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  #41  
Old 11-22-2020, 3:41 PM
edgerly779 edgerly779 is offline
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I have not heard of one. Waiting for test case. I just helped my bro order an ar 15 pistol lower from psa. 310 bucks shipped to Houston to his ffl.
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  #42  
Old 11-22-2020, 4:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quiet View Post
And this is where CA DOJ needs to be sued, so step up and be a test case.

Because, they say/enforce, assemblying parts onto a SSE2 to be considered "manufacturing" a new unsafe handgun.
I don't really have that kind of bandwidth in my life.
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  #43  
Old 11-22-2020, 6:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gabe123 View Post
4. Do this at your own risk. We thank you for being the test case

People who are well versed in this do not say for certain either way. Not certain YES, not certain NO. I think they want to say YES, it is legal, but dare not for liability reasons. But IMHO, the left will get you if they want to get you, no matter if there is, or is not a law in the book. After all, they stole Presidential elections with much less.

Let us know how that work out for you.

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  #44  
Old 11-22-2020, 6:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by foxtrotuniformlima View Post
Has anyone been charged for doing such things?
Yes. I have had several clients who were. Though they had bigger problems (other more serious charges). Didn't need to litigate the PC 32000.
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  #45  
Old 11-22-2020, 6:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quiet View Post
And this is where CA DOJ needs to be sued, so step up and be a test case.

Because, they say/enforce, assemblying parts onto a SSE2 to be considered "manufacturing" a new unsafe handgun.
I say the OP, Sawateam, should slap a semi auto upper on his SSE2 lower and take it for the team.

I promise I'll throw in $20 for his legal defense Gofundme.

.
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  #46  
Old 11-22-2020, 6:50 PM
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Originally Posted by ohsmily View Post
Yes. I have had several clients who were. Though they had bigger problems (other more serious charges). Didn't need to litigate the PC 32000.
We’re their problems firearms related that led to the discovery of such?
Any comment on why the PC 32000 didn’t have to be litigated?
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  #47  
Old 11-23-2020, 9:44 AM
Sawateam Sawateam is offline
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Originally Posted by AregularGuy View Post
So what was the point of this thread? You laid out the questions/statements then wait for people to give you the counter argument. Yet you pm and say, "No, you're wrong because someone very respectable said it was ok". Are you asking rhetorically or do you actually want to hear about the potential legalities of the topic?
I PM'd you because I didn't want to name an FFL in this open forum. Get it?
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  #48  
Old 11-23-2020, 9:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Sawateam View Post
I PM'd you because I didn't want to name an FFL in this open forum. Get it?
The very last source you should trust for legal advice that may impact your freedom and gun rights for life, is a FFL.

You have now had moderators, senior LE investigators, and real criminal defense lawyers in this thread. None of them will be influenced by what some rando FFL had to say.
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  #49  
Old 11-23-2020, 10:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Sawateam View Post
I PM'd you because I didn't want to name an FFL in this open forum. Get it?
Yes. I get it. Which is why I didn't even mention "FFL" in my question to you.
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  #50  
Old 11-23-2020, 11:26 AM
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https://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/...&postcount=112

Quote:
Originally Posted by bwiese View Post
Hi SkyHawk...

Very open question/defendable especially if the gun transitioned thru single-shot status to semiauto and was 'virgin nonsemaiuto' to begin with.

AB1964 legislation changed wording only in minor ways, effectively restricting the single shot exemption to "guns that were never semiauto".
This does not mean various unused design features but only if actual semiauto status (incl factory testing) existed.

Note that SSE transition to semiauto was done all the way up to 2014.

The process was even inspected by DOJ, field agents are available for testimony as such, and shop inventory was approved for sale. Boatloads of SSE transactions went on in front of DOJ's noses (ie. sales during inspections/audits) for several years.

It was so legal that they changed the law. And only slightly.

They were thinking of blocking all the Sig and 1911 off-Roster variants. They really weren't thinking of virgin receiver buildups.

THE LAW DID NOT CHANGE IN THIS RESPECT (single shot/bolt action etc to semiauto). It only addded, essentially, the "virgin nonsemiauto" status requirement.

