Opinions: Build or Buy a 9mm AR versus the Ruger PC Carbine?

[Capybara]

Hi all:

I have narrowed down my search for the right PCC to either the Ruger PC Carbine or I will build or buy an assembled 9mm AR.

1. Ruger PC Carbine
Pros - Featureless so no lame grip fin, takes Glock mags, breaks down into a sweet backpack, can be put into my already too full gun safe by fitting onto a shelf, rather than the already too crowded long gun space. Quite a few fun accessories available so the rifle can be dressed and modded a decent amount.

Cons - Sight plane looks to be a bit short because optic needs to ride on barrel half if you want close to co-witness with irons. Some say that when disassembled and reassembled, you can lose zero, which would be annoying, if true? I doubt if I need a "backpacking long gun" but it could be nice to have for SHTF or once in a while camping situation?

2. Build or Buy 9mm AR
Pros - Price is about the same as the Ruger. Can also take Glock magazines like the Ruger. I gain a buffer tub, buffer and spring which might mitigate straight blowback effect on follow ups and shot strings. Very familiar manual of arms. I could probably still just separate the upper and lower for safe storage. Overall weight is probably similar. Longer sight plane and rifle shouldn't lose zero separating upper from lower? Any accessory and customization known to man is available for a 9mm AR, more than the Ruger probably.

Cons - GRIP FIN! I already have plenty of ARs, really get yet another one?

Purpose
I really want a PCC for fun plinking and to introduce relatives and newer shooters to their first rifle experience, probably after having them shoot on my single shot bolt .22, then move up to this gun afterwards. Not for HD, competition, hunting. How many of you own a Ruger PC and a 9mm AR? Pros and cons of each platform? Which do you like better and why? If I do decide on a 9mm AR, build or just buy something off the shelf?

Thanks!

[Mayor McRifle]

Originally Posted by Capybara

Not for HD, competition, hunting.

I would definitely prefer a Ruger PC Carbine for HD or hunting (if I wanted to hunt with a 9mm). It’s sturdy, reliable, and feels like a good rifle should. You can also use a Ruger PC Carbine for USPSA and Steel Challenge. Eventually, though, you would probably want an AR-type carbine for competition that’s lighter and easier to perform reloads with. But if you’re not planning on doing anything like that with it, get the Ruger PC Carbine.

[morrcarr67]

AR-9 featureless.

It's the only firearm I own that takes Block magazines.



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[Capybara]

Thanks for the input gents. Just read this below and it makes a lot of sense and definitely steers me back more toward the Ruger. At least the Ruger was built with 9mm in mind, yes they used some 10/22 parts and design but it was designed for 9mm.
Morrcarr, how reliable has your AR been? Do you have a lot of rounds through it? Any issues that relate to what the writer wrote in this post?

https://blowback9.wordpress.com/2022...flawed-design/

[Full Clip]

I have both — my AR9 is a Frankenstein home build.
The Ruger has great clean lines and is very reliable and accurate, but heavy and a bit of a pain to tear down for cleaning. Love the takedown aspect and that it takes Glock mags (I have a G17, so...).
The AR (with Hahn insert for Colt mags) eats everything and is accurate, and I use the same lower for multiple other calibers.
If I could only have one? The AR. If only for modularity and ergonomics.

[morrcarr67]

Originally Posted by Capybara

Thanks for the input gents. Just read this and it makes a lot of sense and definitely steers me back more toward the Ruger. At least the Ruger was built with 9mm in mind, yes they used some 10/22 parts and design but it was designed for 9mm.
Morrcarr, how reliable has your AR been? Do you have a lot of rounds through it? Any issues that relate to what the writer wrote in this post?

https://blowback9.wordpress.com/2022...flawed-design/

Unfortunately I built this one back in August and life has gotten in the way of me getting to take it to the range.

One of the reasons I went with the stock I did was the buffer issue brought up. The receiver extension/buffer tube has an extra piece to run short buffers, this is helpful for the 9mm.

The lower is made by NFA. I didn't go with the NFA upper. If I had, it would have fixed the last round hold open. They have a patent system for that.

You do need to adjust the extractor. Took me about 5 minutes. I really don't know why he's whining about having to tune your rifle.

I'm confident that it will work just fine once I get to the range.

