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  #1  
Old 12-17-2019, 9:05 AM
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Default belted magnum and the Larry Willis die

Well I have had some good luck getting 4-5 loads out of my cases before they fail to eject. It might be time to get one of the Larry Willis collet/dies and see how much it improves the life of the cases.
Anyone here have experience to share? I have 3 different 300WM that I load for as well as a 7mm. Most of my brass is about 5x fired so I might just buy all new brass and start fresh.

The 300WM brass is all Hornady and the 7mm is all Federal. It is tempting to change from the Hornady brass to some of the Gunwerks which from what I have read, might be some of the best out there.

I dunno....
But here is a link to the collet/die I mentioned if you have not seen it yet.
http://www.larrywillis.com/index.html
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Old 12-17-2019, 9:45 AM
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Or maybe just toss them after 4-5 loads??
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  #3  
Old 12-17-2019, 10:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Divernhunter View Post
Or maybe just toss them after 4-5 loads??

I have thought of that but at the same time if a tool can keep them in spec safely, then why not give it a go. Just curious to see if anyone here has used one to see if it is indeed worth it or not.
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Old 12-17-2019, 12:20 PM
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Get. My 7mm WBY brass is too expensive to not get 20 loadings.

Just two extra loadings for 100 rds pays for the die.
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Old 12-18-2019, 4:45 AM
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Except using it is such a pain in the *** that it makes it worth it to toss the brass.
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Old 12-18-2019, 4:56 AM
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Iíve had one for years and canít imagine reloading belted mag cases without one. I use it every second firing. The process is a little different, and slower, but the brass comes out nearly perfect, and you have no worries about sticky bolt lift issues that absolutely will otherwise pop up.


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Old 12-18-2019, 5:00 AM
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Quote:
I have thought of that but at the same time if a tool can keep them in spec safely, then why not give it a go. Just curious to see if anyone here has used one to see if it is indeed worth it or not.
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And then I wonder: For years and years this question has appeared on one forum after another: and I ask you, are you promoting the collet die? Your post looks like a cut and paste.

And then there is his head space gage His head space gage is a dial indicator stand, problem; there is no need discussing the tool on a reloading forum because there are very few reloaders that know the difference. Most reloaders do not know the case does not have head space.

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Old 12-18-2019, 5:55 AM
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I use the Larry Willis die.
The trick to use that die is lubricant.
I use tapping fluid.
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Old 12-18-2019, 7:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fguffey View Post
And then I wonder: For years and years this question has appeared on one forum after another: and I ask you, are you promoting the collet die? Your post looks like a cut and paste.

And then there is his head space gage His head space gage is a dial indicator stand, problem; there is no need discussing the tool on a reloading forum because there are very few reloaders that know the difference. Most reloaders do not know the case does not have head space.

F. Guffey

Really??? Gimme a break dude. I'm asking a legit question and I wanted to hear from people that have used it. If you have not used one, please go away.
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Old 12-18-2019, 7:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by baih777 View Post
I use the Larry Willis die.
The trick to use that die is lubricant.
I use tapping fluid.
Tapping fluid? Never thought of that but it totally make sense.
I shoot my 300WM's more than any of my other rifles and it would be nice to help the brass last longer. My long range loads are a bit hot but not over pressure limits and that load I'm lucky to get 3 firings from the brass. My hunting loads for my 2 other rifles can go 4 or 5 times.
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Old 12-18-2019, 8:17 AM
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Lesson 1. Ignore fguffey.

Belted magnums have no headspace? Right.
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Old 12-18-2019, 8:33 AM
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Quote:
Really??? Gimme a break dude. I'm asking a legit question and I wanted to hear from people that have used it. If you have not used one, please go away.
I have two lathes with collets and then there is the 'go away thing'. I have never gotten into a conversation with a reloader on a reloading forum that could get serious about discussing reloading. Most want to get all giggly about L. Willis and none of them has a clue as to why the magnum case requires a reduction in the diameter of the case ahead to the belt.

Used one? I have never needed one, it has always been someone else that had the problem. Again, they were not on the Internet, one was building wildcat type bench rester rifles. Cases for his new creation were expensive and had to be formed 'in the beginning'.

