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Centerfire Rifles - Semiautomatic or Gas Operated Centerfire rifles, carbines and other gas operated rifles.

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  #1  
Old 10-10-2018, 3:27 PM
4GLOCK30 4GLOCK30 is online now
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Default "Good" Red Dot micro?

I know you typically get what you pay for....with that said is there a good red dot in the $150 range or do you need to drop $300-$500. The later I can't justify.

This is for a Ruger PCC so not really something I would use much beyond 50-100 yards and primarily in the 50 yard range

I did use the Bushnell TR 25 and did not like it. Turning it up enough to see in bright daylight just turned it into a blur

Is the Primary Arms or Vortex $150 ones any better than the $50 Bushnell?

Recommendations appreciated

Being able to turn it off without taking battery out would be good
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  #2  
Old 10-10-2018, 3:36 PM
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vortex, Primary Arms and holosun

those are the three i would consider in the good cheap small red dot sector.

if you want to up the cost a little bit, nikon and sig sauer are new players in the small red dot game.
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  #3  
Old 10-10-2018, 3:44 PM
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Do you have astigmatism?
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  #4  
Old 10-10-2018, 3:51 PM
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Do you have astigmatism?
no but I do wear contacts
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  #5  
Old 10-10-2018, 3:54 PM
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Originally Posted by tradecraft View Post
Do you have astigmatism?
I do. Does that make a difference?
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  #6  
Old 10-10-2018, 3:59 PM
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If you saw a blob...there are two possibilities....the first is that the unit was defective, while the second is that you have astigmatism.

If you have it...you won't see a circle...you'll see a starburst type thing.

One way to check is if you have a rear back up sight...pop it up and look at the circle through that. If it suddenly becomes oh so clear...you have astigmatism...
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  #7  
Old 10-10-2018, 4:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scratch705 View Post
vortex, Primary Arms and holosun

those are the three i would consider in the good cheap small red dot sector.

if you want to up the cost a little bit, nikon and sig sauer are new players in the small red dot game.
yeah have this Vortex on my "list" on Amazon

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B079BY7QMC...v_ov_lig_dp_it

and this Primary Arms

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0783HPMTH...v_ov_lig_dp_it

Leaning towards the Primary Arms one....but IDK how much better these are over the $50 Bushnell....
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  #8  
Old 10-10-2018, 4:08 PM
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I run a Vortex Razor 3 MOA on my Ruger.

Here is my setup:






bbcode image
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  #9  
Old 10-10-2018, 4:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alexisjohnson View Post
If you saw a blob...there are two possibilities....the first is that the unit was defective, while the second is that you have astigmatism.

...
No it was not blurry...it was just really hard to "see" the red dot in bright sunlight

The holosun on the AR, WAY WAY better...but yeah it costs $

Given this one is for the Ruger PCC and mostly short yard (50-70 yards) shooting I was hopeful to not have to drop $300 to "see" the dot without "searching" for it

I get the $49 Bushnell is...well cheap and low end for red dots...just hopeful a $150 is considerably better
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  #10  
Old 10-10-2018, 5:05 PM
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Holosun is nice.

Ive had bad luck with just about every vortex red dot product failing with only range plinking use. The holosun is about the only chinese optic that i feel is really good quality that I will buy. And their customer service is 2nd to none.
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  #11  
Old 10-10-2018, 5:08 PM
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The Bushnell TRS-25 is the best bang for your low priced Red Dot buck out there.

They run anywhere from $60 -$110 depending on what time of year and if you get the one with the built in riser (for AR's)

Any big website like Midway Optics Planet mIdsouth will have literally hundreds of reviews at 4.5 and above.

I have 6 of these sights and not one has burped or farted even once. They all perform flawlessly on my Carbines, .22, and even on my Scout Rifle or Shotgun.

If the gun is a 300 yard gun you can definitely hit with this sight.

Excellent sight and don't let the $ fool you. Sometimes you get alot more for your money than you thought you would.

