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  #41  
Old 06-24-2021, 4:29 PM
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So, if I decide..to go for a more affordable gun, how much different is the PPQ from the PDP??? I see PPQ' s at a much more affordable level!!
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  #42  
Old 06-24-2021, 4:32 PM
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No, I'm agreeing that the PDP is a really sweet gun to shoot. Market forces work both ways. If I didn't like my PDP and decided to sell it here, I'd probably get $550 for it and take a $100 loss (compared to what I paid for it).

To the OP, you need to choose yourself whether the California premium is worth it. Just like the Sig guys from a few years ago. If you think a Sig is worth twice the price of a Glock, you buy it for that price. If you really like the Walther, you make the choice to either pay the California premium and enjoy your gun or you compromise the other way and buy the next best thing that is "on-roster" in California.

I don't want anyone to move to Texas just for the 2A rights we have out here. That's just a fringe benefit. My point is that I agree that the PDP has great ergonomics and is a gun that has evolved in the past 2 decades since the roster started.
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  #43  
Old 06-24-2021, 4:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TomReloaded View Post
Practically, basically all gun owners would be fine with just having a hi point. They're $150. Why buy anything nicer if most guns just sit in the safe unshot anyway?
Completely fallacious and you know it.
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  #44  
Old 06-24-2021, 4:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mftroop13 View Post
I actually have a non law enforcement friend who lives in both Montana AND California....

He can easily purchase the pistol in Montana...

If he transfers it to me, is that a problem?? It sounds like it is a major gray area...but my friend thrives on gray areas lol
He can legally acquire a firearm in MT as a resident of MT.

However, since he maintains his CA residency, he can not legally bring any firearms he acquired in MT to CA, unless they are imported into CA through a CA FFL dealer.

Firearms imported into CA need to be CA legal and can not include any large capacity magazines.
In addition, if the firearms are handguns, then they must be listed on the Roster of Handguns Certified for Sale or be exempt from it (C&R, OTP, SAE, SSE2).

Failure to utilize a CA FFL dealer to import the firearms into CA equates to a misdemeaner per long gun and a felony per handgun.

Since the Walther PDP is a non-exempt off-Roster handgun, your friend can not legally bring that handgun to CA and if he does he will be committing a CA felony. In addition, the handgun will be considered an illegal imported firearm that will be subject to confiscation/destruction, if discovered.
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  #45  
Old 06-24-2021, 4:50 PM
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Originally Posted by mftroop13 View Post
So, if I decide..to go for a more affordable gun, how much different is the PPQ from the PDP??? I see PPQ' s at a much more affordable level!!
The trigger and frame on the PDP and PPQ are virtually the same. The PDP is essentially an updated PPQ with an optic ready slide and better slide serations. I have a PPQ it is by far my favorite polymer striker pistol. It is far superior to the Glock and I like Glocks. The only gun that comes close to the PPQ is a PPQ clone like the Canik TP9. Slides and frames are compatible/interchangeable between the PPQ and PDP. I also have a VP9 and think the PPQ is better. If I lived in a free state I'd probably only own PDP/PPQs and clones of them.

Only downside is cost of mags.
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Last edited by Tere_Hanges; 06-24-2021 at 4:58 PM..
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  #46  
Old 06-24-2021, 4:59 PM
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Originally Posted by California_Deplorable View Post
If I lived in a free state I'd probably only own PDP/PPQs and clones of them.
If it weren't for the Roster - the Q5s (both PF and SF) would have been my pistol of choice as opposed to a Glock 34 Gen 3...

That said, now that my 13-yr old is quite OK with how he performs with his Glock 17 - I let him try out the Q5 PF. Yikes! He wants to switch!! (He said that the SF was too heavy for him)


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  #47  
Old 06-24-2021, 5:13 PM
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and if I decide to move forward, compact or full sized??? lol
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  #48  
Old 06-24-2021, 5:17 PM
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Originally Posted by mftroop13 View Post
Hi Everyone

I am new into the gun world...

My girlfriend and I took a class to shoot, and we are hooked!

