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Centerfire Rifles - Manually Operated Lever action, bolt action or other non gas operated centerfire rifles.

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  #121  
Old 08-02-2020, 1:25 PM
1859sharps 1859sharps is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FISHNFRANK View Post
It’s still the most versatile cartridge ever invented.
The value of which is missed on people with the resources to just buy another rifle for each need/interest they need a rifle for.

30-06 can be good to excellent choice for a lot of things and even ideal in some, but not ideal for all. if you got the ability to buy a rifle for each use, why would you care about one rifle that can do many things sufficiently well?

Oh the first world problems we face....
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  #122  
Old 08-02-2020, 2:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Ross View Post
You should've told that to the 18 year old who fired maybe a hundred rounds in a single day during WWI and WWII.

He'd be impressed by your fragility.
Take that 18 year old and show him what is available today and he'll also agree that what the government handed him in 1917 or 1942 was a POS compared to what's on the market today if your standard is "most effective at dropping soldiers quickly and efficiently with minimal training".
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  #123  
Old 08-02-2020, 2:42 PM
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After 121 posts I think we can safely say that the good reason we see hostility towards the 30-06 on internet forums is people like to argue.
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  #124  
Old 08-02-2020, 4:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Imageview View Post
After 121 posts I think we can safely say that the good reason we see hostility towards the 30-06 on internet forums is people like to argue.
No we don't. just admit I am right and we can move on :P
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  #125  
Old 08-02-2020, 4:29 PM
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6x55mm Swedish Mauser
7x57mm Mauser
.30-30 WCF
.270 WCF
.30-06 SPG
9.3x62mm Mauser(Bock)

Adult cartridges that probably account for over 95% of all game ever kill on the planet with a rifle.




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  #126  
Old 08-02-2020, 5:18 PM
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You're asking a question that's better answered in a psychology class than a gun forum, in my opinion. There are things wrapped up in the identity center of our brain that don't belong there, but our brain has stored them there alongside our name, our mother's face, and our religion. Neuroscientists have imaged people's brains while receiving information contrary to their beliefs, and the fMRIs show that the individual believes he's being attacked. Not his beliefs, but rather who he is as a person.

Anyway, now we add identity to how someone grew up: stories from their grandfathers they can't even recall hearing, but were cemented with the smell of pipe smoke and the joy of being allowed into the campfire ring to talk "grown-up things."

Like why the .30-06 is the greatest, most versatile rifle cartridge ever devised by man.

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  #127  
Old 08-02-2020, 7:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Garandimal View Post
6x55mm Swedish Mauser
7x57mm Mauser
.30-30 WCF
.270 WCF
.30-06 SPG
9.3x62mm Mauser(Bock)

Adult cartridges that probably account for over 95% of all game ever kill on the planet with a rifle.

GR
I think that you meant the 6.5x55 Swede not 6x55.

There were and are a pot load of animals poached in all the civil and brush wars in Africa with the 7.62x39s from all those AKs used there. The 8x57 Mauser was as common if not more common in Africa than the 7x57.
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  #128  
Old 08-02-2020, 8:01 PM
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Originally Posted by pratchett View Post
Anyway, now we add identity to how someone grew up: stories from their grandfathers they can't even recall hearing, but were cemented with the smell of pipe smoke and the joy of being allowed into the campfire ring to talk "grown-up things."

Like why the .30-06 is the greatest, most versatile rifle cartridge ever devised by man.
Great story/vignette there. I'll bet most of us have experiences/stories that are a lot alike or close to this. I certainly do.

And you're right. They are palpably, powerfully formative of your views/perceptions/values that most of us hold our entire lives.
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  #129  
Old 08-03-2020, 7:29 AM
theduracellbigd theduracellbigd is offline
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Originally Posted by Imageview View Post
After 121 posts I think we can safely say that the good reason we see hostility towards the 30-06 on internet forums is people like to argue.
HAHA...very true. I try to be an objective individual and when looking at all the primary CF rifle calibers people hunt big game with from.24 up to .35, the .30 caliber fits nicely in the center, not too big not too small. So any modern CF rifle shooting a .30 projectile is a good pick in my book.

Last edited by theduracellbigd; 08-03-2020 at 7:32 AM..
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  #130  
Old 08-03-2020, 3:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Verdha603 View Post
My issue is less aimed at the cartridge itself but rather many of it's adherents that for lack of a better word, are "caliber cultists" that refuse to accept that cartridges have been made in the last 100 some years that can do something better than the .30-06 can.

