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  #41  
Old 08-24-2020, 8:45 AM
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running bitcoin
Two questions for the OP:

1. What does your thread title actually mean? "running" bitcoin. What do you mean by, "running"? It seems an awkward use of the verb.

2. What is your interest in telling others about bitcoin? What do you gain?


I have my own opinions regarding cryptocurrency. I know what Bitcoin is and I know what it isn't.

Please, do your best at answering my two questions? Thanks.
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  #42  
Old 08-24-2020, 9:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by easyrider123 View Post
Bitcoin and real estate have the similarity of being a finite resource.
For instance, you canít just go build a house in Laguna Beach, theres not land available to build on, and that helps secure property value. 
Bitcoin has a capped supply, we know exactly how much bitcoin there is and will be on any given moment in time, 21M (each 1 is fractional to 100M). 

However, there are some differencesÖ

Barrier of Entry (hundreds of thousands vs fractions of a penny), Cost to carry (taxes, maintenance, loan interest, bitcoin has none), Liquidity (you can get in and out of bitcoin instantly), Property Rights (globally, not everyone can secure their property ownership with oppressive governments and war; bitcoin cannot be seized). 



With QE, asset prices are likely to rise, owning real estate will likely perform well which in turn increases the barrier of entry, which disproportionately affects the younger demographics. Bitcoin is likely a more viable asset class to those people and itís very likely to be the fastest moving horse in the asset appreciation race, which helps close the gap for millennials to enter the real estate market.
This is true, however you cant lose real estate just because you forgot a password.
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  #43  
Old 08-25-2020, 12:05 PM
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Originally Posted by 200Apples View Post
1. What does your thread title actually mean? "running" bitcoin. What do you mean by, "running"? It seems an awkward use of the verb.
I'd agree. Just as awkward and stupid as saying "running a gun".
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  #44  
Old 08-31-2020, 12:18 PM
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Originally Posted by the86d View Post
John McAfee said it'd blow up...
Not as much as he thought, but he said it'd blow up, and it did.
Let's be honest though, John's not a reliable resource or a positive image for the community.
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  #45  
Old 08-31-2020, 12:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 200Apples View Post
Two questions for the OP:

1. What does your thread title actually mean? "running" bitcoin. What do you mean by, "running"? It seems an awkward use of the verb.


2. What is your interest in telling others about bitcoin? What do you gain?


I have my own opinions regarding cryptocurrency. I know what Bitcoin is and I know what it isn't.

Please, do your best at answering my two questions? Thanks.

1. I'm glad someone asked this question! It's symbolic, "running bitcoin" was tweeted by Hal Finney, who was the first known person to work with Satoshi Nakamoto to use and improve the bitcoin software. Some say that Hal actually was the anonymous Satoshi as well (I happen to believe this theory), but no one can prove it to be true or false. Hal died of ALS around the time Satoshi disappeared. The running bitcoin tweet is also the first ever tweet mentioning bitcoin, and since I was the first one creating discussion about bitcoin on this forum I couldn't help but reference it. Good question.

2. My interest is simply in helping educate the Calguns community. I don't gain anything outside of knowing that I contributed said education to this community, or perhaps peripherally seeing what questions/misunderstandings people have helps build my personal articulation of the subject. Ultimately, when people see how awesome this tech is, they want to share it with others. I do own bitcoin, but to benefit financially from people buying it you have to be driving Billions of dollars in investment. It's something like $100M a day just for the price to stay flat as new coins are mined / the circulating supply grows.

Feel free to share your thoughts on what it is and what it isn't.
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  #46  
Old 08-31-2020, 12:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Neil McCauley View Post
This is true, however you cant lose real estate just because you forgot a password.
I store private keys (password) on a Simbit, which is a 316 stainless steel wallet (it's what they wrap nuclear fuel in) buried somewhere only I know about. Outside of receiving brain damage and forgetting where that is, I virtually cannot lose my keys.
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  #47  
Old 08-31-2020, 12:52 PM
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Originally Posted by -hanko View Post
I'd agree. Just as awkward and stupid as saying "running a gun".
I responded to the question directly.
Regarding your comment, why is it awkward or stupid? How is "running a gun" awkward/stupid?