So, now we both want to purchase a pistol.

I did some research, and the Walther PDP looks like a real winner...

Of course, because I am new to all of this, I was unaware of the ROSTER.

So, unless I want to pay $2,000 for a $600 handgun, I guess I will have to consider something else...

Does anybody have a suggestion for my first handgun that is similar to the PDP??

Thanks!!!

Mike
Mike, take a look at the Sig Sauer SP2022.

I got one in 2015 and it's a great pistol ( 9mm )

I have owned a generation 2 / Glock19 for many years and find that i like the Sig better.

BTW, these pistols have a long track record with many Police Departments the world over, including France, Switzerland and Colombia..

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  #49  
Old 06-24-2021, 6:05 PM
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Some of the best on-roster are HK USP .45 Expert, Elite, CZ 75 SP-01, 75 P-01, 75D Compact PCR, any Glock.
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  #50  
Old 06-24-2021, 6:09 PM
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Originally Posted by California_Deplorable View Post
The trigger and frame on the PDP and PPQ are virtually the same. The PDP is essentially an updated PPQ with an optic ready slide and better slide serations. I have a PPQ it is by far my favorite polymer striker pistol. It is far superior to the Glock and I like Glocks. The only gun that comes close to the PPQ is a PPQ clone like the Canik TP9. Slides and frames are compatible/interchangeable between the PPQ and PDP. I also have a VP9 and think the PPQ is better. If I lived in a free state I'd probably only own PDP/PPQs and clones of them.

Only downside is cost of mags.
Agreed. The PPQ was the gun I originally really wanted. They are seemingly flooding the market now because I think they are being discontinued. I saw these this afternoon.





Now they are upgrades from the stock PDP so the prices are higher. If I wanted a threaded barrel, I would be tempted to get the "tactical" model.

I did have a Sig 2022 in 40 S&W. It was a very nice gun and shooting it single action was about as good as shooting a 1911. The trigger sat at the back of the trigger guard and broke right at the back so it was a really nice. The DA was super long and didn't break until the trigger was virtually touching the back of the trigger guard. If you haven't shot a 2022, try it. It's really fun. The weight of the gun helped absorb the recoil of the 40 cartridge. I would guess the 9 would be a really soft shooter. Unfortunately I sold it to finance a Shield 9 when I thought I was going to get a CCW in CA. I'm now glad I didn't but I do regret selling that 2022.

A low budget gun with a low budget watch, but they both got the job done

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  #51  
Old 06-24-2021, 6:28 PM
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If you are willing to “downgrade” to the PPQ Q5 match pistol, plastic or steel frame, you might get it for a lower “off-roster” price now that the PDP has been released. Honestly, I have the Q5 Match SF, and it’s fantastic. It is also red dot ready out of the box. I hear the trigger on the PDP is possibly better, but some reviewers say it’s about the same as the PPQ.

I love my PPQ, which is incredibly accurate. So much so that I don’t shoot it as often as my other pistols, because I have very tight groups at 20-25 yards. Also, because the trigger pull is quite light, I don’t choose to use it as an HD pistol. More for range fun.

So that might be an alternative that is easier to find and not quite as expensive as the PDP right now.

On a side note, I am a little disappointed that Walther seems to change their pistol lines so quickly. While I love my PPQ, I am no longer interested in getting another Walther for that reason. I don’t want a pistol that will no longer be in production after a few years.
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  #52  
Old 06-24-2021, 6:41 PM
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Originally Posted by JC2020 View Post
On a side note, I am a little disappointed that Walther seems to change their pistol lines so quickly. While I love my PPQ, I am no longer interested in getting another Walther for that reason. I don’t want a pistol that will no longer be in production after a few years.
I dont get it. The PDP is basically just the next generation of the PPQ. Its like getting upset everytime Glock comes out with their next gen.
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  #53  
Old 06-24-2021, 7:10 PM
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Originally Posted by osis32 View Post
I too want want a couple pdps. I like the concept and execution. Good luck finding one for a decent price.
My guess is that was retail. I purchased my full size PDP 4.5" barrel the week they came out. The dealer's asking price was $590 plus tax. Showed the dealer my Idaho Enhanced permit and that waived the NICS background check. Showed him my Idaho DL that says that I am a veteran and he said you get the military discount. Out the door in under 20min for just over $600. Would have been quicker except the cute young gal at the cash register ask if she could look at it. I said sure. Enjoyed the smile on her face as she opened the case.

