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  #1  
Old 10-24-2019, 7:26 PM
jkuengineer jkuengineer is offline
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Default inconsistent neck sizing 338 Lapua using redding dies & Forster Co-Ax press

so i'm having a head scratching moment. i asked my local reloading store for advise and they said i'm doing everything correct. advised me to call redding they said the same thing.. not sure whats happening exactly here.

i have a co-ax press using the redding deluxe dies (not the competition bushing set). using S&B brass once fired. i have a set of brand new lapua brass but wanted to learn on this first.

so, i take out the primers using a primer die then tumble in walnut then cob. then i lube the cases and the necks (lyman spray on outsides and graphite dip inside the necks). then i put the full lenght sizing die in the press and adjust to where i get .002 neck push back with the case. the neck does get pushed down and resized every time i try to adjust but was told thats not a problem. so i get my die set correctly and lock in the nut. second case comes out ok. third case, pushed back .005... ok? two other cases come out ok then last case grew .005... i have no idea whats happening here.

then was told to only neck size by the redding rep to see if anything changes, which he told me also pushes the shoulder back as well just doesn't size the case down all the way. same thing im getting inconsistent results.

any idea what i may be doing wrong? i do have experience reloading 30-06 and other rounds but have never had this issue. i know this case is different but im pretty good at this stuff but this is a real head scratcher for me.

i know im doing something wrong. any advice is really appreciated. i tried hornady brass as well. same thing.
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  #2  
Old 10-24-2019, 7:29 PM
jkuengineer jkuengineer is offline
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for the measurements i have the RCBS 338 LM micrometer which measures your offset from the SAAMI specs my rifle chamber seems to be .001 larger then the minimum SAAMI numbers.

the cases that grew 4-6thou, is it ok to lube again and just size it again? i know the expander ball has some tightness when going through the neck again but was told its not an issue.
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  #3  
Old 10-24-2019, 9:02 PM
J-cat J-cat is online now
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Try Imperial sizing wax, and if that doesn’t help, convert the press to shell holders and get a Redding competition set, then adjust the die to hard stop on the shell holders during sizing.
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  #4  
Old 10-24-2019, 9:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J-cat View Post
Try Imperial sizing wax, and if that doesnít help, convert the press to shell holders and get a Redding competition set, then adjust the die to hard stop on the shell holders during sizing.
Thanks for the reply.

Iíll try the sizing wax. I tried hornady before all that got me was dented cases.

I really donít like using shell holders as the co-ax feature gives you a free floating x and y axis so the brass comes out concentric without moving over the brass.
Is this a common issue with this press? Doesnít put out consistent shoulders due to the shell holder?
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  #5  
Old 10-24-2019, 9:16 PM
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The press flexes under pressure so the lube friction variable combined with the press flex causes shoulder bump inconsistency. The only way to eliminate it is to adjust the die to hard stop against the shell holder. The problem with that method is you’ll be bumping the shoulder too much with most dies. Hence the competition shell holders. They have incrementally taller deck heights for precise shoulder bump.
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  #6  
Old 10-25-2019, 8:33 AM
divingin divingin is offline
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I suspect the same as JCat. Inconsistent lube causing inconsistent press stretch, resulting in inconsistent sizing.

One thing that may make your setup easier is to temporarily remove the decapping pin and expander. Set the die up so you get the right amount of bump, then reinstall the decapper/expander and recheck. Pushing and pulling the expander through can do weird things.

If you can reach the shoulder setback with what you're using now, I doubt going to a regular shellholder will get you much (though the hard stop would tell you when you've got the setup right, though the lock rings are supposed to do that as well.)

As an aside; I've never seen a dry tumbler do much to the primer pockets in terms of cleaning. If it were me, I'd lose the decap step before tumbling, and if I were worried about the pockets, use a pocket cleaner as a separate step.
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Old 10-25-2019, 9:01 AM
baih777 baih777 is offline
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Try annealing 5 cases and see if that helps.
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  #8  
Old 10-25-2019, 9:16 AM
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Quote:
any idea what i may be doing wrong?
Yes; I do not believe you have talked to one person that has a clue as to what happens when the case is sized. That include neck sizing. Reloaders believe they have the ability to move the shoulder back, some believe they are so good at it they can bump it back.

