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  #1  
Old 10-18-2020, 11:02 AM
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rodralig rodralig is offline
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Default Troubleshooting advise? Failure to fire after reload in "2-Reload-2"

Looking for some troubleshooting advice...

As some of those that know me - I do not have an opportunity to practice live fire drills to validate my dry practice. It is practically straight from dry practice to a match/classifier.

That said, when the opportunity presented itself yesterday that the PRG MD allowed us to use an empty stage post-match - I took the chance to finally check my "2-Reload-2" in live fire (my DF par is at 2.1-sec normal effort).

Unfortunately, as you can see in the footage, I get Failure-to-Fire after the reload. Am figuring out what the problem is... Firing pin spring (currently set at 4.5#)...? Recoil spring (at 13#)...? Ammo...? I use factory Remingtons... I had a few of these at the match, as well. I am using a Glock 34 MOS Gen 5 with an SRO.

With the 10 reps I did this, I only got it to fire once. But being a bungled reload due to being frustrated - it was a far cry of 3.6-sec... I am at an absolute lost!

Thanks in advanced!!!





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Last edited by rodralig; 10-18-2020 at 11:09 AM.. Reason: edited title for clarity
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  #2  
Old 10-18-2020, 5:43 PM
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cindynles cindynles is offline
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What is happening when you get the FTF? Is the trigger dead? Does the trigger click but no bang? Is the slide going all the way into battery? What trigger system do you have installed?
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  #3  
Old 10-18-2020, 6:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cindynles View Post
What is happening when you get the FTF? Is the trigger dead? Does the trigger click but no bang? Is the slide going all the way into battery? What trigger system do you have installed?
Nope. The trigger wasn't dead, hence, I am quite sure that the gun was in battery. Also, from the footage of my headcam, it does like the gun is in battery.

What I do get is a click....

That said, if it were a click, there should be a dent in the primer. But none I could find. Strangely, when I rack the slide may an 8th of an inch just enough to reset the trigger, it fires that ammo still in the chamber.

Strange, right?

I am using Charlie Vanek's Gen 5 kit with the 4.5# striker spring and a 13# recoil spring.

To be honest, I am less frustrated on the FTF as opposed to it happen right after a speed reload.


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Old 10-18-2020, 6:15 PM
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Did it happen during the match after a reload? Were you doing the drill with a full mag for the reload? It almost seems like some type of inertia issue.
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  #5  
Old 10-18-2020, 6:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cindynles View Post
Did it happen during the match after a reload? Were you doing the drill with a full mag for the reload? It almost seems like some type of inertia issue.
Yes, it happened a few frustrating times during the match, and coming after a reload. However, there was one when I was not reloading - was transitioning from long range steel to point-blank paper.

No, I wasn't doing a full mag. Say at least 3-rounds in mag #1 and at least 2-rounds in mag #2. Was just killing the time and the few remaining ammo I brought for the match.


In another forum where I also posted this problem, a few suggested that I wasn't waiting for the gun to complete cycling before bringing it to my workspace to reload. All I could reply was "I called the shot, why shouldn't I move already...?"

Right now - my gut feel is a weak recoil spring...


That said, you say Inertia issue? Sorry, I am confused...


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  #6  
Old 10-18-2020, 7:48 PM
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Ok
To clarify, the 1st magazine had 3 or more bullets in the mag- correct?

Did you save the rounds that did not fire?
How does the primer appear? Normal dent? Smaller than normal? No dent at all?
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  #7  
Old 10-18-2020, 8:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hermosabeach View Post
Ok
To clarify, the 1st magazine had 3 or more bullets in the mag- correct?
Correct.

Quote:
Did you save the rounds that did not fire?
How does the primer appear? Normal dent? Smaller than normal? No dent at all?
Yup, after the few Tap-Rack - I picked them all back. Normal - no dent I could see... And actually reused them and they did fire.

That said, if it were light primer strikes - again, why after the reload? #mystery

Strange, right?

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Last edited by rodralig; 10-18-2020 at 8:13 PM..
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  #8  
Old 10-18-2020, 8:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rodralig View Post

That said, you say Inertia issue? Sorry, I am confused...


