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2nd Amend. Litigation Updates & Legal Discussion Discuss California 2A related litigation and legal topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #3521  
Old 03-24-2021, 8:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Ceemack View Post
Maybe. But the only appeal after Thomas gets the decision he wants is SCOTUS, and the no-shoulders “conservatives” (Roberts, Kavanaugh and Barrett) won’t vote for cert on this one.

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So,what? The question was about process, not anguished hand-wringing from nay-sayers.

If there is a basic, obvious error on the part of the court, even “round shoulder” justices will field the call. Remember (or learn for the first time) that the issue isn’t what decision was made, but whether the decision process was correct.

Kind of like grade schoolers when teachers demanded you show your work. Intuitively, you had the right answer, but you had to show your work to prove your deduction was correct. Correct answer, but wrong process fails.
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  #3522  
Old 04-02-2021, 6:04 AM
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https://www.foxnews.com/politics/22-...y-magazine-ban
  #3523  
Old 04-02-2021, 8:15 AM
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BRIEF OF TWENTY-TWO STATES AS AMICI CURIAE IN SUPPORT OF PLAINTIFFS-APPELLEES ON EN BANC REHEARING
  #3524  
Old 04-02-2021, 8:56 AM
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Missing,

Florida
North Carolina
Georgia
North Dakota
Tennessee


Not sure why these states did join.
  #3525  
Old 04-02-2021, 11:30 AM
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Why even bother? We know EXACTLY what the en banc decision would be.
  #3526  
Old 04-02-2021, 11:51 AM
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Why even bother? We know EXACTLY what the en banc decision would be.
Do we ? It's possible to get a good pick of judges, the odds favor against it , but it's possible.
  #3527  
Old 04-02-2021, 12:58 PM
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Originally Posted by abinsinia View Post
Do we ? It's possible to get a good pick of judges, the odds favor against it , but it's possible.
Seems statistically plausible that if we get enough bad en banc panels, we should eventually get a good one.

En Banc panels in the 9th are like flipping 4 pennies in the air and hoping they'll all be "heads". Most of the time they won't be, but if you keep flipping them enough times, it'll happen eventually.
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  #3528  
Old 04-02-2021, 1:01 PM
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Seems statistically plausible that if we get enough bad en banc panels, we should eventually get a good one.

En Banc panels in the 9th are like flipping 4 pennies in the air and hoping they'll all be "heads". Most of the time they won't be, but if you keep flipping them enough times, it'll happen eventually.

I would try it right now but I don’t want to risk any good luck that might be floating in the air right now haha
  #3529  
Old 04-02-2021, 1:50 PM
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Originally Posted by CandG View Post
Seems statistically plausible that if we get enough bad en banc panels, we should eventually get a good one.

En Banc panels in the 9th are like flipping 4 pennies in the air and hoping they'll all be "heads". Most of the time they won't be, but if you keep flipping them enough times, it'll happen eventually.


  #3530  
Old 04-02-2021, 2:07 PM
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I don't know if it's random or not .. I assume it is, but there is no way to know.
  #3531  
Old 04-02-2021, 4:40 PM
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Originally Posted by CandG View Post
Seems statistically plausible that if we get enough bad en banc panels, we should eventually get a good one.

En Banc panels in the 9th are like flipping 4 pennies in the air and hoping they'll all be "heads". Most of the time they won't be, but if you keep flipping them enough times, it'll happen eventually.

Or the chief judge can keep flipping the pennies until he gets the results he wants.

Your assumption that the process is fair seems quaint to me.


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  #3532  
Old 04-02-2021, 4:47 PM
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Do we ? It's possible to get a good pick of judges, the odds favor against it , but it's possible.
There will be no good pickings. Chances are ZERO
  #3533  
Old 04-02-2021, 8:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Offwidth View Post
There will be no good pickings. Chances are ZERO
Chances aren't ZERO, but they are less than 50%; so better hope SCotUS drops some favorable 2A decisions. Otherwise, the 2A in the CA9 states is f**ked. What was the characterization - a disfavored right???
  #3534  
Old 04-02-2021, 9:02 PM
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Chances aren't ZERO, but they are less than 50%; so better hope SCotUS drops some favorable 2A decisions. Otherwise, the 2A in the CA9 states is f**ked. What was the characterization - a disfavored right???

They’re too busy taking up a case of a cheerleader that said the F word on social media and the the school suspended her from cheerleading. Not school mind you, just cheerleading . They’ve become a joke.
  #3535  
Old 04-03-2021, 7:36 AM
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^^^ THIS is all anyone needs to know about the current state of the SC and it's make up.

How is it not possible for so many to see exactly how this ends. You don't need to read every last page of this ***** book to know how it ends.

There will be NO relief. The black robes will NOT come to your rescue.

