PPT without Mags

[calif 15-22]

Looking to PPT a Sig P365x but seller only has 12 round mags. Can I PPT without the mags? I have 2 10 round fixed mags on order but they will not be here in time. I’ve heard some places will not transfer without a mag.

Any info would be helpful.

Thanks . . .

[edgerly779]

Ask yout ffl some will and some won't.

[9Cal_OC]

Do you have a CCW? That would exempt you from the safe gun handling demo.

Otherwise, ask your FFL in advance.

[Garv]

Have the seller block them.

Ask the FFL just in case.

[M1NM]

You'll need the mag for the safe handling demo. Explain to the FFL you've got them on order and they should arrive (if they will) by the release date. Is the seller keeping the mags because they have a use for them? If not he or an HiCap dealer could block them to 10.

https://www.magazineblocks.com/magen...miter-9mm.html

[calif 15-22]

Originally Posted by M1NM

You'll need the mag for the safe handling demo. Explain to the FFL you've got them on order and they should arrive (if they will) by the release date. Is the seller keeping the mags because they have a use for them? If not he or an HiCap dealer could block them to 10.

https://www.magazineblocks.com/magen...miter-9mm.html

I bought those exact blocks. I’ll ask the FFL tomorrow. I will have the 10 round non blocked mags by pickup, just not next week.

Seller has the original 12 round, just neither of us have the blocks. Maybe the FFL will.

Thanks everyone for the great info!

[Djantlive]

Seller just block the mag. Put a piece of chopstick or plastic. It’s very easy. Unless you have ccw, one mag is required. LGS is typically best for ppt as chain stores have all sorts rules.

[edgerly779]

You do the firearm safety at end of dros if you have to do it at all. If your ffl is anal then they will ask for mag with start of dros. I have not had to do a firearm safety in a long time.

[taperxz]

FYI. We have no problem doing PPTs but generally only make $10 that the state allows.

We expect everything up front and compliant.

ALL Paperwork present including FSC if needed, and compliant mags. It really is a courtesy to the FFL to make everything as streamlined as possible.

All this helps us get through the process and onto another customer without holding them up while simply trying to buy a couple boxes of ammo and a cleaning kit.

PPTs folks who don’t have all there stuff right and ready are the biggest PITA ever. Again, we do them, have zero problems doing them but dang, customers really should come prepared

The seller should have had a 10 round mag ready for you since he’s probably a cop and knows in order to sell this to the OP needed a 10 round mag. Let him buy the darn mag if he wants to transfer it or commit a crime and give you the 12 round mags. If you block those mags, you may want to epoxy the bottom up too.

[ronlglock]

I answered this same question nearly a year ago. No law says that the mag needs to stay with the gun and no law says the buyer cannot touch a standard cap mag.

Do the safe handling at start of DROS then hand the mag back to the seller.

[taperxz]

Originally Posted by ronlglock

I answered this same question nearly a year ago. No law says that the mag needs to stay with the gun and no law says the buyer cannot touch a standard cap mag.

Do the safe handling at start of DROS then hand the mag back to the seller.

That COULD be considered a transfer of a high cap mag though.

[Djantlive]

Originally Posted by taperxz

FYI. We have no problem doing PPTs but generally only make $10 that the state allows.

We expect everything up front and compliant.

ALL Paperwork present including FSC if needed, and compliant mags. It really is a courtesy to the FFL to make everything as streamlined as possible.

All this helps us get through the process and onto another customer without holding them up while simply trying to buy a couple boxes of ammo and a cleaning kit.

PPTs folks who don’t have all there stuff right and ready are the biggest PITA ever. Again, we do them, have zero problems doing them but dang, customers really should come prepared

The seller should have had a 10 round mag ready for you since he’s probably a cop and knows in order to sell this to the OP needed a 10 round mag. Let him buy the darn mag if he wants to transfer it or commit a crime and give you the 12 round mags. If you block those mags, you may want to epoxy the bottom up too.

This! I see sellers selling without mag. Unless you are selling below the market rate, I see this as a poor form. Same for sellers selling at 3x msrp. You obviously don’t know the market or are hoping to catch someone that is desperate to buy an off roster.

[ronlglock]

Originally Posted by taperxz

That COULD be considered a transfer of a high cap mag though.

Aw rats. I think you’re right. Would need to be blocked before “lending.”

