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Centerfire Rifles - Semiautomatic or Gas Operated Centerfire rifles, carbines and other gas operated rifles.

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  #81  
Old 05-17-2019, 4:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oak18 View Post
The other side of Calguns logic would call him poor for even owning a Casio and tell him that his watch wouldn’t stand the test of time if he wore it in Afghanistan.
I dont think I've seen anyone call another person poor. Cheap? yeah, tightwad? yeah, Penny-pincher? yeah, piker? yeah, skinflint? yeah.

With regard to A-stan. It would really depend on which Casio.
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  #82  
Old 05-17-2019, 4:13 PM
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Originally Posted by oak18 View Post
The other side of Calguns logic would call him poor for even owning a Casio and tell him that his watch wouldn’t stand the test of time if he wore it in Afghanistan.
Lol, true. I did wear one on two deployments. The band gave way on the second and I lost the watch as a result. I rarely wear a watch nowadays.
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  #83  
Old 05-17-2019, 4:32 PM
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Originally Posted by oak18 View Post
Well considering that there are only what, 8 actual factories that make lowers in the United States? Noveske and DPMS lowers are made by the same company. That doesn’t mean they’re the same, but I would assume that the particular company is certainly capable of making lowers correctly. Whether it be a cheap DPMS lower or a $250 Noveske lower. They’re both going to be to the same spec. The noveske will have a few minor upgrades and a different roll mark.
I don't know the current numbers, but 7 years ago there were all sorts of small shops making lowers (and (ARs), in the double digits in fact. yes, there are/were probably close to 10 manufacturers that are making for other known manufacturers, but that didn't include the smaller guys.

100% guarantee that not all lowers have the same tolerances, not all of them have the same reliability or lack thereof, and there is an optimum tolerance/geometry specification. From personal experience for example: Spike's Tactical, at least the two I got in 2009, were sloppy, nothing like a Colt, BCM, etc, and not as reliable as a result (I have lowers from Bushmaster, POF, Noveske, Spike's, Falkor, Armalite, BCM, and Larue to compare those too. Lot's of rounds through Colts, but don't own one).

Just my experience. Have a great weekend!
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  #84  
Old 05-17-2019, 6:05 PM
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Here's a question:

You take 100 random Taliban jihadis and give them full auto M4 short-barreled carbines with toolcraft BCGs. Then you take 100 random Taliban jihadis and give them fullauto M4 short-barreled carbines with these Surefire BCGs. Everything else is equal. Do you think the combat effectiveness of group toolcraft is going to be worse than than of group surefire?
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  #85  
Old 05-17-2019, 6:42 PM
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Do they have suppressors?

But how could anyone answer that question? Nobody has any data. NOBODY in this thread is equipped to make an educated guess.
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  #86  
Old 05-17-2019, 7:06 PM
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Originally Posted by tonyxcom View Post
Do they have suppressors?

But how could anyone answer that question? Nobody has any data. NOBODY in this thread is equipped to make an educated guess.
pretty sure a few folks on this thread have silencers. they just arent used in this state.
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  #87  
Old 05-17-2019, 7:08 PM
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full auto too?
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  #88  
Old 05-17-2019, 7:24 PM
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full auto too?
yup
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  #89  
Old 05-17-2019, 7:27 PM
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they should buy the Surefire BCG then.
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  #90  
Old 05-17-2019, 8:33 PM
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Tonyxcom
Stay the course....I’m eating popcorn while you’re logic melts the interwebs!
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  #91  
Old 05-17-2019, 8:51 PM
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Probably some minor tooling changes and adjustments just after the Toolcraft BCG's were finished on the same line.
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  #92  
Old 05-17-2019, 9:01 PM
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Hmmmmmm

Last edited by skoler33; 05-17-2019 at 9:05 PM..
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  #93  
Old 05-17-2019, 9:03 PM
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https://videos.recoilweb.com/watch/c...4-surefire-obc

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  #94  
Old 05-17-2019, 9:26 PM
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  #95  
Old 05-18-2019, 9:27 AM
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Since the military switched to 3 round burst, do they even need this?
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  #96  
Old 05-18-2019, 9:39 AM
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Or, maybe the units they switched can go back to full auto with this.
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  #97  
Old 05-18-2019, 10:24 AM
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Since the military switched to 3 round burst, do they even need this?
Burst still has a cycle rate that affects weapon accuracy, and reliability.
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  #98  
Old 05-18-2019, 4:11 PM
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The problem with anything that has Surefire on it is that it is always twice as expensive as it should be. You need not look any farther than their flashlights and weapons lights which are double + any Streamlight product.

This part is designed specifically to attract Military Buyers. They do spend a little extra to get Mil Spec Certified, but this bolt carrier will have a very difficult time proving its performance is above and beyond regular quality BCG's that come with M4's.

If the existing M4's had BCG problems don't you think Colt or FN would have fixed them by now. The gun has only been in service for the last 50 years!

You'd think they would have these things pretty well figured out by now.

Oh Wait,,,, They do!!!!!!

There is so little difference in AR M4/16 parts it is almost impossible to tell the difference. And those tolerances which are supposed to be tighter are pure BS. Any bolt made within the tolerances on "THE drawing" will work reliably in any "In Tolerance Receiver"

"THE Drawing" is the one you get from the JCP when you want to bid on solicitations for contracts for replacement parts which come out daily.

You will make parts to those tolerances or your parts will be rejected, Period! and Higher Level Quality Control Processes are required for this type of part.

These are not optional tolerances.

