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  #41  
Old 02-21-2020, 3:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TMB 1 View Post
Remington 870, especially if you think you will ever use mini shells. Another option is an H&R if you can't swing for a Remington, I hear the H&R is basically a copy of an 870. If you know you will never use mini shells then pick whichever you like the controls and feel of the best. My Mossberg 500 has been 100% reliable with regular shells, my Remington has been 100% reliable with both regular and mini shells.
I have that sign next to my Gun Rack.
The H@R is what I have described above,really is a great shotgun for the price especially used,this one was shot once then put in the back of a closet for 15 years and the dirt and grime on it made it look pretty bad,brake cleaner and oiling made it brand new again.

I dont understand the mini shell thing myself.
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  #42  
Old 02-21-2020, 4:09 PM
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Sorry!! In a H.D situation I will put up with the recoil to kill the bad guy. you can have your mini shell's and hope it works you!!
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  #43  
Old 02-21-2020, 4:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfmann View Post
I have that sign next to my Gun Rack.
The H@R is what I have described above,really is a great shotgun for the price especially used,this one was shot once then put in the back of a closet for 15 years and the dirt and grime on it made it look pretty bad,brake cleaner and oiling made it brand new again.

I dont understand the mini shell thing myself.
Well if I had to toss my daughter a shotgun she'd do much better with the mini shells, another thing they do is some shotguns have room to fit one more mini shell but not a regular shell, so you can load a mini shell first than rest with regular shells, as long as the mini is not going to cause a jam.
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  #44  
Old 02-21-2020, 4:12 PM
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I will be using 7 rounds of the best out there, After they get a couple of 40 cal mags first.
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  #45  
Old 02-21-2020, 4:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TMB 1 View Post
Well if I had to toss my daughter a shotgun she'd do much better with the mini shells, another thing they do is some shotguns have room to fit one more mini shell but not a regular shell, so you can load a mini shell first than rest with regular shells, as long as the mini is not going to cause a jam.
I can understand that,thank you.
A regular 870 is 4+1 the H@R is 5+1,if you take out the tube plastic spring shell retainer thing the H@R becomes a 6+1 with 2.75 shells no reliability issues.
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  #46  
Old 02-21-2020, 4:21 PM
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Mini shells and bird shot identify people when they say they have them for bike defense.


I met a guy who had his 357 loaded with snake shot

Same type of people





12 gauge - OO buck - standard or even low recoil.


Professional Hunters use 00 buck when dealing with injured big cats... not bird shot.
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  #47  
Old 02-21-2020, 4:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whutsup40 View Post
I will be using 7 rounds of the best out there, After they get a couple of 40 cal mags first.
I alternate mine,slug,buck,slug etc.
But then again I also have the AR or AK.
Pistol choices I have too many to list just what I feel like sleeping with that night,myS@W 629 4 inch 44 mag with +P semi jacket soft lead hollowpoints might be considered overkill by some lol.
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  #48  
Old 02-21-2020, 4:29 PM
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20 million buyers cant be wrong. Bothe 870 Winchester or 1200. Both in ht job at hand.
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  #49  
Old 02-21-2020, 4:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hermosabeach View Post
Mini shells and bird shot identify people when they say they have them for bike defense.


I met a guy who had his 357 loaded with snake shot

Same type of people





12 gauge - OO buck - standard or even low recoil.


Professional Hunters use 00 buck when dealing with injured big cats... not bird shot.
The Gent was saying above that his daughter might have to use it for HD so I would say a mini shell or birdshot might be better than a full load for her.
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  #50  
Old 02-21-2020, 4:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hermosabeach View Post
Mini shells and bird shot identify people when they say they have them for bike defense.


I met a guy who had his 357 loaded with snake shot

Same type of people





12 gauge - OO buck - standard or even low recoil.


Professional Hunters use 00 buck when dealing with injured big cats... not bird shot.
You must not know that mini shells come loaded with 00 buck and are low recoil.. What would be better a 12 gauge with six 00 buck or a 410 with 4?


