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  #1  
Old 07-30-2020, 2:59 PM
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Default “Accidental discharge”

Hello, pardon me for going straight to the mob and not searching for previous threads on this. I start on a tangent by asking if you know the secret to a happy marriage? For me the answer is two homes.... expensive but it works for us. Anyway my wife just told me that one of the neighbors in her small (22 unit) condo complex just had an “accidental”discharge with a pistol yesterday afternoon that went through two adjacent (occupied at the time) units narrowly missing the closest neighbor by a couple of feet(?). He did not get arrested, but had his gun confiscated and was told to expect charges. Curious if any of you know from experience what lays in store for him. What penalties? Loss of this gun or others and/or the right to own or have guns going forward. If it matters I suspect this guy is a chronic alcoholic, and could easily play the starring role in the village idiot if any one needed one, based on other actions/conduct. You know when they say “there is always one...”, well he is that one. I would hate to see a normal competent person lose their gun rights over an “accident” but then again, there are exceptions to most everything. I have limited info on this incident so far, but if this thread gets any interest I will follow up with more details and hopefully the disposition of it.

Last edited by Like2fly; 07-30-2020 at 3:39 PM.. Reason: Typo
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  #2  
Old 07-30-2020, 3:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Like2fly View Post
Hello, pardon me for going straight to the mob and not searching for previous threads on this. I start on a tangent by asking if you know the secret to a happy marriage? For me the answer is two homes.... expensive but it works for us. Anyway my wife just told me that one of the neighbors in her small (22 unit) condo complex just had an accidental discharge with a pistol yesterday afternoon that went through two adjacent (occupied at the time) units narrowly missing the closest neighbor by a couple of feet(?). He did not get arrested, but had his gun confiscated and was told to expect charges. Curious if any of you know from experience what lays in store for him. What penalties? Loss of this gun or others and/or the right to own or have guns going forward. If it matters I suspect this guy is a chronic alcoholic, and could easily play the starring role in the village idiot if any one needed one, based on other actions/conduct. You know when they say “there is always one...”, well he is that one. I would hate to see a normal competent person lose their gun rights over an “accident” but then again, there are exceptions to most everything. I have limited info on this incident so far, but if this thread gets any interest I will follow up with more details and hopefully the disposition of it.
Not an accidental discharge, a NEGLIGENT discharge...


That said - thanks to Google - as per the PC, the state has harsh penalties... Felony at worst.

https://www.shouselaw.com/ca/defense/penal-code/246-3/


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Old 07-30-2020, 3:14 PM
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So for u a happy marriage is to live separately from your spouse?

So besides the tax benefits or insurance benefits why even get married?
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Old 07-30-2020, 3:20 PM
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I find the two homes thing odd as well but whatever makes you happy.
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Old 07-30-2020, 3:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Scratch705 View Post
So for u a happy marriage is to live separately from your spouse?

So besides the tax benefits or insurance benefits why even get married?
We did not start off that way and we certainly do not do this for any tax or other benefits, as I said it is expensive maintaining two separate residences. We were at a rocky point in our marriage (2nd one for both of us) and I had vacant rental property at the time so we tried living apart for a while and that became our new “norm”. Like I said, it works for us, and I acknowledge it is not the ideal situation or what one should aim for. It apparently is not that uncommon. Does CalGuns have a marriage counseling sub forum where we can move this off topic part of this thread?

Last edited by Like2fly; 07-30-2020 at 3:27 PM.. Reason: Spelling error
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Old 07-30-2020, 3:30 PM
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Curious if any of you know from experience what lays in store for him.

Ever seen the first hour of, "The Shawshank Redemption?"

MOST of that...
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Old 07-30-2020, 3:36 PM
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"accidental discharge" = something mechanical failed on the firearm, which caused it to discharge

"negligent discharge" = without intending to do so, a person pulled the trigger on the firearm, which caused it to discharge
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  #8  
Old 07-30-2020, 3:47 PM
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Yes there is a difference between an accidental discharge and a negligent discharge which is why I thought I put Quotes “____” around the word accidental, in my post, but I missed it on one. The “Village Idiot” told my wife it was an “accident”. I suspect it will be found to be negligent. After shooting a round through the wall he called my wife (who is the association president) first... before calling the police or going next door to check on whether he had hit his neighbor. If this guy tried out for a part in another sequel to dumb and dumber I am sure they would give him both roles.

