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Concealed Carry Discussion General discussion regarding CCW/LTC in California |
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#81
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Zircon John; in the future $11 dollars more worth the hassle when you learn guy has a gun maybe and is crazy
Also there are things we do that we do and look back later and say I didn’t do the smartest thing in the world. I have done a lot of things that I shouldn’t have done. I think I would delete this tread so if you have to use your gun go’s forbid a attorney doesn’t see it and use it to try and get money. I maybe was very hasty and stuff with my answer or reply. I could been more understanding. Just stay safe you have a thankless hard job driving a taxi and if you run j to a situation where you need use your weapon just be sure your good with it as your the one that has deal with consequences |
#82
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ZJ positioning the firearm, still concealed, isn't premeditation for violence. From what you've written, we may disagree on that point. If BG rapidly pulled a phone from his pocket and ZJ put two in his chest, ZJ is completely in the wrong and would be in a world of legal hurt. But that didn't happen. We don't know what would have happened if things went different. All we know is what did happen. ZJ waited for payment, and the BG paid. Trust me I get it - some things aren't worth the risk. Some things are. Only ZJ knows how sketchy the situation was, but we do know BG is wrong to play games. What things we think are worth what level of risk, what we think is "right", and how we react is a personal decision. I wouldn't judge ZJ any different if he did just drive away. |
#83
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Thank you ben...
I was telling a story ... I said things I said "flinch" okay ... maybe I could've said "jump" or "move" or "whoop-tee-doo" --- I also said "pull-point & fire" but you didn't cap on that My wife reads between the lines whenever I say something ... I'm certain a lot of guys here understand that ... I say something and she turns it into her own interpretation. This is a story of what happened - some words were used and maybe shouldn't been used ... but we just talking here, just t-a-l-k-i-n-g ... a thing that happened - a guy telling a story of what happened in his own words. Lets see if we can learn from it. I am very-very glad the guy didn't produce, what his friends said he had a gun ... I don't know if it was true, or not. I didn't see a gun. Neither did he see my personal protection. I am the ONLY one there who knew I had PPCCW and was on the ready. I was a sitting duck on the surface ... but under water I was peddling ... and yet there were no ripples in the water. Do you understand that without reading between the lines and self interpretation? I'm not Law Enforcement ... as I said, I'm just a regular joe. I go to work on time every day, I pay my bills and taxes ... and I believe in family. I also believe a man has right to self defense. And that's all this was ... NOT 11 dollars which I could pay out of my pocket a hundred times and NOT feel it in my bank account. I'm not a wealthy man, but I am secure. Thank you for your input - really great content. I will read again and learn - for better to prepare myself in case I come close to situation again (hope not) in the next 20 years of PP CCW. Thank you / jd
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. "A rattlesnake that doesn't bite teaches you nothing" -- Jessamyn West "Only God has the touch to create these magnificent rattlesnakes and their signature greatness in nature" -- unknown . ......GO HERE FOR--► My YouTube Channel |
#84
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Stay safe John!
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When the going gets weird, the WEIRD, turn pro. |
#85
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OP, if you were not carrying would you have handled the situation differently? For instructional purposes only, of course.
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NRA member |
#88
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There is nothing wrong with expecting to be paid obviously.
I would be telling any student who related this story to me based only on what was offered by the OP to just leave. I also would have been asking multiple questions of the story teller/client to establish his state of mind at the time of this event. I absolutely agree you never want to be in a vehicle parked while engaging in a gun fight. If you need greater evidence of this go sit in one and pretend drawing and trying to engage someone. It would have been safer for him to exit his vehicle with the hazards flashing and possibly standing somewhere he could observe the behavior of the subject as he came back outside. At that point make a decision to contact him. At least you are in more control and setting the stage versus him. I typically ALWAYS remove my seat belt if I am in a parked car and waiting. You are extremely vulnerable sitting there. I believe at times a sense of self righteous can take some limited control. Allowing us to make choices we would not normally. Having a ccw certainly can embolden this sense. Is $11.00 really worth having to defend yourself with a firearm. Most would say no way. By no means I am suggesting this may not stand up as a legitimate use of lethal force to defend oneself. But based only on the OPs words of the event it was reckless and silly to stay there as he did. He may be more accustomed to situations where there could be greater fear in others. But is that comfort level beneficial in this type of scenario as presented by him? Hopefully those of you who do carry responsibly have created your own line in the sand. Just my opinion above. Last edited by Matt P; 12-26-2020 at 10:07 PM.. |
#90
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Upon what do you base this guidance? The OP violated no law. He didn’t draw his weapon; he didn’t “brandish” his weapon. What specifically is your concern, here? What would you have done? (And why are you recommending alternative protection measures which you don’t know are legal?)
