address which are going on the Real ID. A passport does not satisfy (3).
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  #66  
Old 06-10-2019, 8:58 PM
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Originally Posted by mrdd View Post
You have to establish several things when you apply. Among them are:

1) Your identity.
2) Your lawful presence in the U.S.
3) Your address of primary residence

A passport only establishes (1) & (2), you need to provide two other documents for (3). The documents for (3) must contain the name and address which are going on the Real ID. A passport does not satisfy (3).
I never said a passport satisfies 3. I said it satisfies Fed requirements which are 1 & 2. [3] is a STATE requirement, as is 1 partially, because it is inclusive with Fed. So which DMV office do you work at?
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  #67  
Old 06-10-2019, 9:03 PM
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The FFL also has the right to place themselves in a position of possible 'CIVIL JEOPARDY". For such "extralegal" policy application.

Just like Sheriff Sniff of RivCo did last yr.

Anything can happen in civil. Since this measure is a suggested policy by DOJ, FFL's are good and are acting on good faith. It's not like this is refusing to bake a cake or anything.

Of course, it is your prerogative to spend as much as you'd like chasing civil. I suppose you're going to tell FFL's that they also have to perform PPT's as well when they don't?
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Old 06-10-2019, 9:29 PM
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Originally Posted by code_blue View Post

Of course, it is your prerogative to spend as much as you'd like chasing civil. I suppose you're going to tell FFL's that they also have to perform PPT's as well when they don't?
When are the times that they don't?

An FFL that does not sell handguns is absolved from a PPT of a handgun.

See the sticky in the FFL forum, http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=725126, especially the note about PC 26825.
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Old 06-11-2019, 2:10 AM
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I never said a passport satisfies 3. I said it satisfies Fed requirements which are 1 & 2. [3] is a STATE requirement, as is 1 partially, because it is inclusive with Fed. So which DMV office do you work at?
Sorry, but (3) is not a state requirement, it is a federal requirement. See 6 CFR 37.11 (f).
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Old 06-11-2019, 1:28 PM
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Originally Posted by mrdd View Post
Sorry, but (3) is not a state requirement, it is a federal requirement. See 6 CFR 37.11 (f).
Since the topic of discussion is "Ca-DL....REAL ID". This previous quote still applies.

Quote:
Please take note that a Ca-DL, that is ALSO a Real-ID for Fed use. Is a multi function document. Incorporating both State/Fed requirements. SO YOU HAVE TO PROVE BOTH.
Your noted 6 CFR 37.11 (f) quote makes residence requirement inclusive of BOTH gov requirements. But residence still remains also a STATE req.

You still can't even get a FLA CaDL without Ca residence proof.

As previously stated and ignored by you. My wife also;

Quote:
She also filled out and presented this. All duly signed confirmed and accepted by the turd behind the counter.

Quote:
A DMV No Fee Identification Card Eligibility Verification (DL 933) form, completed and signed.

Which is also included on the list of acceptable documentation.
ASININITY AT ITS BEST...... A Current CaDL isn't good for residence proof. But a CaID card issued by DMV is GTG.
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Old 06-11-2019, 1:48 PM
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Originally Posted by code_blue View Post
Anything can happen in civil. Since this measure is a suggested policy by DOJ, FFL's are good and are acting on good faith. It's not like this is refusing to bake a cake or anything.

Of course, it is your prerogative to spend as much as you'd like chasing civil. I suppose you're going to tell FFL's that they also have to perform PPT's as well when they don't?

"Suggested policy by DOJ". Isn't worth spit when it comes to FFLs or anyone else. Any FFL that sucks up to the DOJ's suggestion, and arbitrarily adopts and enforces "extra legal" POLICY. Is not acting in good faith. And are afforded no legal immunity from following the laws "as written", when denying citizens their rights.


Where MY RIGHTS ARE CONCERNED.

Rest assured that I am just that cantankerous old PRO 2A advocate. That will gladly SUE THE SHORTS off of any FFL that arbitrarily adopts, or enforces any "extra legal" policy that denies me my rights.

