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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #1  
Old 03-09-2019, 5:22 AM
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Default No Manufactures have sued CA?!

I just heard and don't know if it's true that no gun manufacturer has joined in a lawsuit against CA for the roster requirements? Has this battle been just the consumer vs. government? If this is true I'm afraid we won't get any "roster relief" until a gun maker joins a lawsuit or starts one. I know I'm preaching to the choir but, imagine if cars met the legal requirements to be sold federally, but CA requires all fuel caps to be behind the license plate or can't be sold in CA (unless you own a dealership and decided to sell your personal vehicle). I'm fairly certain Ford, GM, Toyota, Audi, etc would sue CA.

So assuming it IS true, does anyone know of a manufacturer consider suing? We have got to be a large part of the consumer market enough to make them want our money.
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Old 03-09-2019, 6:04 AM
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Lol at the car comparison, you don't remember 49 state versions that didn't meet the CA emissions requirements?
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Old 03-09-2019, 6:24 AM
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Originally Posted by johnk518 View Post
I just heard and don't know if it's true that no gun manufacturer has joined in a lawsuit against CA for the roster requirements? Has this battle been just the consumer vs. government? If this is true I'm afraid we won't get any "roster relief" until a gun maker joins a lawsuit or starts one. I know I'm preaching to the choir but, imagine if cars met the legal requirements to be sold federally, but CA requires all fuel caps to be behind the license plate or can't be sold in CA (unless you own a dealership and decided to sell your personal vehicle). I'm fairly certain Ford, GM, Toyota, Audi, etc would sue CA.

So assuming it IS true, does anyone know of a manufacturer consider suing? We have got to be a large part of the consumer market enough to make them want our money.
The NSSF did in fact file a Roster lawsuit in California.

NSSF is the group that represents manufacturers and retailers. This lawsuit so far has been unsuccessful.
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Old 03-09-2019, 7:33 AM
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I’d like to see gun manufacturers refuse to sell firearms to state organizations that prohibit the same firearms for residents. You want a handgun roster? Fine, we will only allow LEO organizations to buy the same handguns/rifles that the residents of your state are allowed to purchase.
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Old 03-09-2019, 7:55 AM
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Glock, Ruger and S&W have supported the NSSF case.
More here, but it's a long thread:
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=812117
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Old 03-09-2019, 8:42 AM
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Originally Posted by SailorDan View Post
I’d like to see gun manufacturers refuse to sell firearms to state organizations that prohibit the same firearms for residents. You want a handgun roster? Fine, we will only allow LEO organizations to buy the same handguns/rifles that the residents of your state are allowed to purchase.
It certainly would say something if that happened, but no business is going to that and we know it. But if you think about it there cant be as many leo customers as civilian though so what have they got to loose? To me it just proves that the manufactures are not really on our side. I guess Ca is just that big of a market for them they don't want to loose the revenue I guess.
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Old 03-09-2019, 10:23 AM
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Originally Posted by ajb78 View Post
Lol at the car comparison, you don't remember 49 state versions that didn't meet the CA emissions requirements?
Lol. . .I do now. gotta love our state.
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Old 03-09-2019, 10:26 AM
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Originally Posted by ojisan View Post
Glock, Ruger and S&W have supported the NSSF case.
More here, but it's a long thread:
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=812117
Interestingly I heard a while ago, Bill Ruger happens to be the father of "10 rounds is enough". Don't know if it's true but. . . Thanks for the Thread, I got some reading to do.

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Originally Posted by SailorDan View Post
I’d like to see gun manufacturers refuse to sell firearms to state organizations that prohibit the same firearms for residents. You want a handgun roster? Fine, we will only allow LEO organizations to buy the same handguns/rifles that the residents of your state are allowed to purchase.
Yup. . .That's what I was hoping.
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Old 03-09-2019, 2:03 PM
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Originally Posted by SailorDan View Post
I’d like to see gun manufacturers refuse to sell firearms to state organizations that prohibit the same firearms for residents. You want a handgun roster? Fine, we will only allow LEO organizations to buy the same handguns/rifles that the residents of your state are allowed to purchase.
Yes, that would be great. And an integrity based policy to implement.

In this day and age of BIG business. Most firearms manufacturers are owned by HUGE Multi National Corps. And as such, don't give a crap what rights the peasants in any state do, or do not have.
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Old 03-09-2019, 2:41 PM
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Originally Posted by johnk518 View Post
Interestingly I heard a while ago, Bill Ruger happens to be the father of "10 rounds is enough". Don't know if it's true but. . . Thanks for the Thread, I got some reading to do.