Try one ,, You'll like it.

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  #12  
Old 10-10-2018, 5:09 PM
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I have the Sig Romeo 5 on my Ruger. It's my first RD so I'm no expert with them but I like it a lot and the rifle is very accurate with it.
Indoors it looks a bit starish to me and turning the power down helps. Outdoors it looks much clearer to me. I was also looking at the Vortex Sparc but found a deal on the Sig first for around $125 shipped through a sale at Midway. Last Labor day PSA had them for a bit less - around $120 I think. The Sig senses movement so it turns itself off after a few minuets if left still & powers up as soon as you pick it up or move it. Pretty nice little RD IMO. Good luck.
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  #13  
Old 10-10-2018, 5:48 PM
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The second generation vortex rds is my go to.
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  #14  
Old 10-10-2018, 7:53 PM
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I've tried a gambit of the economy red dots, you can get the Romeo 5 for under $125 now, j think that's the best bang for your buck: motion activated 40k-50k battery life, good Warranty. People say it's rebadged holosun
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  #15  
Old 10-10-2018, 8:33 PM
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I have a Vortex Venom in my AK and love it, a little higher price but good quality, might be able to get a good deal somewhere.

If you have a red dot that is blurry and want to check if its the dot or your eyes take a picture of the dot with your phone. If its blurry in the picture its the dot, if its clear is your eyes
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  #16  
Old 10-11-2018, 1:36 AM
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I have reddots from 30 bucks no-name ones (fun for my plinking 10/22) to Trijicon ACOG (damn, does it need to be that expensive.)

In general, we really get what we pay for.

For plinking I don’t mind to throw in a cheaper reddot, yet for (life depending) defense firearms I use Aimpoint Pro (or equivalents) as my minimum standard.

(P.S. to answer OP’s question... at his budget the Sig Romeo5 is a good fun choice, which is a knock-off of Holosun, and which is a knock-off of Aimpoint, I think.)
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  #17  
Old 10-11-2018, 2:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4GLOCK30 View Post

I did use the Bushnell TR 25 and did not like it. Turning it up enough to see in bright daylight just turned it into a blur
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4GLOCK30 View Post
No it was not blurry...it was just really hard to "see" the red dot in bright sunlight
If you have free time, can you take a picture of the dot doing the above?
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  #18  
Old 10-11-2018, 7:26 AM
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I'm very happy with my Vortex Sparc AR.

Of all the micro red dots I think this one is the best.
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  #19  
Old 10-11-2018, 7:50 AM
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Now considering a 2.5x Illuminated prism "scope" vs a Red Dot..Primary Arms

https://www.primaryarms.com/primary-...pac2-5x?page=2

for 25-100 yards (realistic use range for the 9mm) I think some "magnification" vs a 1x Red Dot would work better for me
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  #20  
Old 10-11-2018, 11:50 AM
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i have a vortex spitfire (1X prism) on my scorpion PC.

i got the 3X spitfire and returned it. I didn't like the additional magnification between the two. i LOVE the prism reticle. I almost never have to even turn on the illumination (but it's nice to know i have it, if i need it.)

from what I've read, even the smaller venom and viper red dots are popular with PCs.
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  #21  
Old 10-11-2018, 11:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Speedkills66 View Post
I'm very happy with my Vortex Sparc AR.

Of all the micro red dots I think this one is the best.
That one is REALLY bad if you have an astigmatism. Originally had one of these on my AR and the "comma" was horrid! Eventually changed to a strike eagle (prism).

Now have the Sparc AR on my microroni... still has the comma, but doesn't matter as much with the way i use that vs the way i use the AR.
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Old 10-11-2018, 1:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4GLOCK30 View Post
Now considering a 2.5x Illuminated prism "scope" vs a Red Dot..Primary Arms

https://www.primaryarms.com/primary-...pac2-5x?page=2

for 25-100 yards (realistic use range for the 9mm) I think some "magnification" vs a 1x Red Dot would work better for me
i got one of these too....i'd take a red dot over this if max is going to be a 100 yards on a fairly large target; red dot's faster, you don't have an eye-box for the scope, ie you can see the dot from weird shooting positions.
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  #23  
Old 10-11-2018, 1:16 PM
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I would argue with anyone here when I say that primary arms is the best bang for your buck on the cheap scope scale. They've also got a better warranty and customer service than many expensive scopes.

