Calguns.net  

Home My iTrader Join the NRA Donate to CGSSA Sponsors CGN Google Search
CA Semiauto Ban(AW)ID Flowchart CA Handgun Ban ID Flowchart CA Shotgun Ban ID Flowchart
Go Back   Calguns.net > INTERESTS AND ACTIVITIES > Ammo and Reloading
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read

Ammo and Reloading Factory Ammunition, Reloading, Components, Load Data and more.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 08-28-2019, 5:57 AM
SwageMeister SwageMeister is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 62
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default I want to reload a good low recoil/low noise 12 gauge round,

Has anyone come close to duplicating Winchester AA low recoil/low noise rounds?

https://winchester.com/Products/Ammu...ell/AA/AA12FL8

It uses 26 grams of shot which works out to about .9 ounces. I don't have a .9 charge bar, but I think I could get away with 1oz or just individually weigh the charge rather than going by volume. The big question for me is the minimum dram equivalent powder charge and the type of wad to use. As I understand it, a 3 dram smokeless powder equivalent is enough to to send 1-1/4 oz of shot out the barrel at 1200fps. Could I just take a load that produces that velocity and cut the powder charge by two thirds?
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 08-28-2019, 6:14 AM
Bisley Bisley is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Posts: 168
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

These are a LOT less expensive than an emergency room deductible. Plus you are set for life. All my MEC presses have one. But it's your face & hands, not mine....

https://www.grafs.com/retail/catalog...roductId/28903
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 08-29-2019, 4:30 AM
Cheep Cheep is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Too close to the border!
Posts: 1,175
iTrader: 71 / 100%
Default

You need to follow a published load and use the exact components. When reloading for shotgun, you can't just mix some components and call it good as you may have catastrophic results.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by NOMADCHRIS View Post
your asking a question about asking a question ??? just ask the damn question!!!
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 08-29-2019, 4:53 AM
BigBronco's Avatar
BigBronco BigBronco is offline
CGSSA Specialist
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Off my meds!
Posts: 6,169
iTrader: 165 / 100%
Blog Entries: 2
Default

I would start by contacting Ballistic Products, If any one knows shot shell reloading they do.

The Winchester AA12L wad is for 7/8oz or .875oz could easily round that up to .9 oz

This data for a 7/8oz load is from the Winchester site.
Powder: Hodgdon Internat'l
Grains:16.0
Primer: Win. 209
Wad: BP Compact Euro.


8,400 PSI
1,180 FPS
__________________
"Life is a long song" Jethro Tull

Last edited by BigBronco; 08-29-2019 at 5:03 AM..
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 08-29-2019, 5:01 AM
Mayor McRifle's Avatar
Mayor McRifle Mayor McRifle is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Central Valley
Posts: 6,607
iTrader: 14 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheep View Post
You need to follow a published load and use the exact components. When reloading for shotgun, you can't just mix some components and call it good as you may have catastrophic results.
Is this just FUD or can you cite any specific examples of “catastrophic results” occurring as a result of substituting quality components in a published load?
__________________
Anchors Aweigh

Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 08-29-2019, 8:33 AM
beetle's Avatar
beetle beetle is offline
The Clip guy
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 1,580
iTrader: 56 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mayor McRifle View Post
Is this just FUD or can you cite any specific examples of “catastrophic results” occurring as a result of substituting quality components in a published load?
i don't know about catastrophic, but it can certainly be unsafe depending on the recipe and what you are substituting.

max saami spec for 12g shotgun barrels is 11,500PSI. there are plenty of recipes that right are on the edge of that. for example:

1 1/8 oz lead shot, 19.2g of titewad, fed 12S3 wad, fed 209A primer, fed gold medal hull = 1200 FPS at 11,200 PSI

now what would happen if you "substituted" a tapered hull for the straight wall gold medal hull? you would most certainly be over 11,500 PSI. would it be catastrophic? unknown, but it is over spec.

other substitutions to be careful of -- substituting fed 209A primers in recipes that call for winchester or remington primers. Fed 209A are hotter primers and typically cause more pressure with all other components remaining the same.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 08-29-2019, 9:30 PM
Thefeeder Thefeeder is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 4,978
iTrader: 33 / 97%
Default ><

The low recoil AA's can be reloaded to the same specs
26gr 980fps

Recipe can be found here using AA hulls
https://www.hodgdonreloading.com/data/shotgun

Get a charge bar that is more versatile....universal, or Texen if you are going to load different recopies, powders, shot weight....so much easier and cost effective in the long run

Universal charge bars are on all my MEC's

Last edited by Thefeeder; 08-29-2019 at 9:33 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 08-30-2019, 4:31 PM
beetle's Avatar
beetle beetle is offline
The Clip guy
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 1,580
iTrader: 56 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thefeeder View Post
The low recoil AA's can be reloaded to the same specs
26gr 980fps

Recipe can be found here using AA hulls
https://www.hodgdonreloading.com/data/shotgun

Get a charge bar that is more versatile....universal, or Texen if you are going to load different recopies, powders, shot weight....so much easier and cost effective in the long run

Universal charge bars are on all my MEC's
the only thing is that I don't think WAALite has been available for quite some time.....
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 08-30-2019, 9:31 PM
Thefeeder Thefeeder is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 4,978
iTrader: 33 / 97%
Default ><

There goes plan A ....plan B, pick a 7/8oz load going 1050
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 08-31-2019, 12:15 AM
DueceMcGurk's Avatar
DueceMcGurk DueceMcGurk is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: North OC
Posts: 389
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Default

