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FFL's Forum For open discussion between FFLs and polite questions for FFLs. |
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#41
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Another question, My mom in Az wants to gift me a new off roster handgun, however she hasn't bought it yet. Does she have to take possession of it first in Az from FFL there then send it to FFL here or can she buy it from online dealer and have it shipped straight to FFL here in Ca. Just trying to skip one of the shipping and transactions if it's not necessary due to shipping costs and make it easier on her.
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#42
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General consensus is that she has to take possession of it first in order to gift it to you.
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UG Imports - Fremont, CA FFL - Transfers, New Gun Sales Closure Schedule: http://ugimports.com/closed web: http://ugimports.com/calguns / email: sales@ugimports.com phone: (510) 371-GUNS (4867) Crowdsourced 2A Calendar I AM THE MAJORITY!!! Amazon Links Posted May be Paid Links |
#43
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If the firearm is not transferred to her, then it would likely not be considered to be an intrafamilial transfer as it is NOT a transfer between a parent/child/grandparent/grandchild, but instead from the FFL. If it worked to just have a family member pay for the item, then a family member could call your local FFL and just pay for the firearm, which obviously does not work.
It also has to be a gift. If it is not really a gift, then the family member filling out the 4473 is making a false statement as they are not the actual buyer/transferee (the gift exemption does not apply when it is not a gift).
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Kemasa. False signature edited by Paul: Banned from the FFL forum due to being rude and insulting. Doing this continues his abuse. Don't tell someone to read the rules he wrote or tell him that he is wrong. Never try to teach a pig to sing. You waste your time and you annoy the pig. - Robert A. Heinlein |
#44
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UGI, thank you!
Is the Intrafamilial transfer necessary for CA resident father/mother to CA resident Son/Daughter then? What needs to be done then a regular PPT or can it just be given as it is intended to be, a gift. Sorry I find it irritating that a love one has to pay to basically notify a transfer that isn't done in another state at all. |
#45
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NRA Lifer |
#46
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For a CA intrafamilial transfer, you just need to fill out the CA DOJ form and send in the money. No FFL is required. In other states you can sell a firearm FTF with no payment to the government at all. That is part of the problem with living in CA.
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Kemasa. False signature edited by Paul: Banned from the FFL forum due to being rude and insulting. Doing this continues his abuse. Don't tell someone to read the rules he wrote or tell him that he is wrong. Never try to teach a pig to sing. You waste your time and you annoy the pig. - Robert A. Heinlein |
#47
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With respect to the gift, as far as I am aware, the limitation is in regards to a family member buying a firearm from a dealer. If they have already had the firearm, I don't know of any restrictions in regards to selling it and doing it as an intrafamilial transfer. They could also buy the firearm from a private party in a free state, as long as they don't have to fill out a 4473. They can not legally fill out a 4473 saying that they are the actual buyer/transferee if it not a gift because they would not be considered to be the actual buyer/transferee.
If the firearm is sold, then there is the sales tax requirement.
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Kemasa. False signature edited by Paul: Banned from the FFL forum due to being rude and insulting. Doing this continues his abuse. Don't tell someone to read the rules he wrote or tell him that he is wrong. Never try to teach a pig to sing. You waste your time and you annoy the pig. - Robert A. Heinlein |
#48
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Gentlemembers,
Please recall that this is the FFL forum, and this thread is on the specifics an FFL must know to legally accomplish an interstate intrafamilial transfer - just as it is titled. Other kinds of questions should be directed to the 'How California Law Affects Me' forum, where there are already many posts on intrafamilial transfer. Please also note there is a sticky in this forum - http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s....php?t=1058641 - that points to more information useful to givers and receivers.
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ARCHIVED Calguns Foundation Wiki here: http://web.archive.org/web/201908310...itle=Main_Page "The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane."Ann Althouse: “Begin with the hypothesis that what they did is what they wanted to do. If they postured that they wanted to do something else, regard that as a con. Work from there. The world will make much more sense.” Not a lawyer, just Some Guy On The Interwebs. Last edited by Librarian; 05-09-2016 at 1:54 PM.. |
#49
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Yupe, ACES takes the intrafamilial transfer. They charge the lowest transfer fee in town and provide great customer services.
Last edited by e0eli; 05-10-2016 at 2:31 PM.. |
#50
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Awesome, and thank you for the suggestion.