First couple shots out of my main inside the house HD shotgun is a 3" turkey load with 1 7/8oz of #4 shot, if they can still get up and come after me after a couple of those they should be tenderized enough the 45acp will get enough penetration, but that does not mean it is the main shotgun that would make a trip out to the barn with me.
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  #51  
Old 02-21-2020, 5:13 PM
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I do apologize, For a spouse or younger child, I do see where they could be handy!!!
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  #52  
Old 02-21-2020, 5:35 PM
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Everyone has their own needs and opinions and scenarios can always be VERY unpredictable.
Myself I am single and live in a cabin in the woods so some things differ from others.
The only time I have ACTUALLY had to use my guns for HD came from a tweaker busting in my window early one morning,I had got up to see what the cats were acting up about,my Wolf had just passed away so wasnt there to alert me,just as I walked into the living room SMASH went the window and his head poked through the curtains,picked up my 1911 which was 2 feet from me and stuck it to his face and told him to GET THE **** OUT AND DROP YOUR **** his eyes went WIDE and took off breaking all speed records,he dropped a ax along the way,he was a nano second away from being dead.
Being in the Mountains break ins happen ALL the time and have caught many a prowler lurking around.
I would suggest reading MAS AYOOB or watching the many vids on youtube,if you want just google him,the man will get you to THINK.
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  #53  
Old 02-21-2020, 5:50 PM
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Thanks for the responses guys. I think Iím gonna split the difference and do the 500. The 8 shot with 20 inch barrel that Big 5 carries is the one Iím looking at. I just wish turners has it as Iím planning on buying a couple of handguns there and itís be nice to do just one dros
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  #54  
Old 02-21-2020, 6:15 PM
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Good choice.
That is what I did with the 88,even with what I did to it all told was just under 300.
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  #55  
Old 02-21-2020, 6:17 PM
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That is a good choice! And I hope it works well for you.
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  #56  
Old 02-21-2020, 6:51 PM
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If you are worried about recoil get the reduced recoil 00 or #4 buckshot.
Personally I prefer the #4 they shred things. Ever seen a coyote shot with #4 probably the best way to kill them in one shot. Seen plenty shot with 00 and rifles and unless its a head shot they tend to live in agony.
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  #57  
Old 02-21-2020, 10:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smupser View Post
Thanks for the responses guys. I think I’m gonna split the difference and do the 500. The 8 shot with 20 inch barrel that Big 5 carries is the one I’m looking at. I just wish turners has it as I’m planning on buying a couple of handguns there and it’s be nice to do just one dros
You cannot buy 2 handguns with one DROS.
8 shot in 500 is not the best choice. Should you want to use the gun for hunting, clay shooting or such, you won't be able to get a barrel for it, when regular Mossberg has a huge selection of various barrels for any kind of hunting from the small upland game, waterfowl, and all the way to rifled barrels for big game hunting.
Another point, if you cannot eliminate the thread with 6 shots, you already dead and additional 2 shells would not make any difference
Think for the future options, don't limit them, let the door be open.


...

Last edited by Boarhuntor; 02-21-2020 at 11:15 PM..
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  #58  
Old 02-22-2020, 12:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boarhuntor View Post
Another point, if you cannot eliminate the thread with 6 shots, you already dead and additional 2 shells would not make any difference
...
This talking point gets repeated all the time but it is nonsense. I may never need more than one shot or 6 shots or whatever, but I'm not going to bet my life on some contrived rule like that. No one knows what type of threat(s) they might face and no one ever lost a gunfight by having too much ammo.
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  #59  
Old 02-22-2020, 12:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Bobby Ricigliano View Post
This talking point gets repeated all the time but it is nonsense.
1. If it was repeated all the time, it might be true, don't you think, and your single opinion might be nonsense?
2. How many shells did you need to eliminate your last home intruder, can you elaborate?
3. Opinions like buttholes, everyone has one, and if someone has different than yours, it does not mean it is wrong and you should disrespect it.
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  #60  
Old 02-22-2020, 6:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boarhuntor View Post
1. If it was repeated all the time, it might be true, don't you think, and your single opinion might be nonsense?
2. How many shells did you need to eliminate your last home intruder, can you elaborate?
3. Opinions like buttholes, everyone has one, and if someone has different than yours, it does not mean it is wrong and you should disrespect it.
Bobby is right or everyone would have Joe Biden's double barrel blasting it out the window and Judge Benitez would have ruled in favor of California's magazine capacity restrictions.
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  #61  
Old 02-22-2020, 7:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smupser View Post
Thanks for the responses guys. I think Iím gonna split the difference and do the 500. The 8 shot with 20 inch barrel that Big 5 carries is the one Iím looking at. I just wish turners has it as Iím planning on buying a couple of handguns there and itís be nice to do just one dros
See if Turner's will price match. Sportsman's Warehouse did last I checked.