I would also connect it to a degree of nationalistic pride, especially amongst hunters; the .30-06 is the sacred cow for hunting cartridges in the USA, whereas Sweden does the same thing to 6.5x55mm Swede, Germany still puts 8x57mm Mauser on a pedestal, many Central and South American countries put 7x57mm Mauser on a pedestal, and so on and so forth. Insult the caliber of the tribe, and you'll be scorned by the traditionalists that say "If it was good enough for Grand-Pappy, it's good enough for me!"

Many of these people sit on a high horse of "Why do you need anything else? X caliber is the best caliber, bar none!" I've even had to shake my head at some folks when they write off .308 Winchester as ".30-06 for people that can't man up and take some real recoil." It's akin to the old guys that frankly believe we still live in the age of FMJ being the standard self defense load to peddle why the .45 is superior to 9mm because "it makes a bigger hole".

The .30-06 has a well deserved reputation, not least of which is because of its availability across North America, a variety of projectiles that can allow you to handle any medium or large game on the continent, and 100+ years of data to almost hand you whatever loads will work best for what animal you intend to hunt, but it shows its age.

With modern technology you can get a smaller projectile, in a shorter case, that can produce similar if not equal or better results to a .30-06, with the easiest example to point to being the 60+ year old .308 Winchester; save for the heaviest bullets, a .308 will do everything a .30-06 can do in a 20% shorter cartridge, making for a shorter bolt and thus shorter overall length for the rifle compared to a .30-06 rifle. It's literally an improved .30-06. That's before taking into consideration the glut of other cartridges made since the .308 that can do some things better than the .30-06.

No caliber is the end all, be all answer, and .30-06 isn't the one and only rifle cartridge to rule them all.
1/4 of an inch. to go back 75 years retrograde from a 7.62x51 backwards to improve on a 7.92x57 or a 30-06. There is no logic, no point to make. There is no ruler, only humans with rulers.....
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  #131  
Old 08-03-2020, 3:56 PM
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My 06’ was built for hunting. If I do my part, it does it’s very well! It was my go to for many years. Today, a synthetic stocked .270 is the current go to. But, the 06’ is always ready for the hunt. It’s like a classic American muscle car, that when out, commands respect!
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  #132  
Old 08-03-2020, 4:39 PM
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Originally Posted by pratchett View Post
You're asking a question that's better answered in a psychology class than a gun forum, in my opinion. There are things wrapped up in the identity center of our brain that don't belong there, but our brain has stored them there alongside our name, our mother's face, and our religion. Neuroscientists have imaged people's brains while receiving information contrary to their beliefs, and the fMRIs show that the individual believes he's being attacked. Not his beliefs, but rather who he is as a person.
Sort of like anything smacking of challenge to whether the Bible is the "Word of God", I suppose. Do so, and my observation has been that Christians tend to get *REALLY* ticked off, in some cases to the point of wanting to instigate physical violence. Same with others. And I never understood that fury.

I'm certainly not attacking any person or any person's favorite cartridge. I was simply wondering why there was hostility against a rather popular, clearly very effective, general-purpose cartridge.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pratchett View Post
Anyway, now we add identity to how someone grew up: stories from their grandfathers they can't even recall hearing, but were cemented with the smell of pipe smoke and the joy of being allowed into the campfire ring to talk "grown-up things."
For my Dad, that probably would've been the .38-40, which Grandpa taught him how to shoot (Grandpa did have an M1903 .30-06, BTW). But Dad was open to others as well. So am I, as previously noted.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pratchett View Post
Like why the .30-06 is the greatest, most versatile rifle cartridge ever devised by man.

THE 30-06 IS KING OF THE WORLD!!! ARE YOU ATTACKING ME!!??



But seriously, it does seem to be a good cartridge on its own merits.
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  #133  
Old 08-03-2020, 7:37 PM
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The most versatile? One rifle, one planet, Holland's 375.

Small game and elephant with solids, medium and large game with soft points.

And all done with recoil that women can handle.


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  #134  
Old 08-04-2020, 4:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Fjold View Post
The most versatile? One rifle, one planet, Holland's 375.

Small game and elephant with solids, medium and large game with soft points.

And all done with recoil that women can handle.


Haven't fired one yet, but my understanding is that the .375 H&H is one of the other really versatile cartridges that can "do it all". From what I read, it's furthermore a precise shooter regardless of bullet weight.
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  #135  
Old 08-04-2020, 5:01 AM
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OK, so let's see what we've got here. Plenty of pretty good input in this thread.

1.) Manufacturers are trying to sell more product and thus come up with new cartridges (the "new shiny thing") to do so. Example: Winchester's .350 Legend and its deviations from the .357AR wildcat that inspired it.