I would bring it to CA the next time I visit, except at this time the full size PDPs only come with 18rnd mags and unlike the compact version PPQ mags will not work.
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  #54  
Old 06-24-2021, 7:22 PM
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I do wish they had a couple optics lugs... so that the screws were not stressed... but I bet it is an easy fix.

Honestly tho... seeing Walther's platform fickleness... if I was exempt...

I'd be getting CZ polymer, Caniks, and even Armscor metal frame striker fired pistols first. Maybe even PSA, hahah.
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  #55  
Old 06-24-2021, 7:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rsrocket1 View Post
I just did

Best of all I was able to walk out the store with this "OFF ROSTER" gun in 20 minutes and YOU CAN'T

Great response! It is hard for those in CA who have to put up with CA's BS to grasp that it does not and should not take more than 20 minutes to purchase a non NFA firearm and leave the store with it. But, technically, it was not "off roster" because that BS does not exist where you and I live. However, your point is OK, because you were responding to a person who is subject to such BS.
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  #56  
Old 06-25-2021, 6:13 AM
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Originally Posted by jessegpresley View Post
Why is a guy in Texas on Calguns gloating about pistols he can buy there?
That's what people who live out of state do. We let it go if it is one of us that recently escaped. Sometimes they do incorrectly assume that we did not already know what rights you have in other states - like buying a gun and walking out with it.
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  #57  
Old 06-25-2021, 6:21 AM
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Originally Posted by BAJ475 View Post
I would bring it to CA the next time I visit, except at this time the full size PDPs only come with 18rnd mags and unlike the compact version PPQ mags will not work.
The old PPQ / Q5 did have those quirks no one really complained about (but they were cons).

A G19 sized grip on a large G34 sized slide and a rear sight on the Q5 that you lost when you removed the optics plate.

The relatively small mag was not that big a deal and MECGAR +2 extensions do fit. The rear sight is not as easy to overlook IMHO. Overall it is a really fun range gun and one of the best Glock knock-offs.
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  #58  
Old 06-25-2021, 7:14 AM
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Originally Posted by BAJ475 View Post
My guess is that was retail. I purchased my full size PDP 4.5" barrel the week they came out. The dealer's asking price was $590 plus tax. Showed the dealer my Idaho Enhanced permit and that waived the NICS background check. Showed him my Idaho DL that says that I am a veteran and he said you get the military discount. Out the door in under 20min for just over $600. Would have been quicker except the cute young gal at the cash register ask if she could look at it. I said sure. Enjoyed the smile on her face as she opened the case.

I would bring it to CA the next time I visit, except at this time the full size PDPs only come with 18rnd mags and unlike the compact version PPQ mags will not work.
I meant finding one in for a decent price in California. I didn't know that wasn't full size though. I prefer full sugar so I guess it's good I can't get one now.
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  #59  
Old 06-25-2021, 7:51 AM
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Originally Posted by California_Deplorable View Post
I dont get it. The PDP is basically just the next generation of the PPQ. Its like getting upset everytime Glock comes out with their next gen.
The support and aftermarket support isn't the same, especially in California. That's all. I had more difficulty in finding a holster that fit my PPQ Q5 Match SF correctly, and that was before they discontinued it. There are plenty of Gen 4 Glock holsters out there.