I was facing your dilemma and finally went with an 88 7+1 for $199. I would have loved to have 930 but just couldn't justify that much money for something that would probably not do anything except take up space in my safe. I couldn't even justify the extra expense of the 500. btw, you CAN change the foregrip on an 88 to a 500 but then you might as well get a 500 in the first place.

Someone said the 88 safety is stiff but I have not noticed that on mine. If you plan on a pistol grip stock you'll hate the safety on the 500. My 88 action is a little stiff but I will smooth that out a bit. I put a Tru Glow front sight on, a mag mount rail with a light and I'm ready to go.
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  #62  
Old 02-22-2020, 8:23 AM
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Originally Posted by TMB 1 View Post
Less recoil mini has 6 00 buck shot vs 9 in 2 3/4" or 15 in 3", less shot means less recoil. shorter means it will hold more, so you get more shots with less recoil.
IME, the lack of recoil throws off the technique of using the impulse to assist in cycling the action so the gun is ready to fire as soon as the muzzle is back on target.
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  #63  
Old 02-22-2020, 9:10 AM
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Benelli m4 7+1 of 00.

It just feels good holding that thing.
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  #64  
Old 02-22-2020, 9:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boarhuntor View Post
1. If it was repeated all the time, it might be true, don't you think, and your single opinion might be nonsense?
2. How many shells did you need to eliminate your last home intruder, can you elaborate?
3. Opinions like buttholes, everyone has one, and if someone has different than yours, it does not mean it is wrong and you should disrespect it.
1. As I already stated, it may be the case that very few rounds may be needed. Or a lot. Or none. Who knows? FBI stats say 3 rounds in three seconds is the average gunfight. And yet, I doubt anyone is going to load only 3 rounds if the weapon can hold more. People sure seem to like shell carriers and extended magazine tubes as well. I wonder why if such devices are irrelevant?

2. The number of shells I needed to eliminate the last home intruder was zero. This is coincidentally the same number of shells I suspect you needed as well as all the other people who blow this hot air all over the internet.

You said unequivocally that 6 rounds are enough. I said I do not know how many rounds will be enough. That means YOU should be telling all of us about the number of rounds expended in your last shootout since you are the expert here. Since I donít know how many Iíd need, Iíd rather have a lot.

3. Indeed, opinions vary across the board. But your post did not read like an opinion, nor did you offer anything that would support your authoritative assertion. It was just a tiresome, rehashed talking point masquerading as a credible fact.
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  #65  
Old 02-22-2020, 9:38 AM
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Originally Posted by SnWnMe View Post
IME, the lack of recoil throws off the technique of using the impulse to assist in cycling the action so the gun is ready to fire as soon as the muzzle is back on target.
Some people just can't handle recoil.





The impulse of the recoil throws them off more than it assist them.
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  #66  
Old 02-22-2020, 10:10 AM
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The Remington 870 12 gauge has been a standard shotgun for hundreds of police agencies across the country for decades, and there have been not been any issues of it not working. I can't think of a better sales point that the above.