Yup. . .That's what I was hoping.
Bill Ruger was a sellout, to protect his mini-14. He refused to sell mags over 10 rds to the public.

Ruger has yet to repent for his sins.

He did leave a million dollars to the NRA - for the Bill Ruger museum display.

S&W atoned for their errors, we took them back.

Ruger collaborated, and we are all acting like nothing happened. No money from me. Screw them.
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Old 03-09-2019, 4:14 PM
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Originally Posted by God Bless America View Post
Bill Ruger was a sellout, to protect his mini-14. He refused to sell mags over 10 rds to the public.

Ruger has yet to repent for his sins.

He did leave a million dollars to the NRA - for the Bill Ruger museum display.

S&W atoned for their errors, we took them back.

Ruger collaborated, and we are all acting like nothing happened. No money from me. Screw them.
Bill Ruger is dead and has been for a while. Who cares. Ruger as a company is not the same entity it was back then. They're publicly traded now, FFS. and have been building and selling AR-style rifles for quite some time now, and I'm pretty sure they come with 30-round mags (in free states). Most of Ruger's pistols are designed for, and include 10+ round mags. If that's not a turnaround, I'm not sure anything will be good enough for some people.

Also, how has S&W atoned? They're still putting locks in their revolver frames, right?
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Old 03-09-2019, 6:01 PM
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Originally Posted by pacrat View Post
Yes, that would be great. And an integrity based policy to implement.

In this day and age of BIG business. Most firearms manufacturers are owned by HUGE Multi National Corps. And as such, don't give a crap what rights the peasants in any state do, or do not have.
This is correct. Few firearms manufacturers will have the integrity of Ronnie Barrett, but there is a foreseeable tipping point where government regulations will have effectively reduced the market for firearms manufacturers to the point that they will need to do something if they want to continue making money from civilian gun sales.

The question is when will we reach that point.
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Old 03-09-2019, 6:39 PM
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I promise to buy one of every model if a manufacture successfully sues. In the long run Weapons will always be a necessity assuming history is anything to go by.
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Old 03-09-2019, 7:13 PM
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Originally Posted by SailorDan View Post
I’d like to see gun manufacturers refuse to sell firearms to state organizations that prohibit the same firearms for residents.
It’s a bit of a catch-22 for manufacturers. It’s not really effective at influencing California unless most or all manufacturers are in on it... and it’s not really effective at boosting sales/market share for a company IF most or all the manufacturers are in on it.

I think the “law enforcement only” ship has sailed, unfortunately.

Last edited by champu; 03-10-2019 at 5:47 PM.. Reason: Of/or typo correction
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Old 03-10-2019, 5:35 PM
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It’s a bit of a catch-22 for manufacturers. It’s not really effective at influencing California unless most or all manufacturers are in on it... and it’s not really effective at boosting sales/market share for a company IF most of all the manufacturers are in on it.



I think the “law enforcement only” ship has sailed, unfortunately.
I'd really hope that a main talking point of the roster lawsuit making it to supreme court is that it truly is a civilian firearm ban since these firearms have nothing to do with safety when millions of them are carried around amongst public by LEO that are exempt purely by the badge.

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Old 03-11-2019, 2:25 PM
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Bill Ruger is dead and has been for a while. Who cares.
I do.

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Also, how has S&W atoned? They're still putting locks in their revolver frames, right?
They publically admitted the error of their ways.
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Old 03-11-2019, 2:31 PM
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I'd really hope that a main talking point of the roster lawsuit making it to supreme court is that it truly is a civilian firearm ban since these firearms have nothing to do with safety when millions of them are carried around amongst public by LEO that are exempt purely by the badge.

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I agree completely. The state of Ca has repeatedly shown that all of its "Gun Laws" are a blatant subterfuge to disarm law abiding citizens.

Exempting LE makes it clear that these laws have nothing to do with public safety.

Using the lame logic reasoning that non existent "micro stamping" is for the convenience of LE to easier solve crimes is an outrage.

Another skewed logic, "We must punish all law abiding citizens" to help cops catch criminals.
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Old 03-11-2019, 4:45 PM
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Originally Posted by johnk518 View Post
I just heard and don't know if it's true that no gun manufacturer has joined in a lawsuit against CA for the roster requirements? Has this battle been just the consumer vs. government? If this is true I'm afraid we won't get any "roster relief" until a gun maker joins a lawsuit or starts one. I know I'm preaching to the choir but, imagine if cars met the legal requirements to be sold federally, but CA requires all fuel caps to be behind the license plate or can't be sold in CA (unless you own a dealership and decided to sell your personal vehicle). I'm fairly certain Ford, GM, Toyota, Audi, etc would sue CA.