Everybody knows the dice are loaded... Everybody knows the good guys lost...
  #3536  
Old 04-03-2021, 9:23 AM
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Everybody knows the dice are loaded... Everybody knows the good guys lost...
Everybody knows the fight was fixed
The poor stay poor, the rich get rich
That's how it goes......

Everybody knows
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  #3537  
Old 04-03-2021, 1:10 PM
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Start building your underground vaults now.
  #3538  
Old 04-06-2021, 11:48 AM
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^ don’t forget to put a copy of the Declaration of Independence, The Bill of Rights to preserve the Constitution in that vault.
  #3539  
Old 04-06-2021, 12:15 PM
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^ don’t forget to put a copy of the Declaration of Independence, The Bill of Rights to preserve the Constitution in that vault.
Because maybe in the future our leaders will care what those documents say
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  #3540  
Old 04-06-2021, 4:17 PM
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^ don’t forget to put a copy of the Declaration of Independence, The Bill of Rights to preserve the Constitution in that vault.
The Dead Sea Scrolls come to mind....
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  #3541  
Old 04-06-2021, 6:20 PM
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^ don’t forget to put a copy of the Declaration of Independence, The Bill of Rights to preserve the Constitution in that vault.
Or memorize them word for word.
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  #3542  
Old 04-20-2021, 8:24 PM
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Can anyone here explain their basis for still having faith in the courts upholding the Constitution? Don't give me the old "what's the alternative?" That question was answered in 1776.
  #3543  
Old 04-20-2021, 9:13 PM
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Both Benitez and the panel of three did a fantastic job of arguing that standard capacity magazines are necessary for women and people of color to defend themselves from home invasion and hate crimes. They’ve teed up an excellent argument for SCOTUS to issue a pro-2A on behalf of women and people of color as the fundamental human right to self-defense against hate crimes.

That’s why you see so little in the press about the case from the CA AG: the judges are forcing them to take a position against women and fore helplessness in the face of hate crimes.

Imagine Judge Amy penning an opinion that starts by talking about the rooftop Koreans and the Deacons in the civil rights era returning fire against the KKK.

Last edited by Foothills; 04-22-2021 at 10:43 AM..
  #3544  
Old 04-20-2021, 9:37 PM
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Or imagine the SC declines cert and the case, and our rights, slip quietly away into the night.
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  #3545  
Old 04-21-2021, 5:03 AM
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That’s why you see so little in the press about the case from the CA AG...
DOJ doesn’t try their cases in the press. That’s why you see so little in the press about the case from the AG.
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  #3546  
Old 04-21-2021, 9:02 AM
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Fire the first shot, keyboard warrior! We will be right behind you!

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Can anyone here explain their basis for still having faith in the courts upholding the Constitution? Don't give me the old "what's the alternative?" That question was answered in 1776.
  #3547  
Old 04-21-2021, 9:12 AM
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Originally Posted by johnireland View Post
Can anyone here explain their basis for still having faith in the courts upholding the Constitution? Don't give me the old "what's the alternative?" That question was answered in 1776.
I see a distinct lack of news headlines today saying that someone has taken up arms against CA over its gun laws today.

Which means you're doing exactly the same thing as all the rest of us, big guy.

Keep pounding away at that keyboard, you're doing God's work.
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  #3548  
Old 04-21-2021, 9:22 AM
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Originally Posted by johnireland View Post
Can anyone here explain their basis for still having faith in the courts upholding the Constitution? Don't give me the old "what's the alternative?" That question was answered in 1776.
I do.... simply in the hope that, if you're real, it will annoy you.

BTW, Patriots Day came and went on the 19th, yet I didn't see anything about you in the papers....Way to lead from the front.
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  #3549  
Old 04-21-2021, 9:45 AM
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Originally Posted by ColdDeadHands1 View Post
Or imagine the SC declines cert and the case, and our rights, slip quietly away into the night.
Most likely outcome.
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  #3550  
Old 04-22-2021, 1:10 AM
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Can someone explain to a stranger who is not an American, how it works?

So, let's imagine that final decision was made and LCM's ban was named unconstitutional.

Two questions:
1. How California will compensate years of unconstitutional/unlawful restrictions to the residents?
2. What about responsibility of the people, who made unlawful decisions?

Don't understand me wrong, I'm just trying to get the differences and similarities with USSR, where I was born and grown. For USSR, for example, social standard was "Nothing/No responsibility" in such cases.

So, if dozens of millions of people was unlawfully restricted for years, what's the social standard for US in such cases? I'm not trolling, I'm just asking.
  #3551  
Old 04-22-2021, 1:41 AM
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Originally Posted by sdv View Post
Can someone explain to a stranger who is not an American, how it works?

So, let's imagine that final decision was made and LCM's ban was named unconstitutional.

Two questions:
1. How California will compensate years of unconstitutional/unlawful restrictions to the residents?
2. What about responsibility of the people, who made unlawful decisions?

Don't understand me wrong, I'm just trying to get the differences and similarities with USSR, where I was born and grown. For USSR, for example, social standard was "Nothing/No responsibility" in such cases.