…any person in this state who manufactures or causes to be manufactured, imports into the state, keeps for sale, or offers or exposes for sale, or who gives, lends, buys, or receives any large-capacity magazine is punishable…

[Nardo1895]

Originally Posted by ronlglock

Aw rats. I think you’re right. Would need to be blocked before “lending.”

…any person in this state who manufactures or causes to be manufactured, imports into the state, keeps for sale, or offers or exposes for sale, or who gives, lends, buys, or receives any large-capacity magazine is punishable…

I follow the logic but that seems like a bit of a stretch to me. Could you not use the same logic to preclude a potential buyer from handling a firearm before they purchased it or completed the 10-day wait after purchase? Did you lend them the firearm while they were handling it prior to purchase?

In either case the item has not left your possession and control.

[taperxz]

Originally Posted by Nardo1895

I follow the logic but that seems like a bit of a stretch to me. Could you not use the same logic to preclude a potential buyer from handling a firearm before they purchased it or completed the 10-day wait after purchase? Did you lend them the firearm while they were handling it prior to purchase?

In either case the item has not left your possession and control.

Whose possession and whose control? An FFL is licensed to conduct firearms transfers. In a CA PPT an FFL only facilitates the transfer. What if the CA FFL doesn’t have a high cap permit from DOJ? Have you ever had your permit lapse and find out RSR or Sports hold up an order because DOJ has taken their sweet time issuing your renewals?

In the case of the PPT, lending is lending.

Edit: the firearm you’re allowing a person to fondle is also not a restricted item to inspect prior to purchasing since it’s allowed to be exposed for sale, manufacture, lend or expose for sale unlike hi cap mags.

Do I think anyone is going to get prosecuted over this? Probably not but generally DOJ isn’t around either and ATF could care less.

Would you attempt this during an audit with your Rep looking over your shoulder?
I’m just asking

[Nardo1895]

Originally Posted by taperxz

Whose possession and whose control? An FFL is licensed to conduct firearms transfers. In a CA PPT an FFL only facilitates the transfer. What if the CA FFL doesn’t have a high cap permit from DOJ? Have you ever had your permit lapse and find out RSR or Sports hold up an order because DOJ has taken their sweet time issuing your renewals?

In the case of the PPT, lending is lending.

Edit: the firearm you’re allowing a person to fondle is also not a restricted item to inspect prior to purchasing since it’s allowed to be exposed for sale, manufacture, lend or expose for sale unlike hi cap mags.

Do I think anyone is going to get prosecuted over this? Probably not but generally DOJ isn’t around either and ATF could care less.

Would you attempt this during an audit with your Rep looking over your shoulder?
I’m just asking

I agree that if your HCM permit expired or you didn't have one then this could be a problem. Maybe. Or maybe not if the owner left with it.

Ya, I'd do it with my Rep watching. Be a great time to find out if I'm right or if I'm doing something wrong. I have a hard time believing even if I'm wrong that I'd get in big trouble over letting someone hold a HCM for a safe handling demo. IDK, maybe I'm naïve. I've found my rep to be pretty logical and reasonable. The most I'd expect is "don't do that again". I'll ask her next time I see her.

[taperxz]

Originally Posted by Nardo1895

I agree that if your HCM permit expired or you didn't have one then this could be a problem. Maybe. Or maybe not if the owner left with it.

Ya, I'd do it with my Rep watching. Be a great time to find out if I'm right or if I'm doing something wrong. I have a hard time believing even if I'm wrong that I'd get in big trouble over letting someone hold a HCM for a safe handling demo. IDK, maybe I'm naïve. I've found my rep to be pretty logical and reasonable. The most I'd expect is "don't do that again". I'll ask her next time I see her.

As a business person i can tell you this, No way would i commit a crime over a $10 PPT to prove a point. (or any other reason to make money)

Thats exactly why people that come in for a PPT must have all docs, proper mags and all their ducks in a row.

[Nardo1895]

Originally Posted by taperxz

As a business person i can tell you this, No way would i commit a crime over a $10 PPT to prove a point. (or any other reason to make money).

Nor would I. I think maybe where we disagree is whether or not its a crime.

[taperxz]

Originally Posted by Nardo1895

Nor would I. I think maybe where we disagree is whether or not its a crime.

By the letter of the law, it is. Unless you want to give DOJ ammo to revoke your CFD but thats up to you.

[calif 15-22]

Thank you guys for the info. I ordered 10 round mags and we pushed the PPT until I have them to bring in for the transfer.

Thanks again for all the great info. I’ve done over a dozen PPTs and this is the first time this scenario has come up for me, so I appreciate the input gentlemen.