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Old 06-11-2019, 2:03 PM
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Just a heads up in case folk here haven't been looking in the CA 2A forum:
CA DoJ has proposed Emergency Regulations concerning this, and Real IDs (or older ones without "Federal Limits Apply" wording on them) cards will be required unless the person wants to present supporting documentation with their "Federal Limits Apply" IDs.

https://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/....php?t=1538978

Comment period is 5 days, I think approval/denial will be no later than 30 after that.
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Old 06-11-2019, 7:24 PM
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Originally Posted by pacrat View Post
"Suggested policy by DOJ". Isn't worth spit when it comes to FFLs or anyone else. Any FFL that sucks up to the DOJ's suggestion, and arbitrarily adopts and enforces "extra legal" POLICY. Is not acting in good faith. And are afforded no legal immunity from following the laws "as written", when denying citizens their rights.


Where MY RIGHTS ARE CONCERNED.

Rest assured that I am just that cantankerous old PRO 2A advocate. That will gladly SUE THE SHORTS off of any FFL that arbitrarily adopts, or enforces any "extra legal" policy that denies me my rights.


DOJ must've been watching your complaints and proposed the regs in the below post as retort...




Quote:
Originally Posted by BeAuMaN View Post
Just a heads up in case folk here haven't been looking in the CA 2A forum:
CA DoJ has proposed Emergency Regulations concerning this, and Real IDs (or older ones without "Federal Limits Apply" wording on them) cards will be required unless the person wants to present supporting documentation with their "Federal Limits Apply" IDs.

https://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/....php?t=1538978

Comment period is 5 days, I think approval/denial will be no later than 30 after that.
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Old 06-11-2019, 8:42 PM
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Yeah basically DOJ is taking the stance that leaving it as a guideline isn't working out, as stated in their Emergency Findings doc. The arguments above kind of echo that. Gonna do some selective copy-paste:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Emergency Findings: Specific Facts Demonstrating the Need for Immediate Action
-=SNIP=-
As set forth above, there have been significant changes recently to California driver licenses and identification cards, as well as to California law governing their use as evidence of citizenship or immigration status. These changes have affected the eligibility check process and have left firearm dealers and ammunition vendors, as well as law enforcement agencies, unable to rely on federal non-compliant licenses when determining whether a prospective purchaser or applicant is permitted to possess a firearm or ammunition, consistent with state and federal law.

Failure to act may result in significant public harm. The Department is concerned that firearm dealers and ammunition vendors may inadvertently sell firearms or ammunition to individuals who are not eligible under federal law because they are not lawfully present in the United States.

The result is widespread confusion for firearm dealers, law enforcement agencies, and the public.
Current regulations do not address the recent changes to California law regarding California driver licenses and identification cards. Some firearm dealers have declined to sell firearms to persons who only have a federal non-compliant license or identification card without proof of lawful presence in the United States. But the Department has no way of knowing whether all firearm dealers follow the same protocol. Before the passage of SB 244, the National Rifle Association had advised firearm dealers to ask for additional information at their discretion if the dealer had “cause to believe the individual using one of these licenses may be prohibited from possessing firearms.” (National Rifle Association Institute for Legislative Action, “California Special Alert: Update Regarding Use of Non-REAL IDs for Firearm Purchases,” March 22, 2018.)

This confusion has had a negative financial impact on 1800 firearm dealers and their employees throughout the state, and will negatively impact 250 ammunition vendors (as of July 1, 2019).
Also, firearm dealers that require additional documentation may lose business to those that do not require any additional documentation. This confusion also increases the risk that firearms or ammunition will be inadvertently sold to persons who are not eligible to make such purchases under federal law.

This emergency regulation is necessary to secure the eligibility check process, and to assist firearm dealers and ammunition vendors, as well as law enforcement agencies, to obtain sufficient information that will allow for an accurate determination of whether a prospective purchaser or applicant is permitted to possess firearms or ammunition, consistent with federal law.
And also
Quote:
Originally Posted by Emergency Findings: Explanation of Failure to Adopt Nonemergency Regulations
After the passage of SB 244 in September 2018, the Department issued guidance to firearm dealers suggesting that they consider asking prospective purchasers with federal non-compliant driver licenses or identification cards for additional documentation establishing lawful presence in the United States. The Department also issued a consumer alert to California residents with a federal non-compliant license or identification that a firearm dealer may require additional documentation for firearm purchases.

