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Concealed Carry Discussion General discussion regarding CCW/LTC in California

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Old 03-18-2019, 10:46 AM
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Default Morongo Casino / Indian Reservation - CCW Information

I stayed at the Morongo resort this weekend and went to a concert there Saturday night.

The rules around CCW on Indian reservation land have always been a bit of a mystery to me, so I talked to a couple of their Tribal Public Safety officers and a supervisor after the concert.

The supervisor laid it out very well. They do not allow weapons, including CCW on their resort (hotel, casinos) or gas station properties, which are all accessible from public roads. He said, “Leave it in your car while you’re here, you’ll be fine”.

As I am not familiar with the area out there, I asked what happens if someone with a CCW is on reservation land unknowingly. With the exception of the resort and gas station, all other roads (leading into the reservation) are gated, so it isn’t possible to just drive in without knowing where you’re going.

I saw a few Riverside County Sheriff cars at the concert, so I asked the Tribal supervisor if Morongo contracted with them for law enforcement. The supervisor said they do not, and that they were “just here to pick up our arrestees from tonight”. (I had read somewhere that “if” the reservation contracts with local law enforcement, CCW permits and rules are enforced according California law)

The biggest take-away from the conversation was this:

The Public Safety officers would ask a permitted CCW holder to secure the gun in their car and if refused, ask them to leave the property. Any pushback here would result in a ‘forced ejection’ and possible trespassing charge, with a pickup by the Riverside Sheriff. Sounds pretty standard for a business with a no-gun policy.

Inside the reservation proper (behind the gates) there’s a tribal police department and the tribal court system, which in the words of the supervisor “may do things a little differently”. I didn’t ask, but it appears that the Public Safety folks at the resort aren’t part of the tribal police, and the tribal police only work in the non-public access areas inside the gates.

I hope this is helpful. It was my first time out to Morongo and I had a good time. The staff was nice, and the Public Safety guys I talked to were very open about the topic of CCW there.
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Last edited by vocoder; 03-18-2019 at 11:06 AM..
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Old 03-18-2019, 11:02 AM
tnlrat37 tnlrat37 is offline
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I worked Security there back in the late 90’s after getting out of the Marines. Not sure how it is now but back then tribal security had guys at the gas station, at an old rock quarry, and at another compound besides the casino. Our boss was the Chief of Tribal Police, we had RSO out there all the time to pick people up we detained. They own a lot of land right there and they have their own rules but RSO would handle all the LEO calls outside the casino back then.

Not sure what the rules are on CCW out there but it’s private property (tribal land) so I’m sure they can set their own rules. Not sure if the no gun signs carry force of law because of their sovereignty.

A little info I found

https://morongonation.org/reservation-patrol
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Old 03-18-2019, 2:18 PM
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Just another good reason to not give them my business...
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Old 03-19-2019, 9:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vocoder View Post
Inside the reservation proper (behind the gates) there’s a tribal police department and the tribal court system, which in the words of the supervisor “may do things a little differently”. I didn’t ask, but it appears that the Public Safety folks at the resort aren’t part of the tribal police, and the tribal police only work in the non-public access areas inside the gates.
So the resort isn't on tribal land? Then what's the problem? You are legally allowed to carry there unless asked to leave just like everywhere else
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Old 03-19-2019, 9:50 AM
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So the resort isn't on tribal land? Then what's the problem? You are legally allowed to carry there unless asked to leave just like everywhere else
The resort is 100% on tribal land, but is open to the public.

The rest of the reservation is gated off from public access and operates under different (CCW) rules.
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Old 03-19-2019, 9:58 AM
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I did some research on this and the takeaway was that messing around with tribal law wasn't recommended. if you get in trouble, you get to deal with a tribal council that does things their own way and have laws different than CA.
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Old 03-19-2019, 12:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vocoder View Post
The resort is 100% on tribal land, but is open to the public.