During a production run if you have a nominal call out of lets say .930 and the tolerance is +/-.002 then any part that is .928-.932 is acceptable. With Higher Level QC you have to keep a record of all the parts you make, and if you are running said parts at .930 on the nose and all of a sudden you get one that is .933,,, You get to trash the whole run, You don't get to dump just the one bad part. You also don't get to terminate the run before you have made all the parts required for that contract. All must be the same size within a very small range.

This is the reason why I don't do Higher Level Quality Control. It is also the reason why the Military pays way more for their stuff than commercial outfits do.

I saw a bushing on the board the other day and it was a simple Aluminum Bushing that measured .375 on the OD, .250 on the ID and was .250 long. I have a machine that will make 5 per minute. It ain't a hard part!

However since this part is "weapons coded" because it goes on an airplane, higher level QC is required, or so they say. Even though it is not necessary for this part, and the only reason it's on there is because some Fat *** Woman in Virginia at the DLA is too lazy to change the Boiler Plate for the solicitation! They just see "weapons coded" and it gets that boiler plate. They have absolutely no idea what they are buying or what it is for.

Thus the part went for $53.88 each and the contract was for 10,828 ea and was worth $583,412! Guess who got it?

"Boeing" is the correct answer!

And they will farm it out to a local shop who charges them $3.00 each for the parts, and that shop won't have higher level QC, but the parts will be inspected at Boeing which does have it.

That $583 grand won't even pay the salaries of the Lobbyists that Boeing has in DC that make sure they get 99% of the contracts that they bid on.

The purchase History on the above part goes back 30 years and Boeing has gotten it every single time the Govt bought the parts. I couldn't even get a look at the print! I got the dimensions from the written description of the part in the solicitation.

But just to show you how FU they are here's a pic of a part I make. it is pretty nice and is made out of a 3"dia piece of 316 stainless. I got $1300 for each part. 15 ea total. I sold them directly to Port Hueneme because they wouldn't buy them from the DLA. Reason why? The DLA wants $28,992.84 for each one. That part is 5" long and even if it was made from pure Unobtanium it wouldn't be worth $29 grand! They don't even have a picture of what they are buying! which could save the taxpayers a bunch since these people have no idea what they are buying. I could go on and on!



Life is not fair, but it goes on none the less. have a nice day! :>)

Randy.
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Last edited by W.R.Buchanan; 05-18-2019 at 4:23 PM..
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  #99  
Old 05-18-2019, 4:23 PM
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Just for comparison , here's the carrier for an HK 416 , $400 for the bare carrier. Where's the outrage?
http://https://www.brownells.com/rif...%2526%2520Koch
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  #100  
Old 05-18-2019, 4:27 PM
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Yeah, but it's made in Germany. Everything they make is Purfect! Thus worth more.
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  #101  
Old 05-18-2019, 4:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by W.R.Buchanan View Post
The problem with anything that has Surefire on it is that it is always twice as expensive as it should be. You need not look any farther than their flashlights and weapons lights which are double + any Streamlight product.
I was waiting for someone to bring up their lights because this is ground zero for Surefire haters.

Why complain about the price of the Surefire if they really think the Streamlight is better or at least as good in comparison? It's because if the price was the same, they are likely to pick the Surefire.

Furthermore, all of these people who say their (insert cheap product) is just as good as (insert more expensive product) would likely pick the latter if the price was equal.
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  #102  
Old 05-19-2019, 10:44 AM
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NO Tony I wouldn't. I don't like the Surefire Lights because of the way the switches work. They don't suit me.

I have no problem paying more for Quality and Value if it is actually there.

I have a big problem paying for it (and I don't) if there is no discernible difference in the quality of the product or the way it operates.

The Military is Surefire's primary market target. They told me so at the SHOT Show. They build most of their products to "their" Mil Spec which was lobbied for them just like others like Boeing do, and by doing that they automatically spend more to get a product to market. The costs therein are then amortized into the price of the item. Another company can't just compete with them because the Mil Spec calls out a "Surefire" Product. The only way to compete is to sell their product for less than they do. Kinda hard to do that?

When you buy a Surefire product you are paying for their Development costs, Lobbying costs, and the product. However you only get the product for your money, and no benefit from the Mil Spec Certifications, because you aren't the military.

I bought a dozen Surefire CR123 batteries from LAPG because they were on sale and $2 cheaper than the Streamlight brand batteries they had on sale too. 5 out of 12 were dead! so I sent them back to LAPG who exchanged them no charge for the Streamlight Batteries and apologized to me for the problem.

Made in China !

I don't pay for Names! IMHO anyone who assumes that a name automatically means quality nowadays is naive. It ain't like it used to be.

Stopped buying Snap On tools along time ago when I found out they were being made in China. That outfit permanently sullied their good name just for profits. But they still charged the same high prices for the China made tools as they did for the American made tools.

This is a product of Liberals running the country from 2008-16, and we are just now starting to see our dignity coming back, but Liberals are still trying very hard to drag this country into the gutter.

Sooner or later they will find out about the Second Amendment,,, Unless Gavie confiscates all the guns.

Randy
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Last edited by W.R.Buchanan; 05-19-2019 at 10:50 AM..
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  #103  
Old 05-19-2019, 12:17 PM
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[QUOTE=W.R.Buchanan;23017847]

You are 120 miles away from SureFire.... you’re cat is very disappointed you spew assumptions about a company you’ve never personally observed how they make their products..... name a day I’ll personally give you a tour!

Open to learning something?

Last edited by skoler33; 05-19-2019 at 12:24 PM..
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