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  #1  
Old 06-17-2020, 7:15 PM
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Default Firearm transfer question for new law (PPT limit)

So i am wondering, what ive been told is that we can sell/transfer up to 50 firearms or 6 transactions or less? Is this the case? Is there a thread that discusses this anywhere in depth?

I have sold 5 so far and did a ppt trade, and got a delay which the 30th day will be tomorrow, what my ffl has told me that on the 30th day he can release it if no definitive answer was given.

I thought the limit was 6 or less per year or 50 if done in multiples per transaction?

What happens if i accidently go over by one?
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  #2  
Old 06-17-2020, 8:13 PM
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Penal Code section 16730:

(a) As used in Section 31815 and in Division 6 (commencing with Section 26500) of Title 4, “infrequent” means both of the following are true:

(1) The person conducts less than six transactions per calendar year.

(2) The person sells, leases, or transfers no more than 50 total firearms per calendar year.

(b) As used in this section, “transaction” means a single sale, lease, or transfer of any number of firearms.
Notice that it says "both". So you must be both to be "infrequent". If you six or more transactions per year OR you do more than 50 firearms in a year, then you're not infrequent.

Penal Code section 26500 says, "No person shall sell, lease, or transfer firearms unless the person has been issued a license . . ." However, Penal Code section 26520 says, "Section 26500 does not apply to the infrequent sale, lease, or transfer of firearms." So if you exceed 5 transactions or 50 firearms in a calendar year, you're selling firearms without a license, and that's potentially a misdemeanor. What are the chances that someone cares about exceeding the limit slightly? I don't know. What are the chances that someone cares if a law enforcement officer exceeds the limit by selling 100s of guns in PPT? Someone will definitely care.
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Old 07-02-2020, 3:12 PM
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Is there a way to look up how many sale/ trades we have made in a year Incase we forgot or have misplaced the dros sheets
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Old 07-02-2020, 8:30 PM
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Default How many guns can you sell in a calander year?

I'm a collector and an enthusiast and I getting rid of several guns I acquired over the years. I have heard I am limit to 10 PPT sales a year. I asked a few FFL and they said they never heard of such a thing. Does anyone know if there is a limit for a fact not just rumors or hear say?

// CA Law question, merged into existing thread.
//
// Librarian

Last edited by Librarian; 07-02-2020 at 8:35 PM..
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  #5  
Old 07-09-2020, 2:48 PM
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So if a resident of CA owns 100 guns he needs 20 years life left to sell them or find people that will buy more than one at a time?

What happens if he has a medical financial emergency and needs to sell?

What happens if he dies and his wife/kids need to sell?

Do they need to sell to a licensed dealer at pennies on the dollar to get him to accept more than one gun in a transaction?
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Old 07-09-2020, 5:29 PM
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In your example above, should be fine. You can inform (heads up) DOJ of selling more than the limit because of those situations. Past posts have examples of members selling entire collection due to health concerns and none reported being contacted by DOJ.
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Old 07-09-2020, 10:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Register View Post
So if a resident of CA owns 100 guns he needs 20 years life left to sell them or find people that will buy more than one at a time?

What happens if he dies and his wife/kids need to sell?
Minimum of 2 years.
^ One transaction of 50 firearms for 2 years.

The exectuor of the deceased's estate can sell all of the fireaarms within 60 days of acquiring the firearms. Any of the firearms transferred within the 60 day time period do not count towards the limit. [PC 26515]
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Old 07-26-2020, 9:15 AM
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OK ,SO I went down the rabbit hole and spent a hour of my life digging into the penal code and found a couple of things

26525: (a) Section 26500 does not apply to the sale, lease, or transfer of used firearms, other than handguns, at gun shows or events, as specified in Article 1 (commencing with Section 26700) and Article 2 (commencing with Section 26800) of Chapter 2, by a person other than a licensee or dealer, provided the person has a valid federal firearms license and a current certificate of eligibility issued by the Department of Justice, as specified in Section 26710, and provided all the sales, leases, or transfers fully comply with Section 27545. However, the person shall not engage in the sale, lease, or transfer of used firearms other than handguns at more than 12 gun shows or events in any calendar year and shall not sell, lease, or transfer more than 15 used firearms other than handguns at any single gun show or event. In no event shall the person sell more than 75 used firearms other than handguns in any calendar year.