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"People say nothing is impossible, but I do nothing every day.” "Nothing is foolproof to a sufficiently-talented fool." "The things that come to those who wait may well be the things left by those who got there first." |
#91
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Exactly the wrong response & reasoning for concealed carry. If you’d brandished or worse yet used your weapon you’d have been in a world of hurt over pride & $11 Stupid. Sorry if you don’t like hearing it, nothing personal & no animosity just the facts. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
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"If you have them by the balls, their hearts and minds will follow" |
#92
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#93
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How did this go down in your mind? Guy was going to point a gun at you for $11 and, instead of saying FU as you drive away, you were going to get on the trigger faster than him, kill him instantly with perfect shot placement and immediately eliminating the threat? I’m surprised you didn’t put on your ear pro in preparation. If you think the fight is always going to go your way then my guess is you haven’t been in many fights. |
#94
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#95
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While you’re at it, google “Tree-Fiddy”
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We’re ALL GOING TO DIE! Can’t somebody do something?!?!?!?! |
#96
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__________________
"People say nothing is impossible, but I do nothing every day.” "Nothing is foolproof to a sufficiently-talented fool." "The things that come to those who wait may well be the things left by those who got there first." |
#97
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IMO, the only thing ZJ did wrong is he wears his EDC in a manner in which it needs to be adjusted in order to present quickly.
You need to fix that, different holster different gun differ at carry position but you need to find something that works for you. Some day you may not have a bunch of Karens warning you that guy’s crazy with a gun 2 minutes before.
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We’re ALL GOING TO DIE! Can’t somebody do something?!?!?!?! |
#98
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Loss of $11 seems paltry and nothing about which to worry.
However, if the cab driver had been the potential victim of a really serious crime with perhaps a multi-year prison term, would his defensive preparations seemed more reasonable?
__________________
"People say nothing is impossible, but I do nothing every day.” "Nothing is foolproof to a sufficiently-talented fool." "The things that come to those who wait may well be the things left by those who got there first." |
#100
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This is why people can’t get a ccw. You should be one of them. There was no reason to have a weapon on call for an 11$ cab ride. You put yourself at risk and shouldn’t have. You chose to engage and not leave. This is the exact reason why we have a difficult time getting a ccw. If you shot that guy do you for a second think a judge would have agreed with you? If you heard he had a gun and you didn’t split it’s on you...waiting for him to pull one is a different scenario than ah **** he’s got a gun.
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#101
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You can cry and complain all you want about why YOU cannot get a CCW, NOT gonna do you any good. You don't have a CCW and so therefore you shouldn't be talking. You should be reading and not commenting on something you have NO experience. Okay ??? ... okay. Now go polish your can of pepper spray and clean your panic whistle in case you encounter a dark street freak out! Next ........
__________________
. "A rattlesnake that doesn't bite teaches you nothing" -- Jessamyn West "Only God has the touch to create these magnificent rattlesnakes and their signature greatness in nature" -- unknown . ......GO HERE FOR--► My YouTube Channel |
#102
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Look ... all you keyboard commando's with NO CCW - You have all the answers. You don't ... okay! Mannnnn ... CalGuns got all wussy in the last 5 years. You guys need to consider before posting, ask yourself "am I being a wussy for posting this?" Then ... I'll answer for you ... YES ... you are being wussy. or ... post away and I am entertained by your wussyness.
__________________
. "A rattlesnake that doesn't bite teaches you nothing" -- Jessamyn West "Only God has the touch to create these magnificent rattlesnakes and their signature greatness in nature" -- unknown . ......GO HERE FOR--► My YouTube Channel |
#103
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For people still commenting on this I have had some private messages with the author he is a normal guy.
I am sure that he is perfectly fine carrying a ccw. I ran the author down until I put myself in his shoes and talked directly with him. He will be just fine in the future with his ccw |
#104
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BTW we are all wimps in one way or another... |
#107
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Interesting!