Last edited by huktunfonikz; 05-10-2016 at 2:31 PM.. |
#51
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#52
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FFL to gift it to you unless he moves back into California and establishes residency at which point Oplaw would work.
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UG Imports - Fremont, CA FFL - Transfers, New Gun Sales Closure Schedule: http://ugimports.com/closed web: http://ugimports.com/calguns / email: sales@ugimports.com phone: (510) 371-GUNS (4867) Crowdsourced 2A Calendar I AM THE MAJORITY!!! Amazon Links Posted May be Paid Links |
#54
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I want to mention that I also spoke with someone at Riflegear down in Fountain Valley, and they seem to know what to do - they also accept firearm shipments from non-FFLs as well. I plan to use them on the upcoming gift transfer from my father (it is for my birthday). |
#55
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How does FFL reconcile an interstate transfer of off roster gun when both parties have CA ID's? Kids NM auto registration, residential lease, military papers? Can I hand deliver gun to FFL or does kid have to carry it in/ship it? (I'll see kid on our annual northwest vacation this summer and get it then, or wait until he comes to CA for Christmas/ship it) |
#56
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Your son in NM can ship it or carry it in.
__________________
Kemasa. False signature edited by Paul: Banned from the FFL forum due to being rude and insulting. Doing this continues his abuse. Don't tell someone to read the rules he wrote or tell him that he is wrong. Never try to teach a pig to sing. You waste your time and you annoy the pig. - Robert A. Heinlein |
#57
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When kid moved off campus while in college (UCSD) I loaned him my M9. Since loan to 19yr old was only good for 10 days I ended up giving it to him. CA laws on loaning handguns have change since then or interstate loans are a no-no? |
#58
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Kemasa. False signature edited by Paul: Banned from the FFL forum due to being rude and insulting. Doing this continues his abuse. Don't tell someone to read the rules he wrote or tell him that he is wrong. Never try to teach a pig to sing. You waste your time and you annoy the pig. - Robert A. Heinlein |
#60
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Yes, assuming that it is acceptable to the FFL.
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Kemasa. False signature edited by Paul: Banned from the FFL forum due to being rude and insulting. Doing this continues his abuse. Don't tell someone to read the rules he wrote or tell him that he is wrong. Never try to teach a pig to sing. You waste your time and you annoy the pig. - Robert A. Heinlein |
#61
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Great thanks! Always thought that it need to go from grandfather in this case who is out of state, to father in CA and then Daughter who also is in CA.
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#62
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It is parent/child/grandparent/grandchild.
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Kemasa. False signature edited by Paul: Banned from the FFL forum due to being rude and insulting. Doing this continues his abuse. Don't tell someone to read the rules he wrote or tell him that he is wrong. Never try to teach a pig to sing. You waste your time and you annoy the pig. - Robert A. Heinlein |
#63
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Does intrafamilial include spouse-spouse transfer?
Can a husband in state A 'gift' his firearm to his wife who is currently California resident using intrafamilial transfer? *My new brother-in-law is from AZ and is still considered AZ resident. I plan to ask him to get me some off-rosters (through his wife - my sister - then PPT to me), that is if it's legal. Last edited by Achye; 06-17-2016 at 11:05 AM.. Reason: additional info |
#64
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That is an interesting question.
It would not be an intrafamilial transfer since that is between parent/child/grandparent/grandchild, but it should be exempt by other means.
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Kemasa. False signature edited by Paul: Banned from the FFL forum due to being rude and insulting. Doing this continues his abuse. Don't tell someone to read the rules he wrote or tell him that he is wrong. Never try to teach a pig to sing. You waste your time and you annoy the pig. - Robert A. Heinlein |
#65
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It's legal for a spouse to give property to another spouse, via a process called 'transmutation', and the OPLAW form is the right documentation for that when done by 2 CA residents. And since such an in-state transmutation need not go through an FFL, it's Roster-exempt. But as Kemasa points out, spouse-spouse is not inside the CA definition of 'immediate family'. (Families where spouses are residents of different states create quite a muddle, and the real way to find out is to consult a lawyer.)
__________________
ARCHIVED Calguns Foundation Wiki here: http://web.archive.org/web/201908310...itle=Main_Page "The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane."Ann Althouse: “Begin with the hypothesis that what they did is what they wanted to do. If they postured that they wanted to do something else, regard that as a con. Work from there. The world will make much more sense.” Not a lawyer, just Some Guy On The Interwebs. Last edited by Librarian; 06-17-2016 at 11:21 AM.. |
#66
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My mom wants to gift me a handgun. Can she purchase it and have it shipped to my FFL without taking possesion of it first? She would send all the info required by the Feds, CA and the FFL. This is a gift so no exchange of money is occuring.