But the guidance issued by the Department is voluntary and not all firearm dealers follow the guidance. After six months the Department has determined that the guidance is not sufficient to address the threat to public harm resulting from changes in California law relating to California driver licenses and identification cards.
So that's CA DoJ's claim regarding the whole situation. For some reason it -must- be an "Emergency Regulation", so whatever.
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Old 06-12-2019, 12:04 AM
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Quote:
Failure to act may result in significant public harm. The Department is concerned that firearm dealers and ammunition vendors may inadvertently sell firearms or ammunition to individuals who are not eligible under federal law because they are not lawfully present in the United States.
Further proof that the worthless waste of sperm Public Sector Union Members at DMV. Took what should have been a simple Fed ID compliance requirement.

And turned it into such a ridiculously convoluted Cluster Fudge. That now DOJ is declaring it an emergency.

The same leftist libs that control DOJ. Are afraid a few guns might end up in prohibited hands. But see no problem when they unleash tens of thousands of felons back on the street to victimize law abiding citizens.

Method to Madness.............Leftist Dems want felons released from prison. Same leftist Dems, want same felons to be allowed to vote. Leftist Dems just created tens of thousands MORE Dem Voters. Who will vote against 2A at every opportunity. After all, as career criminals. The last thing these newly minted career criminal voters want is armed citizens. They, like their Dem benefactors want unarmed victims.
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Old 06-17-2019, 7:28 PM
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Originally Posted by five.five-six View Post
Same here, not a word till I went to pick it up.


It was Ammo brothers.

The real issue is that it's a mothers-day gift for my wife.
That’s a straw purchase.

a. Are you the actual transferee/buyer of the firearm(s) listed on this form? Warning: You are not the actual transferee/buyer if you are
acquiring the firearm(s) on behalf of another person. If you are not the actual transferee/buyer, the licensee cannot transfer the firearm(s) to you. Exception: If you are picking up a repaired firearm(s) for another person, you are not required to answer 11.a. and may proceed to question 11.b. (See Instructions for Question 11.a.)
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Old 06-17-2019, 8:17 PM
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Originally Posted by 21guns View Post
That’s a straw purchase.

a. Are you the actual transferee/buyer of the firearm(s) listed on this form? Warning: You are not the actual transferee/buyer if you are
acquiring the firearm(s) on behalf of another person. If you are not the actual transferee/buyer, the licensee cannot transfer the firearm(s) to you. Exception: If you are picking up a repaired firearm(s) for another person, you are not required to answer 11.a. and may proceed to question 11.b. (See Instructions for Question 11.a.)
It is not a straw purchase as long as it is a bona-fide gift for the other person, not bought at the other person's request, and the gift transfer follows the laws of the state. California law allows transfers of firearms between spouses.

From the ATF Reference Guide:

Where a person purchases a firearm with the intent of making a gift of the firearm to another person, the person making the purchase is indeed the true purchaser. There is no straw purchaser in these instances. In the above example, if Mr. Jones had bought a firearm with his own money to give to Mr. Smith as a birthday present, Mr. Jones could lawfully have completed Form 4473. The use of gift certificates would also not fall within the category of straw purchases. The person redeeming the gift certificate would be the actual purchaser of the firearm and would be properly reflected as such in the dealer's records.

ETA:

Also, from the instructions on Form 4473, for line 11a:

A person is also the actual transferee/buyer if he/she is legitimately purchasing the firearm as a bona fide gift for a third party. A gift is not bona fide if another person offered or gave the person completing this form money, service(s), or item(s) of value to acquire the firearm for him/her, or if the other person is prohibited by law from receiving or possessing the firearm.

Last edited by mrdd; 06-18-2019 at 3:31 AM..
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Old 06-18-2019, 6:18 AM
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California is now considered compliant with the RealID act, according to the DHS website.

The last holdouts are: Oregon, Oklahoma, Kentucky, New Jersey, Maine, and American Samoa.
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