It is impossible to bump and or move the shoulder back with a die that has full case body support. I have moved shoulders back, when finished the case took on the appearance of a Volkswagen thermostat with bellows.

F. Guffey
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  #9  
Old 10-25-2019, 9:22 AM
fguffey fguffey is offline
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Quote:
The press flexes under pressure so the lube friction variable combined with the press flex causes shoulder bump inconsistency
Just how difficult is it to neck size a case? How tough are those cases?

A reloader should be able to determine If the case was full length sized before lowering the handle, And then there is flex; why can't a reloader determine the amount of flex. When I size a case I want to know if the case won or the press won.

F. Guffey
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Old 10-25-2019, 9:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fguffey View Post
Yes; I do not believe you have talked to one person that has a clue as to what happens when the case is sized. That include neck sizing. Reloaders believe they have the ability to move the shoulder back, some believe they are so good at it they can bump it back.

It is impossible to bump and or move the shoulder back with a die that has full case body support. I have moved shoulders back, when finished the case took on the appearance of a Volkswagen thermostat with bellows.

F. Guffey
Guffey
you are full of crap. and you know it.

I have two dies that have no issue pushing the shoulder back. Yes I measure the case before and after sizing and the shoulder does move.
one die is the Forster bushing bump die, the other is David Tubb's 6xc bushing small base sizer. Both can push the shoulder back .010" if you desire on fire formed brass.

I'm so damn sick and tired of you blathering on and on that you are the only one that knows anything. You're nothing but a self centered narcissistic idiot.

I've called you out multiple times, I'm calling you out again. Put up or shut up. Demonstrate how it's done or STFU and move on.
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  #11  
Old 10-25-2019, 1:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by divingin View Post
I suspect the same as JCat. Inconsistent lube causing inconsistent press stretch, resulting in inconsistent sizing.

One thing that may make your setup easier is to temporarily remove the decapping pin and expander. Set the die up so you get the right amount of bump, then reinstall the decapper/expander and recheck. Pushing and pulling the expander through can do weird things.

If you can reach the shoulder setback with what you're using now, I doubt going to a regular shellholder will get you much (though the hard stop would tell you when you've got the setup right, though the lock rings are supposed to do that as well.)

As an aside; I've never seen a dry tumbler do much to the primer pockets in terms of cleaning. If it were me, I'd lose the decap step before tumbling, and if I were worried about the pockets, use a pocket cleaner as a separate step.
Thanks for the advise!

So i took out the expanded ball and set the shoulder bump i got fairly consistent numbers. I put the expanded ball in and everything goes weird from 1 out of every 4.

Yea, the dry tumblin just cleans the outsides pretty well then i have a Lyman case prep i clean out the primer pockets afterwards.

Iím getting to the point that i need to try the shell holder on the co-ax and get the competition shell holders. Kinda bummed i had hopes for the Y axis float in the original co-ax design to eliminate runout.
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  #12  
Old 10-25-2019, 1:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by baih777 View Post
Try annealing 5 cases and see if that helps.
Thatís my next bet. Iím half way done with my annealer setup but all of them are just once fired cases.
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  #13  
Old 10-25-2019, 7:27 PM
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Originally Posted by jkuengineer View Post
So i took out the expanded ball and set the shoulder bump i got fairly consistent numbers.
I put the expanded ball in and everything goes weird from 1 out of every 4.
Your expander button is pulling the shoulder forward.
Get an expander mandrel in a separate die so you are expanding on the down stroke instead of the upstroke or have your die's neck diameter honed out some to get a closer match to what your brass needs so that there will not be so much tension when the button pulls back through the neck.

