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  #1  
Old 04-25-2019, 11:30 AM
camaross400 camaross400 is offline
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Default Hornady 150gr COL Question 300 BLK

Hello All,

I am sorry if this has already been discussed on the forum in another place. I am loading 300 Blackout for a 16Ē Aero Precision build. I have a ton of AA1680 that I use for my AK and Hornady 150gr FMJ BT (3037) that I have left over. I would like to use it for 300 Blackout.

I have the two last Hornady manuals and the COL for each is 2.220 (9th edition) and 2.090 (10th edition). I am working up loads and the cases are pretty full when loading with A1680. The final load I loaded was 21.4gr which is close to max and the bullet does not have much space left in the case.

Does anyone have any experience with Hornady 150gr (3037) and A1680 for 300 BLKOUT?


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Last edited by camaross400; 04-25-2019 at 11:47 AM..
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  #2  
Old 04-25-2019, 12:23 PM
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NorCalFocus NorCalFocus is offline
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I don;t have experience with your pitticular combo, but generally for AR loads, COAL is just based off of magazine length. So if your seating down further than you need to fit into the mag, just seat it a bit longer.

You can also try vibrating the powder down to help it settle. It works well with stick powders, but with a ball powder like that, it may not. But its worth a shot.
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  #3  
Old 04-25-2019, 12:53 PM
scotty99 scotty99 is offline
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Itís also not at all uncommon for 300BLK loads to be compressed. Lilí Gun is halfway up the neck in a max load. Looks scary, but it shoots fine.
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Old 04-25-2019, 12:57 PM
camaross400 camaross400 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NorCalFocus View Post

You can also try vibrating the powder down to help it settle. It works well with stick powders, but with a ball powder like that, it may not. But its worth a shot.
Iíll try it.


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Old 04-25-2019, 1:00 PM
camaross400 camaross400 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scotty99 View Post
Itís also not at all uncommon for 300BLK loads to be compressed. Lilí Gun is halfway up the neck in a max load. Looks scary, but it shoots fine.


Good to know. A1680 isnít quite up the neck but it is pretty packed. When I load H110, I load it to 2.090 with no problem. However, when I tried to load A1680 at 21.4gr with the same seating die, I got around 2.12-5 consistently which led me to believe it was so compressed it couldnít seat any further.


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  #6  
Old 04-25-2019, 6:51 PM
rg1 rg1 is offline
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Most often recommended length for the Hornady 150 FMJ in 300 BLK in AR magazines is 2.065". That length will align the cartridge in the magazine for reliable feeding. The advice when I started loading 300 BLK for AR rifles was to measure the bullet and place a mark on the bullet where it measures .250". (out on the tapered nose of the bullet) Seat the bullet to where the mark aligns with the hump inside the AR mag. This will keep the cartridge straight in the mag instead of angling inward. The .250" is near the same as the outside of a .223 Rem cartridge neck. I would seat them to 2.065" to 2.100". This mainly applies to GI style magazines but about the same for Magpul and others. The idea is not for longest seating length for a magazine but a seated length that equals .223 Rem necks and will have the cartridge straight in the mag.

Last edited by rg1; 04-25-2019 at 6:55 PM..
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  #7  
Old 04-25-2019, 7:13 PM
edgerly779 edgerly779 is offline
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My 5744 loads are compressed
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  #8  
Old 04-25-2019, 8:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by camaross400 View Post
Good to know. A1680 isn’t quite up the neck but it is pretty packed. When I load H110, I load it to 2.090 with no problem. However, when I tried to load A1680 at 21.4gr with the same seating die, I got around 2.12-5 consistently which led me to believe it was so compressed it couldn’t seat any further.
The test for too much powder compression is to seat bullets to your given OAL, then let them sit overnight and measure them again the next day and see if they got longer.
If they grow overnight, they were too compressed.
If they don't grow, they are not too compressed.

That being said, I would seat the bullets and crimp into the cannelure.
What's your OAL when the case neck is half way into the cannelure?