Anecdotally, I have owned about 5 870 shotguns and never had a problem with any of them. I have no experience with the other pump shotguns mentioned in this thread. My current home defense shotgun is a used Remington 870 12 guage Police Magnum, that I purchased off gunbroker.com for $250. If rust is a concern, then maintain your shotgun.
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  #67  
Old 02-22-2020, 10:51 AM
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The thing is with a long tube that holds a lot of rounds is its front heavy when fully loaded.
I like the way a 18 inch handles better balance for me that is,I have shot a 14 and 10 inch a LONG time ago there is a point of no return value at that lenght.
The Chi Com thing is a exception even with a 18 this gun is all steel and heavy barrel +THICK reciever handles really different.
Extra rounds? I took a old SKS chest rig folded it in half tied it off and it is easy to sling over your shoulder,each pouch holds 5 2.75 shells total of 50!
If you need more than 50 well you are in deep doo doo.
Yes I have 18,20,28,30 inch barrels and will add more as they pop up.
Maybe a 22 next?
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  #68  
Old 02-22-2020, 10:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyD View Post
The Remington 870 12 gauge has been a standard shotgun for hundreds of police agencies across the country for decades, and there have been not been any issues of it not working. I can't think of a better sales point that the above.

Anecdotally, I have owned about 5 870 shotguns and never had a problem with any of them. I have no experience with the other pump shotguns mentioned in this thread. My current home defense shotgun is a used Remington 870 12 guage Police Magnum, that I purchased off gunbroker.com for $250. If rust is a concern, then maintain your shotgun.
I picked up two ex-Utah HP on arf a year or two ago...$450 shipped. The guns were gone over by the Utah HP armorer prior to releasing the guns, and the seller was a good hs bud of the armorer. One was marked "POLICE" and the other is a WingMaster. Wood is great on both guns, and the price also included a Remington folding stock. Best thing was I got 2 great sg's for about was much as I'd pay for a Maverick/Mossberg or the current easy-rust cheap Remington.

I always expect a Mav/Moss recommendation when the "what should I get" sg thread appears. I'd suggest you can get a much better gun for the same $$$...check out an Ithaca 37, a High Standard pump, or a Winchester. My first and only Mossberg would have been the "before" picture in a lesson on removing machining burrs and the fit was sloppy to be nice about it. Remington's change in finish is not an improvement on the parkerizing on my 1187SP.
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  #69  
Old 02-22-2020, 11:09 AM
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My Mossberg is 50 years old,very well made no problems for 50 years.
The 88 dosnt have tooling marks but the internals are not polished like they used to,the 590A1 I looked at wasnt polished either and both actions had a hitch in the action.
I know the new 870s are supposed to have problems with quality control but the ones I have looked at seem to be fine.
If anything when in doubt buy the rack gun you are looking at and not trust the warehouse with your choice.
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  #70  
Old 02-22-2020, 11:20 AM
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I’ve had a mossberg 500 for 20 years with no problems.

My friend has a newer Remington 870 and it hates cheap Winchester and federal aluminium case shells. It jams up after only a couple rounds and won’t eject until it cools off. My Mossberg runs the same shells without issue.

I used to think the Remington was slightly better quality until I shot it. I’ve read there are fixes for it but that definitely made me shy away from the 870.
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Old 02-22-2020, 11:46 AM
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I still plan on getting a 870 for my collection,no collection is complete unless you have at the very least a Mossberg,Winchester,Remmington.
Of course I will have to get a Ithaca and a High Standered.
Any other models you guys want to add?
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  #72  
Old 02-22-2020, 12:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TMB 1 View Post
Some people just can't handle recoil.
The impulse of the recoil throws them off more than it assist them.
Once you do a Front Sight Tactical Shotgun class you will learn how to "Ride the Recoil" while cycling the action. This is an essential skill to be able to make the cycle times necessary to graduate the class. In the test it comes down to 2 targets in 1.7 seconds, 3 in 2.1 seconds and 4 in 2.7 seconds! This is not easy with a pump gun and even after 5 trips I can't get 4 every time with a pump gun. With my A5 it is just bang,bang,bang,bang with time to spare.

It always comes up that some like 870's and some like 500/590's. IMHO the 500-590 has got more going for it than the 870 does. I have two. The Military doesn't buy 870's they buy 590A1's for these reasons... I have seen many people with 870's in these classes and many have problems with operating the guns in an efficient manner.