Google E3 light loads for 12 ga.
__________________
California Silver Shooters member
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 08-31-2019, 1:21 PM
JagerDog's Avatar
JagerDog JagerDog is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: South SF Bay Area
Posts: 9,457
iTrader: 21 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SwageMeister View Post
Has anyone come close to duplicating Winchester AA low recoil/low noise rounds?

https://winchester.com/Products/Ammu...ell/AA/AA12FL8

It uses 26 grams of shot which works out to about .9 ounces. I don't have a .9 charge bar, but I think I could get away with 1oz or just individually weigh the charge rather than going by volume. The big question for me is the minimum dram equivalent powder charge and the type of wad to use. As I understand it, a 3 dram smokeless powder equivalent is enough to to send 1-1/4 oz of shot out the barrel at 1200fps. Could I just take a load that produces that velocity and cut the powder charge by two thirds?
Wrong approach. As Feeder says, 7/8 (0.875) loads as your starting point.

3 dram (equivalent) is 1-1/8 oz at 1200 fps

Winchester AA L/Claybuster clone (gray/silver) wad.
__________________
You know it's cold outside when the socialists have their hands in their own pockets



#Blackolivesmatter
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 09-01-2019, 2:09 AM
Cheep Cheep is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Too close to the border!
Posts: 1,175
iTrader: 71 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mayor McRifle View Post
Is this just FUD or can you cite any specific examples of “catastrophic results” occurring as a result of substituting quality components in a published load?
I don't have examples for you. If you look in the manuals they show how substituting components increase pressures beyond safe levels. I wouldn't want to experiment with this next to my face.
Just be safe.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by NOMADCHRIS View Post
your asking a question about asking a question ??? just ask the damn question!!!
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 09-01-2019, 9:17 AM
JagerDog's Avatar
JagerDog JagerDog is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: South SF Bay Area
Posts: 9,457
iTrader: 21 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheep View Post
You need to follow a published load and use the exact components. When reloading for shotgun, you can't just mix some components and call it good as you may have catastrophic results.
Yes and no. There's substitutions that are deemed safe and subs that can go sideways. Other subs (like what OP suggested) are more likely to result in poor performance.

You'd want a powder designated for light payloads. You'd want a wad that gives proper stack height.

You can pretty much take any published load and reduce payload (subbing proper wad) and/or powder charge and be safe. Go too far and poor performance results. There's primers that are pretty much safe to sub and those that aren't. Best to start out with something close which is published and stick to reducing payload or charge. Plenty of 7/8 loads published. There's 3/4oz as well.

Prolly the biggest caution with reducing loads is getting a wad stuck in a barrel. That WILL result in catastrophy. Shotguns are pretty strong. Barrel obstruction or grabbing the wrong powder (say red dot when unique was called for) are the common culprits of kabooms.

Don't know about report as I've never loaded toward or tried to reduce report. Longshot is affectionately called "loudshot", but it's used in what would be high performance heavy loads which would tend to produce more report anyways. It would be greatly inappropriate for the OP's goal anyways.
__________________
You know it's cold outside when the socialists have their hands in their own pockets



#Blackolivesmatter
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 09-05-2019, 11:26 AM
SwageMeister SwageMeister is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 62
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thefeeder View Post
The low recoil AA's can be reloaded to the same specs
26gr 980fps

Recipe can be found here using AA hulls
https://www.hodgdonreloading.com/data/shotgun

Get a charge bar that is more versatile....universal, or Texen if you are going to load different recopies, powders, shot weight....so much easier and cost effective in the long run

Universal charge bars are on all my MEC's
This was exactly what I was looking for. Thanks.

Per the site, I can dupe the load using:
WAALite
Win. 209
WAA12SL
12.0
5,600 PSI
980

Going to put in for a new charge bar.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 09-05-2019, 11:40 AM
SwageMeister SwageMeister is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 62
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Looks like Winchester AA Lite has been discontinued by Hodgdson. Wonder they're using instead? In any event, I can search for similar specs on the other companies' loading charts, starting with psi.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 09-05-2019, 5:18 PM
JagerDog's Avatar
JagerDog JagerDog is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: South SF Bay Area
Posts: 9,457
iTrader: 21 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SwageMeister View Post
Looks like Winchester AA Lite has been discontinued by Hodgdson. Wonder they're using instead? In any event, I can search for similar specs on the other companies' loading charts, starting with psi.
Alliant SuperLite is what friends use for 3/4 oz loads. Should be quite similar.
__________________
You know it's cold outside when the socialists have their hands in their own pockets



#Blackolivesmatter
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 09-05-2019, 6:31 PM
beetle's Avatar
beetle beetle is offline
The Clip guy
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 1,580
iTrader: 56 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JagerDog View Post
Alliant SuperLite is what friends use for 3/4 oz loads. Should be quite similar.
Extra Lite

yes that would be a good powder to use for this purpose, or Vector A24 which being a bulky powder might help with stack height issues.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 7:34 AM.




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Proudly hosted by GeoVario the Premier 2A host.
Calguns.net, the 'Calguns' name and all associated variants and logos are ® Trademark and © Copyright 2002-2018, Calguns.net an Incorporated Company All Rights Reserved.
Calguns.net and The Calguns Foundation have no affiliation and are in no way related to each other.
All opinions, statements and remarks made by Calguns.net on this web site and elsewhere are solely attributable to Calguns.net.