Last edited by Like2fly; 07-30-2020 at 3:51 PM.. Reason: Another typo. I gotta start proofreading
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Old 07-30-2020, 4:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Like2fly View Post
Yes there is a difference between an accidental discharge and a negligent discharge which is why I thought I put Quotes “____” around the word accidental, in my post, but I missed it on one. The “Village Idiot” told my wife it was an “accident”. I suspect it will be found to be negligent. After shooting a round through the wall he called my wife (who is the association president) first... before calling the police or going next door to check on whether he had hit his neighbor. If this guy tried out for a part in another sequel to dumb and dumber I am sure they would give him both roles.
Not only that...

Two feet away from an innocent...

It was in a habited dwelling...



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Old 07-30-2020, 4:11 PM
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My neighbor and his brother were hunting, clearing weapons in their car afterwards, his brother pulled the trigger to "reset" it and it blew out the windows 1 foot from my neighbor's face. Probably needs safety training class.
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Old 07-30-2020, 4:12 PM
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I am very curious as to how this is typically prosecuted.
If it is indeed an accident a felony seems pretty harsh but on the other hand one is responsible for every round fired.
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Old 07-30-2020, 4:15 PM
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Neighbors were lucky this time. If there is a trial, the neighbors should testify that the guy is too stupid to own firearms
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Old 07-30-2020, 4:20 PM
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If it was a Sig p320 it may have actually been and accidental discharge....heh
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  #14  
Old 07-30-2020, 4:23 PM
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OP

You might edit the post to make it cohesive.

When someone has an ND, what criminal and civil things can happen
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Old 07-30-2020, 4:54 PM
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With the recent pandemic gun buying craze i foresee a rise in negligent discharges from the stellar gene pool of new gun owners.
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Old 07-30-2020, 5:08 PM
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Originally Posted by alpha_romeo_XV View Post
With the recent pandemic gun buying craze i foresee a rise in negligent discharges from the stellar gene pool of new gun owners.
Except most of the NDs that I've heard of are from people who have had guns for a long time. I've noticed that at the range, most old timers are the ones not being safe where as new gun owners are overly cautious to be on the safe side asking questions and rechecking that everything is in place. It's all predictable human nature.
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Old 07-30-2020, 5:25 PM
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The only ND that I know of personally happened to someone who had more years of experience around firearms than anyone I've ever met.
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Old 07-30-2020, 7:44 PM
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The only ND that I know of personally happened to someone who had more years of experience around firearms than anyone I've ever met.
Yup complacency is a female dog, seen it myself.
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Old 07-30-2020, 7:50 PM
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Old 07-30-2020, 10:35 PM
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"Negligent" vs. "Accidental" is a harsh distinction on gun forums because pretty much everything is an ND, even if the gun goes off by itself. Mechanical maintenance is the responsibility of the firearm owner.

In real world, "accident" usually means there is no intent and "negligent" means it is reckless to the point where a reasonable person would consider the action to be irresponsible. A simple mistake is not "negligent" if we use the everyday meaning of the word.

Yes, this guy is going to be in legal trouble, but there was no mens rea so I would still call it "an accident."
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Old 07-30-2020, 10:36 PM
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I’ve heard of many LEO’s having NDs. Are they not prosecuted? If not, why a non LEO?
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Old 07-30-2020, 11:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IVC View Post
"Negligent" vs. "Accidental" is a harsh distinction on gun forums because pretty much everything is an ND, even if the gun goes off by itself. Mechanical maintenance is the responsibility of the firearm owner.

In real world, "accident" usually means there is no intent and "negligent" means it is reckless to the point where a reasonable person would consider the action to be irresponsible. A simple mistake is not "negligent" if we use the everyday meaning of the word.

Yes, this guy is going to be in legal trouble, but there was no mens rea so I would still call it "an accident."