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  #24  
Old 10-11-2018, 1:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by W.R.Buchanan View Post
The Bushnell TRS-25 is the best bang for your low priced Red Dot buck out there.

.

Try one ,, You'll like it.
He stated from the first post that he tried it but doesn't like it.
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  #25  
Old 10-11-2018, 2:35 PM
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Default Vortex Sparc /Sparc AR

I have both of these and like them. Lifetime warranty on the Vortex stuff is nice. Their customer service is also top notch from my experience. Have 3 -4 of their optics I like a lot. Lot of friends went the PA route and have been very happy with their PA red dots as well.
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  #26  
Old 10-11-2018, 3:00 PM
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Primary Arms with 12 pmags from PSA $179.

That's a deal
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  #27  
Old 10-11-2018, 3:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TS77 View Post
i got one of these too....i'd take a red dot over this if max is going to be a 100 yards on a fairly large target; red dot's faster, you don't have an eye-box for the scope, ie you can see the dot from weird shooting positions.
IDK if I am going to like the 2.5x more than a Red Dot ($150-$200 range). I have tried the $49 Bushnel which, for me, was week on the "dot" in bright sunlight. Also a Holoson which is very nice but $300

I think I will like the magnification of the 2.5 and the clarity of the Reticle

I can audition the PA Red Dot and the 2.5x onto the same target and decide which one I like.

I can swap the 2.5x over to my AR for the 100-300+ yard stuff. The PCC is a 25-100 yard gun. Yeah it can easily reach out to 300 yards compensating for drop but 9mm not packing a big punch like the AR at that range
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  #28  
Old 10-11-2018, 3:17 PM
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PA 1x Cyclops looks pretty good for those of us with astigmatism.

My next optic purchase.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=MIc2q6ZWFvk
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  #29  
Old 10-14-2018, 10:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4GLOCK30 View Post
I know you typically get what you pay for....with that said is there a good red dot in the $150 range or do you need to drop $300-$500. The later I can't justify.

This is for a Ruger PCC so not really something I would use much beyond 50-100 yards and primarily in the 50 yard range

I did use the Bushnell TR 25 and did not like it. Turning it up enough to see in bright daylight just turned it into a blur

Is the Primary Arms or Vortex $150 ones any better than the $50 Bushnell?

Recommendations appreciated

Being able to turn it off without taking battery out would be good
Helo, not sure if anyone has answered with this reply yet, but here it is.

If you are looking for a killer red dot with awesome features look at the Romeo5 by Sig Sauer, it is a 2MOA red dot, auto shut off and auto activation when you pickup the weapon. They call it shake awake, but it comes on by simply just picking up and shouldering the weapon.

This red dot can be had at Palmetto State Armory for about 119.99(On sale) to about 150.00 this is a steal for what are getting. It also comes with a high and low mouth for ar-15 and shotguns or ak's.

Now if you are looking for a circle dot option, look no further than Holosun. They make the are just like the Romeo's just slightly more expensive. I wouldn't be surprise if they are manufactured by the same company as Sig's sights. I have asked Sig and Holosun if Holosun indeed does make the optics for Sig, they always say no, but when you look at construction, glass and the technologies it is hard not to think they are the same product.

I think Holosun circle dot reticle options are the most versatile. 2MOA dot and a 30MOA circle if I remember correctly. Makes close quarters target acquisition very very fast and longer distance accuracy easy with the 2MOA dot.
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  #30  
Old 10-14-2018, 10:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4GLOCK30 View Post
no but I do wear contacts
Most people have mild astigmatisms that do not require glasses or contacts, however when you see lasers or l.e.d being projected back via a glass, you will see the red dot less crisp than people who aren't affected.