"running" is simply synonymous with something that is not static. You can write code which is static until it is deployed where it is then operational, or running.

Your car's engine is running. Your refrigerator is running. Your computer is running. The kit of which you are utilizing is being run.

I'm running Ni BCG's in all my AR's.
OoOo how awful of me to say. Dork.
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  #48  
Old 08-31-2020, 2:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Neil McCauley View Post
This is true, however you cant lose real estate just because you forgot a password.
Also, refer to the "property rights" note.
Globally, you can lose your real estate at no fault of your own through war and politics. In the US if you're "found" to have generated funds through illicit means your assets are seized. It can be difficult to find info on nation-state human rights violations, but Argentina has forcibly seized their citizens properties on numerous occasions. Bitcoin solves properties rights with blockchain, you can program bitcoin with the title to your property so that ownership is publicly verifiable. That title only needs to be a satoshi worth too, so you're talking about like a penny in monetary value, but also the title to your home. In the US the biggest lobbying groups are in real estate, so there is massive opposition to progress developing with that regard.
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  #49  
Old 09-13-2020, 8:35 PM
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I'm curious to see what the price will be in November and next April.
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  #50  
Old 09-28-2020, 10:47 AM
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I enjoy playing with Bitcoin and Crypto. Doing this has helped me gain confidence with computer tech. I started in 2013 with 500.00. It didn't make me rich but I did get a trip to Florida to see my dad out of it and a whole lot of schooling in computer tech. There is so much to learn. In 2017 it was hard to lose and then the bear market hit.
Today, there are new ideas in Crypto, new ways to use smart contracts in business and in finance. One of the hottest assets right now, is Yearn Finance or YFI. I put 100.00 into that and we will see where it goes.
Tezo's earns 4.5% in TEZ or XTZ on Coinbase.

Since FIAT is not backed by gold and is only worth something because we all agree that it does and yes it is backed by the U.S. Government, then Crypto is similar in that we agree it is worth something and it is backed by the billions of dollars that are invested in it.

Can it "poof" disappear in a flash, perhaps. Will it? Probably not any time soon.

Walletinvestor.com gives "fortune" readings for various cryptocurrencies.

Last edited by Skybot; 09-28-2020 at 10:48 AM.. Reason: New thought
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  #51  
Old 10-15-2020, 7:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Skybot View Post
I enjoy playing with Bitcoin and Crypto. Doing this has helped me gain confidence with computer tech. I started in 2013 with 500.00. It didn't make me rich but I did get a trip to Florida to see my dad out of it and a whole lot of schooling in computer tech. There is so much to learn. In 2017 it was hard to lose and then the bear market hit.
Today, there are new ideas in Crypto, new ways to use smart contracts in business and in finance. One of the hottest assets right now, is Yearn Finance or YFI. I put 100.00 into that and we will see where it goes.
Tezo's earns 4.5% in TEZ or XTZ on Coinbase.

Since FIAT is not backed by gold and is only worth something because we all agree that it does and yes it is backed by the U.S. Government, then Crypto is similar in that we agree it is worth something and it is backed by the billions of dollars that are invested in it.

Can it "poof" disappear in a flash, perhaps. Will it? Probably not any time soon.

Walletinvestor.com gives "fortune" readings for various cryptocurrencies.
Thanks for sharing your experience, the trip to Florida is a cool story.

USD fiat is still the reserve currency of the world. It's the petro dollar enforced by military power and controlled by the 'you know who's'. That's all subject to change. There's no reason for two non-US countries to need USD to exchange goods when neither of them have any influence on the monetary value of the USD. It's a good reason for them to use a non-sovereign asset as a unit of exchange.

Bitcoin in particular is a proof of work blockchain with a progressively intensive production cost - setting the bottom on value - derived from a clear monetary policy. Can it poof disappear? No, the blockchain will persist for eternity. The danger is in if it loses security; mining being centralized to 51% attacks, or wallets encryption breaking. Then it wouldn't make sense to use the bitcoin network because it's not safe, but it will still be there.