I love the platform. I'm definitely keeping the one I have. But here, in California, I (personally) don't plan to get another. Hence my disappointment. I'm not upset about it.
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  #60  
Old 06-25-2021, 8:02 AM
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Originally Posted by JC2020 View Post
If you are willing to “downgrade” to the PPQ Q5 match pistol, plastic or steel frame, you might get it for a lower “off-roster” price now that the PDP has been released. Honestly, I have the Q5 Match SF, and it’s fantastic. It is also red dot ready out of the box. I hear the trigger on the PDP is possibly better, but some reviewers say it’s about the same as the PPQ.

So that might be an alternative that is easier to find and not quite as expensive as the PDP right now.


I would have to concur with the above. One of the factors driving the off roster premium is the "newness" of a firearm. I got my polymer Q5 at only $1,200 because the steel frame Q5 just came out, which was selling in California for $3,500 at the onset.

But seriously - I could darn say that even if the PDP were an "upgrade" to the PPQ or that the PPQ is a "lesser" firearm than the PDP for one reason or another (grip texture, trigger setup, internals, etc.) - the majority of shooters will NOT be able to demonstrate any significant performance differences...

Again this is presumption that the gun is being procured for utility NOT for a collection...


Quote:
Originally Posted by JC2020 View Post
I love my PPQ, which is incredibly accurate. So much so that I don’t shoot it as often as my other pistols, because I have very tight groups at 20-25 yards. Also, because the trigger pull is quite light, I don’t choose to use it as an HD pistol. More for range fun.
Did you modify the trigger on your PPQs...? Maybe the trigger spring...?

I don't find a significant difference between the trigger pull weight of say my polymer/steel Q5s to a Glock 17 Gen 3 with a stock, albeit Flitz-polished assembly with an OEM minus connector. Obviously the break with the former is crispier with less of the mushiness coming from the 'longer' pull of the minus connector of the latter.

That said - even the "trashy" Glock triggers cannot be considered a performance factory anymore. I was at the range yesterday with a Glock 21SF Gen 3 with a stock trigger assembly (yes, with the heavier springs meant for 45ACP) - I managed to surprise myself with a 2.5-inch group at 25-yards! With a budget Tupperware Glock!



Quote:
Originally Posted by crufflers View Post
Some of the best on-roster are HK USP .45 Expert, Elite, CZ 75 SP-01, 75 P-01, 75D Compact PCR, any Glock.
Yes!!!

There are comparative and cheaper alternatives in the Roster.

To the @OP - suggest to get one of these and spend the rest on training and ammo which will do better for one's skills than some fancy "flavor of the month" firearm... Unless of course, the OP has a different use case (collection).

Good luck on your decision!!! (Just remember that your FIRST purchase will NOT be your LAST)


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  #61  
Old 06-25-2021, 8:24 AM
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Losing the cz tac sport to the roster was a huge blow. I think the new ones are better but I won't know until I move.
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  #62  
Old 06-25-2021, 8:39 AM
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Originally Posted by osis32 View Post
Losing the cz tac sport to the roster was a huge blow. I think the new ones are better but I won't know until I move.
Did we lose it? Or is it still On Roster just that CZ had discontinued it...?


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  #63  
Old 06-25-2021, 9:06 AM
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The few minor CONS with a Q5 are not as bad as screws not rated for holding an RMR (alone) shearing off because there are no lugs on the PDP (certainly that will happen when you least expect it)... but that just IMHO. It is for sure a gorgeous gun, as is the Q5. I think the standard PPQ had quite a bit more of that gaudy Walther design flourish and less of the high tech tactical... like VP9, etc...
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  #64  
Old 06-25-2021, 9:10 AM
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The last BRAND NEW GEN3 G34 from Sportsman's I handled (family member bought one) had a great trigger on it. I was pretty surprised actually. Would I replace it with a ZEV V4 Race or TTI connector? Yeah, probably, but it was good. You can polish or dremel on your Glocks but a $15 or $25 part that is factory hardened is better IMHO.
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  #65  
Old 06-25-2021, 10:10 AM
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Jesse, You cannot buy an off roster pistol ONLINE in CA. You can connect with the person and arrange FFL purchase. The pistol needs to be owned by a CA resident inorder to resell to another CA resident. Essentially, you will never be able to buy a new off roster gun in CA. But if your parents live in another state and gift it to you...