26585: Section 26500 does not apply to the delivery of an unloaded firearm that is a curio or relic, as defined in Section 478.11 of Title 27 of the Code of Federal Regulations, if the delivery satisfies all of the following conditions:

(a) It is made by a person licensed as a collector pursuant to Chapter 44 (commencing with Section 921) of Title 18 of the United States Code and the regulations issued pursuant thereto.

(b) It is made by a person with a current certificate of eligibility issued pursuant to Section 26710.

(c) It is made to a dealer.

Now the way I read this is if you have a C&R / COE then there is no limit as long as you transfer it through a dealer. It doesn't define that it needs to be a dealer in CA , just a dealer so sell something on gunbroker and it needs to be shipped to a 01 FFL ?
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Old 07-26-2020, 11:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by microwaveguy View Post
OK ,SO I went down the rabbit hole and spent a hour of my life digging into the penal code and found a couple of things

...

Now the way I read this is if you have a C&R / COE then there is no limit as long as you transfer it through a dealer. It doesn't define that it needs to be a dealer in CA , just a dealer so sell something on gunbroker and it needs to be shipped to a 01 FFL ?
Good; more people need to read the actual Penal Code.

If you send the gun(s) to an FFL out of CA, how is CA going to know about that sale? One might run afoul of the BATF opinion of being in the business without a license, but that is not 'quantitative' - no official numeric limit.
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  #10  
Old 07-30-2020, 9:01 PM
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This thread is really illuminating. I have some questions.

I'm about to max my PPT limit, so I'd rather not process anymore PPTs.
  1. Can I just leave a (CA-roster or C&R) firearm with an FFL and have them process it like a regular "Dealer" sale?
  2. I have an FFL03/COE, am I exempt from delivering any number of firearms to a licensed dealer for them to process? Do the firearms have to be C&R or can they also be CA-roster approved?
  3. I have sold a C&R handgun as a PPT, but since I have an FFL03/COE, this doesn't count towards the "infrequent" transaction guideline, correct?
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  #11  
Old 07-31-2020, 2:05 PM
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From my research, it looks like an owner can deliver a C&R or CA-roster firearm to a dealer. And the dealer can process it as a regular "Dealer Handgun Sale". All that gets recorded is the original owner's driver's license in the FFL bound book. That should circumvent the 5 PPT max. Also of note, Penal Code 26585 states an FFL03/COE holder is exempt from a limit when transferring C&R handguns.
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Old 07-31-2020, 3:57 PM
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Going this route, who will pay for FFL's transfer fee on top of Dros? I don't think any FFL gonna do it for free.
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Old 07-31-2020, 4:00 PM
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FFL can charge Transfer fee $50 and up, which is more than PPT fee.
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Old 08-01-2020, 10:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Register View Post
So if a resident of CA owns 100 guns he needs 20 years life left to sell them or find people that will buy more than one at a time?

What happens if he has a medical financial emergency and needs to sell?

What happens if he dies and his wife/kids need to sell?

Do they need to sell to a licensed dealer at pennies on the dollar to get him to accept more than one gun in a transaction?

Five TRANSACTIONS, not guns. As noted, you can sell many guns in one transaction


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  #15  
Old 08-02-2020, 10:03 AM
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I just got off the phone with J&R sports supply in Livermore and talked to them about consignments. Basically they say some customers bring in 20+ guns for them to sell. And they process those as “private party transfers” even though the seller is not physically there for the transaction. Does that sound right? They also say this doesn’t count towards the “less than 6 infrequent” transactions for a private owner.
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Old 08-03-2020, 10:41 AM
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FYI: I confirmed on the phone with someone at the Bureau this morning that delivering a firearm directly to a licensed dealer does not count as a transaction. And they can process it like a regular transfer afterwards.
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Old 08-17-2020, 5:28 PM
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Sorry if this is covered in another thread. I'm assuming if you sell a gun out of state this doesn't go towards the 6 PPT limit a year? Then finally after the gun is sold out of state do I have to notify the cadoj that it is no longer in my possession?


Thanks!


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Old 08-17-2020, 5:31 PM
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Originally Posted by GunnEnvy View Post
Sorry if this is covered in another thread. I'm assuming if you sell a gun out of state this doesn't go towards the 6 PPT limit a year? Then finally after the gun is sold out of state do I have to notify the cadoj that it is no longer in my possession?


Thanks!


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5 transfer limit per year.

Does not go to transfer limit.
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Old 08-17-2020, 5:42 PM
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5 transfer limit per year.

Does not go to transfer limit.