How much difference in neck diameter do you see on cases sized without the expander button vs the cases sized with the neck expander button in place?
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Old 10-25-2019, 8:11 PM
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That, or get a bushing die and don’t size the neck so much. Or get a Forster die with the neck honed out to match your brass.
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Old 10-25-2019, 11:23 PM
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That, or get a bushing die and donít size the neck so much. Or get a Forster die with the neck honed out to match your brass.
I can hone the neck on any brand of die to get it to the desired diameter.
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  #16  
Old 10-26-2019, 5:32 AM
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I have neck sizing dies; it is impossible to shorten the case between the shoulder/datum and the head of the case. I doubt I am the only reloader on any forum that has neck sizing dies that will not touch the shoulder of the case when neck sizing.

And then there is neck sizing with a full length sizing die: I do not believe there is too much for a reloader to keep up with when neck sizing a case with a full length sizing die.

When using a full length sizing die for neck sizing I adjust the die off the shell holder (how much)? I start off with .010" , I understand there is not one reloader on any forum that can keep up with that but with the die adjusted off the shell holder .010" the case length from the shoulder/datum to the case head would have to be longer than a no go-gage length chamber before the shoulder of the case would contact the shoulder of the die.

What does all of this mean? It means if the die is adjusted off the shell holder and all of the case neck is sized the case is long from the shoulder of the case to the case head 'or' the chamber the case the case was fired in is .001" longer than a no go-gage length chamber.

I have minimum length/full length sized cases, I have go-gage length chambers and I have chambers that are beyond field reject length cases.

F. Guffey
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Old 10-26-2019, 7:46 AM
mtenenhaus mtenenhaus is offline
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i was having a heck of a time with my reloads as well.

I ended up sending my Forster full length sizing dies to Forster along with fire formed cases...they honed and minutely shortened the die. This seems to have helped. They were very nice to work with.

At the same time i purchased their neck sizing dies with the hope that i would generally employ whichever was needed based on interval case measurements.

Employing the Whidden case gauge, a caliper and the Forster Datum Dial system i am now able to confirm that i'm effectively altering dimensional change....the fact that i can now chamber the cartridges without much effort has been very gratifying. Interestingly at least with the Lapua brass that i've been using, I've not had to shorten the overall case length...at least so far, but i'll keep checking.

...I probably should have tried the expander mandrel method which may well have solved some of my reloading challenges with less cost and headache but I'm still new to much of this and learning.

I realize i over purchased tools in this journey but each trial and the help from this forum has afforded me new lessons and information. Kind of cool.

please let us know what works for you

Last edited by mtenenhaus; 10-26-2019 at 8:05 AM..
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Old 10-26-2019, 9:17 PM
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A neck sizing die is not used to push the shoulder back.
A body die is used for that operation or a Skip Otto die and you can move the shoulder a full inch without any problem at all unless your name is Guffey.
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Old 10-27-2019, 8:00 AM
fguffey fguffey is offline
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Quote:
I realize i over purchased tools in this journey but each trial and the help from this forum has afforded me new lessons and information. Kind of cool.

please let us know what works for you
There is no substitute for knowing everything there is to know about a tool. When sizing a case I can use one die and one shell holder for sizing cases from minimum length/full length sizing to infinity. For me infinity is measured from the shoulder to the case head when sizing cases for very long chambers when measured from the shoulder of the chamber to the bolt face.

And then there are short chambers that are shorter from the shoulder of the chamber to the bolt face. When sizing cases for short chambers the RCBS shell holder is my favorite shell holder. The Herter shell holder is my least favorite shell holder when sizing cases for short chambers; the Herter shell holder qualifies as my favorite for other purposes.

I have a grinder that grinds in-line, angles and for length, I understand reloaders send dies back to manufacturers for custom fitting, I have never found it necessary; that is because I have not run out of ideals on ways dies can be used.

F. Guffey
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Old 10-27-2019, 4:21 PM
mtenenhaus mtenenhaus is offline
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I didn't mean to hijack the thread so i hope it's ok to ask..... but i'm really trying to better understand the concept...i was under the impression that the Forster Bushing Bump Neck Sizing Die would do both....size the neck and bump the shoulder...they claim that the die allows one "to precisely control the amount of bullet tension in your reloaded cartridges. A one-step neck sizing reduction/shoulder bump operation keeps your case necks straighter."