The rest of the reservation is gated off from public access and operates under different (CCW) rules.
So the safety officer said tribal law doesn't apply on tribal land?
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Old 03-19-2019, 12:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by baggss View Post


Just another good reason to not give them my business...




We try to avoid stopping at reservations whenever and wherever possible...
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Old 03-19-2019, 12:49 PM
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So the safety officer said tribal law doesn't apply on tribal land?
Yes - based on the conversation I had. The Public Safety officers at the resort have state-issued security guard cards requiring that they only carry exposed firearms, and anyone arrested goes with the Riverside Sheriff.

Once you go through the gated entry to reservation itself, it's tribal police jurisdiction and tribal laws
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Last edited by vocoder; 03-19-2019 at 12:56 PM.. Reason: redundant redundancy.
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Old 03-19-2019, 1:13 PM
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Ca is a public law 280 state, and I don't think there are any tribal lands in Ca that were excluded. Meaning Ca law is enforced on tribal land. I do not believe that tribal laws can be enforced on non Indian's, but I'd have to reread the law to be certain.

Bottom line is that it would be just like a business with a "no guns" sign.
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Old 03-19-2019, 1:20 PM
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PL-280 says that CA State Law applies everywhere on CA Tribal Land. That's precisely why their security have CA BSIS Guard Cards and endorsements. Tribal law and tribal courts only apply to tribal members.

...no matter what, you can always be trespassed of asked to leave...
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Old 03-19-2019, 4:59 PM
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I went in strapped and stopped to ask security. I was told they prefer you keep your weapon in your car or if staying in the hotel, in your room. Just not on the casino floor. They were totally cool about it and I don't think they view us permit holders as a problem. Now if you started something, all bets are off.
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Old 03-22-2019, 7:15 PM
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CA is a Public Law 280 State, which means the CA Penal Code is enforced on Tribal lands located in CA.

As long as there are no restrictions printed on your CA LTC permit that would prohibit you from being in a gaming facility or establishment that sells alcohol for consumption, then under CA laws you can legally carry there.

However, since it is private property, if they discover you carrying, they can ask you to leave the property and failing to do so, can result in a trespassing arrest/citation and/or notification to your issuing agency.
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Old 03-23-2019, 5:48 PM
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What Quiet said, as usual he's on point and you are not breaking any laws to carry on California Indian reservations. In case of the remote chance someone tries to kill an armed CCW holder while they are on the property, they'll be glad they have their well concealed weapon with them. In fact I know someone who has carried there several times, he just keeps it, well you know, concealed. He even carries in the concerts... In fact this guy has carried at Pala, Pechanga, and San Manuel. The only way any tribal folks are going to ask him to leave the premises with it, is if they see it right?
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Old 08-30-2020, 8:34 PM
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Guys, the poster charlesclark is a spamming bot.
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Old 08-30-2020, 9:06 PM
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Quote:
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Guys, the poster charlesclark is a spamming bot.
Charles has left the building.
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Old 08-30-2020, 10:21 PM
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Since this has been necrothreaded, I might as well post an update.

It is the official policy of the Morongo Casino Resort & Spa and Casino Morongo to prohibit the possession of weapons on property.
^No firearms and no melee weapons (knife, etc).

Signage expressing this policy has been applied to every entrance to those properties.

This policy also applies to persons with valid conceal carry permits and to off-duty LEOs.

Violating this policy will result in being banned from the property and can result in being contacted by the Riverside County Sheriff Department for a trespassing arrest/citation and/or arrest for other weapons violations.

This policy came about because:
#1. The person who came up with the policy is an anti-gun authoritarian and the casino lawyers think it will help prevent #2.
#2. Over the last two years, there have been numerous incidents in which a CCW permit holder or an off-duty LEO had an issue involving their sidearms and Morongo employees.

The most common incident is the permit holder or off-duty LEO leaving their handgun in their room after checking out or leaving their handgun in one of the casino restrooms.
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