I also have one that's a few years old. It too is featureless. That one is an S&W M&P15-9, no S&W never made one. The very first OLL I bought was this S&W. It has seen a couple of different configurations, it has found its place as a 9mm.

I didn't go the route of using an adapter. I use EndoMags. Yes they use a plastic extractor. If you read the instructions and follow them you shouldn't have any issues. If for some reason it breaks take it out of your magazine and send it back, they have a lifetime warranty.

I use a longer heavier buffer with no issues. The EndoMag has a LRHO built into it and works great. I have about 3K rounds through this one. And it has been great. This rifle is quite heavy, which is why I went with a light weight build for the second one.

BTW, this was the first lower I assembled. I bought a nice cheap no name LPK. This upper is a Delta Team Tactical daily special. I have absolutely no idea what parts are in the upper.



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[ar15barrels]

Originally Posted by Capybara

Thanks for the input gents. Just read this and it makes a lot of sense and definitely steers me back more toward the Ruger. At least the Ruger was built with 9mm in mind, yes they used some 10/22 parts and design but it was designed for 9mm.
Morrcarr, how reliable has your AR been? Do you have a lot of rounds through it? Any issues that relate to what the writer wrote in this post?

https://blowback9.wordpress.com/2022...flawed-design/

I didnt read the linked article yet but the Ruger PC Carbine is a better design for 9mm than an AR adapted to 9mm.
The PC9 bolt is MUCH heavier which is a big part of what makes it better that you can't replicate in the AR package because there simply is not room.

[FNGGlock]

The Ruger with a Magpul stock is pretty hard to beat. It breaks down into a pretty handy package. Simple to operate and surprisingly accurate. The POI shifts after takedown and reassembly is marginal, I have RDS on the receiver.

I still want a CMMG or similar with delayed blowback at some point, but waiting to see if the stupid CA law gets tossed to have a proper AR platform. The nice 9mm AR platforms seem to be a lot more than the PCC.

[Angrysnarf]

Ar9....

But in ca....ruger pcc

[Dvrjon]

Just to liven this up a bit...S&W new folding 9mm FPC. MSRP = $659. (Fin grip required).

[Dirtlaw]

Capybara,


Your indicated purpose was plinking and introducing others to the shooting world. I apologize in advance, but I'm going just a tad bit off topic. Because of the wide availability of the 9mm round a number of people consider a 9mm rifle as a useful SHTF weapon. Besides, if you reload it's nice to get as much as you can out of any particular round. So we have the 9mm Ruger and various 9mm ARs -- since semi-auto is currently considered king. But what about an "old-school" semi-auto ... the lever gun. My reason for writing this is that I just read an article about the Tombstone rifle by Patriot Ordinance Factory. As far as the "fun factor" is concerned, for me a lever gun is more fun than a semi-auto.

[angry]

having both i say go with the ar9 the recoil impulse of the ruger is horrible

[HKAllTheThings]

PSA?

[ARFrog]

I went with a dedicated 9mm lower (Angstadt Arms), with Glock magwell, and upper. It works great and the only thing I have had to do to it is replace a firing pin at about 3,000 rounds.

Forget the grip fin. Go with a Resurgant Arms grip.

You can build your 9mm to as close to your standard AR-15 weight as you want or with composites lighten it up. As you indicated, you will have the same manual of arms as a regular AR.

For me the Ruger PC never "felt" right. It was too clunky.

Good luck with your decision OP and bring lots of 9mm to the range, since these rifles are fun to shoot.



EDIT: you might check out the new Henry Homesteader 9mm carbine as an alternative to the Ruger PC.

[stormvet]

My first PCC was a Just right carbine, still have it. It’s very reliable and a good shooter, works with most all standard AR furniture. Cons somewhat heavy and like the Ruger aggressive recoil for a 9mm.

I had the Ruger for awhile, not a bad PCC but never really warmed up to it. I ended up giving it to my daughter.

Although I’m not a big PC carbine fan, if getting one today I’d go the AR route. The JRC9 works fine for my limited enthusiasm for them.

[joefrank64k]

AR9 with a Sparrow Dynamics grip. Forget the fin.

[Capybara]

Originally Posted by ar15barrels

I didnt read the linked article yet but the Ruger PC Carbine is a better design for 9mm than an AR adapted to 9mm.
The PC9 bolt is MUCH heavier which is a big part of what makes it better that you can't replicate in the AR package because there simply is not room.