Anyhow I put together a box of tools and components after I made sure I could form the cases. I went through 480 belted cases, all he thought he needed was 'the other' #4 shell holder for magnums cases.

He did not ask me to go away because he knew I was the only one that could help him. He had 3 lathes with collets but that was not the problem.

F. Guffey

Last edited by fguffey; 12-18-2019 at 8:35 AM..
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  #13  
Old 12-18-2019, 8:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fguffey View Post
I have two lathes with collets and then there is the 'go away thing'. I have never gotten into a conversation with a reloader on a reloading forum that could get serious about discussing reloading. Most want to get all giggly about L. Willis and none of them has a clue as to why the magnum case requires a reduction in the diameter of the case ahead to the belt.

Used one? I have never needed one, it has always been someone else that had the problem. Again, they were not on the Internet, one was building wildcat type bench rester rifles. Cases for his new creation were expensive and had to be formed 'in the beginning'.

Anyhow I put together a box of tools and components after I made sure I could form the cases. I went through 480 belted cases, all he thought he needed was 'the other' #4 shell holder for magnums cases.

He did not ask me to go away because he knew I was the only one that could help him. He had 3 lathes with collets but that was not the problem.

F. Guffey

You accused me of being in with this company to promote it. What's up with that?
I just asked a simple question and asked for those with experience with this tool to reply if they would like. Then you chime in with a smartass remark.
Maybe you're just too awesome and us lesser loaders should just give up and buy from BassPro.
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Old 12-18-2019, 10:06 AM
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I had a Larry Willis die, but the amount of work I had to put in made me buy a Casepro roll sizer.
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Old 12-18-2019, 10:16 AM
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Quote:
And then I wonder: For years and years this question has appeared on one forum after another: and I ask you, are you promoting the collet die? Your post looks like a cut and paste.
I wonder, after that I asked you,
Quote:
are you promoting the collet die
? and then your voice goes up 3 octaves. The answer is yes or no.

It was not my intension to miss you on all the other points.

F. Guffey
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  #16  
Old 12-18-2019, 12:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fguffey View Post
I wonder, after that I asked you,
? and then your voice goes up 3 octaves. The answer is yes or no.

It was not my intension to miss you on all the other points.

F. Guffey

Looking around for solutions, I have read your rhetorical posts all over the web on this topic and frankly you just think you are the best ever and no one else knows anything.
I did this, I have that, I, I, I, I......

https://thefiringline.com/forums/sho...58&postcount=7

What is your boner against Larry Willis? Looks like you are the one cutting and pasting... You sound like a broken record. Everyone is in with Larry and promoting his business... Give it a break dude! Get over yourself!

https://thefiringline.com/forums/sho...2&postcount=11

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...=1#post3153276


That's enough time wasted for the day....
Thank you for all who have contributed to my question that caused me to start this post. it is much appreciated.
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Old 12-18-2019, 6:45 PM
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I have had a couple of the Larry Willis dies and when it comes to reloading I have forgotten more than ole Franky Guffey has ever known or dreamed of knowing.
I will answer any question he cares to ponder if he can answer my questions but that will never happen. It has been tried many times.
The area right in front of the belt will grow to 0.511 inches and when it does you have 4 options.
You can toss the brass.
You can file down the brass
You can use the Larry Willis die
Or you can grind the bottom of the die to remove the radius.
Most choose not to grind the die because belted cases have a 0.022 allowable variation direct from Saami. If you grind the die you might overly bump the shoulder something Franky baby readily admits he can't do and that will lead to early casehead separation.
The pictures show the setup but what nobody tells you is the correct order and why. I had this conversation with Mr Willis on benchrest central at least a decade ago.
When you size the area in front of the belt your cases will grow about 0.001 in length between the casehead and the shoulder if your using a gizzy or a comparator.
A gizzy is simply a short section of barrel that your reamer is run into so you can take measurements. It works better than a hollow comparator because it has lands in it which are needed for proper seating depth.
In a perfect world the case never moves in the chamber and the bulge never forms
In reality new brass has to fit all guns so it slides all around in the chamber and when fired the area in front if the belt bulges. When you size it the die never contacts the belt so it never gets sized back down. After repeated firing the brass becomes sticky in the chamber and your options are limited to those listed above.
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  #18  
Old 12-18-2019, 7:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LynnJr View Post