Code:
Cartridge          : .300 AAC Blackout (SAAMI)
Bullet             : .308, 150, Hornady FMJ-BT 3037
Useable Case Capaci: 18.696 grain H2O = 1.214 cm≥
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.090 inch = 53.09 mm
Barrel Length      : 16.2 inch = 411.5 mm
Powder             : Accurate 1680

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 1.5% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step    Fill. Charge   Vel.  Energy   Pmax   Pmuz  Prop.Burnt B_Time
 %       %    Grains   fps   ft.lbs    psi    psi      %        ms

-15.0   95    17.00   1747    1017   37395   3845     85.3    1.132
-13.5   96    17.30   1779    1054   39467   3930     86.2    1.106
-12.0   98    17.60   1811    1092   41673   4013     87.0    1.081
-10.5  100    17.90   1843    1131   44021   4094     87.9    1.056
-09.0  101    18.20   1875    1171   46524   4173     88.7    1.032
-07.5  103    18.50   1907    1211   49193   4251     89.5    1.009  ! Near Maximum !
-06.0  105    18.80   1940    1253   52046   4325     90.3    0.986  ! Near Maximum !
-04.5  106    19.10   1972    1295   55098   4398     91.1    0.964  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
-03.0  108    19.40   2005    1339   58355   4467     91.8    0.942  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
-01.5  110    19.70   2038    1383   61835   4534     92.5    0.921  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+00.0  111    20.00   2071    1428   65571   4597     93.2    0.900  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+01.5  113    20.30   2104    1474   69592   4657     93.9    0.880  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+03.0  115    20.60   2137    1522   73929   4714     94.5    0.860  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.5  116    20.90   2171    1570   78615   4766     95.1    0.841  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+06.0  118    21.20   2205    1619   83691   4815     95.7    0.822  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+07.5  120    21.50   2239    1670   89203   4859     96.2    0.804  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by Ī 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba    111    20.00   2175    1575   78228   4653     98.0    0.841  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba    111    20.00   1940    1254   53583   4356     85.5    0.977  ! Near Maximum !
I' surprised 21.4gr would even fit.
What's your water capacity on your cases?
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Last edited by ar15barrels; 04-25-2019 at 8:34 PM..
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  #9  
Old 04-26-2019, 12:59 AM
camaross400 camaross400 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ar15barrels View Post
The test for too much powder compression is to seat bullets to your given OAL, then let them sit overnight and measure them again the next day and see if they got longer.
If they grow overnight, they were too compressed.
If they don't grow, they are not too compressed.
I will try this.




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  #10  
Old 04-26-2019, 1:02 AM
camaross400 camaross400 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ar15barrels View Post
What's your OAL when the case neck is half way into the cannelure?
I believe that 2.090 is close to the middle/bottom of the cannelure. I will have to double check tomorrow when I am home.



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  #11  
Old 04-26-2019, 1:12 AM
camaross400 camaross400 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rg1 View Post
Most often recommended length for the Hornady 150 FMJ in 300 BLK in AR magazines is 2.065". That length will align the cartridge in the magazine for reliable feeding. The advice when I started loading 300 BLK for AR rifles was to measure the bullet and place a mark on the bullet where it measures .250". (out on the tapered nose of the bullet) Seat the bullet to where the mark aligns with the hump inside the AR mag. This will keep the cartridge straight in the mag instead of angling inward. The .250" is near the same as the outside of a .223 Rem cartridge neck. I would seat them to 2.065" to 2.100". This mainly applies to GI style magazines but about the same for Magpul and others. The idea is not for longest seating length for a magazine but a seated length that equals .223 Rem necks and will have the cartridge straight in the mag.


Thank you for the info!


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  #12  
Old 04-26-2019, 7:59 AM
camaross400 camaross400 is offline
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Default Hornady 150gr COL Question 300 BLK

Quote:
Originally Posted by ar15barrels View Post
The test for too much powder compression is to seat bullets to your given OAL, then let them sit overnight and measure them again the next day and see if they got longer.
If they grow overnight, they were too compressed.
If they don't grow, they are not too compressed.

That being said, I would seat the bullets and crimp into the cannelure.
What's your OAL when the case neck is half way into the cannelure?

Code:
Cartridge          : .300 AAC Blackout (SAAMI)
Bullet             : .308, 150, Hornady FMJ-BT 3037
Useable Case Capaci: 18.696 grain H2O = 1.214 cm≥
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.090 inch = 53.09 mm
Barrel Length      : 16.2 inch = 411.5 mm
Powder             : Accurate 1680

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 1.5% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step    Fill. Charge   Vel.  Energy   Pmax   Pmuz  Prop.Burnt B_Time
 %       %    Grains   fps   ft.lbs    psi    psi      %        ms