MicroStrategy, Square, Stone Bridge... The list is going to grow, Bitcoin is an ETF, it's a store of value, it's an excellent unit of collateral for loans. Interest accounts is a big thing right now - I'm not interested. As far as other applications, unstoppable domains is an interesting project that creates a censorship resistant website on ethereum, it also acts as a human-readable public banking account number for pretty much any coin, it's also a mailing service. I'm not sure what's happening with smart contracts or connecting off-chain data, I think those tokens will ultimately be purchased at the time of use with stable coins.
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  #52  
Old 10-15-2020, 7:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdm0926 View Post
I'm curious to see what the price will be in November and next April.
November election?
What's in April?

Short term predictions are hard. Long term predictions are much easier.
On a 10 year time horizon, we're going to see two more halving and be two years into the latter; globally we'll likely see more wars, economic crisis, federal stimulus, negative interest rates, higher taxes, more corporate fraud, etc.

We could be six figures next year, I can't imagine it won't be six figures in a decade.
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  #53  
Old 10-15-2020, 8:07 PM
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You don't have to convince me about Crypto. I love learning about Crypto. I am not quite smart enough to be able go farther than simply investing. Perhaps, I could learn more if I had training and time. When I said poof it could disappear, I didn't mean the blockchain, I meant the value of the particular blockchain of investment.

I think that people think of Crypto as only a pyramid scheme, and in a sense it is....the more people who invest in an asset the more it is worth. However, people are using the Ethereum block chain to create contracts, I bought a piece of digital art and it is registered on the blockchain. I use it all the time as my background on Zoom and I love it and I own it, because the blockchain says I do. As a matter of fact, I use it here. The image in real time actually has fire that moves, but either as gif or jpeg, I love it.

So, crypto is a store of value because we agree it is worth something and it can be used in business. I don't believe that the block chain will ever stop, but it may morph as new technology is developed.

I am rambling, and I love the topic and I love learning about it, and I am not a techie at all, but I can learn!
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  #54  
Old 10-16-2020, 10:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by easyrider123 View Post
November election?
What's in April?

Short term predictions are hard. Long term predictions are much easier.
On a 10 year time horizon, we're going to see two more halving and be two years into the latter; globally we'll likely see more wars, economic crisis, federal stimulus, negative interest rates, higher taxes, more corporate fraud, etc.

We could be six figures next year, I can't imagine it won't be six figures in a decade.
Yes - November election.

April - We should be in the middle of a bull run. Plan B S2F model.
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  #55  
Old 10-17-2020, 11:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdm0926 View Post
Yes - November election.

April - We should be in the middle of a bull run. Plan B S2F model.
Ah, the red dots.
Adding my thoughts for general discussion and everyone else reading...

S2F: stock is the amount in circulation, flow is the amount entering circulation. Bitcoin is on a fixed schedule that becomes increasingly rare and it has a finite maximum supply which is known. Think the amount of Gold that has already been mined and is in circulation compared to Gold that is in the ground being mined each year, with the total supply being unknown. Bitcoin is programmed to be more rare than gold.

I think there are some serious flaws in using Plan B's S2F as a model to predict future pricing. While it is of course an accurate chart depicting Bitcoin price history, past does not guarantee future.

The model itself doesn't suggest a particular month for gains, rather just a general time frame, 12-18months after halving have historically trended up but anytime in the cycle makes it accurate.

His model suggests more than $5 Trillion dollars will enter the market this cycle, largely because it is a proportional uptrend by percentage gain to past halving.
A 25x on the current market cap requires $4.8T, that's an insane amount of money, whereas a 25x from $100M is only $2.5B, an infinitely smaller requirement.

Now, there's definitely macro trends that have not yet happened that are beginning to happen which can track S2F. Although to consider the next phase to hold true as well is absolutely mind-melting.

The macro trends being all private and public companies having an allocation, asset management firms, endowments, retirement accounts, investable gold sell-offs, on-going QE inflating investable money supply... Then increasing allocations, next layer payment options, pegging national currencies to BTC.

Central Bank Digital Currencies alone is a massive opportunity even if it doesn't peg to BTC as the loss of privacy and security is very concerning. If you have the option to be fully censored or not censored at all, I think a lot of people would prefer the latter..