I have had a couple of the Larry Willis dies and when it comes to reloading I have forgotten more than ole Franky Guffey has ever known or dreamed of knowing.
I will answer any question he cares to ponder if he can answer my questions but that will never happen. It has been tried many times.
The area right in front of the belt will grow to 0.511 inches and when it does you have 4 options.
You can toss the brass.
You can file down the brass
You can use the Larry Willis die
Or you can grind the bottom of the die to remove the radius.
Most choose not to grind the die because belted cases have a 0.022 allowable variation direct from Saami. If you grind the die you might overly bump the shoulder something Franky baby readily admits he can't do and that will lead to early casehead separation.
The pictures show the setup but what nobody tells you is the correct order and why. I had this conversation with Mr Willis on benchrest central at least a decade ago.
When you size the area in front of the belt your cases will grow about 0.001 in length between the casehead and the shoulder if your using a gizzy or a comparator.
A gizzy is simply a short section of barrel that your reamer is run into so you can take measurements. It works better than a hollow comparator because it has lands in it which are needed for proper seating depth.
In a perfect world the case never moves in the chamber and the bulge never forms
In reality new brass has to fit all guns so it slides all around in the chamber and when fired the area in front if the belt bulges. When you size it the die never contacts the belt so it never gets sized back down. After repeated firing the brass becomes sticky in the chamber and your options are limited to those listed above.


Thank you for that! That explication is exactly what I was looking for. I just use standard Lee dies and measure before and after resizing. But now Iím 4-5 reloads in and the brass is sticking horrifically in the chamber. To the point I didnít use that rifle for hunting this season. Investing in the Larry Wilson unit is looking like my best and only option other than buying new brass. Thanks!
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Old 12-18-2019, 8:06 PM
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Thanks for those pics, Lynn. I'll keep this die in mind once I start shooting my 7mm.

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Old 12-19-2019, 3:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MattyMX View Post
Thank you for that! That explication is exactly what I was looking for. I just use standard Lee dies and measure before and after resizing. But now Iím 4-5 reloads in and the brass is sticking horrifically in the chamber. To the point I didnít use that rifle for hunting this season. Investing in the Larry Wilson unit is looking like my best and only option other than buying new brass. Thanks!


I have used my friends die to resize 7mm Rem Mag. This collet die adds another step to your reloading process, but can save your brass. You need a big press like a Rock Chucker or similar to get good results with the collet die. Yes, lube the collet to make it easier. My friend uses white lithium grease, lightest coat possible.


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Old 12-19-2019, 7:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by McGuiver View Post
I have used my friends die to resize 7mm Rem Mag. This collet die adds another step to your reloading process, but can save your brass. You need a big press like a Rock Chucker or similar to get good results with the collet die. Yes, lube the collet to make it easier. My friend uses white lithium grease, lightest coat possible.


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Thanks for that info. I use a Hornady single stage press for my larger caliber and Lee dies. Yes it adds another step but I donít usually do more than 50 at a time. But then again it seems harder these days to get the time to load since I changed careers 9 months ago.
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Old 12-19-2019, 1:30 PM
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My primary hunting rifle is a .300 Win Mag. and I reload for it. I have been using a Willis die for many years. I think Lynn Jr. nailed it. I don't believe the Willis die will prevent case head separation. I have considered the die to shrink belted cases so that they will not stick in the chamber.
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Old 12-19-2019, 9:22 PM
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Another +1 for the Willis die. I don't know how anyone else can reload for 300wm without it.
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Old 12-20-2019, 12:00 AM
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How do you know when your belted magnum cases are worn out?

I mean other than the obvious signs of cracks and the primer pocket no longer hold a primer firmly.

I've been loading the Military rifle cases for years, and when my loads maintain
'Minute-of-10-Ring' I haven't thus far worried about case longevity until now.
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Old 12-20-2019, 5:41 PM
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Difficult extraction or measure the case diameter above the belt. Getting close to 0.511 means trouble.
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Old 12-20-2019, 5:54 PM
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Default belted magnum and the Larry Willis die

Another Willis Die User.

