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Competition, Action Shooting And Training. Competition, Three gun, IPSC, IDPA , and Training discussion here.

View Poll Results: What are your feelings about Front Sight?
Great Training for Beginners Only. 88 8.33%
Great Training Beginner and Advanced. 696 65.85%
The Quality of Training is Going Down Hill. 24 2.27%
I paid too much for my Membership! 47 4.45%
They will go out of business this year! 31 2.93%
Don't want anything to do with them! 171 16.18%
Voters: 1057. You may not vote on this poll

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  #11881  
Old 06-27-2020, 7:08 PM
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Thanks, Vinnie. Please tell us how your gun (and you) perform in class.


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  #11882  
Old 06-28-2020, 7:57 PM
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So a couple of comments about Front sight and the level of training offered in the 4 day handgun class. I must say the quality is pretty high compared to what I went through today for my CCW class today.
Even what front sight sent out for the Florida CCW training had more real life info to use than what was supplied for information. Then seeing what qualifies as competent versus what Front Sight does was surprising. In short, I liked Front Sight to begin with but value the training even more when stacked up against what else is out there.
  #11883  
Old 06-29-2020, 7:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by damon1272 View Post
So a couple of comments about Front sight and the level of training offered in the 4 day handgun class. I must say the quality is pretty high compared to what I went through today for my CCW class today.
Even what front sight sent out for the Florida CCW training had more real life info to use than what was supplied for information. Then seeing what qualifies as competent versus what Front Sight does was surprising. In short, I liked Front Sight to begin with but value the training even more when stacked up against what else is out there.

Agreed. The CCW qualification is akin to a drivers test.


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  #11884  
Old 07-09-2020, 6:11 PM
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awful quiet around here.
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  #11885  
Old 07-09-2020, 7:29 PM
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I know. Not much to talk about until September.
  #11886  
Old 07-09-2020, 8:12 PM
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Well, we can talk about classes we signed up for.

I have a 1-day Precision Rifle Fundamentals followed by 4-day Precision Rifle when FS opens up.

Brand new bolt action rifle too. I better iron out all the kinks in a couple of months.


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  #11887  
Old 07-09-2020, 8:40 PM
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I'm trying to get at least 4 trips in between Sept and mid Nov before it starts getting too cold.
Lots of pistol classes in my near future
  #11888  
Old 07-09-2020, 10:12 PM
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9/9 Shotgun SB
10/7 Rifle Marksmanship SB
11/16 2 Day Rifle SB
  #11889  
Old 07-10-2020, 12:47 PM
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9/11 - Handgun
10/2 - Handgun
10/23 - Rifle
11/13 - Handgun.
  #11890  
Old 07-13-2020, 1:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jedi54 View Post
9/11 - Handgun
10/2 - Handgun
10/23 - Rifle
11/13 - Handgun.
Work or play?
  #11891  
Old 07-13-2020, 2:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jedi54 View Post
9/11 - Handgun
10/2 - Handgun
10/23 - Rifle
11/13 - Handgun.
Jedi,
I am extremely jealous. If only I lived in NV, and was retired, and had a lot of money for ammo, and my kids were not still in school, and.... Well, just say I am jealous...
  #11892  
Old 07-13-2020, 2:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by acegunnr View Post
Work or play?
there's a difference?
when are we bringing Team Charlie back together?
Quote:
Originally Posted by NorthBay Shooter View Post
Jedi,
I am extremely jealous. If only I lived in NV, and was retired, and had a lot of money for ammo, and my kids were not still in school, and.... Well, just say I am jealous...
I live in Cali and am not retired but not having any kids, especially those in school does let me divert funds to the ammo stash.
  #11893  
Old 07-13-2020, 2:40 PM
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Did anyone notice the change to the banner on the my front sight page. It now says members co-op. Has that been there for a while and I just never noticed?
  #11894  
Old 07-15-2020, 8:04 AM
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Northbay, can you take a screenshot?
I don't see a change.
  #11895  
Old 07-15-2020, 8:42 AM
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It’s after you log in.

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  #11896  
Old 07-15-2020, 9:38 AM
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weird, mine doesn't show that.
you guys and your fancy memberships...
  #11897  
Old 07-15-2020, 11:49 AM
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not sure it's a fancy membership thing. I also noticed that the vendor stuff is not working right now. I wanted to see what FS was charging for 9mm these days but ammo club is unavailable.
  #11898  
Old 07-15-2020, 12:50 PM
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just looked,


Quote:
Welcome to Front Sight Approved Vendors!
The site is undergoing some improvement right now.
Front Sight Approved Vendors is undergoing some maintenance and improvements.
Thank you for your patience.
I doubt they even have much ammo coming in right now with everyone's inventory being so low.