Take your time, determine what you want and know your personality because this can get expensive real quick.
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  #66  
Old 06-25-2021, 10:29 AM
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Essentially, you will never be able to buy a new off roster gun in CA.
Depends on what you consider new. I'm sure many people have bought PPT (Private Party Transfer) guns that have never been fired and are still brand new in the box.
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  #67  
Old 06-25-2021, 10:36 AM
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I have to say, that until I decided I wanted to purchase a gun, I had NO idea about how ridiculous California gun laws are.

I don't consider myself a right winger, but California is SO over the top leftist, it is incredible.

I will eventually move out of this state that I have lived in my whole life
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  #68  
Old 06-25-2021, 11:46 AM
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Originally Posted by JC2020 View Post
There are plenty of Gen 4 Glock holsters out there.
Plenty of Glock everything out there. Glock system FTW. For anything serious or not serious.
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  #69  
Old 06-25-2021, 1:08 PM
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Originally Posted by rodralig View Post


Did you modify the trigger on your PPQs...? Maybe the trigger spring...?

I don't find a significant difference between the trigger pull weight of say my polymer/steel Q5s to a Glock 17 Gen 3 with a stock, albeit Flitz-polished assembly with an OEM minus connector. Obviously the break with the former is crispier with less of the mushiness coming from the 'longer' pull of the minus connector of the latter.

_
The only thing I did was to put a red dot on it. Hmm. Mine has a trigger that is noticeably lighter than any of my Glocks, which are all stock triggers with no modifications or spring changes.

I never measured it, though. Interesting. I feel like mine is definitely less than a 5 pound pull.
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Old 06-25-2021, 1:10 PM
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Originally Posted by crufflers View Post
Plenty of Glock everything out there. Glock system FTW. For anything serious or not serious.
Yeah, it's easy to get a conceal holster, or a range holster, for one. Same with CZs; they still have stuff for P-01s, for example.

But with the discontinuation of the PPQ line, I don't know how much longer accessories will be made.
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  #71  
Old 06-25-2021, 2:01 PM
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Originally Posted by rodralig View Post
Did we lose it? Or is it still On Roster just that CZ had discontinued it...?


_
Well if it's discontinued you can't get a new one from your local ffl. To me that is losing it. That really was the best gun on the roster up to the point it was discontinued.
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  #72  
Old 06-25-2021, 4:10 PM
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Originally Posted by osis32 View Post
Well if it's discontinued you can't get a new one from your local ffl. To me that is losing it. That really was the best gun on the roster up to the point it was discontinued.
I would agree with you on that...!!!

Am glad that I still have the TS in 40...


Quote:
Originally Posted by JC2020 View Post
The only thing I did was to put a red dot on it. Hmm. Mine has a trigger that is noticeably lighter than any of my Glocks, which are all stock triggers with no modifications or spring changes.

I never measured it, though. Interesting. I feel like mine is definitely less than a 5 pound pull.
Yes, the stock Q5 is less than 5#. AFAIR my polymer is about 3# 10oz.

And you are right - a bone stock Glock 17 with the OEM standard connector should be about 5.5#. Mine has the minus, then metal polished with Flitz ($0.25 trigger job) and a few thousands of rounds of wear and tear... Less than 4# - thus felt closer to the Q5.

My home defense Glock 21SF Gen 3 - with the 6# striker spring but OEM minus and Flitzed parts has about 3# 13-oz.


_
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Old 06-25-2021, 5:47 PM
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Sequencer60 Sequencer60 is offline
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No, I'm agreeing that the PDP is a really sweet gun to shoot. Market forces work both ways. If I didn't like my PDP and decided to sell it here, I'd probably get $550 for it and take a $100 loss (compared to what I paid for it).

To the OP, you need to choose yourself whether the California premium is worth it. Just like the Sig guys from a few years ago. If you think a Sig is worth twice the price of a Glock, you buy it for that price. If you really like the Walther, you make the choice to either pay the California premium and enjoy your gun or you compromise the other way and buy the next best thing that is "on-roster" in California.