I have a mild astigmatism, I see a round dot, but I see lot's of little dots that make up the red dot. or I will see a slanted comma that becomes circular. I can remedy this by using a circle dot instead of just a dot and looking through the dot instead of at it. If I look through the dot, and see my target the circle dot or red dot looks very very crisp. When I focus on the dot I start to see mild distortion.
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  #31  
Old 10-14-2018, 10:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toamaius View Post
Most people have mild astigmatisms that do not require glasses or contacts, however when you see lasers or l.e.d being projected back via a glass, you will see the red dot less crisp than people who aren't affected.

I have a mild astigmatism, I see a round dot, but I see lot's of little dots that make up the red dot. or I will see a slanted comma that becomes circular. I can remedy this by using a circle dot instead of just a dot and looking through the dot instead of at it. If I look through the dot, and see my target the circle dot or red dot looks very very crisp. When I focus on the dot I start to see mild distortion.
Interesting. So, the Holosun you speak of above would work better for you than the Romeo...?
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  #32  
Old 10-14-2018, 11:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4GLOCK30 View Post
I know you typically get what you pay for....with that said is there a good red dot in the $150 range or do you need to drop $300-$500. The later I can't justify.

This is for a Ruger PCC so not really something I would use much beyond 50-100 yards and primarily in the 50 yard range

I did use the Bushnell TR 25 and did not like it. Turning it up enough to see in bright daylight just turned it into a blur

Is the Primary Arms or Vortex $150 ones any better than the $50 Bushnell?

Recommendations appreciated

Being able to turn it off without taking battery out would be good
I you are truly looking to spend 150.00 max, then the Romeo5 or a Holosun are going to be the best options. However, if you spend 100.00-200.00 more you get better product.

My 2 favorite red dots that do not break the bank are, made by Holosun.

Here are my most recommended models, they are very similar to each other, minor differences in their waterproof ratings and some other stuff.

Holosun HS515CU and HS515GM

They both come with high and low quick detachable mouths, built in lens covers ect.. They are both are circle dot reticle models. The HS515GM is military grade and the lens covers are clear. I asked Holosun about the solar powered G model, they said only better when shooting outdoors in sun, that they do not recommend it to be on automatic brightness indoors, so essentially for home defense, solar and battery powered one would be the same.

That is why I chose the HS515GM(battery only) over the solar powered model.

Here is the non military grade solar powered model on my Vang Comp Systems 870. When not at outdoor range I run it in manual mode which has auto shutoff and shake awake. At range I use the auto features/solar power.
I decided for my shotgun to take off lens caps as they were a little bulky when uncapped as they are not see through.



I decided to use the HS515GM on my ar-15
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  #33  
Old 10-14-2018, 11:43 AM
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Only rifles I have with scopes are my 308 and 22. AR & PCC are iron as is my shotgun.

I have used a Holoson but it was a $300 model. It was OK...but what I need is some "magnification" so trying the PA 2.5x prism scope. Can also use it on the AR. If I don't like it I can return it and use a red dot

This is the Reticle of the scope. It is also illuminated if you are in darker conditions. (black text is not on reticle). The larger outer ring and center horseshoe with center dot should make quick target acquisition...but my main purpose is to see the target better at range with some 2.5 magnification.
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  #34  
Old 10-14-2018, 12:01 PM
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Some of the cheaper RDS mentioned above may be adequate as range plinking toys, however when you need quality that can be depended on, there are three: Trijicon, Aimpoint, or Leupold.
I use the Leupold Deltapoint Pro on my Ruger PCC, and Ruger Mini-30 Tac; after several thousand rounds each both have not failed.
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Old 10-14-2018, 12:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by splithoof View Post
Some of the cheaper RDS mentioned above may be adequate as range plinking toys, however when you need quality that can be depended on, there are three: Trijicon, Aimpoint, or Leupold.
I use the Leupold Deltapoint Pro on my Ruger PCC, and Ruger Mini-30 Tac; after several thousand rounds each both have not failed.
If you have the money for a red dot priced at 500+ USD, go for it. But to come ot and say, ""Some of the cheaper RDS mentioned above may be adequate as range plinking toys, however when you need quality that can be depended on, there are three: Trijicon, Aimpoint, or Leupold." is just ridiculous...

