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  #1  
Old 09-12-2019, 9:55 PM
Geofois Geofois is offline
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Default Gonna start reloading 357 mag with W231 and spp for plinking

Hi guys,

So I've googled and see people use w231 but it's not the ideal powder. I happen to have some but will probably buy another powder but for now I'll use it up. I've read w231 doesn't need magnum primers. What is a good bullet weight for plinking? I see a lot of people are using 158gr but would 140gr be better for plinking? I'll probably see if anyone is selling some powder, bullets, and cases etc.. I already have the dies. Thanks guys
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  #2  
Old 09-12-2019, 10:15 PM
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For plinking? Whatever is on sale.
For 357 plinking, I actually shoot .38 Specials.
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Old 09-12-2019, 10:22 PM
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I was thinking the same thing for plinking, but what do you think about the "ring" I think that is from build up using a shorter cartridge? I have a 38spl and my friend just got a 357 and wants me to buy some 357 brass for him. Is there any point to even buy the brass or should I just get 38 brass? But if I'm going to buy brass should I just get the 357 brass since I can load it for plinking or for actual 357 magnum loads? Do you think 140-158gr is fine for plinking or is 125-158gr just fine and whatever is cheap?
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Old 09-12-2019, 10:25 PM
Sig so sour of ca Sig so sour of ca is offline
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Up your load by 10% for 38 loads in 357.

The ring hasn't been an issue, I just run some chore boy on a brush through my cylinder and sone kroil and hoppes.

I usually only shoot 158 lrn or SWC from Brazos.
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Old 09-12-2019, 11:03 PM
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"The Ring' is more often then not the result of the hard crayon type bullet lube
build up that became popular in the mid 1980s. It doesn't scrub out very easily.

I didn't believe it either until someone who knew better showed me a glob dark burnt
blue lead shards that were scraped out with a Lewis Lead Removal tool.
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Old 09-13-2019, 1:39 AM
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Buy .357 brass, 158 gr projectiles, and use win 231 for plinking, H110 for full power (grab a lb just to have).

16gr of 110 will get the magnum power but have to use Magnum Small Pistol Primers.
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Old 09-13-2019, 7:43 AM
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Good idea, use the 231 for the blaster ammo and get some h110 when you want to really liven things up. H110 is fantastic and so versatile.

I use 160gr for 38spl and 125gr for 357mag. For me magnum cartridges are purely for fun so light projo + more powder = more fun!

About the magnum primers, I go through a few 8# jugs of H110 a year and I have never needed a magnum primer. Never had a problem with loading 14gr in 30 carbine to 35.5gr in 50ae and all the stuff in between. Just mentioning my experience. So try a handful of standard primers and see what happens. Let us know how it goes!

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Old 09-13-2019, 8:22 AM
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But 231 is capable of making some warm 231 loads. H110 can make some real dramatic ammo but may not be so pleasurable to shoot at the same time. Depends on how far you want to take it. Hodgdon manual has 125gr loads topping out around 1500fps with 231 and 1999fps with H110. For plinking I don't want to blast that 2k fps load, it'd be fun and the fire would be awesome, but doesn't sound plesant. Give developing with 231 a shot and move on to h110 if you decide you need more juice.

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Old 09-13-2019, 9:34 AM
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I'll see if anyone has some bullets for sale and some cases. I've got the cases lined up from Mr Dooder =)
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Old 09-13-2019, 11:18 AM
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My favorite plinking load for my 357 is 3.3gr Bullseye, 38 special case, 148gr HBWC or WC seated to 1.37 OAL.
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  #11  
Old 09-13-2019, 12:52 PM
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I see on Everglades 1000 fmj bullets 125gr for $99. They're just RN. They have plated FP 1000 for $89. Someone pointed out the red coated bullets for a great price also like $90 for 1000 125gr. Anyone have a preference FMJ vs Plated vs Red coated vs hi-tek coated? The plated on Everglades max fps recommended is 1200, on another site they said their plating was thicker and max was 1400 if that helps determine.

Last edited by Geofois; 09-13-2019 at 1:58 PM..
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  #12  
Old 09-13-2019, 2:30 PM
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My favorite plinking round for .38spl
5.0gr W231 in .357 magnum brass case, 125gr Hornady XTP, with a magnum primer.
Easy shooting, been loading these for many many years.
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  #13  
Old 09-13-2019, 2:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 357magnum View Post
My favorite plinking round for .38spl
5.0gr W231 in .357 magnum brass case, 125gr Hornady XTP, with a magnum primer.
Easy shooting, been loading these for many many years.
Do you shoot it in your .38spl? I imagine the magnum case fits fine in the 38. Would you need to go 5.5gr in a 38 case to have the same fps? Wonder if the pressure would be a lot higher. Maybe my thinking is way off.
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Old 09-13-2019, 2:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dooder View Post
Good idea, use the 231 for the blaster ammo and get some h110 when you want to really liven things up. H110 is fantastic and so versatile.