I don't want anyone to move to Texas just for the 2A rights we have out here. That's just a fringe benefit. My point is that I agree that the PDP has great ergonomics and is a gun that has evolved in the past 2 decades since the roster started.
If you really like Sigs, buy an SP2022, which is every bit as good as a Glock and can be had for about the same price ($600).
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Old 06-25-2021, 6:55 PM
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So, I think I am gonna buy a PPQ...should I buy a full size, or a compact???

If I am gonna be test firing legal guns at shooting ranges, what guns should I fire to tell the difference??

Thanks!!

Mike
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Old 06-25-2021, 10:34 PM
rsrocket1 rsrocket1 is offline
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FS vs compact is really a personal choice. I thought I really wanted a full size with the longer barrel until I handled the 4” compact and found that my hand was fully on the grip with comfort. I also figured that with a red dot, the slightly shorter sight radius wasn’t going to be a deal breaker.
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Old 06-25-2021, 10:50 PM
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Originally Posted by rodralig View Post

Yes, the stock Q5 is less than 5#. AFAIR my polymer is about 3# 10oz.

And you are right - a bone stock Glock 17 with the OEM standard connector should be about 5.5#. Mine has the minus, then metal polished with Flitz ($0.25 trigger job) and a few thousands of rounds of wear and tear... Less than 4# - thus felt closer to the Q5.

My home defense Glock 21SF Gen 3 - with the 6# striker spring but OEM minus and Flitzed parts has about 3# 13-oz.


_
That makes much more sense! I was about to question my own sanity. I don't mind the slightly heavier trigger pulls on my Glocks; I do not compete, just train regularly and try to improve. I figure I will use the PPQ if I ever decide to compete, as I do not otherwise have a 5" barrel among my striker fired pistols.

I'm not at the level to compete as of yet, in my opinion. I plan to work on my fundamentals and take more than the three courses I've taken so far. I'm planning to go to Front Sight sometime later this year if I can find the time.
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Old 06-26-2021, 1:07 AM
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Just going by feel, my PPQ has a lot of take-up and is not real smooth, decent wall, a little creep and light break. I like my G41 with TTI connector just as much, but the G41 is probably 4-8 ounces heavier... take-up on the G41 is smoother. Both are superb striker-fired triggers IMHO. Both have great resets to my taste.
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Old 06-26-2021, 11:27 AM
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So, I think I am gonna buy a PPQ...should I buy a full size, or a compact???

If I am gonna be test firing legal guns at shooting ranges, what guns should I fire to tell the difference??

Thanks!!

Mike
Which feels and shoots better? I bough the HK P2000sk over the P2000 Full Size because I can shoot the SK better. Its the nearest gun to VP9sk/P30sk I also added the Pinky extension base plate for better grip. PPQ has the same, try the Compact with the Pinky extension vs standard base plate. It may work for you. See below.

If you want to try out either and many other off roster guns, try to get to Vegas or Reno. The ranges in NV rent out a wide variety of off roster guns, and for $25 you can rent 3 at at time + fee + bullets. ~ $100 for 2 hours. They have everything and more. They are very welcoming to California residents. Just walk in ask question, register, answer some questions and shoot. Reno Gun and Range (Reno) and American Shooter(Vegas) are highly recommended. If you get a chance do try the SIG 365, HK VP9sk, and PPQc. Best thing about NV, they got it all! Have fun.

Walther-PPQ-Subcompact-SC-5.jpg

Last edited by Harry Ono; 06-26-2021 at 11:34 AM..
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Old 06-26-2021, 12:18 PM
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Which feels and shoots better? I bough the HK P2000sk over the P2000 Full Size because I can shoot the SK better.
I compared the PPQ trigger to a G41 because they were both right there in the safe next to each other...

For a 9mm, the PPQ's flip more than Glocks IMHO. Both fun to shoot. Overall, most Glock knock-offs are not as good as the original, including a PPQ.



They are doing the PDP video right now.
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