Just cause you are paying more for a RDS does not make it better for it's intended purpose. When you buy are Trijicon, Aimpoint and Leupold you are paying for a name and reputation. Here is my case and point. Buying a Honda, Chevrolet, Kia, Hyundai, Volkswagen or Toyota over buying a BMW, Lexus, Mercedes Benz, Lamborghini, Ferrari ect...

So again, just because they are "budget" options will not make them any less reliable. Don't take my word for it, look up what unbais real world testers like nutnfancy on youtube have to say about Holosun products.

Lets compare a Aimpoint to a Romeo5 beifly.

Aimoint h T1/T2as a 2 MOA reticle and 50,000 hours of battery life on a single cr2032

Romeo5 has 2 MOA reticle, 50,000 hours, has "shake awake" technology which can extend the battery life beyond that on a single battery.

Both are shock proof, waterproof (granted the ipx rating on the Aimpoint T1/T2 is greater depths, but who do you know is going to be scuba diving with their weapons other than operators who aren't really paying for their optics and will be provided by their respective agencies.

I hope you get what I am saying. There is different options across all budgets because some of us make less money than others.
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  #36  
Old 10-14-2018, 1:08 PM
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Certainly getting what you pay for is always part of the equation. IMHO a $200 RD should be fine in terms of function and reliability. Yeah the higher $ ones will have better optics than the lower costs one.

My general problem with "red dots" is they wash out in bright sun to the point I spend to much time "finding" the red dot on target. Yeah my eyes could be better


I have tried a $49 Bushnell and a $300 Holoson. The later I could see "better" but still struggled with seeing the red dot in bright sunlight

In my $ range either the $199 PA or SIG would be the pick...but having tried the $300 Holoson with not overwhelming results I feel "magnification" is what will work better for me. IDK if it will but am trying out the 2.5x prism scope.

I like the smaller size of a RD vs Prism but will see (no pun intended) which one I prefer since I have tried low budget and mid $ RD so far.

My HD is a wheel gun and shot gun so the RD or Prism on the PCC is not for HD, although would be used if it came to it as would every other gun I have.

I appreciate all replies and if the Prism thing does not work for me I will look back into a RD
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Old 10-14-2018, 2:05 PM
Toamaius Toamaius is online now
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Certainly getting what you pay for is always part of the equation. IMHO a $200 RD should be fine in terms of function and reliability. Yeah the higher $ ones will have better optics than the lower costs one.

My general problem with "red dots" is they wash out in bright sun to the point I spend to much time "finding" the red dot on target. Yeah my eyes could be better


I have tried a $49 Bushnell and a $300 Holoson. The later I could see "better" but still struggled with seeing the red dot in bright sunlight

In my $ range either the $199 PA or SIG would be the pick...but having tried the $300 Holoson with not overwhelming results I feel "magnification" is what will work better for me. IDK if it will but am trying out the 2.5x prism scope.

I like the smaller size of a RD vs Prism but will see (no pun intended) which one I prefer since I have tried low budget and mid $ RD so far.

My HD is a wheel gun and shot gun so the RD or Prism on the PCC is not for HD, although would be used if it came to it as would every other gun I have.

I appreciate all replies and if the Prism thing does not work for me I will look back into a RD
I agree, "you get what you pay for" however, there is a such thing as diminishing returns... so paying more won't get you more.