-15.0   95    17.00   1747    1017   37395   3845     85.3    1.132
-13.5   96    17.30   1779    1054   39467   3930     86.2    1.106
-12.0   98    17.60   1811    1092   41673   4013     87.0    1.081
-10.5  100    17.90   1843    1131   44021   4094     87.9    1.056
-09.0  101    18.20   1875    1171   46524   4173     88.7    1.032
-07.5  103    18.50   1907    1211   49193   4251     89.5    1.009  ! Near Maximum !
-06.0  105    18.80   1940    1253   52046   4325     90.3    0.986  ! Near Maximum !
-04.5  106    19.10   1972    1295   55098   4398     91.1    0.964  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
-03.0  108    19.40   2005    1339   58355   4467     91.8    0.942  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
-01.5  110    19.70   2038    1383   61835   4534     92.5    0.921  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+00.0  111    20.00   2071    1428   65571   4597     93.2    0.900  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+01.5  113    20.30   2104    1474   69592   4657     93.9    0.880  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+03.0  115    20.60   2137    1522   73929   4714     94.5    0.860  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.5  116    20.90   2171    1570   78615   4766     95.1    0.841  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+06.0  118    21.20   2205    1619   83691   4815     95.7    0.822  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+07.5  120    21.50   2239    1670   89203   4859     96.2    0.804  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by Ī 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba    111    20.00   2175    1575   78228   4653     98.0    0.841  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba    111    20.00   1940    1254   53583   4356     85.5    0.977  ! Near Maximum !
I' surprised 21.4gr would even fit.
What's your water capacity on your cases?


Here are some pics.

Here is the bullet seated to 2.090.


Here is 21.4gr of A1680 in the case.





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Last edited by camaross400; 04-26-2019 at 8:16 AM..
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  #13  
Old 04-26-2019, 8:01 AM
camaross400 camaross400 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rg1 View Post
Most often recommended length for the Hornady 150 FMJ in 300 BLK in AR magazines is 2.065". That length will align the cartridge in the magazine for reliable feeding. The advice when I started loading 300 BLK for AR rifles was to measure the bullet and place a mark on the bullet where it measures .250". (out on the tapered nose of the bullet) Seat the bullet to where the mark aligns with the hump inside the AR mag. This will keep the cartridge straight in the mag instead of angling inward. The .250" is near the same as the outside of a .223 Rem cartridge neck. I would seat them to 2.065" to 2.100". This mainly applies to GI style magazines but about the same for Magpul and others. The idea is not for longest seating length for a magazine but a seated length that equals .223 Rem necks and will have the cartridge straight in the mag.


Here is the bullet length.


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  #14  
Old 04-26-2019, 8:22 AM
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Take an unsized fireformed case with the fired primer still in it and set it on your scale.
Write down the weight of the dry case.
Fill the case with water until it is even with the end of the case.
Make sure you tap on the case to get the micro bubbles out.
Wipe off all water from the outside of the case.
If there is a bulge of water above the mouth of the case, use a tissue to suck up the extra water until it's flat at the case mouth.
Weigh that water-filled case.
Subtract the dry case weight and report back.
I'll re-run the Quickload pass with your exact water capacity and see what it says, but with a standard SAAMI spec case, it looks like you are almost 30,000PSI over-pressure with that load.
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Old 04-26-2019, 8:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ar15barrels View Post
Take an unsized fireformed case with the fired primer still in it and set it on your scale.
Write down the weight of the dry case.
Fill the case with water until it is even with the end of the case.
Make sure you tap on the case to get the micro bubbles out.
Wipe off all water from the outside of the case.
If there is a bulge of water above the mouth of the case, use a tissue to suck up the extra water until it's flat at the case mouth.
Weigh that water-filled case.
Subtract the dry case weight and report back.
I'll re-run the Quickload pass with your exact water capacity and see what it says, but with a standard SAAMI spec case, it looks like you are almost 30,000PSI over-pressure with that load.


I will do that once I go out to the range again. I processed all of the 300 Blackout brass I had on hand.


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Old 04-26-2019, 8:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by camaross400 View Post
I will do that once I go out to the range again.
Drop back to 18.5gr to fireform.
If you have a chronograph, let me know what velocity 18.5 gives you and I can use that to further prove out the Ouickload model.
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Old 04-26-2019, 8:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ar15barrels View Post
Drop back to 18.5gr to fireform.

If you have a chronograph, let me know what velocity 18.5 gives you and I can use that to further prove out the Ouickload model.


Thanks! I will bring my chrono.


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Old 04-28-2019, 4:40 PM
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Default Hornady 150gr COL Question 300 BLK

Quote:
Originally Posted by rg1 View Post
Most often recommended length for the Hornady 150 FMJ in 300 BLK in AR magazines is 2.065". That length will align the cartridge in the magazine for reliable feeding. The advice when I started loading 300 BLK for AR rifles was to measure the bullet and place a mark on the bullet where it measures .250". (out on the tapered nose of the bullet) Seat the bullet to where the mark aligns with the hump inside the AR mag. This will keep the cartridge straight in the mag instead of angling inward. The .250" is near the same as the outside of a .223 Rem cartridge neck. I would seat them to 2.065" to 2.100". This mainly applies to GI style magazines but about the same for Magpul and others. The idea is not for longest seating length for a magazine but a seated length that equals .223 Rem necks and will have the cartridge straight in the mag.