2.) Gun writers have a financial incentive to do likewise to support their ad-purchasing customers (i. e. gun manufacturers). This is like all the puff pieces about Microsoft Windows in tech publications for the last several decades. Again, a good recent example would be the .350 Legend.

3.) There are the so-called "keyboard commandos" who want to sound cool by promoting the "new shiny thing" and automatically dismissing the "old", even if they haven't actually done very much shooting. This reminds me of the "tacticool" folks who seemingly cannot hit a barn wall from the inside, but they're kitted up like they're going into combat. I have met just such folks.

4.) There are also those who do shoot and are knowledgeable, whose problem is not really with the cartridge itself, but with some of its adherents who turn up their noses at any "damned Johnny-Come-Lately".

The problem with all of the above is that the cartridge itself has a lot of merit to it by any objective standard. There's a good reason why it remains one of the most popular cartridges in the United States and even abroad, and it's not *just* its history as a US military cartridge. That's certainly a factor, but it wouldn't remain popular to this day, and it wouldn't have been a US military cartridge in the first place, if it actually did suck.

Criticism #4 is the one that, for me, has the most validity. Cartridges, like rifles, are tools, let's all remember. I own a Ford truck. Doesn't mean I despise Chevy/GMC or Dodge/Ram; I just wanted a stick-shift, and a local Ford dealer had one in stock with the Diesel engine. If they hadn't, then know that I very nearly bought a GMC Duramax/Allison, as I really liked that truck, too.

Now, why do *I* have a .30-06?

Well, it's more like, "why not?" I was actually shopping for a 7mm-08 at the time. The .30-06 was priced such that I simply could not say no, and by that time I knew enough about the .30-06's merits to be open-minded to it as well, so I bought it.

Why don't I have, say, a 6.5mm Creedmoor or 6.5mm Lapua, given the merits of *those* cartridges?

It's because I'm already financially invested in, and set up to reload, 7mm's and 7.62mm's (.30 cal), and between those two, they do what I need. The 7mm bullets also have some really high BC's and do buck the wind very well. Were I not already invested, then sure, I'd look at a 6.5C. Same reason I got the .30-06; I was already reloading .308 Win, and I can use the same projectiles and even some (not all) of the same reloading dies for both cartridges if I'm in a pinch. The H4895 and BL-C(2) that I already use for the .308 Win also work very well in the .30-06. And all three of them (including 7mm-08) shoot well even out to 1,000 yards, so 500 yards is no problem.

I know, "Ford/Chevy/Dodge". I get that. As it happens, I like Ford...Chevy...and Dodge! It's sort of like the TV show Walker, Texas Ranger had all three on the show. I know, "Chuck Norris had the Dodge, though!" OK. :-) But all three were on the show, because all three are good.

Whichever you choose, I'm just glad you're out there practicing your marksmanship. ABOVE ALL OTHER RELEVANT CONSIDERATIONS...that's the thing we need the most. We need people out there doing it, I don't care what your cartridge of choice is.
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  #136  
Old 08-04-2020, 6:12 AM
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3006 is a bit over kill for California and take more powder to reload then the 308.
CA has elk.
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  #137  
Old 08-04-2020, 7:08 AM
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CA has elk.
Calif. will have elk........until the wolves find them and then there will be none.
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  #138  
Old 08-04-2020, 8:48 AM
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Just north of the golden gate bridge looking east is grizzly island.
A 13 year old girl shot one and was on the California fish and game handout cover a little while back.
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  #139  
Old 08-04-2020, 8:56 AM
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Now, why do *I* have a .30-06?
I have a couple C/R 30-06 rifles. so I am familiar with it, have shot it etc.

But my choosing the 30-06 in a modern rifle would be due to my primary interest in rifles being for general purpose. One rifle to do many things well to very well, but can live with the ok for the outlier less likely uses.

for this interest the 30-06 is the right choice. there is nothing I can think of that I might even remotely might need to shoot in NA or SA, Europe, much of Africa that the 30-06 can't handle and handle well.

For intentional hunting large/dangerous game it would of course not be a first choice. If I was into such pursuits I would acquire the appropriate rifle/cartridge.

Quote:
Why don't I have, say, a 6.5mm Creedmoor or 6.5mm Lapua, given the merits of *those* cartridges?
For me, it is because these fine cartridges do not bring to the table anything of value over the 308 or 30-06 for what I am interested in doing with a rifle.

Having said that, if I suddenly develop the itch for the PRS type games, you better believe I am investing in the new more competitive options.
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