That was my thought too. I have to say, it would bug my limited sense of mechanical aptitude to know that my 9mm AR is working in spite of the major design flaws in adapting it to a round that the design was never intended for. I'm like that with design, I have a deep appreciation for good design and mechanical engineering.

Granted, the PC Carbine is really an overgrown 10/22 mechanism but at least it was designed and engineered around a pistol length, straight walled cartridge, unlike the AR, which was designed around a much longer bottle necked rifle cartridge and is being hacked to work with such a short straight wall cartridge. Hacks can work but since this gun would be a want, not a functional need for me, probably better to get something that I would feel more at ease about the design.

[Capybara]

Originally Posted by joefrank64k

AR9 with a Sparrow Dynamics grip. Forget the fin.

I have the Resurgent Arms version on two of my builds, very similar from what I can see and yes, much better than a grip fin that I have on a few other builds.

[Capybara]

Originally Posted by Dvrjon

Just to liven this up a bit...S&W new folding 9mm FPC. MSRP = $659. (Fin grip required).

I've been checking this out too, I like Smith & Wesson and own the M&P 12 Bullpump. I generally like the Rugers ability to take my Glock magazines a bit more but the Smith would be in the running for me as well
if I can ever find one at a dealer to hold to my shoulder. I know Wilde Built and I am sure Riflegear will have some since Smith isn't, at least at this time, shipping Commie State modified ones with a fin grip and ten rounders.
I am veering toward the Ruger though because no grip fin required too. I have a lot of rifles with grip fins and I shoot them okay but the grip fins are annoying as hell when trying to run drills, sling use, etc.

[Capybara]

Originally Posted by Dirtlaw

Capybara,


Your indicated purpose was plinking and introducing others to the shooting world. I apologize in advance, but I'm going just a tad bit off topic. Because of the wide availability of the 9mm round a number of people consider a 9mm rifle as a useful SHTF weapon. Besides, if you reload it's nice to get as much as you can out of any particular round. So we have the 9mm Ruger and various 9mm ARs -- since semi-auto is currently considered king. But what about an "old-school" semi-auto ... the lever gun. My reason for writing this is that I just read an article about the Tombstone rifle by Patriot Ordinance Factory. As far as the "fun factor" is concerned, for me a lever gun is more fun than a semi-auto.

This gun is interesting but considerably more money than an AR 9 or the Ruger PC and would shoot slower than a semi-auto, although with ammo prices still reasonably high, perhaps that's a net positive?

[Dirtlaw]

Originally Posted by Capybara

This gun is interesting but considerably more money than an AR 9 or the Ruger PC and would shoot slower than a semi-auto, although with ammo prices still reasonably high, perhaps that's a net positive?

My end analysis (as an old guy) is this. A modernized weapon styled in the fashion of something that is old school. And because it is not the dreaded semi-auto it may continue to be legal beyond anything else. My goal is to maintain the ability for maximum defense as long as I can. I am also bound to obey the law absent certain circumstances. This weapon appears to be useful in that regard.

[bohoki]

i made an ar-9 years ago i have the strike fin grip if you dont mind a weird grip and stock arrangement on a gun not specifically designed to be used that way sure


the pc 9 is ready to go

[kingransom]

This is just my opinion, but I own both platforms and I could have just one it would definitely be the PCC 9 Ruger.

As far as losing zero, that is never been an issue for me and I think the only reason people run into that problem is their optic is not mounted properly or when they reassemble the rifle they don't tighten the adjustment nut on the bottom enough and there's a wobble between the forend and the rear end. If you shoot ARS a lot the only real advantage to owning an ar9 platform might be familiarity with the control buttons, but aside from that everything else is for the most part equal. When the original PCC 9 came out the big disadvantage was that the four end didn't have any m lock or key mod availability for mounting accessories. That's no longer an issue so it should not be a deciding factor between the two. An ar9 platform however does not have to have the fin grip on it, you can have all the evil features, put something like a hellfighter kit on it, and even though it's a bit of a pain in the *** to have to actually undo the rear takedown pin and slide it out, you can still separate the upper in the lower if you wanted to put it in a smaller bug out bag.