It supposedly sizes the case neck and shoulder to set headspace and deprimes the fire formed case.
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Old 10-28-2019, 6:02 AM
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It supposedly sizes the case neck and shoulder to set headspace and deprimes the fire formed case.
Reloaders trying to reinvent reloading, most of them have identity crises.

I was reading reloading forums on the Internet when I started reading claims about bump dies and then it got sillier; reloaders were claiming they could set the head space on a case etc. etc. And then I read further, they were claiming the dies were Redding dies.

I know there is no need to talk to the claims departments in all of these reloading forums so I called Redding. I asked them about their body dies, I ask them about their bump dies and then I ask them how is it possible to full length sized a case with a die that does not have full body support.

He resounded with; " you know and I know that is impossible". and then I aske him to explain to me how is it possible to move a shoulder back by 'bumping'. If the die has full body support it is impossible to move the shoulder back or bump it back.

I can move the shoulder of a case back as in shorten the case from the shoulder to the case head, I can not shorten a case from the shoulder of the case to the case head with a die that has full body case support. It is weird, my cases do not have head space because SAAMI says my cases not have head space. But it is OK if I off set the length of the chamber from the shoulder of the chamber to the bolt face with the length of the case from the shoulder to the case head. What ever is left over is clearance.

Reading has bushing dies, the bushing die supports the case body and shoulder. Supporting the neck is optional, the option is to support the neck with a bushing or not support the neck with a bushing. And then? There is the shoulder/neck juncture and donuts;

I have competition seating dies, I have sizing dies that have full body support. The shoulder I finish with is not the same shoulder I started with.

F. Guffey
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Old 10-28-2019, 8:19 AM
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Would you be happy with the following:

“I bumped the shoulder location back .002”
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Old 10-28-2019, 8:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fguffey View Post
Reloaders trying to reinvent reloading, most of them have identity crises.

I was reading reloading forums on the Internet when I started reading claims about bump dies and then it got sillier; reloaders were claiming they could set the head space on a case etc. etc. And then I read further, they were claiming the dies were Redding dies.

I know there is no need to talk to the claims departments in all of these reloading forums so I called Redding. I asked them about their body dies, I ask them about their bump dies and then I ask them how is it possible to full length sized a case with a die that does not have full body support.

He resounded with; " you know and I know that is impossible". and then I aske him to explain to me how is it possible to move a shoulder back by 'bumping'. If the die has full body support it is impossible to move the shoulder back or bump it back.

I can move the shoulder of a case back as in shorten the case from the shoulder to the case head, I can not shorten a case from the shoulder of the case to the case head with a die that has full body case support. It is weird, my cases do not have head space because SAAMI says my cases not have head space. But it is OK if I off set the length of the chamber from the shoulder of the chamber to the bolt face with the length of the case from the shoulder to the case head. What ever is left over is clearance.

Reading has bushing dies, the bushing die supports the case body and shoulder. Supporting the neck is optional, the option is to support the neck with a bushing or not support the neck with a bushing. And then? There is the shoulder/neck juncture and donuts;

I have competition seating dies, I have sizing dies that have full body support. The shoulder I finish with is not the same shoulder I started with.

F. Guffey

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Old 10-28-2019, 8:58 AM
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Originally Posted by mtenenhaus View Post
i was under the impression that the Forster Bushing Bump Neck Sizing Die would do both....size the neck and bump the shoulder...
I have one for 308. It does what it says.

The die-into-press (or die into press bushing, in my case) thread sets the shoulder, then the retaining plug (or bushing or whatever you want to call it) for the neck bushing sets the amount of neck that is sized.

FWIW, I found it to work pretty well for a non-custom die. Plus, depending on how you set it up, you can use it to neck size only (pull the body of the die up so the shoulder is not touched), set the shoulder only (remove the bushing), decap only (pull the bushing and set the die up off the shoulder.) Or do two or all three at once.
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Old 10-28-2019, 10:22 AM
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Lotta words for "brass flows".
If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with BS...
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Old 10-28-2019, 10:59 AM
fguffey fguffey is offline
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Quote:
“I bumped the shoulder location back .002”
What is so impossible to understand about bumping the shoulder back; it is impossible to bump and or move the shoulder back with a die that has case body support. It is not my fault, I do not make the rules.