So assuming it IS true, does anyone know of a manufacturer consider suing? We have got to be a large part of the consumer market enough to make them want our money.

The car companies didn’t fight CA, they just stardized a 50 state emissions vehicle and doing so without the slightest bit of resistance.

Now if they just boycotted selling in CA that would have changed things because they would have voted with their pocket book, but took a hit at the same time.
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Old 03-12-2019, 3:20 PM
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Even if they sued, and even if they won, it’s a many years proposition. It’d cost tons of money and then something else would pop up within a short time anyways. And I doubt it’s worth the hassle. At best you’d get a killing of the micro stamping. But the other stuff is already being done. Glock won’t add it so we’ll never see gen4 and up. The real victory would be being able to get off roster out of production pistols. And manufacturers aren’t gonna hep with that.

Remember, kalifornia gets away with it because the courts have been tolerant of regulating intra-state trade. Think occupational licensing for example. The fact is off-roster pistols are not illegal. This is the state’s catch. They can be brought in if you move in. They can be sold private party. There is no “ban” on those pistols. Not legally.

Yes, the intent of the law is a back door handgun ban. And yes, courts have looked at intent, and they’ve looked at impact. Yes, disparate impact was used in discrimination cases. But the law is not targeted at “protected groups”. And no, firearms owner isn’t a group. Not for civil rights purposes.

It’s also why we’ll never win on waiting periods and background checks and registration. On new. Although we could win on waits for used but like the manufacturers are going to help with that. Everything is affecting the sale of pistols. It’s commercial regulation. The state wins.

Best route to take would be interstate 10 east. Or 15. Or 80.
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Old 03-12-2019, 4:07 PM
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Originally Posted by SailorDan View Post
I’d like to see gun manufacturers refuse to sell firearms to state organizations that prohibit the same firearms for residents. You want a handgun roster? Fine, we will only allow LEO organizations to buy the same handguns/rifles that the residents of your state are allowed to purchase.

Even better.....Deny ALL firearm sales to any law enforcement agency in the entire state of California.
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Old 03-12-2019, 5:20 PM
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Originally Posted by SailorDan View Post
I’d like to see gun manufacturers refuse to sell firearms to state organizations that prohibit the same firearms for residents. You want a handgun roster? Fine, we will only allow LEO organizations to buy the same handguns/rifles that the residents of your state are allowed to purchase.
Yes let's approve the actions from the leaders of this state to extend to LE. That way when they see that the citizens approve of such nonsense they will come up with new bills that will make the roster like a pot of gold.

Remember, we don't want to be friends with LE, we want to be their enemies.
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Old 03-13-2019, 7:01 AM
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Yes let's approve the actions from the leaders of this state to extend to LE. That way when they see that the citizens approve of such nonsense they will come up with new bills that will make the roster like a pot of gold.

Remember, we don't want to be friends with LE, we want to be their enemies.
......................
Meno, I think you're missing the point.
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Old 03-13-2019, 8:01 AM
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......................
Meno, I think you're missing the point.
The roster was put in place by our state leaders. Showing support to restrict LE with the roster the same as we are is supporting the law. Is that the message we want to send? Gun Manufactures aren't in the game. They only care about the mighty dollar. They won't mess with their bottom line.
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Old 03-13-2019, 10:49 AM
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The roster was put in place by our state leaders. Showing support to restrict LE with the roster the same as we are is supporting the law. Is that the message we want to send? Gun Manufactures aren't in the game. They only care about the mighty dollar. They won't mess with their bottom line.
The only reason that the LEO unions got on board was that they gave them a roster exemption carve out. I say let them suffer along with us. Let Newsom hear hes guarded by ancient 30 year old technology instead of his governors in modern states.

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Old 03-13-2019, 12:07 PM
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The only reason that the LEO unions got on board was that they gave them a roster exemption carve out. I say let them suffer along with us. Let Newsom hear hes guarded by ancient 30 year old technology instead of his governors in modern states.

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Since Newscum and his leftist supported agenda is to make America just like the UK is, for its progressive gun laws.

Watch any and all LE Union support vanish. When they demand that cops here, also be armed just like the UK Bobbies.