Heck, yesterday was the first time in over a month that sgammo.com had any 9mm in stock and it was 30 cents a round.
  #11899  
Old 07-16-2020, 8:53 PM
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Hello,

Could anyone tell me if there is a trigger pull weight limit in the Rifle Marksmanship class? The Practical Rifle is listed as 4 lb minimum but I don't see a minimum for the Marksmanship class.

Thank you for any insight.
  #11900  
Old 07-17-2020, 5:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rustyeleio View Post
Hello,

Could anyone tell me if there is a trigger pull weight limit in the Rifle Marksmanship class? The Practical Rifle is listed as 4 lb minimum but I don't see a minimum for the Marksmanship class.

Thank you for any insight.
The two times I have taken it, everyone went through the same weapons check as the handgunners and Practical Rifle people, so I would think the limit is 4 lbs just like anyone else.

With that said, there is some subjectivity with each inspector. Some will let you slide with light triggers and some will pull out the trigger pull gauge and send you to the armorer for a $300 butt reaming.

If you shoot an AR, carry a spare lower with a 4 lb trigger just in case you don’t pass.


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  #11901  
Old 07-17-2020, 8:33 AM
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Beans2 is correct 4# trigger required as all go through weapons inspection. 4# is manageable. Optics, Good ammo, and having your rifle sights in at 50 yards will Be your biggest help. You won’t sight in till the second day IIRC.
  #11902  
Old 07-18-2020, 10:22 AM
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That 4# trigger applies to ARs. I’ve taken the RM class a couple of times with a REM 700 with 1.5# trigger. They slam the buttstock on the table or their knee to assure it is safe.
  #11903  
Old 07-18-2020, 11:17 AM
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Good afternoon!

Since I still have to take the 4D Practical Rifle class, am looking for suggestions, etc.

Background: I am right-handed by LEFT-eye dominant. As such, I shoot handguns right-handed but using my left-eye. However, I use long guns (carbines, shotguns, etc.) left-handed! A few reasons - (1) I cannot keep both eyes open to focus on my right non-dominant eye on the scope and (2) I also cannot close my dominant left-eye so I can focus on my right non-dominant eye.


Since manipulations are part of the test, I am concerned of being disadvantaged by being left-handed with a right-handed firearm. A few options that I could think of are:
  • Shoot right-handed with a scope, but have an eye-patch over my dominant left-eye on my eye-wear. I do this, for example, when shooting precision with a Rem 700. Although there were a few drills (in another school) that I was hampered because of the reduced peripheral vision.
  • Shoot right-handed, but instead of a scope, have a red dot system. I am thinking of using a Trijicon MRO with a 2.0MOA (or any other system that allows for two eyes open, EoTech?). However, since I am NOT a red-dot shooter with long guns - I am concerned about the 50-yard and 100-yard shots.
  • Just get on shooting left-handed with a scope, and just practice the manipulations to time. One person told me to add an extended bolt catch since I already have a BCM ambi charger.

BTW, my AR15 is a stock Spike's Tactical Crusader made CA-compliant with a Thordsen Type 2 fixed length stock and a Vortex Strike Eagle 1-6x24 usually set at 3x.


Thanks in advanced!


PS: I tried posting the same question in another online FS group - and some of the responses drove me nuts, ie., "iron sights are sufficient," "train as you'd fight," "put in the time to practice," etc. OR they go about suggesting their favorite optics and/or red-dot. Please none of those... Thanks!



_

Last edited by rodralig; 07-18-2020 at 11:19 AM..
  #11904  
Old 07-18-2020, 11:33 AM
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I have the same situation - right handed, left eye dominant. I have learned to shoot rifles left handed. I have found some advantages to using my dominant right hand to manipulate magazines and charging handles. I have used low power scopes and red dots in that class. Practice on pie plates and 100 yds and you’ll do well. That Vortex is a great choice. Set it at 1-2x close in. You’ll have time to adjust to 6x at 100 yds.
  #11905  
Old 07-18-2020, 11:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 6.5Grendelfan View Post
I have the same situation - right handed, left eye dominant. I have learned to shoot rifles left handed. I have found some advantages to using my dominant right hand to manipulate magazines and charging handles. I have used low power scopes and red dots in that class. Practice on pie plates and 100 yds and you’ll do well. That Vortex is a great choice. Set it at 1-2x close in. You’ll have time to adjust to 6x at 100 yds.
Woot! Key points to note! Thanks!