Many years ago I found myself in the middle of a press transition; I went from a cam over press to a non-cam over press. I had the misfortune of keeping the instructions for both presses. The cam over press was identified as a bump press; there is no way to make this stuff up. Not my fault, I still have the instructions.

Bump is a function of a press, bump does not apply unless the press is a cam over press. The last RCBS cam over press I operated was an A2 press.

All of my Herteer presses are cam over presses, all of my Herter presses are bump presses because that is what a cam over press does.

And then came the Internet. I doubt I could find one reloader with a set of instructions for a non cam over press and a cam over press. My bump presses bump twice, once on the way up and again on the way down. I have 3 Rock Chuckers, none of my Rock Chuckers cam over, my rock checkers are not bump presses.

F. Guffey
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Old 10-28-2019, 11:43 AM
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Originally Posted by fguffey View Post
What is so impossible to understand about bumping the shoulder back; it is impossible to bump and or move the shoulder back with a die that has case body support. It is not my fault, I do not make the rules.
What is impossible to understand about the English language? Bumping the shoulder location back .002Ē has the same meaning as 1. Forming a new shoulder on a case or 2. Relocating the shoulder on a case. Do you understand simple English?
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Old 10-28-2019, 12:17 PM
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Originally Posted by fguffey View Post
But it is OK if I off set the length of the chamber from the shoulder of the chamber to the bolt face with the length of the case from the shoulder to the case head. What ever is left over is clearance.

F. Guffey
So, finally, here's the answer. I see, it's called "Clearance" Clarence.
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Old 10-28-2019, 12:22 PM
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Quote:
Do you understand simple English?
I am the only reloader that understands the shoulder does not move back, I am the only reloaders that understands if the shoulder is moved back the case bulges at the shoulder/case body.

The seating die does not have case body support, I know, it is a mind boggling thing but when a reloader seats a bullet and crimps the neck at the same there is a big chance the case will bulge at the shoulder/case body juncture.

Because without case body support the shoulder was moved back,

F. Guffey

Last edited by fguffey; 10-28-2019 at 12:25 PM..
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Old 10-28-2019, 1:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fguffey View Post
I am the only reloader that understands the shoulder does not move back, I am the only reloaders that understands if the shoulder is moved back the case bulges at the shoulder/case body.

The seating die does not have case body support, I know, it is a mind boggling thing but when a reloader seats a bullet and crimps the neck at the same there is a big chance the case will bulge at the shoulder/case body juncture.

Because without case body support the shoulder was moved back,

F. Guffey

none of my current rifle calibers are crimped. NONE.

Last edited by kcstott; 10-29-2019 at 3:58 AM..
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Old 10-28-2019, 6:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fguffey View Post
I am the only reloader that understands the shoulder does not move back, I am the only reloaders that understands if the shoulder is moved back the case bulges at the shoulder/case body.

The seating die does not have case body support, I know, it is a mind boggling thing but when a reloader seats a bullet and crimps the neck at the same there is a big chance the case will bulge at the shoulder/case body juncture.

Because without case body support the shoulder was moved back,

F. Guffey
So when I use the sizing die to shorten the case length from the case head to the shoulder, basically relocating the position of the shoulder on said case, I am not allowed to say I ďbumped the location of the shoulderĒ???

And stop saying youíre the only one because you arenít.
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Old 10-29-2019, 4:01 AM
kcstott kcstott is offline
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So when I use the sizing die to shorten the case length from the case head to the shoulder, basically relocating the position of the shoulder on said case, I am not allowed to say I ďbumped the location of the shoulderĒ???