Although to my initial point, these are all NEW events that are required and I don't think that stock to flow/scarcity is the REASON they happen, I think they happen because Bitcoin is simply superior. More importantly, the capital requirements to match percentage gains isn't a fair growth comparison and I don't think it's even possible without unfathomable amounts of QE and very poor federal monetary policy.

I'm definitely a Bull, I'm just not Plan B Bull.
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  #56  
Old 10-17-2020, 11:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Skybot View Post
You don't have to convince me about Crypto. I love learning about Crypto. I am not quite smart enough to be able go farther than simply investing. Perhaps, I could learn more if I had training and time. When I said poof it could disappear, I didn't mean the blockchain, I meant the value of the particular blockchain of investment.

I think that people think of Crypto as only a pyramid scheme, and in a sense it is....the more people who invest in an asset the more it is worth. However, people are using the Ethereum block chain to create contracts, I bought a piece of digital art and it is registered on the blockchain. I use it all the time as my background on Zoom and I love it and I own it, because the blockchain says I do. As a matter of fact, I use it here. The image in real time actually has fire that moves, but either as gif or jpeg, I love it.

So, crypto is a store of value because we agree it is worth something and it can be used in business. I don't believe that the block chain will ever stop, but it may morph as new technology is developed.

I am rambling, and I love the topic and I love learning about it, and I am not a techie at all, but I can learn!
I greatly appreciate your contribution to this thread, my response is aimed to be general for everyone reading it and to add clarity, i.e. the blockchain disappearing.

Right, that's the network effect, like the number of facebook users determines the value of it's social network.

I've heard of other digital objects like the art you mentioned, and even physical objects on the blockchain, Dan Morehead and State Street have talked about this. I need to learn more about it, it does sound very interesting to me.

In other news, Filecoin reached main net today. It's marketing itself as a decentralized file storage system. This would be like Google Cloud if Google never has access to your data. It also runs on ethereum (as does Unstoppable Domains) Something like this is necessary for a decentralized web, although supply is highly centralized...
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  #57  
Old 10-17-2020, 12:24 PM
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You have to believe that bitcoin has value...and I donít. Itís backed by nothing and non insured. If you want to do it, donít mix it with your actual money or bank on it for anything other than fun money. If people want to actually give you items of value for it - take them and run...the fools
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  #58  
Old 10-17-2020, 12:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by easyrider123 View Post
I greatly appreciate your contribution to this thread, my response is aimed to be general for everyone reading it and to add clarity, i.e. the blockchain disappearing.

Right, that's the network effect, like the number of facebook users determines the value of it's social network.

I've heard of other digital objects like the art you mentioned, and even physical objects on the blockchain, Dan Morehead and State Street have talked about this. I need to learn more about it, it does sound very interesting to me.

In other news, Filecoin reached main net today. It's marketing itself as a decentralized file storage system. This would be like Google Cloud if Google never has access to your data. It also runs on ethereum (as does Unstoppable Domains) Something like this is necessary for a decentralized web, although supply is highly centralized...
Makersplace.com is where you can check out some digital art. Some of these people are talented with vision and they create some beautiful pieces of art. I have fun checking into the site from time to time to see what these people have done. You can purchase it with Ethereum, some artists take fiat.
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  #59  
Old 10-17-2020, 1:08 PM
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Originally Posted by FISHNFRANK View Post
You have to believe that bitcoin has value...and I donít. Itís backed by nothing and non insured. If you want to do it, donít mix it with your actual money or bank on it for anything other than fun money. If people want to actually give you items of value for it - take them and run...the fools
You clearly do not understand the concept of fractional reserve banking, how the FDIC works and seemingly what units of exchange are.
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  #60  
Old 10-17-2020, 1:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Skybot View Post
Makersplace.com is where you can check out some digital art. Some of these people are talented with vision and they create some beautiful pieces of art. I have fun checking into the site from time to time to see what these people have done. You can purchase it with Ethereum, some artists take fiat.
In essence, this is like owning the original art piece.
The thing is, I don't care if I have the 5 billionth copy, it still looks the same.
This is sentimental value, which generally becomes valuable if the creator becomes famous, better yet - dead and famous.
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  #61  
Old 10-17-2020, 1:18 PM
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You clearly do not understand the concept of fractional reserve banking, how the FDIC works and seemingly what units of exchange are.