Additionally, DOJ writings from a Deputy AG indicated it was quite legal to buy a Rostered Glock and send it to Smyrna to put a left handed safety on it. That itself alone transitions the gun outside of Rostered status, just like using aftermarket magazines (say, CMC) in your Rostered Springfield 1911. [I specifically note that guns are tested/rostered with supplied magazines as exemplar, not "any magazine that fits". Changing parts in a magazines actually should make a gun fall off the Roster now with DOJ's new interpretation of "minor changes = new gun to certify with microstamping."]

The DOJ has a terrible burden because they do not have a 'priority list' of substitutable [or not] parts. For them to hold a position that a gun cannot be modified to another legally possessable state, this would preclude (1) generic replacement/repair parts, (2) generic magazines. The law has no exclusion for these.

Additionally, the single shot exclusion in PC 32100b - only slightly tweaked by AB1964 - still has the "32000PC shall not apply to...".

[When I posted the 'recipe' in summer of 2011 here on CGN, it was read by various parties, including ATF legal. Word got back to me thru 'a person in the room' that ATF - who actually does understand CA law - even praised the accuracy.]

I submit that DOJ will not bust somebody with the above for at best a misdemeanor Roster violation esp given the murkiness. AW violations? sure. All busts of stuff involving AR pistols seem to involve AW issues only.

This otherwise has the potential to get into "OK so that violates the Roster, you mean we can't use ordinary generic replacement wear & tear parts or generic magazines?" Hello Magnusson-Moss warranty act, etc. [Do you lose your GMC warranty and & emissions compliance for using a Fram oil filter or generic battery terminal? - rough equivalent]

So no, you can't SSE a gun that was already a semiauto (like we did 2007-2013 or whenever AB1964 kicked in.

But if you build up a gun, in non-AW form, from a virgin frame into a true single shot configuration - and do the serialization drama etc. - then convert to semiauto nonAW form you've moved thru a neutral zone to legal possession.
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  #51  
Old 11-23-2020, 12:25 PM
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Originally Posted by lastinline View Post
Any comment on why the PC 32000 didn’t have to be litigated?
I'm not the one the OP for this question, but can tell you with great certainty that "having bigger problems" means his clients were charged with a lot of serious stuff and the weapons charges were just the "add-ons" to set up bargaining positions for plea deal(s).

Those charges will not be litigated, they are only used as a leverage.
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  #52  
Old 11-23-2020, 12:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by foxtrotuniformlima View Post
Has anyone been charged for doing such things?
Charged? Likely (a few posts above there is a statement about such charges). Litigated and convicted (or acquitted)? No.

DOJ doesn't want to litigate this any more than they want to litigate anything related to the bullet buttons in their (incorrect) interpretation of the AW statute. Just remember, as Rick pointed out, your "this isn't legal" doesn't do anything to defend you against being charged and prosecuted. Doesn't mean the DOJ will win, but they have the resources, time and their butt is not on the line. Yours would be.

What DOJ really wants is the "quiet compliance," the same way Newsome wants you to comply with the "mask mandates" or curfews. They don't want to deal with the bunch of "anti social persons who think their personal freedoms override the collective good" trying to prevent them from doing what they believe is the best for the collective society. So, they just want you to shut up and go along with the program, don't question their authority or wisdom.
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  #53  
Old 11-23-2020, 1:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sawateam View Post
If a California gun manufacturer/FFL wants to sell you an AR Pistol...
Is said manufacturer/FFL a licensed manufacturer by the federal government? If not then the roster does not apply and they can do whatever they want as long as it has a mag lock.
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  #54  
Old 11-23-2020, 3:54 PM
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Never mind. I was horribly late to the party.

Last edited by Pupulepeter; 11-23-2020 at 3:59 PM..
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  #55  
Old 11-24-2020, 6:11 AM
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Originally Posted by AregularGuy View Post
Yes. I get it. Which is why I didn't even mention "FFL" in my question to you.
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  #56  
Old 11-24-2020, 8:09 AM
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  #57  
Old 11-24-2020, 9:49 AM
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Following.
This subject is so mixed up as of lately.
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