So, if dozens of millions of people was unlawfully restricted for years, what's the social standard for US in such cases? I'm not trolling, I'm just asking.
1. Not at all.
2. None whatsoever.

Also:
"Whoops. We'll try passing a different ban that might survive judicial scrutiny." ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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  #3552  
Old 04-22-2021, 7:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sdv View Post
Don't understand me wrong, I'm just trying to get the differences and similarities with USSR, where I was born and grown.
For USSR, for example, social standard was "Nothing/No responsibility" in such cases.

So, if dozens of millions of people was unlawfully restricted for years, what's the social standard for US in such cases?
Welcome to the UCSC comrad.
That's the Union California Socialist Counties.
It's the same here as in the USSR.

Last edited by ar15barrels; 04-22-2021 at 7:27 AM..
  #3553  
Old 04-22-2021, 8:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sdv View Post
Can someone explain to a stranger who is not an American, how it works?

So, let's imagine that final decision was made and LCM's ban was named unconstitutional.

Two questions:
1. How California will compensate years of unconstitutional/unlawful restrictions to the residents?
2. What about responsibility of the people, who made unlawful decisions?

Don't understand me wrong, I'm just trying to get the differences and similarities with USSR, where I was born and grown. For USSR, for example, social standard was "Nothing/No responsibility" in such cases.

So, if dozens of millions of people was unlawfully restricted for years, what's the social standard for US in such cases? I'm not trolling, I'm just asking.
I'm not an attorney, but I'll play along.

1) I'd guess you need to prove you were somehow, financially harmed/actually lost money by not having access to standard capacity mags. Maybe a clever lawyer can come up with something, but I doubt it's going to get anywhere.

2) Just because a law is overturned doesn't mean it was unlawful when it passed. Slavery was legal until it wasn't, but I don't think former slave owners went to jail for owning other people.
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  #3554  
Old 04-22-2021, 8:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sdv View Post
Can someone explain to a stranger who is not an American, how it works?

So, let's imagine that final decision was made and LCM's ban was named unconstitutional.

Two questions:
1. How California will compensate years of unconstitutional/unlawful restrictions to the residents?
It won't.

Quote:
2. What about responsibility of the people, who made unlawful decisions?
People convicted of violating the law can petition the court to set aside their convictions.

Quote:
So, if dozens of millions of people was unlawfully restricted for years, what's the social standard for US in such cases? I'm not trolling, I'm just asking.
Legislators can pass any law they want given executive consent or a super majority.

They face no repercussions if it's found to be unconstitutional, and the people who suffered under the law get no compensation.
  #3555  
Old 04-22-2021, 9:09 AM
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^^^ and the people who suffered under the law get no compensation.


thats the truth....
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  #3556  
Old 04-22-2021, 10:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sdv View Post
Two questions:
1. How California will compensate years of unconstitutional/unlawful restrictions to the residents?
2. What about responsibility of the people, who made unlawful decisions?

Don't understand me wrong, I'm just trying to get the differences and similarities with USSR, where I was born and grown. For USSR, for example, social standard was "Nothing/No responsibility" in such cases.

So, if dozens of millions of people was unlawfully restricted for years, what's the social standard for US in such cases? I'm not trolling, I'm just asking.
#1 - The courts usually craft the "remedy" such that the changes are only prospective. Though, even if we lose en banc and it ends there, I wouldn't be surprised if the court "lets" everyone keep their Freedom Week magazines to not run afoul of government "taking" restrictions. Future sales would still be prohibited.

#2 - Usually those Democrats responsible are promoted to higher office or given an ambassadorship or other plumb assignment to reward them for violating the civil rights of Republicans. Kamala Harris is now Vice-President and Becerra is Health & Human Services secretary for example.
  #3557  
Old 04-22-2021, 4:56 PM
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Originally Posted by ColdDeadHands1 View Post
Or imagine the SC declines cert and the case, and our rights, slip quietly away into the night.
^THIS.
  #3558  
Old 04-22-2021, 8:35 PM
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Originally Posted by bronco75a View Post
^THIS.
I don't understand. If the SCOTUS denies cert, doesn't Benitez's ruling or the en-banc ruling stand and mags are once again legal?
  #3559  
Old 04-22-2021, 9:20 PM
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Originally Posted by dogcatcher View Post
I don't understand. If the SCOTUS denies cert, doesn't Benitez's ruling or the en-banc ruling stand and mags are once again legal?
There has not been an en banc ruling. If we lose that (which is the probable outcome), then it's SCOTUS or loss.
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  #3560  
Old 04-23-2021, 4:11 AM
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This will end up in limbo for years and then denied at en banc and then SCOTUS by that time the 2nd AMENDMENDMENT will have been abolished through executive order. And all of these law suits blow away with the SANTA ANNA WINDS. There will be no justice through the courts we will have to take back our rights by brute force.
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