A lot of people like my self with a mild astigmatism find circle dots better than just a red dot. Most red dots nowadays go from bright to nuclear. Both my Holosun HS515CU and HS515GM got super bright and have had zero issues with washout.
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Old 10-14-2018, 2:26 PM
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ZombieLivesMatter ZombieLivesMatter is offline
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If you have the money for a red dot priced at 500+ USD, go for it. But to come ot and say, ""Some of the cheaper RDS mentioned above may be adequate as range plinking toys, however when you need quality that can be depended on, there are three: Trijicon, Aimpoint, or Leupold." is just ridiculous...

Just cause you are paying more for a RDS does not make it better for it's intended purpose. When you buy are Trijicon, Aimpoint and Leupold you are paying for a name and reputation. Here is my case and point. Buying a Honda, Chevrolet, Kia, Hyundai, Volkswagen or Toyota over buying a BMW, Lexus, Mercedes Benz, Lamborghini, Ferrari ect...

So again, just because they are "budget" options will not make them any less reliable. Don't take my word for it, look up what unbais real world testers like nutnfancy on youtube have to say about Holosun products.

Lets compare a Aimpoint to a Romeo5 beifly.

Aimoint h T1/T2as a 2 MOA reticle and 50,000 hours of battery life on a single cr2032

Romeo5 has 2 MOA reticle, 50,000 hours, has "shake awake" technology which can extend the battery life beyond that on a single battery.

Both are shock proof, waterproof (granted the ipx rating on the Aimpoint T1/T2 is greater depths, but who do you know is going to be scuba diving with their weapons other than operators who aren't really paying for their optics and will be provided by their respective agencies.

I hope you get what I am saying. There is different options across all budgets because some of us make less money than others.
I use to think exactly like what you said, until I became a father and focused on a optic for home defense. I believe many "can" afford a quality non-Chinese optic but choose not to because that's a hard pill to swallow when it could buy another gun.
But the specs you list has no bearing on the quality of parts, the quality red dots Splithoof use quality parts with tight QC, the budget China ones are great great value, but if you call Primary Arms or Holosun, their reps will openly tell you not for duty use, give them a call and ask customer service rep.
I personally currently own multiple of the budget Chinese optics such as Sig, Primary Arms, Holosun, and Vortex, I like them all and kept them all. Once I became a father, home defense became a priority, hopefully I never have to use it for home defense but if I did, is my kids lives worth the little money I saved on using a China optic, bit the bullet and bought myself a Aimpoint PRO and then Trijicon MRO.

Once again comes down to what use the optic is for as has been mentioned multiple times, if the user is just using it for range plinking, China optic is fine, but if it's for home defense, then a quality set of Iron Sights would be better than a China optic if budget is restricted.
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Old 10-14-2018, 3:36 PM
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I use to think exactly like what you said, until I became a father and focused on a optic for home defense. I believe many "can" afford a quality non-Chinese optic but choose not to because that's a hard pill to swallow when it could buy another gun.
But the specs you list has no bearing on the quality of parts, the quality red dots Splithoof use quality parts with tight QC, the budget China ones are great great value, but if you call Primary Arms or Holosun, their reps will openly tell you not for duty use, give them a call and ask customer service rep.
I personally currently own multiple of the budget Chinese optics such as Sig, Primary Arms, Holosun, and Vortex, I like them all and kept them all. Once I became a father, home defense became a priority, hopefully I never have to use it for home defense but if I did, is my kids lives worth the little money I saved on using a China optic, bit the bullet and bought myself a Aimpoint PRO and then Trijicon MRO.