Thanks ok so after reading the thread again 5 transfers a year is the limit.

Selling out of state does not go towards the limit.


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Old 08-17-2020, 7:16 PM
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You can also deliver to a dealer and it won't count.
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Old 08-19-2020, 5:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by antagony View Post
You can also deliver to a dealer and it won't count.

Hi can you clarify what you mean by this? If you mail to a dealer within California or outside, rather than meeting face to face at the FFL it won't count to your limit of transfers per year?


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Old 08-19-2020, 5:38 PM
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Hi can you clarify what you mean by this? If you mail to a dealer within California or outside, rather than meeting face to face at the FFL it won't count to your limit of transfers per year?


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https://www.shouselaw.com/ca/defense/penal-code/26500/

1.3. People and transactions exempt
Certain people, transactions, and firearms are exempt from prosecution under PC 26500. These include (but are not limited to):

People acting under the operation of law or a court order;19
Law enforcement officers;20
People disposing of guns they’ve inherited;21
The infrequent transfer of personal firearms, including at gun shows;22
Transfers to and from federally authorized firearms importers, dealers and manufacturers;23
The temporary loan of firearms at target facilities;24
Use of unloaded firearms used as props in movies, television shows and other entertainment productions;25
Delivery of unloaded curios or relics to licensed collectors of antique firearms;26 and
Loan of a firearm to a gunsmith for repair.27
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Old 08-19-2020, 8:41 PM
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What do they mean by “infrequent” transfer of personal firearms? Is this reffering to a PPT or more on the lines of a loan?
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Old 08-19-2020, 8:47 PM
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good info !
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Old 08-19-2020, 9:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elgindy25 View Post
What do they mean by “infrequent” transfer of personal firearms? Is this reffering to a PPT or more on the lines of a loan?
From private party to private party (non-dealers)
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Old 08-19-2020, 9:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by antagony View Post
From private party to private party (non-dealers)
So
If you happen to sell like 1 or 2 over in the course of a year, then its still ok? Its kinda confusing, one thing says limit of 5 transactions or 50, but then the above says “infrequent” is ok? Who determines what is considered infrequent?
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Old 08-19-2020, 9:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elgindy25 View Post
So
If you happen to sell like 1 or 2 over in the course of a year, then its still ok? Its kinda confusing, one thing says limit of 5 transactions or 50, but then the above says “infrequent” is ok? Who determines what is considered infrequent?

(a) As used in Section 31815 and in Division 6 (commencing with Section 26500) of Title 4, “infrequent” means both of the following are true:
(1) The person conducts less than six transactions per calendar year.
(2) The person sells, leases, or transfers no more than 50 total firearms per calendar year.
(b) As used in this section, “transaction” means a single sale, lease, or transfer of any number of firearms.
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Old 08-19-2020, 9:58 PM
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Curious if anyone has been denied after going over the transfer limit?
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Old 08-19-2020, 10:07 PM
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I have never heard of that yet, great FFL question. I did ask a few and they also said they've never heard of it, and are sure people go way over 6...
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Old 08-30-2020, 3:50 PM
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So do any of you know anyone who has sold or done more then 5 transactions within this year, and if so has anything happened? Any letters from DOJ etc? I imagine some
Have gone over by like 1-3 and didnt know about the transfer limit change. I mean to be fair, not like any FFLs ever post any notice about there being a limit, so unless one actively follows the laws that come and go, many might do
More transfers and have never known about the changes.

Having worked at a range for awhile, i know
Many people get there information from whatever ffl they go to more then anyone or anywhere else.

Not everyone knows of calguns for one.
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Old 08-30-2020, 3:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elgindy25 View Post
So do any of you know anyone who has sold or done more then 5 transactions within this year, and if so has anything happened?
We have had several members here state they have gone over the limit of 5 transactions with no problems.
Some of those posts were written this year, but not sure when the transactions actually occurred.

Some were unaware, others just did it since there seem to be no repercussions unless you overdo it like a couple police officers for blatantly overdoing it.
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Old 08-31-2020, 2:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by antagony View Post
I have never heard of that yet, great FFL question. I did ask a few and they also said they've never heard of it, and are sure people go way over 6...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elgindy25 View Post
So do any of you know anyone who has sold or done more then 5 transactions within this year, and if so has anything happened? Any letters from DOJ etc? I imagine some
Have gone over by like 1-3 and didnt know about the transfer limit change.


My friend sold 6 times in a year once, by mistake.....no issues came up.