One HUGE ADVANTAGE POINT OF THE RUGER OVER THE AR9 IS FACTORY SUPPORT. If you buy a complete at platform rifle from a manufacturer then it's not much of an issue, but nowadays most of us tend to build our own AR platforms. So if you run into any issues you're going to pay for gunsmithing charges unless you have the ability to fix problems on your own. Ruger has been utterly amazing over the years with their customer support so if you ever did have a problem it would be taken care of. Just food for thought

[MajorSideburns]

I don't own an AR 9mm and have never shot one so I can't give you a comparison but I can tell you the Ruger PC carbine is very well made and a joy to shoot. I have not noticed any failure to return to zero after breaking it down and reassembling but I have not shot it at long range or used an optic more precise than a red dot. It does have more recoil than you would expect a 9mm to have but it's not bad at all. It's a very gentle push, amateur shooters might have a hard time keeping it on target during rapid fire but nobody is going to have a sore shoulder from it. I think you can actually adjust the weight of the bolt too though I have not done that. It is surprisingly accurate in my opinion, giving cloverleaf groups at 25 yards with bulk 9mm range ammo. The trigger is very good, short and light. Much lighter than a Glock so it has to be under 5 pounds. The only con I can think of is that it gets quite dirty but that is due to the blowback design. I was curious how that would affect reliability and went over 1,000 rds without cleaning and did not have a single hiccup. One issue I have read online that people have is while using Glock magazines they tend to wear out the plastic notch of the magazine against the metal magazine catch of the PCC. This causes a loose fit and slop which leads to malfunctions. I use Glock magazines in mine and have not seen this happen yet but I have been delicate with mine. You can mitigate the problem by not over inserting the magazine or rocking it back and forth with Superman force.

[Capybara]

Originally Posted by kingransom

This is just my opinion, but I own both platforms and I could have just one it would definitely be the PCC 9 Ruger.

As far as losing zero, that is never been an issue for me and I think the only reason people run into that problem is their optic is not mounted properly or when they reassemble the rifle they don't tighten the adjustment nut on the bottom enough and there's a wobble between the forend and the rear end. If you shoot ARS a lot the only real advantage to owning an ar9 platform might be familiarity with the control buttons, but aside from that everything else is for the most part equal. When the original PCC 9 came out the big disadvantage was that the four end didn't have any m lock or key mod availability for mounting accessories. That's no longer an issue so it should not be a deciding factor between the two. An ar9 platform however does not have to have the fin grip on it, you can have all the evil features, put something like a hellfighter kit on it, and even though it's a bit of a pain in the *** to have to actually undo the rear takedown pin and slide it out, you can still separate the upper in the lower if you wanted to put it in a smaller bug out bag.

One HUGE ADVANTAGE POINT OF THE RUGER OVER THE AR9 IS FACTORY SUPPORT. If you buy a complete at platform rifle from a manufacturer then it's not much of an issue, but nowadays most of us tend to build our own AR platforms. So if you run into any issues you're going to pay for gunsmithing charges unless you have the ability to fix problems on your own. Ruger has been utterly amazing over the years with their customer support so if you ever did have a problem it would be taken care of. Just food for thought

Good input, thanks.

As far as gunsmithing, I am far from a gunsmith but in the past year have assembled half a dozen ARs, installed new sling swivels and Tec Sights on my 10/22, installed new firing pin, extractor and rollers for one of my CZ52s, diagnosed and repaired a broken safety claw mechanism on my Bulgarian Makarov and in the past, I've built two AKs from scratch. I have not yet built an AR upper or assembled a gas block and I had coaching populating the barrels on my AK builds. I always try to solve my own gun challenges and occasionally will still take a gun to a gunsmith for help, but generally guns are pretty simple mechanical devices and we have this wonderful tool, the Internet that you can use for research and for learning how certain guns function and can be repaired. For me, having to go to the gunsmith means I failed to have the patience and diagnostic ability to fix an issue.

That said, with this new purchase, I am leaning toward the Ruger, largely because I have a maglocked AR pistol (not a fan) and lots of featureless rifles (not a fan either, although more of a fan of this than maglocked) and the idea of being able to shoot the Ruger with no grip fin and utilizing my Glock mags is appealing. The AR 9 is appealing too, but the real sticking point for me is having make it featureless with a Sparrow, Resurgent Arms grip, etc. They still suck although they are better than a grip fin, but not by much.