The 870 has a raised tit on the cartridge lifter. This is there so the gun won't drop rounds out the port when cycled when turned on it's right side. This will come in handy next time you have to lay on your side under a car and run the gun,,, however it will get in your way when Ejection Port Loading the gun which is 50% of running the gun. Once any gun is empty you have a single shot gun and being able to load and fire it fast is a pretty essential skill or else you will be standing out in the open reloading the magazine instead of firing back.

The problem with this is that once the gun loosens up as soon as the slide bounces off the rear stop and starts forward the lifter immediately raises up and blocks the port so you can't get a round in. You can't just move the slide back and drop it, once it starts up it must go all the way up before it can go back down. The Mberg doesn't have this problem.

Also, and this applies to both guns, you can save yourself alot of grief by simply taking the guns apart and deburring all the internal parts. This cuts the break in time down by 90% and the gun will run much smoother from the start instead of 3-400 rounds down the road. Vaseline and 30 wt motor oil for lube is what is needed, don't use Frog Lube or any other Magic Spuge, it won't work any better, and a Qt of motor oil will last you for the rest of your life. I recommend Amsoil 20-50 Racing Oil! it's the best there is.

If you can operate a fine file and sandpaper you can do this. Taking the gun apart is not that hard and you need to completely disassemble it every so often to clean it anyway. 3-400 rounds is about time to clean it up. Instructions on how to disassemble is in the instruction book that comes with the gun or you can download off the Al Gore!

Once you are properly taught how to run a pump action shotgun you will start to realize how these are some of the most formidable weapons commonly in use.

There are a few things to do to upgrade the Mbergs. A Brownell's Safety Button, and Magpul Furniture, a Removable Sling, and Velcro Side Saddle, but the one thing you should try for when you buy it,,, is to get one with Rifle Sights! They make all the difference in the world and really improve your slug shooting.

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  #73  
Old 02-22-2020, 12:06 PM
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Originally Posted by -hanko View Post
I picked up two ex-Utah HP on arf a year or two ago...$450 shipped. The guns were gone over by the Utah HP armorer prior to releasing the guns, and the seller was a good hs bud of the armorer. One was marked "POLICE" and the other is a WingMaster. Wood is great on both guns, and the price also included a Remington folding stock. Best thing was I got 2 great sg's for about was much as I'd pay for a Maverick/Mossberg or the current easy-rust cheap Remington.

I always expect a Mav/Moss recommendation when the "what should I get" sg thread appears. I'd suggest you can get a much better gun for the same $$$...check out an Ithaca 37, a High Standard pump, or a Winchester. My first and only Mossberg would have been the "before" picture in a lesson on removing machining burrs and the fit was sloppy to be nice about it. Remington's change in finish is not an improvement on the parkerizing on my 1187SP.
I have a Wingmaster that is ex-Sacramento PD and it is a fantastic weapon. I gave it a good cleaning and refinished the wood furniture. Basic 4 shell tube and bead front sight with no other gadgetry besides a nylon velcro shell carrier on the stock. The action is unbelievably smooth and it shoots lights out. Best $200 I ever spent.
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Old 02-22-2020, 12:32 PM
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I just did a search on gunboker.com for "Remington 870 Police", and there are three pages of used shotguns, some for less than $200.
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Old 02-22-2020, 4:20 PM
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Originally Posted by W.R.Buchanan View Post
Once you do a Front Sight Tactical Shotgun class you will learn how to "Ride the Recoil" while cycling the action. This is an essential skill to be able to make the cycle times necessary to graduate the class. In the test it comes down to 2 targets in 1.7 seconds, 3 in 2.1 seconds and 4 in 2.7 seconds! This is not easy with a pump gun and even after 5 trips I can't get 4 every time with a pump gun. With my A5 it is just bang,bang,bang,bang with time to spare.

It always comes up that some like 870's and some like 500/590's. IMHO the 500-590 has got more going for it than the 870 does. I have two. The Military doesn't buy 870's they buy 590A1's for these reasons... I have seen many people with 870's in these classes and many have problems with operating the guns in an efficient manner.