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Old 09-01-2020, 1:27 AM
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I have some questions, if anyone cares to offer their 2 cents.

1)I had a dealer hold a bunch of firearms for me, and I ended up selling him 2 of them. Does that count as one PPT ? I think I signed something to him to hold them, then I DROS'd them back to me minus the 2 he kept.
2) the transfer I did to the dealer took place in 2019. Am I understanding correctly that I can do 5 transfers per calendar year, meaning once 2020 started I got a clean slate and can do 5 PPTs this year, despite having done one in Oct. 2019? I was thinking it was a 12 month period and the transfer in October of 2019 would roll off my record in October 2020, kinda like a traffic ticket. I think I'm wrong, however, which would be great.
3) I have an 03 FFL/C&R license, and bought some Mosins ages ago. I'm confused about how to sell those. If I sell them to a private party via normal dealer transfer, will that count against my PPT limit of 5 per calendar year?
4) Can I sell those Mosins Out of State via gunbroker without running afoul of CA law? Will those count towards my PPT limit? I've never tried to use it before, figured it's at least worth asking if it's possible.

Thank you in advance!
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Old 09-01-2020, 6:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnny1290 View Post
I have some questions, if anyone cares to offer their 2 cents.

1)I had a dealer hold a bunch of firearms for me, and I ended up selling him 2 of them. Does that count as one PPT ? I think I signed something to him to hold them, then I DROS'd them back to me minus the 2 he kept.
2) the transfer I did to the dealer took place in 2019. Am I understanding correctly that I can do 5 transfers per calendar year, meaning once 2020 started I got a clean slate and can do 5 PPTs this year, despite having done one in Oct. 2019? I was thinking it was a 12 month period and the transfer in October of 2019 would roll off my record in October 2020, kinda like a traffic ticket. I think I'm wrong, however, which would be great.
3) I have an 03 FFL/C&R license, and bought some Mosins ages ago. I'm confused about how to sell those. If I sell them to a private party via normal dealer transfer, will that count against my PPT limit of 5 per calendar year?
4) Can I sell those Mosins Out of State via gunbroker without running afoul of CA law? Will those count towards my PPT limit? I've never tried to use it before, figured it's at least worth asking if it's possible.

Thank you in advance!

1. Doesn’t count as a PPT, that’s directly to a dealer which is exempt. Scroll up for the PC.

2. Calendar year so that 2019 doesn’t count.

3. C&R is exempt when it goes to a dealer first, so give it to your dealer as inventory and he enters it into his bound book from an FFL03. Then he can process it as a C&R sale to anyone.

4. Yes and no doesn’t count.
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Old 09-05-2020, 6:12 AM
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please help me calrify:

1. This year I had 4 PPT transactions
2. This year I sold a long gun and shipped it directly to the buyer's FFL in California

#2 doesn't count towards my limit of 5 transfers so I can PPT 1 more?

I can do more #2s if I wish?

Thanks!


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  #36  
Old 09-05-2020, 12:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GunnEnvy View Post
please help me calrify:

1. This year I had 4 PPT transactions
2. This year I sold a long gun and shipped it directly to the buyer's FFL in California

#2 doesn't count towards my limit of 5 transfers so I can PPT 1 more?

I can do more #2s if I wish?

Thanks!


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#2 is direct to a dealer, same as a consignment basically. You just go into their FFL bound book. Doesn't count as a PPT. This is what 3 of my FFLs have told me. You can and should verify that with your FFL too.
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Old 09-05-2020, 5:04 PM
rcpilot_971 rcpilot_971 is offline
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Does transferring to a family member count agents your 5 drons
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  #38  
Old 09-06-2020, 11:49 AM
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Default Firearm transfer question for new law (PPT limit)

Quote:
Originally Posted by rcpilot_971 View Post
Does transferring to a family member count agents your 5 drons

It could be on the 26500 exempt list, did you try Googling it?


https://www.shouselaw.com/ca/defense...family-members
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Old 09-20-2020, 10:40 AM
MommaMia MommaMia is offline
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No one has answered the following:

If you aren't very organized and forgot how many PPTs you have done, is there a way to tell how many were carried out?
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Old 09-20-2020, 10:45 AM
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Originally Posted by MommaMia View Post
No one has answered the following:

If you aren't very organized and forgot how many PPTs you have done, is there a way to tell how many were carried out?

you can try calling the DOJ and ask them how many, I’ve done that and they never got back to me.
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