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  #11906  
Old 07-18-2020, 5:27 PM
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Rodralig
You will zero at 50 for this class. Do yourself a favor and sight in before the class. I have done the class scoped and with red dot. I prefer the scope though it can be done with a red dot. I ran a 1x4 and a Trijicon 2 Moa.
Personally I would run the course how you shoot a rifle best left handed Then change to right handed operation for malfunctions if you are looking to DG out of the gate.
I have seen folks run eye patches and it helped a lot. You could run the rifle as it was designed with a pistol grip once out of state and then separate the upper from the lower for transport.
  #11907  
Old 07-18-2020, 5:50 PM
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rodralig,

Not sure how it works with your Vortex but read on the Bindon Aiming Concept:
https://gunmagwarehouse.com/blog/bindon-aiming-concept/
and see if it works for you shooting right handed.


Too bad you are not shooting an AK. AKs are perfect for left handed shooting and malfunction clearance. Up until Rifle Marksmanship, all I shot at FS were AKs. For distances involved in Practical Rifle, AKs can keep up with ARs.



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  #11908  
Old 07-19-2020, 10:21 AM
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Thanks for the comments folks! Much appreciated!

I know that FS won't open until September... And that, still no having any guarantees.



Quote:
Originally Posted by 6.5Grendelfan View Post
Practice on pie plates and 100 yds and you’ll do well. That Vortex is a great choice. Set it at 1-2x close in. You’ll have time to adjust to 6x at 100 yds.
I have mine set at 3x - works good for me at 50.

That said, what do you mean by having time to adjust? According to the rifle handbook - it's 5-secs. I would need to drop to prone, set my body, prop the rifle, etc.



Quote:
Originally Posted by damon1272 View Post
You will zero at 50 for this class. Do yourself a favor and sight in before the class. I have done the class scoped and with red dot.
Noted!

My scope is sighted in at 100-yards. Any reason for 50...?

Quote:
Personally I would run the course how you shoot a rifle best left handed Then change to right handed operation for malfunctions if you are looking to DG out of the gate.
Wow! I never thought of that... Yes, I guess based on folks' advice - I will most probably run it left-handed...

I just did a few dry practice reps this morning... I am definitely more comfortable shooting left-handed with long guns. It felt a bit awkward when I tried shooting right-handed even with a patch.

I guess muscle memory developed adapting to my cross-eye dominance...

I just need to add an extended catch. Although my trigger finger can reach it, it requires a bit more effort to release.


Quote:
I have seen folks run eye patches and it helped a lot. You could run the rifle as it was designed with a pistol grip once out of state and then separate the upper from the lower for transport.
Too much work, and wouldn't want to "jinx" it, ie., like cleaning/lubing a firearm just before a match.



Quote:
Originally Posted by beanz2 View Post
Not sure how it works with your Vortex but read on the Bindon Aiming Concept:
https://gunmagwarehouse.com/blog/bindon-aiming-concept/
and see if it works for you shooting right handed.
No. BAC doesn't work for the Vortex. It's kind of hazy using left handed with ghost images of the frame of the scope. Totally useless when right-handed.

Quote:
Too bad you are not shooting an AK. AKs are perfect for left handed shooting and malfunction clearance. Up until Rifle Marksmanship, all I shot at FS were AKs. For distances involved in Practical Rifle, AKs can keep up with ARs.
Now you tell me?? Hahahaha!!!



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  #11909  
Old 07-19-2020, 10:35 AM
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Rodraling
The 50 yard zero gives you basically a 50 and 200-220 yard zero with your shot being about 2” high at 100.
The adjusting the scope at 100 you will be standing so making a quick adjustment is easy. You can choose to go prone for stability but you burn half you time getting into position. They will also have you try kneeling and or sitting. Use what works easiest and best for you.
I threw my back out both classes trying to do prone. After doing the marksman course I can now do the shot at 100 standing with sling support. 5 seconds standing feels like an eternity. You will still shoot faster than almost all and guys will rush their shots thinking they are out of time.

Last edited by damon1272; 07-19-2020 at 1:40 PM..
  #11910  
Old 07-19-2020, 10:40 AM
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+1

People spend way too much time, energy, and anxiety getting into prone. And after burning through 4 sec, they try to relax, breath, and squeeze off a shot in the last second.