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#67
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She can't do an intra familial transfer on a firearm she does not own. So can't do off roster.
__________________
UG Imports - Fremont, CA FFL - Transfers, New Gun Sales Closure Schedule: http://ugimports.com/closed web: http://ugimports.com/calguns / email: sales@ugimports.com phone: (510) 371-GUNS (4867) Crowdsourced 2A Calendar I AM THE MAJORITY!!! Amazon Links Posted May be Paid Links |
#68
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What he said. If she does not own it, meaning transferred to her since paying does not make her own it, it does not mean the requirements for an intrafamilial transfer. If it did, then a parent could just pay a CA FFL for the firearm.
__________________
Kemasa. False signature edited by Paul: Banned from the FFL forum due to being rude and insulting. Doing this continues his abuse. Don't tell someone to read the rules he wrote or tell him that he is wrong. Never try to teach a pig to sing. You waste your time and you annoy the pig. - Robert A. Heinlein |
#69
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Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk |
#70
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Federal laws requires residents of different states to go through a FFL in the buyer/transferee state of residence.
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Kemasa. False signature edited by Paul: Banned from the FFL forum due to being rude and insulting. Doing this continues his abuse. Don't tell someone to read the rules he wrote or tell him that he is wrong. Never try to teach a pig to sing. You waste your time and you annoy the pig. - Robert A. Heinlein |
#71
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Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk |
#72
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He can not buy them for you from a dealer since he would be making a false statement on a Federal form, the 4473, as he is not the actual buyer/transferee. An exemption to that is a gift, but it has to be a real gift. If the money is tracked, you could have a serious problem. Yes, you might get away with it, but that is a big risk to take.
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Kemasa. False signature edited by Paul: Banned from the FFL forum due to being rude and insulting. Doing this continues his abuse. Don't tell someone to read the rules he wrote or tell him that he is wrong. Never try to teach a pig to sing. You waste your time and you annoy the pig. - Robert A. Heinlein |
#73
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Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk |
#74
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No, if it is bought from a private party, then no 4473 is filled out, assuming it is legal in that state. It would not work in CA due to state laws.
__________________
Kemasa. False signature edited by Paul: Banned from the FFL forum due to being rude and insulting. Doing this continues his abuse. Don't tell someone to read the rules he wrote or tell him that he is wrong. Never try to teach a pig to sing. You waste your time and you annoy the pig. - Robert A. Heinlein |
#75
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Thank you for the info! Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk |
#76
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If they have a firearm and bought it for themselves, they can sell it to you and as an intrafamilial transfer it would be exempt. This does not mean that you can convince them to buy something and then wait a bit. If they bought it and the intent was to sell it to you before they bought it, then it would not be legal as they would not be the actual buyer/transferee even if you wait to transfer it.
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Kemasa. False signature edited by Paul: Banned from the FFL forum due to being rude and insulting. Doing this continues his abuse. Don't tell someone to read the rules he wrote or tell him that he is wrong. Never try to teach a pig to sing. You waste your time and you annoy the pig. - Robert A. Heinlein |
#77
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What about the other way around? Say I have an AR lower that I've had for years, and I want to give it to him because I'm not going to do anything with it...how would CA law work transferring it out of state to his possession in Arizona? |
#78
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There is nothing in the CA law which deals with that. Federal law requires that residents of two different states use a FFL in the state of residence of the buyer/transferee to do the transfer.
__________________
Kemasa. False signature edited by Paul: Banned from the FFL forum due to being rude and insulting. Doing this continues his abuse. Don't tell someone to read the rules he wrote or tell him that he is wrong. Never try to teach a pig to sing. You waste your time and you annoy the pig. - Robert A. Heinlein |
#79
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#80
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Quote:
http://oag.ca.gov/sites/all/files/ag...46NLIP0209.pdf
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Kemasa. False signature edited by Paul: Banned from the FFL forum due to being rude and insulting. Doing this continues his abuse. Don't tell someone to read the rules he wrote or tell him that he is wrong. Never try to teach a pig to sing. You waste your time and you annoy the pig. - Robert A. Heinlein |
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