And yes, Ruger service, I have heard, is excellent. It's impressive too that for all of the Rugers I've owned over the years, I have NEVER needed their service either. I just found out that a range near me has a PC Carbine for rent too so I can go try one out.

[golfish]

Using the Glock mags is a big plus in my book but then that AR model that Morrcarr67 posted in post #3 is a thing of beauty...

Brother, have you considered the new Henry?

https://www.henryusa.com/rifles/homesteader-9mm/

[morrcarr67]

Originally Posted by golfish

Using the Glock mags is a big plus in my book but then that AR model that Morrcarr67 posted in post #3 is a thing of beauty...

Brother, have you considered the new Henry?

https://www.henryusa.com/rifles/homesteader-9mm/

Thank you sir.

And it does use Block magazines so it also has that going for it.

[plumbum]

I got an email from Sportsman Warehouse that said they will preorder the Homesteader for delivery in late April - I think the one with Glock mag insert was $779.
I’m still sitting on an AR/Glock mag lower, but I too still lean on the idea of the PC carbine. Had an original PC9 and also a Hi-Point; I really like PCC’s and still have a place for one.

[hitdank]

There are 3 major magazines for the ar9 and perhaps you will eventually collect all 3 lowers, that is where the cheap fun is.

[sigstroker]

If I was in kali I'd definitely choose the Ruger because it's naturally featureless. I had one for awhile but I never shot it. I got it before the 9mm AR thing became "solved".

My AR 9mm runs great, and wasn't hard to put together. That article OP posted must be at least 5 years old, because all those problems have been solved. I just bought a PSA 9mm lower relatively cheap, an assembled Foxtrot Mike upper, and a 9mm-specific buffer. I don't remember the recoil being any different than a 5.56, but everyone says so. So I need to get it back out to the range sometime to try it. It ran fine from the first shot, and I ended up selling the Ruger.

[sigstroker]

Originally Posted by hitdank

There are 3 major magazines for the ar9 and perhaps you will eventually collect all 3 lowers, that is where the cheap fun is.

I can only think of two. I've got at least one Colt mag lower that I'll put together someday. My first 9mm AR was a Colt, in the 90's when it was the only 9mm AR. I liked the mags, because I also had an Uzi at the time.

[Q]

Everyone saying ruger because you?re in Cali just means you should get the Ar9.
The standard ar9 design is way more common.
I picked up some Christensen barrels for cheap. Other barrel I was looking at was the taccom with aluminum sleeve.

[Scooooter7]

Based on no scientific data or research whatsoever, the Ruger just did not feel comfortable to me. I only held it in the candy store though.

My wife's Banshee with Glock magazines is a joy to shoot, we have only had it to the range a few times and she keeps holding the magazine with her front hand which causes FTL's. Which I only realized after reading this thread.

I had zero issues firing through several of the Glock 33rd mags yesterday.

Recoil was much less than the DD .223 with silencer I rented.

It seems OP is leaning to the Ruger and is going to test shoot it. Please let us know how you like it.

I am thinking of getting a Springfield Saint Victor 16" -9MM that has the preferred to me Colt magazines. But another Banshee it will be if the brace rule gets corrected. Nothing like a his n hers right?

[FNGGlock]

After reading all the responses, I believe the best answer to be……………

Get BOTH!!

[Bullets&Whitewalls]

I built a couple 9mm ARs. I sold them both. They functioned well but I never shot them like I thought I would. I think if I tried again I’d probably buy the Ruger honestly.

[Capybara]

Originally Posted by FNGGlock

After reading all the responses, I believe the best answer to be?????

Get BOTH!!

That's the Calguns way! I may but I'm leaning toward starting with the Ruger.

[MajorSideburns]

Originally Posted by Capybara

That's the Calguns way! I may but I'm leaning toward starting with the Ruger.

You won't be disappointed. If you have doubts, find someone local to let you try it out at the range.

[Capybara]

I just found out a local range has one for rent so next time I go out, I am going to rent it and give it a shot.

[Mr. Blue]

You could go with the Magpul Backpacker stock with the Ruger PC Carbine.

[Mr.Cip]

Buy the Ruger PCC.


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