Last edited by Mesa Defense; 12-22-2019 at 4:44 PM..
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Old 01-08-2020, 10:39 AM
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And then there are elements of a post, This post started with all of the lements of an add for L. Willis.

There is a variation: The other add starts out with the poster claiming he heard about some kind of a die that is used on Mangrum cases when the bolt will not close.

F. Guffey
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Old 01-08-2020, 10:52 AM
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Quote:
Difficult extraction or measure the case diameter above the belt. Getting close to 0.511 means trouble.
Again, a builder of bench rester rifles build wildcats and had a shortage of cases. He called me for help; I started with 480 magnum cases. I could have used collets in a lathe to reduce the diameter of the case infront of the belt but to do that would mean we would be ignoring all the other problems.

The old man wanted to know why the cases increased in diameter ahead of the belt, that was 40 cases out of the 480 cases I started with.

And then he died, there is a local club that has a group of shooters that own one of his rifle, they meet ever summer and have a competition shootout to determine the most accurate rifle.

F. Guffey
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Old 01-21-2020, 4:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fguffey View Post
Again, a builder of bench rester rifles build wildcats and had a shortage of cases. He called me for help; I started with 480 magnum cases. I could have used collets in a lathe to reduce the diameter of the case infront of the belt but to do that would mean we would be ignoring all the other problems.

The old man wanted to know why the cases increased in diameter ahead of the belt, that was 40 cases out of the 480 cases I started with.

And then he died, there is a local club that has a group of shooters that own one of his rifle, they meet ever summer and have a competition shootout to determine the most accurate rifle.

F. Guffey
No builder of Benchrest rifles has ever sought out your advice on Magnum cases.
You meant to say a guy who built a rifle that at one time rested itself on a bench wanted some free brass.

And he had to be real old if he didn't know that cases grow in diameter after firing. Alzheimer's is no laughing matter

And the Elmer Fudd memorial match is a hoot.
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Old 01-21-2020, 7:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LynnJr View Post
No builder of Benchrest rifles has ever sought out your advice on Magnum cases.
You meant to say a guy who built a rifle that at one time rested itself on a bench wanted some free brass.

And he had to be real old if he didn't know that cases grow in diameter after firing. Alzheimer's is no laughing matter

And the Elmer Fudd memorial match is a hoot.
I dunno. We often give kids tasks to get them out of our hair. Doesn't mean one actually needs the task done.
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Old 02-21-2020, 11:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LynnJr View Post


I have had a couple of the Larry Willis dies and when it comes to reloading I have forgotten more than ole Franky Guffey has ever known or dreamed of knowing.
I will answer any question he cares to ponder if he can answer my questions but that will never happen. It has been tried many times.
The area right in front of the belt will grow to 0.511 inches and when it does you have 4 options.
You can toss the brass.
You can file down the brass
You can use the Larry Willis die
Or you can grind the bottom of the die to remove the radius.
Most choose not to grind the die because belted cases have a 0.022 allowable variation direct from Saami. If you grind the die you might overly bump the shoulder something Franky baby readily admits he can't do and that will lead to early casehead separation.
The pictures show the setup but what nobody tells you is the correct order and why. I had this conversation with Mr Willis on benchrest central at least a decade ago.
When you size the area in front of the belt your cases will grow about 0.001 in length between the casehead and the shoulder if your using a gizzy or a comparator.
A gizzy is simply a short section of barrel that your reamer is run into so you can take measurements. It works better than a hollow comparator because it has lands in it which are needed for proper seating depth.
In a perfect world the case never moves in the chamber and the bulge never forms
In reality new brass has to fit all guns so it slides all around in the chamber and when fired the area in front if the belt bulges. When you size it the die never contacts the belt so it never gets sized back down. After repeated firing the brass becomes sticky in the chamber and your options are limited to those listed above.
Thank you for the informative write up. It's nice when people are here to help and have good info. I just started loading 300 win mag and will be investing in one of these
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