Can you picture cops patrolling Oakland, South LA, Compton and all other Ca high crime areas.

Armed with a Yellow Vest, a Stick, and a Whistle.

After all, they can always call 911 just like us peons if they need help.
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Old 03-13-2019, 12:13 PM
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I think all of you guys on this forum need to understand that Gun Control is needed. Not necessarily by taking away the guns but making it very difficult to purchase. Too many guns landing in the hands of idiots.

I don't agree with it all but background checks are very necessary throughout all of the US.
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Old 03-13-2019, 12:26 PM
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I think all of you guys on this forum need to understand that Gun Control is needed. Not necessarily by taking away the guns but making it very difficult to purchase. Too many guns landing in the hands of idiots.

I don't agree with it all but background checks are very necessary throughout all of the US.

Without relying on the already disproven leftist fallacy that BGC prevent idiots, or criminals, from getting their hands on guns.

Please enlighten us with your reasoning for your opinion.

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Old 03-13-2019, 1:11 PM
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I think all of you guys on this forum need to understand that Gun Control is needed. Not necessarily by taking away the guns but making it very difficult to purchase. Too many guns landing in the hands of idiots.

I don't agree with it all but background checks are very necessary throughout all of the US.
Tell us how background checks stopped the last dozen or so mass shootings.

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Old 03-13-2019, 1:15 PM
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Originally Posted by AN40 View Post
I think all of you guys on this forum need to understand that Gun Control is needed. Not necessarily by taking away the guns but making it very difficult to purchase. Too many guns landing in the hands of idiots.

I don't agree with it all but background checks are very necessary throughout all of the US.
Well, the point is the State doesn't have the power to decide who's an idiot and who isn't.
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Old 03-13-2019, 1:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Dirk Tungsten View Post
Bill Ruger is dead and has been for a while. Who cares. Ruger as a company is not the same entity it was back then. They're publicly traded now, FFS. and have been building and selling AR-style rifles for quite some time now, and I'm pretty sure they come with 30-round mags (in free states). Most of Ruger's pistols are designed for, and include 10+ round mags. If that's not a turnaround, I'm not sure anything will be good enough for some people.

Also, how has S&W atoned? They're still putting locks in their revolver frames, right?
^^^^THIS^^^^^

People get all twisted up to hate Bill Ruger and Ruger guns.....
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Old 03-13-2019, 2:33 PM
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The only reason that the LEO unions got on board was that they gave them a roster exemption carve out. I say let them suffer along with us. Let Newsom hear hes guarded by ancient 30 year old technology instead of his governors in modern states.

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Yes I understand that. However it still shows we support the stupid roster throwing mud back at LE however you look at it.
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Old 03-13-2019, 4:32 PM
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Lol at the car comparison, you don't remember 49 state versions that didn't meet the CA emissions requirements?
too many people are too young today to even know that. I remember seeing California and Federal cars and trucks.
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Old 03-13-2019, 5:03 PM
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Originally Posted by AN40 View Post
I think all of you guys on this forum need to understand that Gun Control is needed. Not necessarily by taking away the guns but making it very difficult to purchase. Too many guns landing in the hands of idiots.

I don't agree with it all but background checks are very necessary throughout all of the US.
Based on this thinking, it is my fervent hope that you own no firearms.
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Old 03-13-2019, 8:55 PM
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Originally Posted by chris View Post
too many people are too young today to even know that. I remember seeing California and Federal cars and trucks.
Still some out there being made.
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  #35  
Old 03-13-2019, 9:00 PM
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God Bless America God Bless America is offline
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Originally Posted by mjmagee67 View Post
^^^^THIS^^^^^

People get all twisted up to hate Bill Ruger and Ruger guns.....
It's a matter of punishing bad behavior. I don't hate Ruger, or their guns, but I do hate what he did and I will discourage such behavior by boycotting it and spreading the word.

If what he did does not bother you, you are entitled to forgive and forget or whatever. I am entitled to boycott them until they admit his error.
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Old 03-14-2019, 7:01 AM
walmart_ar15 walmart_ar15 is offline
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Originally Posted by God Bless America View Post
It's a matter of punishing bad behavior. I don't hate Ruger, or their guns, but I do hate what he did and I will discourage such behavior by boycotting it and spreading the word.

If what he did does not bother you, you are entitled to forgive and forget or whatever. I am entitled to boycott them until they admit his error.
And we can do that freely in this country because of the Constitution and the Bill of Rights that came with it. G.B.A
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