The 870 has a raised tit on the cartridge lifter. This is there so the gun won't drop rounds out the port when cycled when turned on it's right side. This will come in handy next time you have to lay on your side under a car and run the gun,,, however it will get in your way when Ejection Port Loading the gun which is 50% of running the gun. Once any gun is empty you have a single shot gun and being able to load and fire it fast is a pretty essential skill or else you will be standing out in the open reloading the magazine instead of firing back.

The problem with this is that once the gun loosens up as soon as the slide bounces off the rear stop and starts forward the lifter immediately raises up and blocks the port so you can't get a round in. You can't just move the slide back and drop it, once it starts up it must go all the way up before it can go back down. The Mberg doesn't have this problem.

Also, and this applies to both guns, you can save yourself alot of grief by simply taking the guns apart and deburring all the internal parts. This cuts the break in time down by 90% and the gun will run much smoother from the start instead of 3-400 rounds down the road. Vaseline and 30 wt motor oil for lube is what is needed, don't use Frog Lube or any other Magic Spuge, it won't work any better, and a Qt of motor oil will last you for the rest of your life. I recommend Amsoil 20-50 Racing Oil! it's the best there is.

If you can operate a fine file and sandpaper you can do this. Taking the gun apart is not that hard and you need to completely disassemble it every so often to clean it anyway. 3-400 rounds is about time to clean it up. Instructions on how to disassemble is in the instruction book that comes with the gun or you can download off the Al Gore!

Once you are properly taught how to run a pump action shotgun you will start to realize how these are some of the most formidable weapons commonly in use.

There are a few things to do to upgrade the Mbergs. A Brownell's Safety Button, and Magpul Furniture, a Removable Sling, and Velcro Side Saddle, but the one thing you should try for when you buy it,,, is to get one with Rifle Sights! They make all the difference in the world and really improve your slug shooting.

Randy
Your class will do nothing for some people who just can not handle recoil, does not matter if it is a pump, a semi auto, a double barrel, a single shot, they just can't handle recoil.
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Old 02-22-2020, 6:33 PM
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I just did a search on gunboker.com for "Remington 870 Police", and there are three pages of used shotguns, some for less than $200.
So your saying I have to buy another shotgun?
I have been thinking of buying recievers and building my own from kit guns if I cant find what I want.
I like to take my guns apart new or used and clean them up all sorts of burrs in them sometimes.
Randy I like to use my EDs RED mix for project guns and the sometimes mass dunking of parts,soaking a Russian Makarov right now.
My BIL was on the ARMY shooting team years back and he HATED recoil but still shot well,he liked to use a high end pellet gun in the backyard with the trigger set so light a breath would set it off.
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Old 02-23-2020, 7:45 AM
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OP - can’t go wrong with the 500 (only thing better than that are old Wingmasters).
And for reference, the current Federal mini shells I have say 15 pellets of #4 buck at 1200 fps, which I assume will bounce off a denim jacket... /sarc
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Old 02-23-2020, 9:26 AM
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I hope it never comes to me having to use my self-defense shotgun because if I do someone will probably call out the SWAT team. It is a limited production pump 12ga. capable of bringing down very BIG bears. Talk about your over penetration. It's basically a .73 caliber big bore pump action rifle with the 600 grain ammo it is designed to shoot. Muzzle energy is 3850 ft/lbs. As a comparison the .338 Winchester Magnum firing a 225-grain bullet to velocities of 2,800 ft/s generate 3,918 ft⋅lbf. Not bad for an old 12 gauge slug gun.

Which is why I think a 20 gauge makes more sense, except for the price of the shells. But the Lee Loader is a great reloader and cheap. So much easier to readjust for a new load compared to a MEC. At least for me. Reloads for practice, commercial for defense. Youtube videos really shows how great the Lee rig is. Paul Harrell videos to show the effectiveness of 20 gauge.
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Old 02-23-2020, 9:57 AM
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W.R.Buchanan

...you can save yourself alot of grief by simply taking the guns apart and deburring all the internal parts. This cuts the break in time down by 90% and the gun will run much smoother from the start instead of 3-400 rounds down the road. Vaseline and 30 wt motor oil for lube is what is needed, don't use Frog Lube or any other Magic Spuge, it won't work any better, and a Qt of motor oil will last you for the rest of your life. I recommend Amsoil 20-50 Racing Oil! it's the best there is.