^^ I concur with this 100%, and have always believed the same for a long time now. I began noticing these common corrections being made on gun forums several years ago ("nothing is accidental, it is negligence!") ... probably started by an overzealous instructor(s). The result of misplaced frustration I suppose.

You have explained it very well, good job.


With that said, I think some one up there said we'll probably be hearing more about this, and he's probably right, too, in this strange times we are living in.
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Last edited by caliberetta; 07-30-2020 at 11:38 PM..
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  #23  
Old 07-31-2020, 1:29 AM
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Curious- the round cleared two units? Was it crappy construction with no firebreaks? I can't imagine what caliber could do that.
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Old 07-31-2020, 3:41 AM
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Originally Posted by alpha_romeo_XV View Post
With the recent pandemic gun buying craze i foresee a rise in negligent discharges from the stellar gene pool of new gun owners.

Especially while cleaning Glocks.
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Old 07-31-2020, 4:40 AM
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My friend had a friend that said he was cleaning and shot his leg. I was not able to interrogate him because he was a little unstable but I bet I would have gotten down to the issue within a few questions. He later died of health problems.
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Old 07-31-2020, 5:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Like2fly View Post
We did not start off that way and we certainly do not do this for any tax or other benefits, as I said it is expensive maintaining two separate residences. We were at a rocky point in our marriage (2nd one for both of us) and I had vacant rental property at the time so we tried living apart for a while and that became our new “norm”. Like I said, it works for us, and I acknowledge it is not the ideal situation or what one should aim for. It apparently is not that uncommon. Does CalGuns have a marriage counseling sub forum where we can move this off topic part of this thread?
Yes,
There is an OFF TOPIC forum here, where many of members offer good advice on just about any question/problem.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Colt View Post
I’ve heard of many LEO’s having NDs. Are they not prosecuted? If not, why a non LEO?
"Glock Leg" started with and is a specialty of LEOs. Happens all the time. Worse yet, one instructor shot another LEO while showing him some sort of tacticool move! Not too long ago and I beleive it was in San Diego. Not sure what the outcome was.

Why all the vengeful calls. Civilian or LEO, the guy made a stupid mistake, shooting his own leg or the wall. If no one else was hurt, no need to go legal lynch mob on him. He should definitely pay to fix the dry walls and any other damages, and it should be left at that.
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Old 07-31-2020, 6:12 AM
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Why all the vengeful calls. Civilian or LEO, the guy made a stupid mistake, shooting his own leg or the wall. If no one else was hurt, no need to go legal lynch mob on him. He should definitely pay to fix the dry walls and any other damages, and it should be left at that.
Because if these people don't get a hard slap on the wrist and a wake up call they can kill someone next time. I don't know what the actual situation is but if I was the neighbor who ended up with a hole in my wall I'd want to know if this person really did make a mistake or if it was a preventable ND. If this person is a drunk who will probably not change his ways or if they are getting help. This will determine if I have to find a new home or install some steel on that side of the house.
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Old 07-31-2020, 7:03 AM
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Curious- the round cleared two units? Was it crappy construction with no firebreaks? I can't imagine what caliber could do that.
9mm NATO spec ball ammunition will go thru many sheets of drywall.
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Old 07-31-2020, 2:35 PM
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Did the guy own an XR 15 bullpup? I saw an expert on TV demonstrate how those can slamfire all-the-time...

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Old 07-31-2020, 2:43 PM
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A round of penicillin will clear up a case of accidental discharge
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Old 07-31-2020, 2:59 PM
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i saw the results once, when i was still in school and working at a hospital (radiology dept).
guy from newport area comes in with a gunshot to the mid thigh.
clean hole, but not bleeding and his leg was swelling up. not good.
i thought to myself, this guy could lose his leg.
they shot some dye in and took an x-ray and sure enough, his femoral blown out. immediately took him to surgery but don't think they save his leg.

side story, he came in with a friend visiting from chicago. since police are called for the gunshot, i overhear them when they are taking a statement from him.
buddy says dude was showing him his gun and "accidentally" shot himself.
police ask him if there was only one shot. yes.
police ask him to go with them to dude's apartment where the shot was fired.
uh-oh.
buddy does not want to go! no sir. uh-uh.
police tell him he has to go with them and show them what happened, and they have to make sure there are no other injured or shots fired through the wall or floor.
nope. don't wanna.
police give him a choice, go willingly or in cuffs.
buddy is panicked but goes along. you could see he was scared schiffless.

being the early-mid 80s, i was guessing there was a pile of blow on the table.
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Old 07-31-2020, 3:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lowemont View Post
Did the guy own an XR 15 bullpup? I saw an expert on TV demonstrate how those can slamfire all-the-time...