I use 160gr for 38spl and 125gr for 357mag. For me magnum cartridges are purely for fun so light projo + more powder = more fun!

About the magnum primers, I go through a few 8# jugs of H110 a year and I have never needed a magnum primer. Never had a problem with loading 14gr in 30 carbine to 35.5gr in 50ae and all the stuff in between. Just mentioning my experience. So try a handful of standard primers and see what happens. Let us know how it goes!

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Do you ever shoot out in colder weather? I had some cases with standard primers and velocities were getting erratic when it got below freezing. Even had a squib where the bullet got stuck in the barrel with a lot of unburned powder right behind it.

C


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  #15  
Old 09-13-2019, 4:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by croue View Post
Do you ever shoot out in colder weather? I had some cases with standard primers and velocities were getting erratic when it got below freezing. Even had a squib where the bullet got stuck in the barrel with a lot of unburned powder right behind it.

C


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Fortunately no. The temps out here in LA during the coldest of winter days is rarely below 50°. That's good to know about the adverse effects of the cold weather on primers though. With those temperatures I would worry about the temperature sensitivity of the powder especially since some powders have inverse sensitivity. I see postings of H110 being reduced below min causing squibs and lodged bullets too.
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Old 09-13-2019, 4:46 PM
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I think the primer was fine. The H110 is sensitive to cold and reduced loading though. I was surprised by the squib. But looking back- I was chronoing and saw the variations before that. Probably should have anticipated it rather than thinking my chrono or something else was to blame.

Love H110. But won’t shoot without magnum primers ever again. And probably not in the cold again either.


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  #17  
Old 09-13-2019, 5:48 PM
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Has anyone compared WSP with WSPM? I like to switch to WSP primer using power pistol powder (relatively fast burn). My lightened revolver cannot fire WSPM reliably. Is this a good idea? Should I increase powder slightly if regular primer is used?


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Old 09-13-2019, 6:25 PM
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Hey OP exercise a lot of care to not double load that 357 case if you are using W231. Do not get distracted.
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Old 09-13-2019, 7:16 PM
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I'll probably tare the case then drop and weigh again to make sure. Thanks. That seems to be the most important thing to do is make sure I don't pull the trigger on a grenade =/
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Old 09-13-2019, 7:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jasonz View Post
Has anyone compared WSP with WSPM? I like to switch to WSP primer using power pistol powder (relatively fast burn). My lightened revolver cannot fire WSPM reliably. Is this a good idea? Should I increase powder slightly if regular primer is used?


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Try Federals. Federals are the most sensitive. General rule is that if your revo doesn't light federals then you've taken it too far.

The primer cups are not different from standard to magnum. Just the amount of heat is different. I've chronod a lot and the difference in performance is an average of 25fps faster with mag primers. So I dropped 0.1gr and it evened out pretty well.

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Last edited by Dooder; 09-13-2019 at 7:59 PM..
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Old 09-13-2019, 8:25 PM
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Default Gonna start reloading 357 mag with W231 and spp for plinking

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dooder View Post
Try Federals. Federals are the most sensitive. General rule is that if your revo doesn't light federals then you've taken it too far.

The primer cups are not different from standard to magnum. Just the amount of heat is different. I've chronod a lot and the difference in performance is an average of 25fps faster with mag primers. So I dropped 0.1gr and it evened out pretty well.

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Update: I loaded 30 rounds using the same load with Federal primers (regular). 100% ignition. No appreciable difference in POI and accuracy. No pressure sign with primer flattening. I can already feel the difference in priming stage. Federal goes in smoothly. Winchester takes much more effort, and has 10-15% failure rate.


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Last edited by Jasonz; 09-15-2019 at 10:05 AM..
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Old 09-13-2019, 9:17 PM
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Any Federal pistol primer throws a hotter spark when compared to Winchester primer.

Tightgroup powder is less sensitive to ambient temperatures. Cowboy Action Shooters know a lot about this powder.

W231 pressure is up when ambient temperature is up. 1980s IPSC Reno group will attest this this. Many NV
reloader developed major power factor 45acp Load in March and retested in July for the big shooting match.

Zero margin for error factor using W231 for magnum loads. Not recommended.

Magnum Primers are specifically mentioned in many if not all of 70s & 80s reloading manuals I use.
Magnum primers have a harder cup as compared to standard primers.