If you can operate a fine file and sandpaper you can do this. Taking the gun apart is not that hard and you need to completely disassemble it every so often to clean it anyway. 3-400 rounds is about time to clean it up. Instructions on how to disassemble is in the instruction book that comes with the gun or you can download off the Al Gore!

Once you are properly taught how to run a pump action shotgun you will start to realize how these are some of the most formidable weapons commonly in use.

There are a few things to do to upgrade the Mbergs. A Brownell's Safety Button, and Magpul Furniture, a Removable Sling, and Velcro Side Saddle, but the one thing you should try for when you buy it,,, is to get one with Rifle Sights! They make all the difference in the world and really improve your slug shooting.

Randy has always posted great advice and this is no different.

If you run a vintage Wingmaster (like I do, I have two) made before the later 1980s, you want it to have a FlexTab conversion kit in it. This will allow you to cycle the action to clear a (very rare) double-feed, making the 870 a near-perfectly-reliable combat shotgun.

The FlexTab conversion kit from AI&P/aippi runs +/- $100 but is worth every penny. It consists of a new bolt (with a new design firing pin spring) and a new flextab carrier. Fitting these parts will take 30 mins of your time if you're handy.

While slugs can be a one-shot stopper, I choose instead Hornady's Critical Defense, a high-velocity (it ain't fer plinkin') 8-pellet double-aught buck (.33 caliber lead ball) load that leaves the muzzle at 1600 fps.
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Old 02-23-2020, 10:47 AM
W.R.Buchanan W.R.Buchanan is offline
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Your class will do nothing for some people who just can not handle recoil, does not matter if it is a pump, a semi auto, a double barrel, a single shot, they just can't handle recoil.
Sir: Nothing could be farther from the truth!

Learning how to mount the gun is 90% of recoil control.

When I have a 5'2" 100 lb. woman standing next to me thruout 4 days of intensive shooting with 400+ rounds of various 12 ga ammo, shooting a stock M590A1!, and she is not whining or getting beat up, that tells me that anyone can learn how to,,, "Take the Recoil!"

Since she was paying attention during the class she was not getting beat up by the recoil because she had her cheek weld in place and was squared up behind the gun. All it took was a little coaching and she was good to go.

My first class I got the snot beat out of me, and I came home black and blue. I made changes to the gun and went back.

My second class I got the snot beat out of me again. Then I learned how to keep my cheek weld in place thru the recoil impulse and all of a sudden it stopped beating me. I still came home with bruises.

My third class was totally different. I had the gun Vang Comped, (which I promote heavily in the classes and let people shoot my gun) This changed the recoil impulse dramatically and I came home with no marks on me at all. It took exactly two shots to remember to get down on the cheek weld and get behind the gun to deal with the recoil.

I was shooting with only a Tee Shirt and Shorts on.

My forth class I took my Browning Auto 5 and had to learn how to get down and behind that new gun. It took 3 shots with that one to figure it out. NO marks or bruises came home with me.

Fifth class I shot both guns, no marks and I was shooting with only a Tee Shirt and Shorts on.

Guess what? You can learn how to do anything! But sometimes you actually need some help from a teacher, which will show you things you weren't born with, and move you along much faster.

Anyone who has shot shotguns for their entire life, and never gotten any instruction or training may be good, but I can assure that they can get better with some direct instruction.

If this was not true, nobody would go to a Skeet or Trap Clinic, nobody would go to any class at Front Sight or anywhere else because they would be set in their ways and not think there was any place they could improve.

They would also be stupid !!!

Front Sight runs 80,000 people a year thru their facility. Most everyone who shows up wants to improve their shooting skills, or they wouldn't be there.

Every shotgun class I've been to, (5 total) has been completely full.

You should try it, there alot more to this than just picking up a gun and pulling the trigger.

Randy

Last edited by W.R.Buchanan; 02-23-2020 at 10:53 AM..
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