...or blockchain.

Once one begins to wrap their head around the near-miracle of blockchain software *and what it takes to create it*, then one can begin to appreciate the value of bitcoin.

Add to that the incessant printing of our fiat currency... and one begins to wonder which has the greater value behind it?

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  #62  
Old 10-17-2020, 1:41 PM
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Originally Posted by 200Apples View Post
...or blockchain.

Once one begins to wrap their head around the near-miracle of blockchain software *and what it takes to create it*, then one can begin to appreciate the value of bitcoin.

Add to that the incessant printing of our fiat currency... and one begins to wonder which has the greater value behind it?

and more importantly, *proof of work*, *decentralized* blockchain.
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  #63  
Old 10-17-2020, 3:51 PM
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Quote:
public companies having an allocation
Bingo

I now see companies pouring in millions from their cash reserves into this space. Financial advisors from these big companies would oppose this if there was no value.
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  #64  
Old 10-17-2020, 4:59 PM
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Originally Posted by jdm0926 View Post
Bingo

I now see companies pouring in millions from their cash reserves into this space. Financial advisors from these big companies would oppose this if there was no value.
When Jamie Dimon (CEO JP Morgan Chase) was saying that bitcoin is a fraud and he would fire anyone caught buying it, he himself was one of the biggest buyers in the market.

When you're influential like him, yeah of course talk smack, try to drive down the price so you can average in at a better rate.

Once you've fully established your position, then you can make an announcement why other people should buy it.

Everyone is looking at this right now, no one is going to say they are until they're already in.
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  #65  
Old 10-18-2020, 11:50 PM
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EasyRider,

What do you know about Yearn Finance, YFI. Do you think it is going anywhere, now that the founder has left the project?
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  #66  
Old 10-19-2020, 10:41 PM
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EasyRider,

What do you know about Yearn Finance, YFI. Do you think it is going anywhere, now that the founder has left the project?
DeFi hasn't captured my interest yet, pun intended. I don't pay much attention to it at all, there's very real risk involved. I REALLY like Bitcoin; I'm optimistic that Ethereum and it's projects can become something useful in daily life, e.g. creating a decentralized web, e.g. making securities liquid in peer to peer exchange.

Everyone's trying to earn interest right now, and aside from trading there's not much value being created. When trading becomes a minority use case, I'll be paying much more attention.

My hypothesis is that if/when the utility becomes apart of standard life, many tokens/tools will be purchased at the time of need - at stable prices, like standard subscription software business models presently.

I know that doesn't answer your question directly, but I believe it communicates my current apathy.
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  #67  
Old 10-21-2020, 8:20 AM
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This morning:
PayPal with over 300 million active users worldwide will allow customers to buy and shop online with merchants who accept Bitcoin.

The price of Bitcoin rips past its 2 year high gaining 15% in a day, now trading at $12,728, sitting at 61.1% dominance on the total market.

I'm not totally sure yet how they will be doing this.
'What would make sense to me' is they will act as a custodian of all Bitcoin on their platform; meaning when you buy Bitcoin with PayPal, it's like buying gold certificates, you don't actually take possession of the gold, you just get a certificate, then when shopping they simply move that certificate from your account to the merchant account.

Some advantages that come to mind:
1) PayPal is still a relevant service
2) your customers are not going to accidentally lose their Bitcoin
3) transaction volume remains low on lightning, not congesting bitcoin network
4) capital gains on a cash producing reserves asset

The thing everyone needs to be aware of is:
Not your keys, not your coins. PayPal is an intermediary.

Last edited by easyrider123; 10-21-2020 at 3:07 PM.. Reason: Edit, the time is 4:06, the price has increased to $13,184
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  #68  
Old 10-21-2020, 10:41 AM
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In more news today:
The Central Bank of the Bahamas launches their own blockchain-based central bank digital currency, called "Sand Dollars". This is a digital currency / unit of exchange, regulated by the nations central bank, and integrated with the island nations payment networks.

The Bahamas has a population of about 385k.
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  #69  
Old 10-26-2020, 11:49 AM
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arttel arttel is offline
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I think that there is not so much information about Bitcoin because people there already knows everything about this cryptocurrency.
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