It is the Law in 13 States to only use 158 to 170 grain bullets for .38 Special unless, you shoot 148 HBWCs in a PPC Match.

Last edited by hambam105; 09-13-2019 at 9:20 PM..
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Old 09-13-2019, 10:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geofois View Post
Do you shoot it in your .38spl? I imagine the magnum case fits fine in the 38. Would you need to go 5.5gr in a 38 case to have the same fps? Wonder if the pressure would be a lot higher. Maybe my thinking is way off.
The rounds I posted are for a .357 magnum revolver, hence the .357 magnum brass case.
For a .38spl revolver - .38spl brass case with 4.4gr W231, Hornady 125gr XTP, magnum primer.
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Old 09-13-2019, 10:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hambam105 View Post
Magnum Primers are specifically mentioned in many if not all of 70s & 80s reloading manuals I use.
Magnum primers have a harder cup as compared to standard primers.
There's an interesting published article titled "Choosing the right primer" about primers that is referenced on a forum here: http://www.sksboards.com/smf/?topic=56422.0

In it is discussed how magnum primers are designed to provide a hotter flame, however is also not recommended by some powder manufacturers for magnum loads.

Then there is a cool chart of primer cup thicknesses. It shows that standard and magnum small pistol cups are the same thickness as well as standard and large magnum cups being the same thickness. Rifle is a different story as you get the magnums and bench primers mixed in there.

The only piece of test equipment I have are my race revos, and my ammo needs to pass the test of igniting with them. They will only light off Federal primers both standard and magnum. I don't need to run the magnums but that didn't stop me from testing them out. That's my only proof.
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Old 09-14-2019, 8:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hambam105 View Post
Magnum Primers are specifically mentioned in many if not all of 70s & 80s reloading manuals I use.
Magnum primers have a harder cup as compared to standard primers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dooder View Post
There's an interesting published article titled "Choosing the right primer" about primers that is referenced on a forum here: http://www.sksboards.com/smf/?topic=56422.0
Thanks Dooder for that link. It was an informative reading. It seems that the manufacturing process have changed since the 1980s and so have some reloading manuals that hambam105 may be referring to. Considering that our OP is not planning on going full magnum it's not a real consequence when making a primer choice. However, for those considering loading full magnum it would behoove looking to current load manuals or powder manufacturer specs.
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  #26  
Old 09-14-2019, 10:41 AM
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Excellent article. Thanks for posting.
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Old 09-14-2019, 2:43 PM
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Dupe.
And this Dupe needs to know how to delete all the dupes he will certainly make in the near future.

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Old 09-14-2019, 2:51 PM
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When using W296 or H110 powder for assembling .357 Remington Magnum cartridges, any credible source that I've seen explicitly
indicates using a magnum rated small pistol primer. If that changes then I'm certain The World will want to know.

Smooth8500 Post #25. 1000% Excellent Advice.
Not just for 'magnalum' loads, but for all reloading adventures big and small.

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  #29  
Old 09-14-2019, 5:47 PM
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Time for a noob question =). Aside from loading for my 38 special 4" SW 15-4 which should handle +p fine I will load for my friend's 357. In case he wants some more umpf(technical term for power). I see max load of 4.8 with w231 and 125gr cast bullet lrnfp at 1071fps and 16,900 cup. I don't see +p load data for it but I've read hp38 is the same powder and there is +p load data. I see +p load data for a 158gr cast bullets but not for a 125gr cast bullets. Will the 125gr be traveling too fast since it's not a fmj? With a 5.0gr load the pressure should hit the +p range but maybe the Brazos hi tek coated bullet isn't supposed to be loaded that hot? I sent them an email but I probably won't hear back for a couple days. I'm assuming even though they are coated that they are still just a lead bullet.

Last edited by Geofois; 09-14-2019 at 6:30 PM..
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Old 09-15-2019, 6:33 AM
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I the old rule of only shooting +p ammo in a +p stamped revo still hold true these days? The K frame was enough for 357mag with the model 19. But I don't know bout the 15's. Everyone I know with a k38 shoots mild 38's or dewc's. Do some digging, maybe not a good idea to run +p in it. I'll ask some regulars at the range today and see what they say.

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Old 09-15-2019, 7:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hambam105 View Post
It is the Law in 13 States to only use 158 to 170 grain bullets for .38 Special unless, you shoot 148 HBWCs in a PPC Match.
Where ? Show a PC from 1 of these States .

Your answer from below shows that your full of what they pump from a septic tank .
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Old 09-15-2019, 9:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geofois View Post
Do you shoot it in your .38spl? I imagine the magnum case fits fine in the 38. Would you need to go 5.5gr in a 38 case to have the same fps? Wonder if the pressure would be a lot higher. Maybe my thinking is way off.