I just realized that the photo I posted did not have the .250 mark on it. I went back and measured like you stated in your post. This bullet (Hornady 150gr FMJ BT 3037) is seated at 2.090 and the shorter sharpie line (bottom line) is at .250. That line is almost even with the top of the hump of the mag. 2.065 could make it even.


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Last edited by camaross400; 04-28-2019 at 4:43 PM..
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Old 04-29-2019, 11:16 PM
sigstroker sigstroker is offline
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No crimp?

Are these originally Blackout brass or converted GI brass?
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Old 04-30-2019, 4:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sigstroker View Post
No crimp?

Are these originally Blackout brass or converted GI brass?


I didnít crimp yet because I am still determining the case length. These are original 300 Blackout cases.


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Old 06-11-2019, 7:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ar15barrels View Post
Take an unsized fireformed case with the fired primer still in it and set it on your scale.
Write down the weight of the dry case.
Fill the case with water until it is even with the end of the case.
Make sure you tap on the case to get the micro bubbles out.
Wipe off all water from the outside of the case.
If there is a bulge of water above the mouth of the case, use a tissue to suck up the extra water until it's flat at the case mouth.
Weigh that water-filled case.
Subtract the dry case weight and report back.
I'll re-run the Quickload pass with your exact water capacity and see what it says, but with a standard SAAMI spec case, it looks like you are almost 30,000PSI over-pressure with that load.

Sorry for the long wait. I didnít get out to the range until Sunday because of work. The weight of a dry case was 87.1 and the water filled case was 110.2
Which is a difference of 23.1 gr.


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  #22  
Old 06-11-2019, 11:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by camaross400 View Post
The weight of a dry case was 87.1 and the water filled case was 110.2
Which is a difference of 23.1 gr.
That is 2gr LESS water capacity than the standard SAAMI model in quickload.

Code:
Cartridge          : .300 AAC Blackout (SAAMI)
Bullet             : .308, 150, Hornady FMJ-BT 3037
Useable Case Capaci: 16.687 grain H2O = 1.083 cm≥
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.090 inch = 53.09 mm
Barrel Length      : 16.2 inch = 411.5 mm
Powder             : Accurate 1680

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 1.177% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step    Fill. Charge   Vel.  Energy   Pmax   Pmuz  Prop.Burnt B_Time
 %       %    Grains   fps   ft.lbs    psi    psi      %        ms

-11.8   93    15.00   1603     855   32395   3235     80.5    1.216
-10.6   95    15.20   1625     879   33695   3293     81.3    1.197
-09.4   96    15.40   1647     903   35056   3351     82.0    1.178
-08.2   97    15.60   1669     928   36480   3408     82.7    1.159
-07.1   98    15.80   1692     953   37971   3465     83.4    1.141
-05.9  100    16.00   1714     979   39534   3521     84.0    1.122
-04.7  101    16.20   1737    1005   41173   3576     84.7    1.103
-03.5  102    16.40   1760    1031   42892   3631     85.4    1.084
-02.4  103    16.60   1782    1058   44687   3684     86.0    1.066
-01.2  105    16.80   1805    1085   46596   3737     86.7    1.048
+00.0  106    17.00   1828    1113   48592   3789     87.3    1.030  ! Near Maximum !
+01.2  107    17.20   1851    1142   50691   3839     87.9    1.013  ! Near Maximum !
+02.4  108    17.40   1875    1170   52902   3889     88.5    0.996  ! Near Maximum !
+03.5  110    17.60   1898    1200   55235   3937     89.1    0.979  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.7  111    17.80   1921    1230   57697   3984     89.7    0.963  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+05.9  112    18.00   1945    1260   60292   4030     90.2    0.947  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by Ī 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba    106    17.00   1936    1248   58180   3955     93.9    0.958  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba    106    17.00   1700     963   39954   3489     78.3    1.122
For fun, here are the 21-22gr loads:

Code:
+00.0  131    21.00   2317    1789  127268   4489     97.2    0.732  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+01.0  132    21.20   2344    1830  134935   4499     97.5    0.719  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+01.9  133    21.40   2371    1872  143303   4506     97.8    0.707  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+02.9  135    21.60   2398    1915  152471   4509     98.1    0.694  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+03.8  136    21.80   2425    1959  162553   4508     98.4    0.681  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.8  137    22.00   2453    2004  173691   4502     98.7    0.669  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Quickload estimates 143,303 PSI for your load.
That's about 2.5x the safe operating pressure that the AR-15 action is designed for.
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Randall Rausch

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