And stop saying youíre the only one because you arenít.
This is all he ever argues. Itís not the process itís the word you used for the process. Just like his entire headspace argument. Heís just plying semantics and itís getting old.
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Old 10-29-2019, 4:09 AM
kcstott kcstott is offline
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Originally Posted by fguffey View Post
I am the only reloader that understands the shoulder does not move back, I am the only reloaders that understands if the shoulder is moved back the case bulges at the shoulder/case body.

The seating die does not have case body support, I know, it is a mind boggling thing but when a reloader seats a bullet and crimps the neck at the same there is a big chance the case will bulge at the shoulder/case body juncture.

Because without case body support the shoulder was moved back,

F. Guffey
Hey Guff you know some of us spend money on good dies. As in benchrest dies. My Forster and reading seating dies have case body support. Your off the shelf standard dies don’t, That I know. But I spend good money on good dies for this reason.
Now let me blow your mind, I have a die, a sizing die that can move the shoulder back independently of the body sizing and I can small base the case independently of the shoulder set back. And I can do this to an accuracy that is determined by the spring back of the brass. But I also anneal every firing on an AMP Mark II annealer something I’m sure you have zero experience with.
Oh and I’m not the only one in possession of these special dies. I’m no one special. I just placed an order and received what was advertised.

Last edited by kcstott; 10-29-2019 at 6:56 AM..
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  #34  
Old 10-29-2019, 6:34 AM
LynnJr LynnJr is online now
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Originally Posted by mtenenhaus View Post
I didn't mean to hijack the thread so i hope it's ok to ask..... but i'm really trying to better understand the concept...i was under the impression that the Forster Bushing Bump Neck Sizing Die would do both....size the neck and bump the shoulder...they claim that the die allows one "to precisely control the amount of bullet tension in your reloaded cartridges. A one-step neck sizing reduction/shoulder bump operation keeps your case necks straighter."

It supposedly sizes the case neck and shoulder to set headspace and deprimes the fire formed case.

A neck die is used to reduce the neck diameter with minimal sizing of the brass. The Redding type S dies full length size but use bushings to set the necks diameter. This is for the reloader who wants to control the neck tension if his brass when various brands are used or the necks have been turned or the reloader has tight chambers and factory chambers like Guffey uses.
A body die is 0.005 - 0.010 larger in the neck diameter than other dies so you only affect the body of the brass without touching the neck hence the name body die.
If you have very long brass like 270 or 30-06 and you want to move the shoulder back a full inch you use a Skip Otto die which is something Guffey has never done or ever heard of because he says it's impossible to do.
The picture says it all.
Guffey cannot create the brass in the photo and says it is impossible to do yet there it is.
He is in a crisis whenever reality arises.
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Last edited by LynnJr; 10-29-2019 at 6:37 AM..
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Old 10-29-2019, 9:18 AM
fguffey fguffey is offline
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So when I use the sizing die to shorten the case length from the case head to the shoulder, basically relocating the position of the shoulder on said case, I am not allowed to say I “bumped the location of the shoulder”???
I have said reloaders are mechanically challenged. It is not my fault; you believe you are relocating the position of the shoulder, for some reason it is not obvious to you, you are not moving the shoulder, you are forming a new shoulder. the old shoulder is becoming part of the neck, The new shoulder is being formed from the case body.

You are not moving and or bumping, bumping is a function of the press, if the press is not a cam over press it does not bump.

there was a rash of reloaders that were singing the praise of the bump die, it was like everyone should start using them. I called Redding, I asked them to explain to me how the bump die worked; I explained to them it was impossible to move the shoulder back and or bump the shoulder back with a die that has full case body contact/support. It was about that time Redding explained to me I know that and you know that etc. etc..

F. Guffey

I can only guess there is something that is cool about using the word 'bump', and then there is a chance reloaders are using the word bump to convince other reloaders they are cool and capable of repeating what they have read on the Internet.

Last edited by fguffey; 10-29-2019 at 9:23 AM..
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Old 10-29-2019, 10:06 AM
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Originally Posted by fguffey View Post
I have said reloaders are mechanically challenged. It is not my fault; you believe you are relocating the position of the shoulder, for some reason it is not obvious to you, you are not moving the shoulder, you are forming a new shoulder. the old shoulder is becoming part of the neck, The new shoulder is being formed from the case body.