_
I've seen issues like this where the connector / disconnector is the issue. The inertia of the reload causing the connector to slip off. Take the top end off, re-set the trigger, and then watch the connector while you reload. It's easy to rule out.

If its the recoil spring then you would be seeing issues with it not going into battery.
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  #9  
Old 10-19-2020, 8:08 AM
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Put the stock striker spring back in and try it again.
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  #10  
Old 10-19-2020, 9:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cindynles View Post
I've seen issues like this where the connector / disconnector is the issue. The inertia of the reload causing the connector to slip off. Take the top end off, re-set the trigger, and then watch the connector while you reload. It's easy to rule out.
Whoa!?!

Okay - let me check it out... A connector slipping off due to a reloading action.

Thanks,




Quote:
Originally Posted by PM720 View Post
Put the stock striker spring back in and try it again.
S,

Why do you think so? If it were a striker spring issue, shouldn't the issue also manifest itself in the first pair?

As I was becoming frustrated with it, I just ended the day with a Bill Drill - no issues with FTF... So, it continually perplexes me why it happens right after a reload.

Of course, will be going through the "elimination method" for troubleshooting - but thinking out loud that I am indeed curious on how a reload motion affect the striker....

Thanks,



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  #11  
Old 10-20-2020, 6:49 AM
NorthBay Shooter NorthBay Shooter is offline
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Rod, I had a similar issue with a M&P so it may not equate to your Glock. It would seem like a light strike, so I replaced the striker, the striker spring, nothing changed. I then looked that the trigger bar and the way it interacted with the sear. I made some changes there, but again, no joy. I changed the striker block and spring, and nothing. I finally changed the sear spring and, it worked. It never happened again.

A gunsmith told me something about totality of tolerances, but not sure anything ever pointed there.
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  #12  
Old 10-20-2020, 9:03 AM
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You have to troubleshoot to try to replicate the problem and isolate the issue.

First, just drop the mag, pretend to reload (but don't insert the mag), try to fire. Determine whether it's the force/action of the magazine insertion that causes the problem. Follow up by simply having a loaded chamber but no magazine, then slam the magazine in and see if it messes up your gun.

It's hard to tell based on what you show, but some indicators are there: if there is no dent in the primer, the firing pin didn't strike. If it didn't strike it's either because it wasn't actuated (this is where you have to check the trigger mechanism), or it was blocked by the FPB. Those are pretty much the only options for the problem.

My guess would be that you're having an issue with the trigger where it didn't engage the striker at all. FPB moves mechanically with the trigger and you'd have problems at various times if it was the cause. Go with Les'es suggestion and test the disconnector.
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  #13  
Old 10-20-2020, 7:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PM720 View Post
Put the stock striker spring back in and try it again.

Too many non stock parts.

Put the OEM parts back.
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  #14  
Old 10-22-2020, 7:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by baranski View Post
Too many non stock parts.

Put the OEM parts back.
*ouch*

Yes, I just detailed clean the pistol (it's already been 1,300-rds since the last detailed strip; maintaining it with a simple field strip/lube)...

And brought back the OEM springs. Trigger kit is still the same, though... I didn't find any observable issue with the connector as per @cindynles suggestion...

Am just waiting get time to head out to the range.


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  #15  
Old 11-10-2020, 7:03 AM
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UPDATE: Finally got the chance to do some detective work. Was able to get yesterday morning off from work and headed to Route 66.

Started off with simply replacing the guide rod assembly with OEM. Of course it worked. I went back to my 3rd-party ISMI with a stronger spring (from 13# to 15#). Works!!!

Albeit, I am confused why it has to be the recoil spring...


That said - I feel that the Gen 5s are a regression when compared to the Gen 3s... I have to fork out another $18 to get an extended magazine release to replace the flushed OEM one. I don't want to shift my grip when doing a reload. I just don't get why Glock doesn't sell an extended one like the Gen 3s (same for the slide lock/release lever)... Oh well, another rant, another story.

Thanks to all... And enjoy the day gentlemen...


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