Sent from my LM-V405 using Tapatalk
i think all of my guns have a pin, sear or hammer block that means the trigger must be pulled.
i wonder if a light trigger is the reason some of them can be fired that way.
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Old 07-31-2020, 3:09 PM
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The entire "negligence vs accidental" is silly.

Accidental does not mean a no fault event. Most auto accidents in California result in an allocation of fault due to negligence. It's not only an accident if there was mechanical failure.

I get the desire to tell someone, no, it's not an act of God, you violated multiple safety rules, but accident does not mean there was no negligence.
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Old 07-31-2020, 3:13 PM
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I know of a few people who have. They all had the "I am the master of safety and instruction" personalities that liked to shoot from the hip and thought that their NRA certifications were king.

They all got nicknames after.
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Old 07-31-2020, 3:14 PM
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OP, since no one has asked yet, can we get pics of the wife, specifically the elbows? Need to see if she is worth having two residences. Thanks!
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Old 07-31-2020, 3:19 PM
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OP here, no big update here, other than finding out from the neighbor (who we know fairly well) directly on the other side of the shooters unit, that she had seen him many times walking around the condo complex at night brandishing a pistol that he would take out of a fanny pack. So now there are two knuckleheads in my wife’s condo complex. The guy who shot the pistol, and the person who knew this guy was a potential problem and did not say anything till after he finally did something stupid (or more stupid than usual). If he had done a 180 it could have been her unit that was shot, or a difference of two feet and the other neighbor could have been history. I don’t want to get into a red flag law tangent, but dropping a dime on this guy may have saved a life and it could have been hers. I will definitely update this when I get more info. Still have not seen any feedback on actual cases like this and how severe the legal consequences were.
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Old 07-31-2020, 7:59 PM
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9mm NATO spec ball ammunition will go thru many sheets of drywall.
Sure, but condos usually have firebreaks between units. And to go through TWO units and firebreaks?
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Old 07-31-2020, 9:32 PM
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Originally Posted by alpha_romeo_XV View Post
With the recent pandemic gun buying craze i foresee a rise in negligent discharges from the stellar gene pool of new gun owners.
Glad to see you doing your part to help us get more support for the 2A... not.
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Old 08-01-2020, 5:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Scratch705 View Post
So for u a happy marriage is to live separately from your spouse?

So besides the tax benefits or insurance benefits why even get married
Get laid, then go home and watch NASCAR and fart.
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Old 08-01-2020, 12:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IVC View Post
"Negligent" vs. "Accidental" is a harsh distinction on gun forums because pretty much everything is an ND, even if the gun goes off by itself. Mechanical maintenance is the responsibility of the firearm owner.

In real world, "accident" usually means there is no intent and "negligent" means it is reckless to the point where a reasonable person would consider the action to be irresponsible. A simple mistake is not "negligent" if we use the everyday meaning of the word.

Yes, this guy is going to be in legal trouble, but there was no mens rea so I would still call it "an accident."
Quote:
Originally Posted by caliberetta View Post
^^ I concur with this 100%, and have always believed the same for a long time now. I began noticing these common corrections being made on gun forums several years ago ("nothing is accidental, it is negligence!") ... probably started by an overzealous instructor(s). The result of misplaced frustration I suppose.

You have explained it very well, good job.
This. "Accidental" and "Negligent" are not mutually exclusive. The two terms mean two completely different things. Labeling a discharge as accidental only means that it was not intentional. It does not mean "not negligent". And no, pulling the trigger doesn't necessarily mean an intent to fire a weapon as pulling the trigger can be inherent in disassembly.
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