Once again comes down to what use the optic is for as has been mentioned multiple times, if the user is just using it for range plinking, China optic is fine, but if it's for home defense, then a quality set of Iron Sights would be better than a China optic if budget is restricted.
I would agree 100%.
I have had a lot of exposure to the various electronic sights over the years, and base my choices on what I have observed.
When one of my kids successfully made it through a rigorous selection process and training in a highly regarded military unit, I started researching the equipment they use. I eventually was able to speak directly with some of the drill instructors about such equipment, including the above discussed RDS's, and their actual field experience. Suffice to say that I stand behind my previous statements.
I appreciate fact that not everyone can presently afford such equipment, and only wish them the best with what they have to work with. However I personally refuse to use what I don't believe in.
BTW, I also drive a few Toyota products 😎
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Old 10-14-2018, 3:38 PM
Toamaius Toamaius is online now
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Originally Posted by ZombieLivesMatter View Post
I use to think exactly like what you said, until I became a father and focused on a optic for home defense. I believe many "can" afford a quality non-Chinese optic but choose not to because that's a hard pill to swallow when it could buy another gun.
But the specs you list has no bearing on the quality of parts, the quality red dots Splithoof use quality parts with tight QC, the budget China ones are great great value, but if you call Primary Arms or Holosun, their reps will openly tell you not for duty use, give them a call and ask customer service rep.
I personally currently own multiple of the budget Chinese optics such as Sig, Primary Arms, Holosun, and Vortex, I like them all and kept them all. Once I became a father, home defense became a priority, hopefully I never have to use it for home defense but if I did, is my kids lives worth the little money I saved on using a China optic, bit the bullet and bought myself a Aimpoint PRO and then Trijicon MRO.

Once again comes down to what use the optic is for as has been mentioned multiple times, if the user is just using it for range plinking, China optic is fine, but if it's for home defense, then a quality set of Iron Sights would be better than a China optic if budget is restricted.
I agree with a lot of what you are saying, however, to say that a Sig Sauer, Holosun, or other type optic that is not an Aimpoint, EoTech, Trijicon ect.. cannot be used for home defense is rather silly.

I too am a father, I am not rich, in fact I would consider myself in the working class as far as income level. I trust my life to either one of my Holosun's which is why they are on my current home defense long guns. My carry handgun and backup gun both have irons. My long guns are set up with back up iron sights and both of the optics are mounted with quick detach levers.

Having a high dollar optic is more of a status symbol, most of us again aren't operating overseas or kicking in doors for an agency. But to say not spending an additional 250.00 dollars for a tier 1 optic is putting your life in danger again is silly. Your money is better off spent on good ammo for home defense and ammo for the range.

I highly recommend Holosun products and the models that I have are HS515CU and HS515GM. The non military grade solar power model(HS515CU) is on my 12 guage, on my last range trip I put without exaggeration, 75 full power slugs, 250+ rounds of various buckshot loads and 500 rounds of birdshot and I also tried out an ammo I saw tested by taofladermaus on youtube from warewolf ammo. Supper super hot loaded buckshot about 150 rounds.

My zero did not shift, optic did not flicker and tested the solar power auto mode and tested the auto shut off and shake awake, it works flawless.

My HS515GM is a battery only shake awake military grade model and it is sitting on my loaded ready to go ar15. I trust my life to them both. I would say for what I paid for both, you can't buy a sinle Aimpoint T1/T2 which would cost anywhere from 50.00 to 100.00 dollars more than both my Holosuns.

Aimpoint can fail, when I was looking for an optic a while back, I was looking at an Aimpoint T2, my friend was kind enough to let me borrow his for a day at the range and it was put on my shotgun and about 250 rounds in, the elecrtonics failed. This was an early model of the T2 known to have these problems, however Aimpoint replaced it on the spot, they said it only affected about 5% of the T2's

After he got a replacement, he was concerned about it being faulty so he let me borrow it again for testing on the 12 gauge again and it has been flawless. No more problems.

What I am getting at is lemons exist no matter what reputation or price range. Again, I will end by saying what I said in earlier replies, if you can afford an Aimpoint or other tier 1 optic and it is in your budge, buy one. But don't feel that if you can't afford said optic you will be less equipped, if you buy a Sig Sauer, Holosun or similar optic don't feel that way. I say buy what you can afford and test your unit in the shotgun, rifle or other weapon you are going to defend your life with. Get as many rounds through it as you can afford. Buying a tier 1 optic and putting it on your weapon and never testing it would not be wise.
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