You are not moving and or bumping, bumping is a function of the press, if the press is not a cam over press it does not bump.

there was a rash of reloaders that were singing the praise of the bump die, it was like everyone should start using them. I called Redding, I asked them to explain to me how the bump die worked; I explained to them it was impossible to move the shoulder back and or bump the shoulder back with a die that has full case body contact/support. It was about that time Redding explained to me I know that and you know that etc. etc..

F. Guffey

I can only guess there is something that is cool about using the word 'bump', and then there is a chance reloaders are using the word bump to convince other reloaders they are cool and capable of repeating what they have read on the Internet.
Yeah guff we fully understand the process. but splitting hairs is getting old.

And yet you say "Reload" & "Reloader" Well I'll have you know when I load up brand new brass there is no reloading going on. I "make" ammunition, I "build" ammunition, I'll even go so far as to say I manufacture ammunition. but I do not "load" or "reload". I dispense loads of powder. I measure Loads of powder. I load ammunition into chambers, cylinders, magazines, and clips both stripper and Enblok.

So do you "Drive" an automobile? or do you "pilot" it? or is it "operate"? Because it's all the same damn thing.
I bet you think you are cooling down your tea when you put ice in it but you are actually warming the ice.

See we can play this stupid game all day long but if your only argument is the choice of words someone uses?? man you have a lot of time on your hands.

Stop focusing on the minutia and you'll be a far easier person to get along with.

Last edited by kcstott; 10-29-2019 at 10:08 AM..
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  #37  
Old 10-29-2019, 10:39 AM
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Originally Posted by fguffey View Post
you are not moving the shoulder, you are forming a new shoulder. the old shoulder is becoming part of the neck,
F. Guffey
Well, he is correct here.

Some of us do know what you are saying...However, you like being argumentative and boastful at times. Therefore most people will immediately dismiss what you are saying.
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Old 10-29-2019, 11:01 AM
Dave626 Dave626 is online now
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here is my most Concentric & consistent way for loading 338lm. i use Lee collet neck sizer die (it gave me .002 runout readding from my 21st Concentricity Gauge). Then i run it through with Redding body die (50 bux). I seat the bullet with arbor press with force gauge. I can tell the neck tension is very consistent when i anneal every 2 firing. i stop using all those neck bushing die, it generates a lot neck runout (For me). You don't need to lube the neck from using the Lee Collet Neck sizer die. a learn this method from the Precision rifle forum.

I ran into similar / not exactly situation as OP. When i first start reloading, i put too much or too little imperial sizing wax on the case which gave me all different # headspace reading. After i switch to the spray Dillon Precision Case Lube, the problem went away.

Last edited by Dave626; 10-29-2019 at 11:16 AM..
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Old 10-29-2019, 4:32 PM
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So I guess that means......

We're not "resizing" brass. We're forming new brass.
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Old 10-29-2019, 5:40 PM
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Originally Posted by fguffey View Post
I have said reloaders are mechanically challenged. It is not my fault; you believe you are relocating the position of the shoulder, for some reason it is not obvious to you, you are not moving the shoulder, you are forming a new shoulder. the old shoulder is becoming part of the neck, The new shoulder is being formed from the case body.

You are not moving and or bumping, bumping is a function of the press, if the press is not a cam over press it does not bump.

there was a rash of reloaders that were singing the praise of the bump die, it was like everyone should start using them. I called Redding, I asked them to explain to me how the bump die worked; I explained to them it was impossible to move the shoulder back and or bump the shoulder back with a die that has full case body contact/support. It was about that time Redding explained to me I know that and you know that etc. etc..

F. Guffey

I can only guess there is something that is cool about using the word 'bump', and then there is a chance reloaders are using the word bump to convince other reloaders they are cool and capable of repeating what they have read on the Internet.
I disagree. I am relocating the position of the shoulder on a fired case. I realize you are socially challenged but even a monkey can understand what Iím describing.
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