I’m a new CA CCW holder but I have carried in Nevada because I got my AZ permit long before I got my CA. Anyhow, it’s great to read OP’s story and read others in response. It does help with setting the mindset. Like they say, “with great power, comes great responsibility.” Carrying a gun around is a very power thing. It can save, and at the same time, take a life. And quite frankly, most of us don’t have the experience to speak about ever having to draw our CCW. So, preparing our skill set along with our mindset is crucial. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
#108
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For me the $11 is irrelevant. What I see here is the OP obviously knowing ahead of time that there might be a threat to his life (based on his actions). He had every opportunity to leave and call the police and let them handle it. It appears that the OP doesn't want to hear anything other than "right on, man"
So, I'll say it. "right on, man" |
#109
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"Right on, man." Welcome to Calguns.
__________________
"People say nothing is impossible, but I do nothing every day.” "Nothing is foolproof to a sufficiently-talented fool." "The things that come to those who wait may well be the things left by those who got there first." |
#111
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" You DO realize everything you post here is permanent and public, right?" Posted by Librarian. On topic, if you are willing to remain in a situation with the knowledge that someone might have a gun and the motivation for remaining in a situation that you are obviously preparing for (drawing your gun even if to move it for faster and easier access) you really need to re-evaluate what you are doing and why. How many times do we hear and even espouse ourselves that when pulled over, simply follow instructions and if you disagree - go to court. Then on the opposite side we say that because someone expects to be paid for services or a delivery that its okay to sit there after other people who might not know anything but regardless, caution you they think or know the other party has a gun? Does that any sense to anyone? When the guy walked away after not paying that was it, a crime was committed and it becomes a matter for law enforcement and the courts even if they do nothing, its not up to you because you sit there with a gun available to you to wait to see what happens. This all turned out to be more or less a nothing burger, by chance only. The idea that there is no premeditation stopped working when OP put their hand on the gun and drew it, the premeditation has taken place because there is anticipation. Being pro-active would have been leaving. There was no immediate threat that could not have been eliminated by leaving the area. This went from someone leaving without paying for services or goods to sitting there waiting for an outcome that had it turned bad could have been prevented 100%. Had the outcome been bad, someone's life is worth the $11? Since when? The other guy didn't take the money, they refused to pay and while it's still considered theft, that is why in this country we have laws against that and courts to decide it. It isn't because you have a CCW that you get to allow a situation to potentially escalate knowing that potential exists and evidenced by the fact you removed your gun from the holster and put it somewhere you could get to it faster. If that isn't forethought and preparation nothing is. There was no threat to the OP or anyone else since the other guy had not yet returned. The OP wasn't in his house he was sitting in a car on a public street and initially got stiffed. AND? One of their first responsibilities is not to push a bad situation where the probability of escalation is increasing. You aren't the police and you have no special anything, you are joe blow citizen and you have both the means and opportunity to de-escalate and actually in this case prevent any possible violence. Doing anything else is wrong unless the situation has already presented itself and there is no other way out other than self defense. There was no self defense situation here, there was waiting for something to go bad and then hope that self defense would be a defense. This wasn't a stand your ground situation, it was waiting to see what happens knowing that at the moment the guy walked away without paying that a crime has been committed. There was a remedy that insured 100% avoidance of violence. Not 50% or 75% but 100% just by leaving and calling the police. The OP is lucky to be here because had that other guy actually done what the OP was warned might happen, he was a sitting duck and it doesn't matter how fast you think you are, how much training you've paid somebody for tacti-johnny drills, you aren't getting out of that one. Another note: Anyone running a Taxi, an UBER or other similar service that doesn't have a camera running is about as negligent to their personal safety and business security as it comes. You carry a gun but don't have a camera recording external and internal video? Where is that thought process? There would have been video of the guy not paying and walking away. |
#113
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#116
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#117
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#119
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Wait wtf?
I thought ZJ carried a rattlesnake in a burlap sack as his ccw….
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#120
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Confrontations have to be backed up. You gonna get into a fight with someone over property and then end up fighting over your gun or are you just going to start shooting? That's where the brains come in. You see it's not acting like a scared cat because you carry a gun, its discretion because if the other guy doesn't have anything but his fists you will end up fighting for your gun and then what, you gonna shoot him because he fights better than you and is kicking your ***? |
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