I found getting a good tight sling supported standing position is better with high success at 12” circle at 100yds. Gets you into practice for the standing shot at 5” circle from 50yds in the Marksmanship class.
  #11911  
Old 07-19-2020, 11:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by damon1272 View Post
The adjusting the scope at 100 you will be standing so making a quick adjustment is easy. You can choose to go prone for stability but you burn half you time getting into position. They will also have you try kneeling and or sitting. Use what works easiest and best for you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 6.5Grendelfan View Post
+1

People spend way too much time, energy, and anxiety getting into prone. And after burning through 4 sec, they try to relax, breath, and squeeze off a shot in the last second.

Oh! You don't need to go prone... But according to the handbook you only get an Achievement certificate if you do all the same positions. No?

I know I can hit 100-yards out while standing. But these were steel silhouettes. Never tried it with a smaller target. I am assuming the same target as the handgun classes, right?



Quote:
I found getting a good tight sling supported standing position is better with high success at 12” circle at 100yds.
Noted! Thanks!

Will try a few setups in dry practice...



That said, I went back to the safe and did my adminstrative condition checks and proceeded to try Type 1 and Type 2 clearances at 1.6-sec and 1.8-sec, respectively. It is possible even LEFT-handed. I just need to smoothen it out in practice (albeit, gets tiring quick because I am flipping the rifle CW with my weaker left)... And maybe get a longer ambi CH (my BCM is 'medium' size)...

I would believe Type 3 is untimed - so....



Thank you!!!


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  #11912  
Old 07-19-2020, 12:25 PM
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If I remember correctly, you cannot G or DG if you STAY in the position @100 yards. Part of the test is getting to prone, sit, etc from standing for each shot. Of course, standing does not count. You can stand for all 5 shots without penalty.
I agree unless you can get down quick, taking the 100 from standing is an advantage.


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  #11913  
Old 07-19-2020, 12:38 PM
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Burpee prone saves you 0.5 sec LOL

Don’t do this with a fin grip though.


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  #11914  
Old 07-20-2020, 12:24 PM
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I can't speak to eye dominance, but i did the 100 yard shots by jumping into prone; took my sweet *** time getting back up though . Get some good knee and elbow pads and get some reps in. I think you have the youth/ mobility to use prone.

I didn't trust my aim to anything of the other positions because they felt too unstable, *inconsistent*, and figured if i were getting shot at that i would make myself small anyways.

Yes, same target as the handgun classes

Technically, IIRC, FS requires you to adjust the zoom on your rifle to the same at every string. So if you start with 1x at the 7 yard shot, you'll have to start with 1x at the 100 yard shot, and adjusting your zoom comes as a part of your presentation of the weapon. That's what grendel fan is talking about: at 100yards you have 5 seconds to adjust zoom, get into firing position of your choice, and shoot
  #11915  
Old 07-20-2020, 12:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dad4mnc View Post
If I remember correctly, you cannot G or DG if you STAY in the position @100 yards. Part of the test is getting to prone, sit, etc from standing for each shot. Of course, standing does not count. You can stand for all 5 shots without penalty.
I agree unless you can get down quick, taking the 100 from standing is an advantage.


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Not sure about that. I’ve taken the class twice, 4-day and SB, and done the 100yd standing. I was never told that I wouldn’t get a “shiny sticker” unless I assumed an alternative platform. I earned a “G” both times.
  #11916  
Old 07-20-2020, 12:56 PM
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Could be, that’s the way I understood the directions at my last class. I’ll be able to try again (hopefully) in October.


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Old 07-20-2020, 2:25 PM
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Is shooting from an alternative platform at 100 yd a new requirement for DG? Anything but standing, right? What about for the disabled? I never heard that before, but of course things can change.

Shooting prone is my preferred rifle shooting platform for me past 50 yd anyway. At least if accuracy is involved.


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  #11918  
Old 07-20-2020, 2:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dad4mnc View Post
Could be, that’s the way I understood the directions at my last class. I’ll be able to try again (hopefully) in October.
Quote:
Originally Posted by beanz2 View Post
Is shooting from an alternative platform at 100 yd a new requirement for DG? Anything but standing, right? What about for the disabled? I never heard that before, but of course things can change




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  #11919  
Old 07-20-2020, 3:26 PM
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When I took the 4day rifle course a couple of years ago I know there was at least one guy who DG'd and shot standing at 100. I remember because he actually didn't miss any shots on the test. I dropped to the prone at 100 and it wasn't too bad with knee pads and a glove on my support hand.
  #11920  
Old 07-20-2020, 3:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rodralig View Post




_

That’s what I was referring to, staying in the sitting, prone, etc and no getting up between shots. Again, I may be interpreting that incorrect.
It makes sense. Dropping to a position from standing gets your pulse up. Staying in position would have a definite advantage.


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