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Old 09-15-2019, 9:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dooder View Post
I the old rule of only shooting +p ammo in a +p stamped revo still hold true these days? The K frame was enough for 357mag with the model 19. But I don't know bout the 15's. Everyone I know with a k38 shoots mild 38's or dewc's. Do some digging, maybe not a good idea to run +p in it. I'll ask some regulars at the range today and see what they say.

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I've done so much article reading I've never run across that but every article did say any model with a number is fine with +p. I didn't know what that meant until one of them stated Model 15 and I think Model 10. In fact it said standard 38 ammo was just about +p back in the day. One said anything after 1957 should be good but I think long before that most stated it was fine. Mine was manufactured in 1980. Standard ammo seems to stop about 16,900 cup today but +p max is 20,000 vs magnum like 40,000 cup max but shouldn't exceed 35k today. I never found anything saying using +p would even wear out the model 15 if used too much.
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Old 09-15-2019, 9:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JagerDog View Post
[/B]
It is.
"My favorite plinking round for .38spl
5.0gr W231 in .357 magnum brass case, 125gr Hornady XTP, with a magnum primer.
Easy shooting, been loading these for many many years."

Since I was asking about him shooting 357 magnum cases for his 38 spl at 5.0gr of 231 I had my logic flipped around the wrong way. He would need to go down 10% in the 38 special case to roughly achieve similar pressures. Maybe he meant making 38 spl strength loads in 357 cases not so much 'for' them in a 38 spl pistol. Many seem to do that from what I've read since no point in target shooting with magnum loads and many only use 357 cases to avoid that ring of carbon/lead. The ring is a whole nutha discussion.
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Old 09-15-2019, 10:36 AM
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This is an article discussing the hardness of a bullet and what pressure it will work well with and provides the formula. The bullets I ordered are 13 binnel which after calculating would mean the ideal max pressure to avoid leading is 16,600fps but those bullets are coated so not sure if that changes things a lot. I have an email out to the company to find out. That's probably why the max for cast is much lower than jacketed to avoid leading. I'll report what I hear back about coated bullets

http://www.missouribullet.com/technical.php
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Old 09-15-2019, 10:58 PM
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Capt Dunsel,

The Penal Code sections, PC, that you are inquiring about can be easily found in
the left hand screwdriver drawer in a any hardware store nearest you.
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Old 09-23-2019, 6:19 AM
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Anything I would call "plinking" I do with Trailboss. I need to see the powder charge before placing a bullet for seating, and TB makes that easy. I can also tell pretty well if Trailboss has clumped up a bit and isn't dropping consistent charges. It runs more reliably for me without a baffle in my measure. I order two pounders from Powder Valley.

38 Special cases are not as tall and allow viewing powder more easily. You have to get a viewing angle on a pretty narrow case, more challenging on 357.

I load the brass that matches what is stamped on the barrel with only one exception. I don't have a +p gun except one that is really too small and light for it, so I shoot the occasional +p in my 357 SP101. No issue with cleaning (after every outing). However, that policy forced me to buy 500 cases to seed my supply of .357 Magnum brass. 38 Special brass is much easier to acquire for free, if you shoot where you can scavenge for brass. For me, I accumulated 38 Special quickly. However, I eventually culled it all down to Winchester, Starline, and Federal head stamps and segregated the +p stamps for SD or for sale.

I shoot 125 gr lead in 38 Special. The 140 is okay but has less loading data available for it. With 158 there will be more felt recoil but it uses a bit less powder. I use 158 in my .357 cowboy rifle to control the velocity limit allowed in a match. I use 125 in 357 only for my small gun loads. Those are rated somewhere between 38 +p and minimum 357, where load data for those shows a common powder. Alternatively, I expect you could just use 38 +p loads in 357 brass and work your way up, if desired.
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Old 09-23-2019, 8:33 AM
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Che762x39 Che762x39 is offline
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I was thinking the same thing for plinking, but what do you think about the "ring" I think that is from build up using a shorter cartridge?
Cleaning a revolver use the bore brush for the barrel and use a cylinder brush for the cylinders. I have been shooting revolvers for 40+ years and that was the law enforcement standard. Today most revolvers are not properly maintained, JMHO
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Old 09-23-2019, 8:40 AM
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There's an interesting published article titled "Choosing the right primer" about primers ...
Thank you for sharing.

On a sidenote I had light strikes with my new S&W 686P and my reloads with CCI primers and I switched to Federal and the problem went away.
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